What you DON'T want to see...

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Okay, so I have been kicking around some ideas for Nightbane Sourcebook and I found myself thinking "what do the fans want?" Short answer: anything. So, naturally for the longer answer I thought why not ask you guys? HOWEVER, because of a bevy of issues - i.e. legal ones dealing with intellectual property - I don't believe I can ask that.

There is always the next best thing though, which is this question:

What do you, in a new Nightbane book, not want to see?

Well?

Just keep it civil folks.

~Josh

[Marrowlight]

Unless they are very, very, very small (no presence beyond a city or super small country and no "great power that makes them the equal of the Resistance/Nocturnes/whatever") no new factions.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Unless they are very, very, very small (no presence beyond a city or super small country and no "great power that makes them the equal of the Resistance/Nocturnes/whatever") no new factions.

Ooh, good one.

~Josh

[Rallan]

No books where they decide to pad things out with twenty pages of new magic items and high-tech gear.

No making so many character classes that you end up with two Gambler OCCs and three or more Glitter Boy Pilot OCCs

[BillionSix]

Well, I can't think of much that I don't want to see. I don't really care for a new major race, like the Athanatos. Minor ones are okay.

I have mentioned this before, but I like the idea of a World book, showing how Dark Day affected other countries. So far we only have the USA version.
And I wouldn't mind a sort of Powers Unlimited book for Nightbane. (Wouldn't use the "Unlimited" name, of course.) A book that mainly gives lots of Talents, Spells and Psionic powers with the grim nasty Nightbane flavor, as well as more Morphus tables.

Just some thoughts.

Brian

[Agent_gir]

not interested in, power escalation, new combat forms, weapons, new occs, advanced time line, tech (like no "hound buster armour"), new races.

I guess I'm just interested in setting, setting, and more setting and maybe a few useful(not powerful) powers/spells.

the more setting, be they citys countrys or areas of the nightlands, etc, you can fit into one book the better

NO RIFTIFICATION

[Rallan]

I would absolutely hate to see nothing on new humans.

Ooh, clever. I think I'd also hate to see new books that don't help GMs and players come up with new ways on focusing on the little guys rather than just focusing exclusively on the default "superheroes who look like monsters" campaign style

[Incriptus]

It seems to be hard to answer a negative question, half the people here can't do it

but anyways what I'm against

Large\Powerful Factions --- The main book presented us with a nice variety of factions, and I think anyone else on that scale would start to croud the scene. (Exception --- non-american books, you could have a large scale forign faction)

New supernatural beings --- Once again I think the main book had enough variety (Humans, Nightbane, Guardians, Nightlords, Vampires) that anything else would seem to be over doing it. I think it's been implied that most of your old school mythology creatures were just banes, and i'd leave it at that



You know that might just be the 'problem' with nightbane . . . it might just be too solid of a concept. Since in reality I would only have 4 (maybe 5) books for the game.

Book 1: Focus Nightbane
Book 2: Focus Humans
Book 3: Focus Nightlords
Book 4: Focus Magic
Book 5: Focus Forces of Light (Guardians)

[Rallan]

Poorly drawn porn. Thats what I don't want to see in Nightbane.

Agreed. It should be well drawn.

And more representative of both genders. Ramon Perez Jr. could always be relied on to squeeze attractive people into slinky latex outfits, but a few more lean, scantily clad guys wouldn't have gone astray

[acreRake]

Speaking of which, what are the major religions doing after Dark Day? A Priest OCC would be viable in Nightbane, imo. Fleshing out the Darkness and whatever is behind the guardians would be good. Ditto that for the "Formless Ones".

Please PLEASE do NOT "flesh out" the Dark, whatever is behind the Guardians, and the Formless Ones.

I also would like to see a lack of new supernatural beings, outside of those solely found in the astral, dreamstream, mirrorwall or other planes.

BTW: Snake Birds are cool ...just fyi.

