Forums of the Megaverse®

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:46 am**

this should be good, I just cant wait.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:04 am**

Lazlo all the way

I think the first step in rebuilding earth is developing long-range communication between the major good/neutral powers. Once communication is established, collaboration can begin on creating a safer method of long-range transportation. After that is accomplished, people and ideas from the various cataclysm survivor groups can be exchanged much more freely, and a new world community can begin to develop.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am**

Well, given your starting parameters (the CS destroyed by demons and mages), we have to look at what's going to happen.

I think that Free Quebec and Lazlo are going to start growing as powers, while the Tundra Rangers (shudder), Arzno, and Colorado Baronies will be able to absorb some of those moving west. It's also a question of where the Republicans are in this scenario, but they're probably going to start focusing on Quebec as the inheritors of their vision.

An actual end to the CS, I think, would see a reduction in the strength of the anti-D-Bee, anti-Magic forces in the old Canadian and American empires as those people scattered to more tolerant nations; they'd still remain, but they'd likely mellow within a generation or two, as tthe benefits of magic became more evident. Free Quebec would remain a stronghold, especially with support from Triax, but without the CS watching it's back, it's going to become more embattled, pressed from the west (which is now uneasy, but not hostile), by the Splugorth, and the unorganized non-humans everywhere.

Unless Kingsdale was complicit in whatever destroyed the CS, it is likely gone, along with Whykin; anything sufficient to knock four states off the map is going to destroy them, as well.

In any case, this is going to lead to a massive change in the balance of power... the CS is keeping a lot of forces in check and, depending on how organized their destroyers are, their destruction could have massive ramifications.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 12:18 pm**

sawg138 wrote:
K20A2_S wrote:So lets say for all you anti-CS people that your wish has been granted, the CS is gone and ruined by hordes of mages/demons/ ect ect...

What now? Where do you go from here to rebuild earth? or do you just write earth off as a lost cause?

What do you do now? Become a puppet of a dragon running lazlo?

Let me hear it, since everybody seems to have better ideas then the most powerful powerhouse in North America.

This thread isn't about bashing the CS anymore, it's about what you would propose to do to make a better earth if you had the oppurtunity to lead a country/city/land whatever.....

You lost me here. Then again, I do see tons of pro-CS bias in your post. Almost like you're defending your beloved human supremacist, death camp using, incompetent generals having, technology using nation.

yeah but they still kick Tolkeen butt and tolkeen had the power to stop them, mages much like jedis make even worse generals

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 12:25 pm**

I think rifter #37 showed it best

Demon and Monster would roam the planet.

New navy gone , Republic of japan might still be around , Triax/NGR would end up be starved to death, everybody favorite racists FQ would be destroyed along with CS, Lazlo , right they would have lefted from a new place as soon as it got hairy and FOM would be an active trading partner with atlantis.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 2:54 pm**

K20A2_S wrote:This would be the second time humanitie's stronghold would be put on the brink b/c of demons and magic.

Why do you think humans would ever trust magic again?

Not attacking your plan, just a serious question I have......

Free Quebec would become more rabidly anti-magic... but would also become very embattled, since the CS wouldn't be guarding its flank.

However, many of the refugees from the CS would be absorbed into other societies that did accept magic to one degree or another. They, themselves, would not initially accept magic, but that's a belief that would likely erode with time (I'm talking one or two generations, not one or two years); people would come to accept it because their neighbors did.

Human societies tend to liberalize over time, lacking a strong conservative force, and small minorities tend to get absorbed, especially when there are clear advantages to absorption... in this case, technological advantages.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 3:14 pm**

Mark Hall wrote:
K20A2_S wrote:This would be the second time humanitie's stronghold would be put on the brink b/c of demons and magic.

Why do you think humans would ever trust magic again?

Not attacking your plan, just a serious question I have......

Free Quebec would become more rabidly anti-magic... but would also become very embattled, since the CS wouldn't be guarding its flank.

However, many of the refugees from the CS would be absorbed into other societies that did accept magic to one degree or another. They, themselves, would not initially accept magic, but that's a belief that would likely erode with time (I'm talking one or two generations, not one or two years); people would come to accept it because their neighbors did.

