Interversal Internet

[Braden Campbell]

I was thinking that the information would be stored locally within each system, but all the different caches are constantly updating each other. Information would never be more than a few days out of date.

I agree, with the understanding that differnt power blocs are going to have differing levels of information and/or access.

Just like you can't get the Google results in China that you would in the US, trying to find information in the Golgan Datasphere is going to be waaay harder than if you are in Consortium space.

[glitterboy2098]

reposting my response from the first version of this thread
the main problem is speed. our real world internet works because it is so small. the information, which moves at the speed of light, is only seconds away from anywhere.

in a space opera setting, the speed of transmission will limit you.

for example, in phase world, FTL communications move at 200 ly/h. meaning that in one hour, a message can cross 200 light years. instant communications can be obtained within a solar system, but communicating between solar systems requires messages to travel for minutes to hours (one way) even for the nearby stars. communicating across the galaxy will take years.

think about it like this. a solar system would have a network as quick as our internet.
but sending messages to other stars is like sending messages to Mars or jupiter in our world. it takes several minutes for the signals to reach the location. the delay between sending off a request and getting the information back would be 2x the time it takes the signal to get their (there and back), plus any time needed to process.

trying to surf the internet of these worlds would be like surfing our internet on a 1k dialup modem. it would take minutes to load each page, if not longer.

more likely, each solar system has a seperate 'net, and they are not connected.

there are canon attempts to make a galaxy spanning instant comm net. but none work well. they either rely on obscure technologies (ansibles, for example), or on rare materilas (psi-crystals found in the ruins of a dead race, for example)

[taalismn]

I had an Interdimensional Courier Service that also maintained an advanced communications network using virtual singularities to 'wormhole-port' messages and data, but that was strictly their in-house communications system for dispatching couriers....

[Rallan]

there are canon attempts to make a galaxy spanning instant comm net. but none work well. they either rely on obscure technologies (ansibles, for example), or on rare materilas (psi-crystals found in the ruins of a dead race, for example)

Wait, one of the later Phase World books has ansibles? Y'know, there's absolutely no sound reason why these wouldn't be implemented on a truly wide and massive scale if they exist in the setting. Only a seriously bad case of author silliness could explain why they're not universal, and even that wouldn't justify it

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm probablly going to be the odd one out but i'm firmly aginst any kind of intergalatic internet. For one, the array of transeivers would be impossible to maintain. for another, they get damaged by astroids and such too easially. For a third: Even going by the most advanced FTL communications it'd still take days and days to connect to the server.


I think rapid communications would take a lot out of phase world's charm.

[Greyaxe]

I'm probablly going to be the odd one out but i'm firmly aginst any kind of intergalatic internet. For one, the array of transeivers would be impossible to maintain. for another, they get damaged by astroids and such too easially. For a third: Even going by the most advanced FTL communications it'd still take days and days to connect to the server.


I think rapid communications would take a lot out of phase world's charm.

I agree there is nothing like being all alone in space when aliens pop out of your crewmembers. Nothing spoils the surprise/suspence like taking a pic with yor portable web enabled phone and searching a galactic database in seconds to find out this little beasty is found on planet x in system y and can be killed bu doing the following simple things. Big distance in big space makes for greater adventures.

[taalismn]

Yep...Courier ships are so much more fun to intercept and blunder than hacking an intergalactic internet...

[Rallan]

I'm probablly going to be the odd one out but i'm firmly aginst any kind of intergalatic internet. For one, the array of transeivers would be impossible to maintain. for another, they get damaged by astroids and such too easially. For a third: Even going by the most advanced FTL communications it'd still take days and days to connect to the server.


I think rapid communications would take a lot out of phase world's charm.

What asteroids and such? The odds of a satellite getting hit by a random chunk of stuff big enough to put it out of action are inconceivably slim, especially if it's out in interstellar space rather than in orbit around a star. Impacts with micrometeors and other spacejunk are about as likely to have a serious impact on a galaxy-wide communication net as lightning strikes have on mailmen: you might lose the occasional one every few years to a one in a million event, but it'll never impact on the system as a whole.

Seriously, there's oodles of ways to explain away the difficulty of interstellar communication in a sci-fi setting. Let's at least come up with explanations that work.