[Rallan]

Some more things I don't want to see:

Asian NPCs who are kung fu masters. New magic/psychic character classes that are just an embarassingly corny and oversimplified take on the traditional beliefs of the native people of a region. Villians smart enough to carve out evil empires and thwart all their opponents through the centuries, but who make all the mistakes on the Evil Overlord list. Obvious parodies of real-world products/celebrities with embarassingly dumb names. Random tables for anything at all. An attempt at metaplot anywhere near as bad as Siege On Tolkeen. A novel. Worldbooks where more or less the exact same template is used time after time after time. Made-up drugs. Clumsy attempts to be edgy without making things too naughty. A foreword where Kevin Siembieda uses lots of exclamation marks. Five pages of character sheets in the back.

[acreRake]

Some more things I don't want to see:

Asian NPCs who are kung fu masters. New magic/psychic character classes that are just an embarrassingly corny and oversimplified take on the traditional beliefs of the native people of a region.

Right. On.

That second one goes for priests, too, in my book. Speaking of priests, don't make religious "factions". That's what the Lightbringers are for.

That reminds me: if you do make up new organizations, don't call them Factions, unless they are, in fact, a faction of the 'Bane. As in, the individual Nightspawn must choose to work exclusively with that party (thus dividing them). If it's a club, call it a club. If it's a church, call it a church; a mystic order; a secret brotherhood; a message board, (please not another) new race; whatever. That's what they are, NOT Factions.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Nice to see that I am on the same page with most of you.



~ Josh

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

no high technology

Damn straight.

People seem to forget that it mentions in the Nightbane RPG that the Nightlord takeover has purposefully stymied technological advancement, so that what was the norm in the late 90's in the norm now.

Which means that a lot of the advancements of the last seven years didn't happen. Which means that PDAs, black berries, and computers are not as advanced, and the former two are not as common. Cell phones are slightly less common, and are a lot bigger - most don't have cameras, none have videorecorders. Heck, even Cable and DSL internet connections are not commonplace (or at least not as commonplace).

Considering that, high technology is sure as heck out of the question.

~ Josh

[Rallan]

no new factions

What about books covering stuff outside North America? Some groups in the game so far are global (Seekers, Lightbringers, Nocturnes, Underground Railroad). Some are international, but might not have truly worldwide coverage (eg Resistance, Club Freak). And some are clearly unique to the United States (eg Warlords, Spook Squad, Golden Posse). Other parts of the world are highly likely to have new factions. Hell, other parts of the world are likely to have new factions which duplicate the role of some of the existing international ones (realistically, why should the Underground Railroad be a single monolithic entity that's in charge of protecting Nightbane all over the globe?). A whole bunch of uber-powerful factions appearing from thin air in the North American setting would be silly, but no sillier than having the exact same factions all over the world.

no x-files type "the government knows they exist" crap

Um... too late. I hate to break it to you, but the governments of the world (and especially their intelligence and law enforcement agencies) are ran by the Nightlords and stacked with their minions, and the most heavily armed and best-equipped faction in the game is ran by former government agents who know the truth

[Warwolf]

no high technology

Damn straight.

People seem to forget that it mentions in the Nightbane RPG that the Nightlord takeover has purposefully stymied technological advancement, so that what was the norm in the late 90's in the norm now.

Which means that a lot of the advancements of the last seven years didn't happen. Which means that PDAs, black berries, and computers are not as advanced, and the former two are not as common. Cell phones are slightly less common, and are a lot bigger - most don't have cameras, none have videorecorders. Heck, even Cable and DSL internet connections are not commonplace (or at least not as commonplace).

Considering that, high technology is sure as heck out of the question.

Incorrect, the technology is roughly equivalent to what we have now. If you recall, the Main Book stated that technology was a bit more advanced in Nightbane than the real world's timeline. It specifically mentioned technology such as vid-phones.

[Marrowlight]

no high technology

Damn straight.

People seem to forget that it mentions in the Nightbane RPG that the Nightlord takeover has purposefully stymied technological advancement, so that what was the norm in the late 90's in the norm now.