Human societies tend to liberalize over time, lacking a strong conservative force, and small minorities tend to get absorbed, especially when there are clear advantages to absorption... in this case, technological advantages.

and Liberals tend to get eaten in the world of rifts, or bow down to some powerful creature, but if the invaders are carebear land , or my little pony or smurf then yes, I would agree with you , but where are the brodkil from?

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 3:42 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:Human societies tend to liberalize over time, lacking a strong conservative force, and small minorities tend to get absorbed, especially when there are clear advantages to absorption... in this case, technological advantages.
and Liberals tend to get eaten in the world of rifts, or bow down to some powerful creature, but if the invaders are carebear land , or my little pony or smurf then yes, I would agree with you , but where are the brodkil from?

By "liberalize" I mean "loosen restrictions that do not have an immediate impact upon survival." An example is kosher and halal in Jewish and Muslim dietary restrictions. In modern day America, with a variety of food sources and social pressures, many second and third generation Muslim-Americans and Jewish-Americans are more lax about dietary laws; they don't completely ignore them, but you find many more willing to sidestep them in the name of convenience amongst the second and third generation than you do amongst the first.

In the case of Rifts Earth, I can see a similar slide taking place. Take a CS refugee colony moving to Arzno; initially anti-magic and anti-D-bee, but willing to live within Arzno and keep to themselves. Their children, however, are more willing to use Techno-wizardry, however, since it is magic-as-technology, and may be willing to pay others to use magic on their behalf. Their children's children may see sorcerers amongst them, since magic is seen as a normal part of society, though their grandparents do not accept its practice and their parents are leery of it. You see similar patterns with language acquisition amongst immigrants, and technology adoption.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 3:53 pm**

Mark Hall wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:Human societies tend to liberalize over time, lacking a strong conservative force, and small minorities tend to get absorbed, especially when there are clear advantages to absorption... in this case, technological advantages.
and Liberals tend to get eaten in the world of rifts, or bow down to some powerful creature, but if the invaders are carebear land , or my little pony or smurf then yes, I would agree with you , but where are the brodkil from?

By "liberalize" I mean "loosen restrictions that do not have an immediate impact upon survival." An example is kosher and halal in Jewish and Muslim dietary restrictions. In modern day America, with a variety of food sources and social pressures, many second and third generation Muslim-Americans and Jewish-Americans are more lax about dietary laws; they don't completely ignore them, but you find many more willing to sidestep them in the name of convenience amongst the second and third generation than you do amongst the first.

In the case of Rifts Earth, I can see a similar slide taking place. Take a CS refugee colony moving to Arzno; initially anti-magic and anti-D-bee, but willing to live within Arzno and keep to themselves. Their children, however, are more willing to use Techno-wizardry, however, since it is magic-as-technology, and may be willing to pay others to use magic on their behalf. Their children's children may see sorcerers amongst them, since magic is seen as a normal part of society, though their grandparents do not accept its practice and their parents are leery of it. You see similar patterns with language acquisition amongst immigrants, and technology adoption.

instead of having a more peaceful nation, you have a new version of the coalition appear only this time using magic and tech side by side, this has happened time and time again thru out history, much like the KKK no matter how many times they try to destroy it, it still keeps coming back like a rats in a NYC taco bell

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:06 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:instead of having a more peaceful nation, you have a new version of the coalition appear only this time using magic and tech side by side, this has happened time and time again thru out history, much like the KKK no matter how many times they try to destroy it, it still keeps coming back like a rats in a NYC taco bell

Who said anything about PEACE? I simply said that they'd integrate it into their technology base.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:11 pm**

Mark Hall wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:instead of having a more peaceful nation, you have a new version of the coalition appear only this time using magic and tech side by side, this has happened time and time again thru out history, much like the KKK no matter how many times they try to destroy it, it still keeps coming back like a rats in a NYC taco bell

Who said anything about PEACE? I simply said that they'd integrate it into their technology base.

and I'm saying them could also change into a different version of the coalition or the same beings who destroyed the coalition decided to track the them down and destroy who ever welcome them in to their nation.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:13 pm**

If the CS went *poof*, I could definitely see a build-up of tensions amongst the members of the FoM. There'd be plays for power a-plenty, and I don't think a civil war is unlikely...

