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Here is your place to ask questions and leave constructive comments and criticism about Palladiums latest release.

All in all this is a really good book however one thing that Palladium Books continues to do is really starting to bug me.

In most of there products they dictate verbatim how an R.C.C or O.C.C is supposed to be run or give restrictions on what Races can become that O.C.C or at what time in there life or other silly things and in a few products throw those restrictions out the window.

Case in point the Elemental Fusionist In the ultimate edition they State that Only Humans can be the Fusionist. However In D-Bee's of North America they have several Races that can be this class. That is fine I prefer that more then just humans be able to use the O.C.C. Although seeing as that was going to be the case why not just say Only Humans and Races that have it specified in there description can be an Elemental fusionist, or just leave it alone and let the G.M's decide for themselves.

Another similar but not quite the same issue is exemplified by the Cyber Horsemen of Ixion. The statement under bionics is that "Only one third(of females) get the full lower body conversion before the age of 60 and none do so before the age of 40" Well I'm sorry there are several valid reasons for a younger Female to have a bionic conversion done. The description done under Life span is a bit better but my point remains.

She could have had an accident and required it. The female could be incapable of having children (the reason given why they avoid it as a full conversion will remove the ability to carry a child) and undergone the conversion sooner. The woman could also not want to have children (due to the death of a spouse or some other event) and undergo the conversion to avoid having to (or even to seek revenge). Heck they could even have 3 children raise them to the age of 14 and still be under the 40 year old mark set in the book.

The point is Let us decide weather or not that happens don't tell us that it never happens unless it actually can never happen for absolutely no reason. (like Races with no affinity for magic being unable to take magic O.C.C's or the Malvoren despite having a high P.P.E and being psychic being unable to power Technowizardry items) Instead tell us that it is rare for this to happen or it is unheard of.

Adding arbitrary restrictions just makes the game a bit more difficult to run because then we have to pull out the G.M. pencil and erase the parts of an otherwise excellent book that make little sense. While we do this the writers of a new book will break that same restriction we are overriding for some reason in the next book or two.

Otherwise a very good book but palladium needs to be more careful where and when they use the words 'never' and 'only'.

I dont mind the "only" and/or "never" parts...what i mind is when one book says one thing, then another book contradicts the first book. Dont have D-bees yet, but I agree. Its a problem with many books in the past. I was hoping with all these revisions Rifts is going through that things would be cleared up, not added to the list of inconsistancies.

For example, how much MDC does the Triax Forger bot have? SB1 and GMG says 450 MDC, Triax says 350 MDC, SB1 revised says 500 MDC! Which is it?

Metathiax wrote:[H]owever one thing that Palladium Books continues to do is really starting to bug me...

I still don't have the book (hopefully this week), but that's something that really bugged me years ago, right up until I threw most of those restrictions out the window. The thing that drew me to Rifts was its all-encompassing nature, and while some restrictions and logical and just make for a better game, others seem arbitrary and unrealistic. I just can't imagine that, if you have a bajillion types of creatures roaming around and you either just thirst to pass on your knowledge or simply want make a buck or two by letting someone in on your secrets, that in that particular world you're going to be so hung up on excluding other races. I can't recall any examples right now, but my group had several characters that bent the restriction rules, kind of like my wife "bent" my pager when she threw it against the slate mantle. Twice.

Beacause no one but us GM's is supposed to know that the Shemarians aren't really superhot alien chicks.


I liked the Phlebus... it felt somehow very real to me...

Kagashi wrote:I dont mind the "only" and/or "never" parts...what i mind is when one book says one thing, then another book contradicts the first book. Dont have D-bees yet, but I agree. Its a problem with many books in the past. I was hoping with all these revisions Rifts is going through that things would be cleared up, not added to the list of inconsistancies.

For example, how much MDC does the Triax Forger bot have? SB1 and GMG says 450 MDC, Triax says 350 MDC, SB1 revised says 500 MDC! Which is it?

I agree that it is much more annoying when they contradict themselves (like with the fusionist) but as for the forager I just attributed the increases in MDC with later production runs with improved armor plateing being used. But it would have been nice if they told us that.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:I liked the Phlebus... it felt somehow very real to me...

Where does that name come from? I know I've heard it somewhere before...

MrThoth wrote:

The Deific NMI wrote:Here is your place to ask questions and leave constructive comments and criticism about Palladiums latest release.

I've had the chance to flip through my copy, but not read in depth. The new races I saw looked cool and I love the new artwork (especially the Grackletooth). Hopefully I'll get a chance to read through it this week and I can go into a little more detail.

*sigh* So much reading, so little time...

