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At a guess... somthing like this:

LINK

Personally, I like the Delta Flyer class.

You can always go to MadManMike's thread. He did his own rendition of it! It's an excellent version!

Nirenn wrote:Just wondering, what does a starfighter with beds and a common room look like? I just can't envision it. Does anyone have any pictures of a Proctor, or at least of a comparable vessel?

Just asking because it would make a fantastic party ship, souped up a little

The Proctor and the Runner are probably designed with
player characters in mind

As for souping up... Well, be carefull, how powerfull you
let a tinkered starship vs. military standard.

Adios
KLM

Cool site! Thanks Gadrin for the link!

And such a high tech piece of art work!

gadrin wrote:.... the only thing missing is a nice stereo and a bar

Well... In space, noone can hear you scream - because in
vacuum there is no sound. However, we did hear the Twin Ion
Engines scream, as the enemy starfighters attacked.

How is it?

Well, the ship-pilot interface should not dissmiss, that we,
humans (and probably most lifeforms too) have a secondary
"space-perception" sensory system, ie. audio. So, we can
guess a source's direction and range only by hearing, and do
it without drawing away resources from the visual part.

Therefore - spaceships more likely than not - will have a
really good quality sound system as audio interface.
Now, we only have to insert a CD player (or an audio
player software) to turn it into a crew recreation facility.

---
Still thinking about the bar... Well, coffee machine is a must,
without question.

Adios
KLM

According to the urban legend in 1991 heavy metal,
for example Slayer was played by allied EW craft.

Adios
KLM

Also, according to Tom Clancy, sonar operators prefer
the "softer" classical music (Mozart yes, Wagner nope).


But for my part, in an adrenaline fueled suicide sled
(read: starfighter) I would rather have a fast and
hard metal track ("Walk" from Pantera comes into
mind). Of course on a giant slice of cheese there
are place for a symphonic orchestra.

Adios
KLM

My version.

-Mike >8]

MADMANMIKE wrote:My version.

-Mike >8]

Nice job Mike. Can you put the cruise missiles onto the wings to get a feel for how it would look?

It's nice big heavy fighter. Read the description again Dm. It's crew have sleeping areas for long patrols!

Darkmax wrote:i don't remember the proctor being that big.....

It has space for crew, so they can work in shifts, plus a
100 ton cargo space (which converted into a missile
bay... or a PA hangar...)

Adios
KLM

Probably the fact, that it does not have turrets...

...that is why it is not classified as a frigate/corvette.

(thought DMB2 classifies it in parentheses as light frigate, as
I recall).

500 tons fully loaded.

Adios
KLM

It falls within heavy fighter as far as other games have done over the years. It's what I'm going to continue to call it.

What is more... I can envision much larger,
single (or at most six) seated attack ships,
classified as starfighters.

Altess personal starfighters, or Royal Kreeghor
personal craft might range into several thousand
tons, and still, essentially are starfighters.

Not to mention Dominator starfighters - which
easily dwarf frigates, just because the pilot's
size.

So, classification - while has something to do with
technical specifications - is basically decided by some
buerocrat.

And - of course - their contemporaries. Pre-WWI destroyers
were somewhere between 400 to 1500 tons.
Now we have corvettes which have more tonnage, than frigates,
frigates which easily range into cruiser tonnage, destroyers
nearing the 10 thousand ton "border", and cruisers (Kirov)
nearing 30 thousand tons, and so on.

Adios
KLM

..The problem is it was designed by CJ Carella who had no concept of balance or scale. All of the ships in Phase World are broken because of this.

..The scale of that ship makes it far too large to pass as a fighter; he just didn't understand the complexity of the meaning of the word. By his usuage the Millenium Falcon is a fighter, and arguably so would be the Prometheus from Stargate SG-1.

-Mike

I always envisioned the Proctor as looking a bit like a cross between a scaled down Horizont shuttle and a Manabe Terran Fighter from his manga 'Outlanders'....