Splynncryth would continue to sell tickets to "the show", but not involve himself directly (though he might step up slave raids).

I think the Pecos Bandits would expand out no small bit, and raids into the former States would become a regular occurence...

The Xicitix would become a huge problem. Without the Coalition to help contain them, I think the other nation-states would be hard pressed to effectively contain/destroy them...

Assuming NG & MI didn't fall, they would immediately tighten their security & borders, or face quick destruction. They would absorb a lot of the refugee's from the former States, and greedily absorb any of the Coalition's tech. With the loss of the Coalition, I see the two becoming fast allies, else destruction is nearly guaranteed (they've burnt a lot of bridges, in the last few years).

Lazlo & New Lazlo are in a bad position. Rather than shoe-horned in between an isolationist human supremecist gov't (FQ) and a facist imperial power too busy to bother with them (CS), they now have a paranoid human supremecist gov't with itchy Boom Gun trigger fingers to the north, and a chaotic war zone to the south. Few refugees from the CS would seek sanctuary there, so it's an all around loss to Lazlo...

Free Quebec would likely gain the most from the States falling, as they would likely help in any last minute evacuation of the arcologies. Despite this, the loss of the largest humancentric power in NA is going to seriously freak them out! I see FQ adopting a "Shoot first, and keep shooting!" ideology.

The NGR would almost immediately begin it's offensive against the Gargoyle's, seeing the price of allowing the enemy to dictate the war. Whether they're ready or not, the war of genocide would begin at full pace...

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 pm**

I see the NGR falling, afterwards. The CS does far more for it, then the other way around. Shortly after FQ would go down. I see NG/MI being more merc about it, and trying to cut some deal to maintian there borders.A army of Demons and mages wouldn't really want the magic poor west of NA. So I see the new west going about its life fairly norm. I see little in the way of advancement there, maybe a little improved tech as CS refugees brought with them. I see Lazlo either sucumbing to, or joining any such force, simply because they lack the power to fight off such a force. And after the Tolkeen war, many of its refugees would more then likely want to join such a force. Lazlo would be torn apart in civil war is another likely outcome. As half of its people tried to join the CS destoyers, and the other tried to fight it off. As funny as it may seem the only real hope I see for rifts earth as a whole after the CS fails is the FoM, and then only due to the fact that half of it would be opposed to rulership by any other force. Might be a stretch for some, but I just don't see lord Dunscun happy about someone else taking his revenge from him. Maybe just me.

To summerize if the CS went poof, civilization would be plunged into a third dark age. One I see the Sploogies, useing to there advantage, grabbing up tons of land, and enslaving populations over night.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 4:35 pm**

With CS out of the picture

NGR is going to be hard pressed for medical and food, something they get from CS. Any peace gained from the Coalition falling is going to be short lived, because you now have a large power vacuum, and what ever resources gained thru trading on secondary market from the coalition is going to dry up, forcing people to stop being friendly towards each other, and all you need is someone or something who what to control it all and someone who is willing to wait until the time is right, and even Erin Tarn will be wishing the coalition was still around.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 6:11 pm**

[quote="unknownhero"]I would run around peeing on everything trying to mark my territory. Because if CS was gone it would be a race for land

I'm sigging that :ok:

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 6:21 pm**

if it'll show up that is

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:54 pm**

We really need to start a poll about if the CS went poof which kingdom/Citystate would survive?

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 3:11 am**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
K20A2_S wrote:So lets say for all you anti-CS people that your wish has been granted, the CS is gone and ruined by hordes of mages/demons/ ect ect...

What now? Where do you go from here to rebuild earth? or do you just write earth off as a lost cause?

What do you do now? Become a puppet of a dragon running lazlo?

Let me hear it, since everybody seems to have better ideas then the most powerful powerhouse in North America.