You know, Pete, if a copy somehow found its way down to me, I'd be able to give you a great review...

MrThoth wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

MrThoth wrote:

The Deific NMI wrote:Here is your place to ask questions and leave constructive comments and criticism about Palladiums latest release.

I've had the chance to flip through my copy, but not read in depth. The new races I saw looked cool and I love the new artwork (especially the Grackletooth). Hopefully I'll get a chance to read through it this week and I can go into a little more detail.

*sigh* So much reading, so little time...

You know, Pete, if a copy somehow found its way down to me, I'd be able to give you a great review...

You're a week too late, dude. I sold my share in the store 1 week and 1 day ago. I'm a civilian now.

Wondered about that.

No questions/comments?

Jason Richards wrote::-?

No questions/comments?

No copy.

Just got it about an hour ago. Based on some other comments, the first thing I read was the Butter Troll. Absolute perfection! I just kept chuckling while I thought about how many times I've run into those creatures over the years. Used to be employed by one, even. Classic, classic, classic!

Mark Hall wrote:

Jason Richards wrote::-?

No questions/comments?

No copy.

Me either, though if UPS is telling the truth I SHOULD have my copy by tomorrow. <crosses fingers>


Daniel Stoker

The only complaint I have is the lack of SDC conversion on all the races.

I think that the conversions that are included are all pretty good. But I agree that we could have done more for all the races. Personally, I do a 1 to 1 conversion for them all if the conversion isn't there, making HP their P.E. score and the M.D.C. into M.D.C. I hope that helps.

:Sigh:

Here we go again, how much do the Spinne Force-fields cost? what do you have to do to get one?


If I have to come up with a list and you print it, I'm 2/100ths of a rifter contributer....

spinne forcefields are unique to them. Kill one and try to get one.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:Beacause no one but us GM's is supposed to know that the Shemarians aren't really superhot alien chicks.


I liked the Phlebus... it felt somehow very real to me...

But the first line of the text gives it away...

Just got it, and I wish there were both SDC and MDC stats for use in other games. Otherwise, for the most part, most things were updated to RUE rules, so thats cool.

look at my post like five up, Kagashi. I hope that helps.

I've been working on nur dwarves and the Mystic Kynzya OCC, (i did not spell any of that right) it looks fascinating.

Finally got the book! It's amazing, to say the least. I love the fact that many of the new DBs have both benefits and vulnerabilities. Here are a couple things I have to say about it:

- Someone, somewhere mentioned that Josh has some sort of furry obsession (perhaps it was one of the other co-authors?). I have to say...this seems to run true. With that being said, they're all still very interesting. With that being said, the Ecto-Men are pretty figgin' cool.

- Jason: If you're going to use technical terms in descriptions (specifically: Iktek Diggers), use it right. Digitigrade is essentially walking on the balls of your feet. The "backward knees" are the ankles. Even so, still great (we all have the little things that bug us; it doesn't help that I just finished 2 semesters of general biology).

- Butter Trolls: I have to say, I was a little worried after reading about it on the boards. I didn't know what to expect. I have to say, I love them. A very well done DB.

- Some other favorites of the new ones: Spinne, Slurmph, Fingertooth Carpetbaggers

- Award for most furry-eske DB goes to.....KS. This is all thanks to that picture of the Zenith Moon Warpers by an unknown artist (I can't quite read the signature). Sorry Josh...I'm sure you were hoping for the prize.

Shinitenshi wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:I've been working on nur dwarves and the Mystic Kynzya OCC, (i did not spell any of that right) it looks fascinating.

Are you talking about the Mystic Kuznya from Russia? I have one of those, they rock!

Yeah, but with the dwarves in DBoNA you can make steampunk pirate mystic kynzya!

The new Zenith Moon Warper art is by Ben Rodriguez, I believe. Don't get me started.

Oh God! I just ran a search for "ben rodriguez art"! I don't want my eyes anymore! I need a loofah that works on my brain!

But seriously, Josh is all about that stuff.

Greymalkyn wrote:ok... everybody relax...

As humans, we hopefully learn early on that there are exceptions to every rule. Maybe there are female centaurs that have special needs. Maybe so. The Palladium Staff already gives us a huge amount of elbow room when it comes to story and character creation. The rest comes from good old fashion player to GM arbitration. If a GM doesn't feel that he or she is comfortable with a canon rule, then by golly the player should accept that the story is indeed the GM's. On the same token, GM's have to realize that the player is in control of one of the greatest powers in the GM's story - the character. That character, be it hero or villain, strives to change the world through sheer willpower. To make a statement. To be remembered. TO HAVE FUN.