MADMANMIKE wrote:..The problem is it was designed by CJ Carella who had no concept of balance or scale. All of the ships in Phase World are broken because of this.
(...)
-Mike

Dunno, I heard rumors that CJC submitted different stats,
what reached printing...

Also, I prefer when an anti-armor weapon has at least a
marginal chance to reach a one-shot-one-kill result against
armor.

Whatever... Anyone reported, that the Rain of Death dropship
of the TGE cannot accomodate a Khartoom Terek (by its dimensions)
"doomsday tank" - althought it regularly does, according to
the text...?

Adios
KLM

I always thought of the Proctor being very simliar in size to another systems heavy fighter called the "Fluttering Petal." Which is a 400 ton fighter. It is very nasty and very lethal.

I like it the way it is!

Then read the book.

As rumors stand, CJC submitted different stats (MDC-wise, mainly)
than we saw in print.

But rumors are just rumors.

Adios
KLM

KLM wrote:As rumors stand, CJC submitted different stats (MDC-wise, mainly)
than we saw in print.

But rumors are just rumors.

Adios
KLM

..You're confusing Phase World with Aliens Unlimited. Wayne wrote a logical ship building system with appropriately statted ships only to have much of if butchered in editing by Bill Coffin. Specifically the Barbarian, which was designed to be a class all it's own and a small adventure ship, not a heavy fighter.

-Mike

Aramanthus wrote:I always thought of the Proctor being very simliar in size to another systems heavy fighter called the "Fluttering Petal." Which is a 400 ton fighter. It is very nasty and very lethal.

ah.. a fellow 'Renegade Legion' Player

MADMANMIKE wrote:

KLM wrote:As rumors stand, CJC submitted different stats (MDC-wise, mainly)
than we saw in print.

But rumors are just rumors.

Adios
KLM

..You're confusing Phase World with Aliens Unlimited. Wayne wrote a logical ship building system with appropriately statted ships only to have much of if butchered in editing by Bill Coffin. Specifically the Barbarian, which was designed to be a class all it's own and a small adventure ship, not a heavy fighter.

-Mike

Nope, I am not confusing them. Just cannot (and do not will to)
confirm that influence.

Adios
KLM

I hate to say this Mike, but I refuse to use those rule Wayne wrote. They were seriously messed up. I have a lot of problems when a 5000 foot long ship weighs in at 5000 tons. I'll use that very limitedly only after I modify to fit my needs for my decent ships.


And yes DhAkael I am a Renegade Legion player too! Good to meet a fellow Renegade!

KLM wrote:

MADMANMIKE wrote:..The problem is it was designed by CJ Carella who had no concept of balance or scale. All of the ships in Phase World are broken because of this.
(...)
-Mike

Dunno, I heard rumors that CJC submitted different stats,
what reached printing...

Also, I prefer when an anti-armor weapon has at least a
marginal chance to reach a one-shot-one-kill result against
armor.

Whatever... Anyone reported, that the Rain of Death dropship
of the TGE cannot accomodate a Khartoom Terek (by its dimensions)
"doomsday tank" - althought it regularly does, according to
the text...?

Adios
KLM

Bolted to the outside, the tank crew com transmitters disabled so the dropship crew doesn't have to hear the groundpounders screaming about 'atmospheric turbulence' and 'hot ack-ack up our (posteriors)!' all the way in until they can blow the explosive bolts.

Aramanthus wrote:I hate to say this Mike, but I refuse to use those rule Wayne wrote. They were seriously messed up. I have a lot of problems when a 5000 foot long ship weighs in at 5000 tons. I'll use that very limitedly only after I modify to fit my needs for my decent ships.


And yes DhAkael I am a Renegade Legion player too! Good to meet a fellow Renegade!

..What part of "those aren't the rules that Wayne wrote" don't you guys understand?

Nope, I am not confusing them. Just cannot (and do not will to)
confirm that influence.

..So KLM, you're just going to lazily dismiss the fact because it doesn't support your whining?