This thread isn't about bashing the CS anymore, it's about what you would propose to do to make a better earth if you had the oppurtunity to lead a country/city/land whatever.....

You lost me here. Then again, I do see tons of pro-CS bias in your post. Almost like you're defending your beloved human supremacist, death camp using, incompetent generals having, technology using nation.
yeah but they still kick Tolkeen butt and tolkeen had the power to stop them, mages much like jedis make even worse generals

QFE! Even a moron with the abilities Tolkeen had access to could wipe out the CS with very very little trouble - but those mages of Tolkeen still managed to screw it up.
Anyway, back to the OP, the only way for humanity to survive really is to become the "puppet of a dragon running lazlo" or the puppet of someone else. Mankind really has no chance, whether the CS falls or not. As things stand, the constant war and barbariasm can only lead to self-destruction. This isn't my opinion, that is something the Altess said about the Kreeghor and the humanity of Rifts Earth seems to be following the same path. Having millions of years worth of wisdom as the Altess do, who are we to question them?

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 3:54 am**

Giant2005 wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
sawg138 wrote:
K20A2_S wrote:So lets say for all you anti-CS people that your wish has been granted, the CS is gone and ruined by hordes of mages/demons/ ect ect...

What now? Where do you go from here to rebuild earth? or do you just write earth off as a lost cause?

What do you do now? Become a puppet of a dragon running lazlo?

Let me hear it, since everybody seems to have better ideas then the most powerful powerhouse in North America.

This thread isn't about bashing the CS anymore, it's about what you would propose to do to make a better earth if you had the oppurtunity to lead a country/city/land whatever.....

You lost me here. Then again, I do see tons of pro-CS bias in your post. Almost like you're defending your beloved human supremacist, death camp using, incompetent generals having, technology using nation.
yeah but they still kick Tolkeen butt and tolkeen had the power to stop them, mages much like jedis make even worse generals

QFE! Even a moron with the abilities Tolkeen had access to could wipe out the CS with very very little trouble - but those mages of Tolkeen still managed to screw it up.
Anyway, back to the OP, the only way for humanity to survive really is to become the "puppet of a dragon running lazlo" or the puppet of someone else. Mankind really has no chance, whether the CS falls or not. As things stand, the constant war and barbariasm can only lead to self-destruction. This isn't my opinion, that is something the Altess said about the Kreeghor and the humanity of Rifts Earth seems to be following the same path. Having millions of years worth of wisdom as the Altess do, who are we to question them?

after joseph's heir take control of the coalition, then the coalition might to reform and change or fall apart, but it comes down to what type of master are going to follow a human master or a non-human master.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 3:57 am**

Riftfriend wrote:Megaversal Legion and the New Navy all the way!!

went to comes down to it those two are a complete worthless instead of trying to rebuild the United States with The New Republicians and maybe Archie-3, they completely turn their backs on thier former countrymen and rather do their own thing then make a stand against the coalition

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 10:14 am**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:Megaversal Legion and the New Navy all the way!!
went to comes down to it those two are a complete worthless instead of trying to rebuild the United States with The New Republicians and maybe Archie-3, they completely turn their backs on thier former countrymen and rather do their own thing then make a stand against the coalition

only humans I view with more disgust is the ones up in space

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 4:06 pm**

Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?

beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 4:20 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 5:59 pm**

I don't think it's fair to say the NGR would fall after the CS - they've been kicking ass for longer, harder and we don't have any canon references as to how much the CS help out, unless that info is in SoT/Aftermath, books I don't own. If you ask me, the CS have gained much more out of the trade, like most of the tech to re-tool their army.

If the CS fell, the NGR could look to make friends elsewhere for the meds/supplies etc that the CS provided - the New Navy, Camelot or Tritonia for example.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:49 pm**

sHaka wrote:I don't think it's fair to say the NGR would fall after the CS - they've been kicking ass for longer, harder and we don't have any canon references as to how much the CS help out, unless that info is in SoT/Aftermath, books I don't own. If you ask me, the CS have gained much more out of the trade, like most of the tech to re-tool their army.

If the CS fell, the NGR could look to make friends elsewhere for the meds/supplies etc that the CS provided - the New Navy, Camelot or Tritonia for example.