In the end folks, we all make choices every friggin day. The good game is a balance of detailed attention to canon and good old fashioned arbitration.

?????

Greymalkyn wrote:Myself, I had a laugh with my group the other night, when we debated the consequences of a Malvoren getting his hands on MOM components. What do you guys think?

Well....while I don't think there is anything preventing this, I don't think anyone can predict what would happen (aka - GM Fun Time). The MOM implants are for humans (and some other species via experimentation). It could do nothing. It could give massive bonuses. It could kill the D-Bee. Who knows?

The Galactus Kid wrote:I think that the conversions that are included are all pretty good. But I agree that we could have done more for all the races. Personally, I do a 1 to 1 conversion for them all if the conversion isn't there, making HP their P.E. score and the M.D.C. into M.D.C. I hope that helps.

That helps if I want them to be MDC, but not SDC.

I just use the MDC rating as the SDC.

rat_bastard wrote:But seriously, Josh is all about that stuff.

3 out of 10 of my D-Bees have fur.

The other 7 do not.

So who is the furry? The guy with 3 hirsute D-Bees out of 10, or the guy with the name of a furry animal in his screename that is calling other people furries?



~ Josh

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:But seriously, Josh is all about that stuff.

3 out of 10 of my D-Bees have fur.

The other 7 do not.

So who is the furry? The guy with 3 hirsute D-Bees out of 10, or the guy with the name of a furry animal in his screename that is calling other people furries?



~ Josh

Methinks he doth protest too much.

Mark Hall wrote:

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:But seriously, Josh is all about that stuff.

3 out of 10 of my D-Bees have fur.

The other 7 do not.

So who is the furry? The guy with 3 hirsute D-Bees out of 10, or the guy with the name of a furry animal in his screename that is calling other people furries?



~ Josh

Methinks he doth protest too much.

I think one protests to much and the other is too eager to point fingers.

Nxla666 wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:But seriously, Josh is all about that stuff.

3 out of 10 of my D-Bees have fur.

The other 7 do not.

So who is the furry? The guy with 3 hirsute D-Bees out of 10, or the guy with the name of a furry animal in his screename that is calling other people furries?



~ Josh

Methinks he doth protest too much.

I think one protests to much and the other is too eager to point fingers.

My furry ratio in DBoNA is 0/0. Of my Rifter articles, I've written about tall, hairless, shape-changers, squat goblinkin, hair-less psi-vampires, hairless subterranean monotremes, and slaves. If anything, I'm the anti-furry.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nxla666 wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

rat_bastard wrote:But seriously, Josh is all about that stuff.

3 out of 10 of my D-Bees have fur.

The other 7 do not.

So who is the furry? The guy with 3 hirsute D-Bees out of 10, or the guy with the name of a furry animal in his screename that is calling other people furries?



~ Josh

Methinks he doth protest too much.

I think one protests to much and the other is too eager to point fingers.

My furry ratio in DBoNA is 0/0. Of my Rifter articles, I've written about tall, hairless, shape-changers, squat goblinkin, hair-less psi-vampires, hairless subterranean monotremes, and slaves. If anything, I'm the anti-furry.

So much to say......................

Must refrain from being banned.......


Bah, so you like 'em bald?

Nxla666 wrote: So much to say......................

Must refrain from being banned.......


Bah, so you like 'em bald?

Oi oi oi.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nxla666 wrote: So much to say......................

Must refrain from being banned.......


Bah, so you like 'em bald?

Oi oi oi.

Its the only response that was postable.

I know i do. If I was a super hero, y arch rival would have APS hair

Braden, GMPhD wrote:Beacause no one but us GM's is supposed to know that the Shemarians aren't really superhot alien chicks.


I liked the Phlebus... it felt somehow very real to me...

Small wonder...

So, actual questions?

Anyone?

~ Josh

- Jason: If you're going to use technical terms in descriptions (specifically: Iktek Diggers), use it right. Digitigrade is essentially walking on the balls of your feet. The "backward knees" are the ankles. Even so, still great (we all have the little things that bug us; it doesn't help that I just finished 2 semesters of general biology).

I swear I researched it and that's the name I came up with. Probably a disconnect between looking for a description of a horse's hind legs and the actual definition.

Meh. Semantics anyway... the description got across.

Got my signed copy last night!

Was only able to give a quick look-see, but it looks like a new staple to bring to Con's, to share the magic of Palladium!

(The Ecto-Man & Carpetbagger are instant fav's, just from the picture! )

Novastar wrote:Got my signed copy last night!

Glad it got to you. You never know with the ol' USPS.

remove the second 3D6x10. I believe that is how it is supposed to be read. Levi should chime in.

Don't have the book in front of me so I'll check when I get home.