-Mike

Not lazyness... Well, not just lazyness.

I read from several sources that Kev usually
revamps stats submitted, one specific example
was the often debated ATL rifle from South
America.

As I read, CJC originally gave even higher damage
rating, so it had been an anti tank weapon, which
can take out something in one shot. Mind you,
in that time your average infantry energy rifle
could do "full clip" burst for 20x damage, so
the C-12 rifle could do like 8d6*10 MD.

But then the "Holy Boom Gun" rule kicked in,
so that nothing can surpass in damage the
holy, shining 2 ton PA, not even 70 ton MBT's
(not to mention the NGR's really big robots).

But since even the stats of the RMB are screwed
up (my favourite comparison is the UAR-1 vs the
SAMAS) it is kinda pointless.

----------------------------------------------
Another topic was that the Proctor - being 500
tons - cannot be a heavy fighter. Mike, before
you call me lazy or whining, wluld you please
reflect to those arguments?

Adios
KLM

I do understand those rules Mike. I've read them, they are very messed up. A ship 5000 foot long should not weigh 5000 tons, it should weigh upwards of of at least 2.5 millions tons if not a lot more. I will not use them. I will use certain aspects of those rules. But I have my own system I use. Specifically I'll look at my Jane's Guides for ideas over that twaddle. I sent this huge email to them once complaining about how bad those rules are. "They said they lost it"


I'd have to dig out the book and reread those rules to tell you all of those flaws. There were too many to list. I know my email to them was well over a page long with my personal observations and complaints. Of course I did tell them how to correct those problems.

MADMANMIKE wrote:..What part of "those aren't the rules that Wayne wrote" don't you guys understand?

..I didn't say anything about understanding the rules Aramanthus, read what I posted again, again.

Nope, I am not confusing them. Just cannot (and do not will to)
confirm that influence.

MADMANMIKE wrote:..So KLM, you're just going to lazily dismiss the fact because it doesn't support your whining?

-Mike

..I have to assume that "and do not will to" is just missing the words "have the" (making the sentance "And do not have the will to"), as that's a common "lost in translation" gramatical error when someone from Eastern Europe speaks English; if that's not what you were implying with (and do not will to), then elaborate; if it is however, how are we not to translate that to you being lazy in this arguement?

..Likewise, infering from the article Kevin wrote (about how CJ was stat crazy and he had to edit the stats down on the laser rifle) that the absurdly large Proctor Fighter was originally more powerful is flawed. Everything CJ designed was absurdly powerful. If Kevin had targeted that fighter as something to edit to be more in line, it would actually be more in line, not as absurdly large as it is.

..No, that's not based on rumors like you suggest, it's based on what you read in the article and extrapolated. The only rumor that might support your arguement is actually not a rumor at all, but the truth. That being that Wayne wrote ship creation rules that were good until they were obliterated in editing.

..Now I'm tired of trying to talk down what I've already stated in simple terms before, so I'll go back to only posting an occassional link to my starship designs for the people who might be interested and otherwise keep my nose out of this irrational hornets nest of a forum.

..Sorry to have foolishly tried to engage in conversation here.

-Mike

The article from Kevin, the "last letter" from Bill Coffin, rumors
(divided by a large "people talk" factor) etc....

For one, I am lazy to dig out all references - that is true.

For another, I've told enough times, that PB stats are
disproportionate. (Want examples?)

And the last issue, which I am glad to discuss, is the
issue of an 500 ton fighter.
The facts, that this ship has its guns fixed forward, relies
on speed and agility (mainly) instead of shields and armor,
makes it a starfighter. Of course it would have been easier
if there were indication that the craft can be piloted by
a single individual (and not a Zebuloid, for that matter).
On the other hand, it is classified also as a "light frigate"
just for being politically correct .

As for it being scaled down... Well, both the at the "locations"
and the weapons systems there are 2 laser canons, yet
the actual stats are only given for one.
Also - being a PB craft - its weaponry is not near up to its
tonnage.

Adios
KLM