Hardly. It states several times in both CSWC and NGR that the NGR relays on its overseas allies for foodstuffs, and other goods. Why else does the NGR and Triax kiss up to the CS? The NGR is older, it has a better tech level, but it has a far worse enemy pounding on it's door. Add into that, that the CS is one of the reasons that Atlantis doesn't provide more aid to the GE, then it does. That and the Sploogies worry over the GE's growth.

Now keep in mind that T2 will probably change all that, but until then the ideal that the NGR falls after the CS is still very valid

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:55 pm**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

The country is not the President, nor the Congress, nor even the Constitution. It is the People.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 7:57 pm**

Mark Hall wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

The country is not the President, nor the Congress, nor even the Constitution. It is the People.

Never have truer words been said.

Posted: **Thu May 17, 2007 9:19 pm**

I'm seeing inhuman empires becoming a problem really fast. Xiticix and Vampires come to mind immediately, not to mention other groups I'm probably forgetting ATM. Also, I think there'd be a massive problem trying to figure out what to do with that magnitude of displaced population if another version of the CS didn't emerge pretty quickly. The problems created would be increadible, and too far reaching for us to realisically conceive them all in this thread, even if it lasted for a hundred pages.

And for the record, I'm with the side of "Anti-CS" guys who just'd like a more tolerant and less oppressive policy out of them. Elimination would be catestrophic -- after all, you would be destroying the most powerful politico-military entity on the planet. (I realize that "politico-military" isn't a word, but that's too bad...

)

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 2:29 am**

Ravenwing wrote:
sHaka wrote:I don't think it's fair to say the NGR would fall after the CS - they've been kicking ass for longer, harder and we don't have any canon references as to how much the CS help out, unless that info is in SoT/Aftermath, books I don't own. If you ask me, the CS have gained much more out of the trade, like most of the tech to re-tool their army.

If the CS fell, the NGR could look to make friends elsewhere for the meds/supplies etc that the CS provided - the New Navy, Camelot or Tritonia for example.

Hardly. It states several times in both CSWC and NGR that the NGR relays on its overseas allies for foodstuffs, and other goods. Why else does the NGR and Triax kiss up to the CS? The NGR is older, it has a better tech level, but it has a far worse enemy pounding on it's door. Add into that, that the CS is one of the reasons that Atlantis doesn't provide more aid to the GE, then it does. That and the Sploogies worry over the GE's growth.

Now keep in mind that T2 will probably change all that, but until then the ideal that the NGR falls after the CS is still very valid

Actually, the reason that old Splynnie doesn't give more aid to the GE, is because he is enjoying watching the war and wants it to continue. It even states that if the GE start looking like they have the advantage, he will then begin aiding the humans just to keep the war raging for his personal amusement.
With that in mind, the NGR isn't really relying on CS donations at all - if that supply stopped, I'm sure Spynncryth would anonymously make sure they had all they required to make sure that the war continued.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 4:47 am**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker

since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 9:55 am**

New Navy forces would know about Lone Star why exactly? As far as they can tell from (early) coastal analysis, the former United States is a complete loss. Better to attempt to rebuild something at sea than waste their lives looking for what doesn't exist based on evidence at hand.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 10:36 am**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 10:49 am**

Giant2005 wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
sHaka wrote:I don't think it's fair to say the NGR would fall after the CS - they've been kicking ass for longer, harder and we don't have any canon references as to how much the CS help out, unless that info is in SoT/Aftermath, books I don't own. If you ask me, the CS have gained much more out of the trade, like most of the tech to re-tool their army.

If the CS fell, the NGR could look to make friends elsewhere for the meds/supplies etc that the CS provided - the New Navy, Camelot or Tritonia for example.

Hardly. It states several times in both CSWC and NGR that the NGR relays on its overseas allies for foodstuffs, and other goods. Why else does the NGR and Triax kiss up to the CS? The NGR is older, it has a better tech level, but it has a far worse enemy pounding on it's door. Add into that, that the CS is one of the reasons that Atlantis doesn't provide more aid to the GE, then it does. That and the Sploogies worry over the GE's growth.