[glitterboy2098]

there are canon attempts to make a galaxy spanning instant comm net. but none work well. they either rely on obscure technologies (ansibles, for example), or on rare materilas (psi-crystals found in the ruins of a dead race, for example)

Wait, one of the later Phase World books has ansibles? Y'know, there's absolutely no sound reason why these wouldn't be implemented on a truly wide and massive scale if they exist in the setting. Only a seriously bad case of author silliness could explain why they're not universal, and even that wouldn't justify it

actually, i don't think ansibles were mentioned specifically, but that is the kind of high-tech that would make a galaxy wide internet pluasable. the difficult part of course would be making the ansibles, and devising a way to send info along a network using them. (i figure have 2-3 million ansible atoms atoms per tranceiver, each atom synched up with a different tranceiver. that way you only have to hook up one or two tranceivers to each systems networks. data transfer takes place in binary with different spins assigned either 1 or 0. the rate of transfer would be fast, but you'd have along waiting list to access the tranceiver, meaning connecting ot a specific network takes awhile. the best use would be military comms and banking institutions.)

[Rallan]

if the networks are mainly maintained by the local governments, the cost would be minimal. The only trouble comes when you need to finance relays, which by today's standards, are usually owned by several companies in the private sectors.

Governments only control the regulations.

Phase World is a setting with very old governments. The TGE and CCW have had all the perks of FTL civilization for hundreds (thousands? I'm not sure) of years. This means that they've not only had an awful long time to establish their interstellar communications networks all over the place, they've also had a lot of time to standardise them and smooth out any compatibility problems between different manufacturers.

And as an added bonus, it also means time to consolidate. Governments and major corporations would've long since seen the importance of having an easy to use network that covers vast areas of space, and some of those corporations (Naruni springs instantly to mind) would've seen the financial benefits of trying to establish their own service over as wide an area as possible.

So whatever they've got, whether it's instantaneous communication or just something that can broadcast a heckuva lot faster than FTL ships can travel, it's probably not going to be all that complicated for anyone with access to send a message to pretty much any destination that's in the same 'nation'.

[Aramanthus]

I see the Intragalactic internet has that same double posting problem that earths does!

[glitterboy2098]

well... I agree with what you said. All I'm saying is, networks are usually laid down and set up by businesses, not usually the governments. The governments usually only regulate the quality of the operating companies and sometimes their contents.

actually the internet was invented and developed by the military in real life and later the companies that built the hardware started selling civilian versions, which created the early internet and finally snowballed into the WWW.

in phase world, you'd see the same. the military and goverment have the most reason ot create data-sharing networks. after their network is up, the cupter companies would start selling versions to the civilian market, which would gradually create a galaxy wide web.

[glitterboy2098]

actually the internet was invented and developed by the military in real life and later the companies that built the hardware started selling civilian versions, which created the early internet and finally snowballed into the WWW.

Hmm... I thought the network was invented by the military, while the true Internet was developed by academics for several universities to share data.....

so i simplified.

in phase world, you'd see the same. the military and goverment have the most reason ot create data-sharing networks. after their network is up, the cupter companies would start selling versions to the civilian market, which would gradually create a galaxy wide web.

Okay... I thought military is "owned" by the government? anyway, military usually create intra-system networks (depending on the size of the galactic empire), while commercial companies makes more use of interstellar networks.

the military, and the goverment bueracracy would both have major intrest in creating a network that spans the entire star nation. goverments and militaries both live and die on the rapid and effective transfer of information.

multi-planet corporations would also have reason to develop a multiplanet network, particularly if their facilities and offices are present on multiple worlds.

but your average civilian isn't going to need a galactic network. as long as a local one exists, their needs are normally served.

[Qev]

I imagine an civilization that could build an interstellar internet probably would, since despite having courier spacecraft, beaming the data would likely still be cheaper and faster, despite the maintenance costs of the network infrastructure.

An internetted galaxy would still have lots of wilderness, though. Your network nodes wouldn't be broadcasting omnidirectionally, they'd be beaming their connections directly to other nodes (assuming it's not an ansible-type point-to-point connection). So unless your ship is 'riding the beam', you're not going to have any network connection. I suppose this would imply that commercial spacecraft would tend to follow the beam paths, sort of turning them both into network trunks and trade-route highways.

Also it adds an interesting new twist on interstellar conflict, where either side may attack the other's network nodes, or attempt to corrupt them to launch infowar attacks.

Another sci-fi novel that deals with this sort of thing (while taking several amusing digs at USENET) is Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep.

[Aramanthus]

It would definately enhance life for those living in a galaxy where information could cross the galaxy in a few seconds.

[Aramanthus]

That is a cool idea! Thank you for sharing the link!

[Aramanthus]

Very cool! Let's hope it becomes practical for us! It has a lot of promise!

[Qev]

Very cool! Let's hope it becomes practical for us! It has a lot of promise!

Sadly, quantum entanglement isn't useful for FTL communication in real life. But that doesn't stop us from dreaming in sci-fi.

[Aramanthus]

Oh well, we can dream! There's got to be something way out on the horizon that might get us the bare bones necessary to do that in the future. Maybe we have seen this kernal, and without realizing it will be discovered in the distant future.