Carl

As developers would you guys say that physical skill bonuses to S.D.C. would apply to the wings as well? Or that say the "Running" skill would apply to the wings flight speed?

I don't remember... does the race have special S.D.C. called out for the wings? In any case, I think bonus S.D.C. is for main body, only. I certainly wouldn't apply Running speed bonuses to flight speed, but I might allow for a Flying still akin to Running to be taken to the same effect, but with bonus to flying speed instead of the Spd attribute.

One last question. I understand that bonuses from physical skills do not apply to creatures that have "Supernatural" stats (strength and endurance typically) What about O.C.C. bonuses to stats like for say A Grackle Tooth Cyber Knight.

I would say that they don't, going strictly by the rules. If Body Building can't add to the character's strength who is supernaturally strong, then CK training wouldn't either.

Then again, if I were a GM in this situation I might allow it if the character went through a training routine like the dad did in The Incredibles, lifting trains and stuff for exercise. Maybe not the whole bonuses, but probably half.

Retired Juicer wrote:Page 216: under Hit Points. 1D6 +P.E. attribute number, +1D6 M.D. per level of experience, starting at level one.
Does this mean that Yeno are (very) minor M.D.C. beings?

On page 150. The Nuhr Dwarves have the same thing going on as well.

Page 145 the Noli Bushmen as well.

The "M.D." is a typo.

Page 36, Blucies (which I love by the way): Hit points: P.E. x 10 +2D6 per level. Thats a lot of Hit Points. Is this how it should be, or is this a typo?

(AFAIK) That's how it should be.

~ Josh

Jason Richards wrote:If Body Building can't add to the character's strength who is supernaturally strong.....

what? since when? is this official or an internet thing?

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

Jason Richards wrote:If Body Building can't add to the character's strength who is supernaturally strong.....

what? since when? is this official or an internet thing?

Now we get into the "where did I hear that" part of the discussion... I have no idea where that came from, but it feels like it's real.

Retired Juicer wrote:Ok here's a few more:

Page 216: under Hit Points. 1D6 +P.E. attribute number, +1D6 M.D. per level of experience, starting at level one.
Does this mean that Yeno are (very) minor M.D.C. beings?

On page 150. The Nuhr Dwarves have the same thing going on as well.

Page 145 the Noli Bushmen as well.

Typo like the man said.

Retired Juicer wrote:Page 143-144: N'mbyr. Bonuses during violent outbursts:
+10 to P.S. and P.S. goes from Augmented to the equivalent of a Supernatural P.S. of 1D4+21.

So which is it? +10 to P.S. and make it supernatural? Or becomes a supernatural P.S. of 22-25?

I would say make it a SN PS of 22-25. If you did a straight SN PS conversion based on the +10 then you're doing uber amounts of damage.

Retired Juicer wrote:Page 97-98: Prehensile tail adds one melee attack. And under bonuses there is an additional unsourced bonus melee attack. Do Grackle Tooth have a bonus melee attack and then an additional one from the tail? Or is it the unsourced bonus from the tail?

I think that's from the tail. The listing under natural abilities is an explanation of why they have an extra attack. at least that's my take.

Retired Juicer wrote:Page 36, Blucies (which I love by the way): Hit points: P.E. x 10 +2D6 per level. Thats a lot of Hit Points. Is this how it should be, or is this a typo?

No typo, just really tough S.D.C. critters.

Retired Juicer wrote:Page 32: Avianes. As developers would you guys say that physical skill bonuses to S.D.C. would apply to the wings as well? Or that say the "Running" skill would apply to the wings flight speed?

As a GM i don't have a problem with the S.D.C. added to the wings, but I would probably have the player apply 25% of any gained S.D.C. to the wings, not all of it. As for the running skill, I agree with what Jason said. Sounds like a good idea.

Retired Juicer wrote:One last question. I understand that bonuses from physical skills do not apply to creatures that have "Supernatural" stats (strength and endurance typically) What about O.C.C. bonuses to stats like for say A Grackle Tooth Cyber Knight.
I only ask in this thread because it pertains directly to the content of World Book 30, and it seems that one's questions can generally reach the ears/eyes of some or all of the contributing writers.

Hmm, I don't recall seeing that. Maybe its something I ignored I let my players add them if they have a SN character. Whats a few more M.D. or points to P.S. That just means I can put more of a beating on them

Great questions

Carl

I think the outcome of that question "do you add physical skill bonuses to supernatural creatures?" was left to GM discretion. My group does it and will continue to do it, others do not.

Reaper, as was mentioned before, I don't think that is the case. I'll try to get in touch with Levi and get the answer to this question.