Now keep in mind that T2 will probably change all that, but until then the ideal that the NGR falls after the CS is still very valid

Actually, the reason that old Splynnie doesn't give more aid to the GE, is because he is enjoying watching the war and wants it to continue. It even states that if the GE start looking like they have the advantage, he will then begin aiding the humans just to keep the war raging for his personal amusement.
With that in mind, the NGR isn't really relying on CS donations at all - if that supply stopped, I'm sure Spynncryth would anonymously make sure they had all they required to make sure that the war continued.

It also states clearly several times, in Atlantis, CSWC,NGR, and CSN that Splynnie is more worried about the GE growing to large, to powerful, not because they will end the war, but because they night prove a danger to Atlantis,and his Op's. I know the paragraph your talking about, but that is how things stand now. I agree IF the CS is still around ole' Splynnie is going to give "secret support" to the NGR in the advent that the GE is on the brink of winning. But IF the CS was gone, all bets are off, without the CS to provide support to the NGR Atlantis isn't going to have a problem letting the GE wipe the german people from the face of the planet. That is why the NGR wanted the alliance with the CS sooooooooo badly. The NGR needs the support of the CS far more then the CS needs it. So much so that as the books currently dipict it, the NGR is fairly reliant on the CS. Because if the CS is wiped out, that will provide more "entertainment" to the monsters, then the war in europe, not to mention the further "entertainment value" of watching the other bastion of humanity get wiped out.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 12:18 pm**

Mark Hall wrote:The country is not the President, nor the Congress, nor even the Constitution. It is the People.

And if the people change the government it's still the same country? And which people would the Megaversal Legion get behind, the country that is the CS, the Country that is Arnzo, how bout the country that is New Lazlo?

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 12:19 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

That doesn't make them Americans or make them the country that the Megaversal Legion was part of. Just like me saying I'm an Austrian suddenly makes me a member of the EU.

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 12:22 pm**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:The country is not the President, nor the Congress, nor even the Constitution. It is the People.

And if the people change the government it's still the same country? And which people would the Megaversal Legion get behind, the country that is the CS, the Country that is Arnzo, how bout the country that is New Lazlo?

Daniel Stoker

New lazlo's full of illegal aliens,it doesn't count :lol:

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 4:54 pm**

Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.

i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:00 pm**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

That doesn't make them Americans or make them the country that the Megaversal Legion was part of. Just like me saying I'm an Austrian suddenly makes me a member of the EU.

Daniel Stoker

only if you can trace it back hundreds of years like they can

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:01 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:only if you can trace it back hundreds of years like they can

And I can trace back my Austrian-ness. Doesn't make me one now though now does it? Heck, does that mean that everyone living in Italy now is really a Roman?

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:05 pm**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:only if you can trace it back hundreds of years like they can

And I can trace back my Austrian-ness. Doesn't make me one now though now does it? Heck, does that mean that everyone living in Italy now is really a Roman?

Daniel Stoker

if they can trace back to the roman times, but the new navy and the republician think of themselves as americans as do the humans of the Megaversal Legion

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:07 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.
i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Last I checked it's several hundered miles from the Texas pan handle to the gulf of mexico. In that span one if they were doing either an aerial, or ground based recon would encounter no less then nearly 500 towns,cities and villages. Now then during the Cataclysm one also would have encountered numerous leyline storms, hurricanes and other weather related events on there way to the pan handle, so most air recon is out. Ground based would have encounter demon plagues, rioters, militias, and viglantes. Either would have made any such recon efforts moot.

Post Cataclysm one would have met vampires, bandits, the budding Cs navy if after the creation of the CS,CS ground troops, merc's and otherworldly monsters. Again the chances of taking a recon patrol into the thousands of square miles of Texas, to find a single town of 1400, that you have no real reason to even suspect exists, assumeing you even knew about it to begin with, are about the same as a snowballs chance in hell. The CS found it, only because it was in the area of briscoe.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:08 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:if they can trace back to the roman times, but the new navy and the republician think of themselves as americans as do the humans of the Megaversal Legion

But they don't think of themselves as the United States. Well the Legion doesn't, the Navy from what I remember more considers themselves the last military bastion of the US.

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:20 pm**

Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.
i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Last I checked it's several hundered miles from the Texas pan handle to the gulf of mexico. In that span one if they were doing either an aerial, or ground based recon would encounter no less then nearly 500 towns,cities and villages. Now then during the Cataclysm one also would have encountered numerous leyline storms, hurricanes and other weather related events on there way to the pan handle, so most air recon is out. Ground based would have encounter demon plagues, rioters, militias, and viglantes. Either would have made any such recon efforts moot.

Post Cataclysm one would have met vampires, bandits, the budding Cs navy if after the creation of the CS,CS ground troops, merc's and otherworldly monsters. Again the chances of taking a recon patrol into the thousands of square miles of Texas, to find a single town of 1400, that you have no real reason to even suspect exists, assumeing you even knew about it to begin with, are about the same as a snowballs chance in hell. The CS found it, only because it was in the area of briscoe.

the facts that they only recon the coast line speaks wonders about them.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:33 pm**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:if they can trace back to the roman times, but the new navy and the republician think of themselves as americans as do the humans of the Megaversal Legion

But they don't think of themselves as the United States. Well the Legion doesn't, the Navy from what I remember more considers themselves the last military bastion of the US.

Daniel Stoker

well there is not much on them, but the both the Sailors and marine consider themselves as displaced americans

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 5:38 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.
i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Last I checked it's several hundered miles from the Texas pan handle to the gulf of mexico. In that span one if they were doing either an aerial, or ground based recon would encounter no less then nearly 500 towns,cities and villages. Now then during the Cataclysm one also would have encountered numerous leyline storms, hurricanes and other weather related events on there way to the pan handle, so most air recon is out. Ground based would have encounter demon plagues, rioters, militias, and viglantes. Either would have made any such recon efforts moot.

Post Cataclysm one would have met vampires, bandits, the budding Cs navy if after the creation of the CS,CS ground troops, merc's and otherworldly monsters. Again the chances of taking a recon patrol into the thousands of square miles of Texas, to find a single town of 1400, that you have no real reason to even suspect exists, assumeing you even knew about it to begin with, are about the same as a snowballs chance in hell. The CS found it, only because it was in the area of briscoe.
the facts that they only recon the coast line speaks wonders about them.

No offense meant by this, but what exactly is your point? As I've pointed out the NN isn't to blame for there lack of trying to "Restore" the good ole' USA. Infact I've shown that in rifts such an ideal is to costly,the NN had to make a choice, much like those in orbit. Try and scrape together a nation, that for all you know no human lives in, or do what you can to survive and carry the dreams and hopes of that nation forward.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 6:18 pm**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:well there is not much on them, but the both the Sailors and marine consider themselves as displaced americans

But they still don't think of themselves as the United States, nor do they think their country is still around.

Daniel Stoker

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 11:29 pm**

Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.
i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Last I checked it's several hundered miles from the Texas pan handle to the gulf of mexico. In that span one if they were doing either an aerial, or ground based recon would encounter no less then nearly 500 towns,cities and villages. Now then during the Cataclysm one also would have encountered numerous leyline storms, hurricanes and other weather related events on there way to the pan handle, so most air recon is out. Ground based would have encounter demon plagues, rioters, militias, and viglantes. Either would have made any such recon efforts moot.

Post Cataclysm one would have met vampires, bandits, the budding Cs navy if after the creation of the CS,CS ground troops, merc's and otherworldly monsters. Again the chances of taking a recon patrol into the thousands of square miles of Texas, to find a single town of 1400, that you have no real reason to even suspect exists, assumeing you even knew about it to begin with, are about the same as a snowballs chance in hell. The CS found it, only because it was in the area of briscoe.
the facts that they only recon the coast line speaks wonders about them.

No offense meant by this, but what exactly is your point? As I've pointed out the NN isn't to blame for there lack of trying to "Restore" the good ole' USA. Infact I've shown that in rifts such an ideal is to costly,the NN had to make a choice, much like those in orbit. Try and scrape together a nation, that for all you know no human lives in, or do what you can to survive and carry the dreams and hopes of that nation forward.

perhaps one the main reason why the coalition is in power is their unwillness to do anything, looks at their resources.

Posted: **Fri May 18, 2007 11:36 pm**

Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:well there is not much on them, but the both the Sailors and marine consider themselves as displaced americans

But they still don't think of themselves as the United States, nor do they think their country is still around.

Daniel Stoker

Check out the Note under Captian Nemo-2

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 12:50 am**

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.
i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Last I checked it's several hundered miles from the Texas pan handle to the gulf of mexico. In that span one if they were doing either an aerial, or ground based recon would encounter no less then nearly 500 towns,cities and villages. Now then during the Cataclysm one also would have encountered numerous leyline storms, hurricanes and other weather related events on there way to the pan handle, so most air recon is out. Ground based would have encounter demon plagues, rioters, militias, and viglantes. Either would have made any such recon efforts moot.

Post Cataclysm one would have met vampires, bandits, the budding Cs navy if after the creation of the CS,CS ground troops, merc's and otherworldly monsters. Again the chances of taking a recon patrol into the thousands of square miles of Texas, to find a single town of 1400, that you have no real reason to even suspect exists, assumeing you even knew about it to begin with, are about the same as a snowballs chance in hell. The CS found it, only because it was in the area of briscoe.
the facts that they only recon the coast line speaks wonders about them.

No offense meant by this, but what exactly is your point? As I've pointed out the NN isn't to blame for there lack of trying to "Restore" the good ole' USA. Infact I've shown that in rifts such an ideal is to costly,the NN had to make a choice, much like those in orbit. Try and scrape together a nation, that for all you know no human lives in, or do what you can to survive and carry the dreams and hopes of that nation forward.
perhaps one the main reason why the coalition is in power is their unwillness to do anything, looks at their resources.

Still doesn't understand your point.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 9:23 am**

Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Riftfriend wrote:What ev. They are an awesome duo.

What do you have against them?
beside the fact they turned thier back on their own country without even a second thought.

Where exactly is the United States President holding office again? They turned their backs on a destroyed land that housed their country, one in order to survive, the other... well because by the time they got back there wasn't any remnants of their country left.

Daniel Stoker
since one of the city in lone star still calls themselves Americans and flys the flag of the United States of America.

Briscoe? You realize that the the town is near oklahoma, and not near the sea right? Besides that before the CS showed up, they had a population of like what, 1400? If that. With no means of long range instant communication how in the world would the navy even know they exisited? It's not like the commander of the navy got a message from them.
i guess you realized that they didn't recon any thing but the coasts

Last I checked it's several hundered miles from the Texas pan handle to the gulf of mexico. In that span one if they were doing either an aerial, or ground based recon would encounter no less then nearly 500 towns,cities and villages. Now then during the Cataclysm one also would have encountered numerous leyline storms, hurricanes and other weather related events on there way to the pan handle, so most air recon is out. Ground based would have encounter demon plagues, rioters, militias, and viglantes. Either would have made any such recon efforts moot.

Post Cataclysm one would have met vampires, bandits, the budding Cs navy if after the creation of the CS,CS ground troops, merc's and otherworldly monsters. Again the chances of taking a recon patrol into the thousands of square miles of Texas, to find a single town of 1400, that you have no real reason to even suspect exists, assumeing you even knew about it to begin with, are about the same as a snowballs chance in hell. The CS found it, only because it was in the area of briscoe.
the facts that they only recon the coast line speaks wonders about them.

No offense meant by this, but what exactly is your point? As I've pointed out the NN isn't to blame for there lack of trying to "Restore" the good ole' USA. Infact I've shown that in rifts such an ideal is to costly,the NN had to make a choice, much like those in orbit. Try and scrape together a nation, that for all you know no human lives in, or do what you can to survive and carry the dreams and hopes of that nation forward.
perhaps one the main reason why the coalition is in power is their unwillness to do anything, looks at their resources.

Still doesn't understand your point.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

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