Which means that a lot of the advancements of the last seven years didn't happen. Which means that PDAs, black berries, and computers are not as advanced, and the former two are not as common. Cell phones are slightly less common, and are a lot bigger - most don't have cameras, none have videorecorders. Heck, even Cable and DSL internet connections are not commonplace (or at least not as commonplace).

Considering that, high technology is sure as heck out of the question.

Incorrect, the technology is roughly equivalent to what we have now. If you recall, the Main Book stated that technology was a bit more advanced in Nightbane than the real world's timeline. It specifically mentioned technology such as vid-phones.

Fight! Fight!

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

no high technology

Damn straight.

People seem to forget that it mentions in the Nightbane RPG that the Nightlord takeover has purposefully stymied technological advancement, so that what was the norm in the late 90's in the norm now.

Which means that a lot of the advancements of the last seven years didn't happen. Which means that PDAs, black berries, and computers are not as advanced, and the former two are not as common. Cell phones are slightly less common, and are a lot bigger - most don't have cameras, none have videorecorders. Heck, even Cable and DSL internet connections are not commonplace (or at least not as commonplace).

Considering that, high technology is sure as heck out of the question.

Incorrect, the technology is roughly equivalent to what we have now. If you recall, the Main <a href="http://search/book">Book</a> stated that technology was a bit more advanced in Nightbane than the real world's timeline. It specifically mentioned technology such as vid-phones.

No, not incorrect.

The book does mention videophones as a technology, but that is only because we believed back then that videophones would be coming into use.

The RPG specifically mentions how the Nightlords have stymied technological developments, et cetera, et cetera.

~ Josh

[Warwolf]

No, not incorrect.

The book does mention videophones as a technology, but that is only because we believed back then that videophones would be coming into use.

The RPG specifically mentions how the Nightlords have stymied technological developments, et cetera, et cetera.

Sure, they have stymied things. But if things were already 5-10 years ahead of the real world, then technology in Nightbane will be roughly equivalent to what we have now (hence the computer/phone/answering machine combo... computer calls are becoming more and more commonplace in the real world NOW).

Trust me on this one, Josh. I wouldn't steer you wrong.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

No, not incorrect.

The <a href="http://book">book</a> does mention videophones as a technology, but that is only because we believed back then that videophones would be coming into use.

The RPG specifically mentions how the Nightlords have stymied technological developments, et cetera, et cetera.

Sure, they have stymied things. But if things were already 5-10 years ahead of the real world, then technology in Nightbane will be roughly equivalent to what we have now (hence the computer/phone/answering machine combo... <a href="http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/computer">computer</a> calls are becoming more and more commonplace in the real world NOW).

Trust me on this one, Josh. I wouldn't steer you wrong.

Know you wouldn't.

But I am literally paraphrasing from the Nightbane RPG, it makes mention of the fact that technology is stymied, and that the tech of '05 (etc.) is equivalent to late 90's.

If I wasn't miles from home, I'd post a page number. I won't be back until Tuesday. It's in the beginning of the book though.

~ Josh

[Marrowlight]

No, not incorrect.

The <a href="http://book">book</a> does mention videophones as a technology, but that is only because we believed back then that videophones would be coming into use.

The RPG specifically mentions how the Nightlords have stymied technological developments, et cetera, et cetera.

Sure, they have stymied things. But if things were already 5-10 years ahead of the real world, then technology in Nightbane will be roughly equivalent to what we have now (hence the computer/phone/answering machine combo... <a href="http://forums.palladium-megaverse.com/computer">computer</a> calls are becoming more and more commonplace in the real world NOW).

Trust me on this one, Josh. I wouldn't steer you wrong.

Know you wouldn't.

But I am literally paraphrasing from the Nightbane RPG, it makes mention of the fact that technology is stymied, and that the tech of '05 (etc.) is equivalent to late 90's.

If I wasn't miles from home, I'd post a page number. I won't be back until Tuesday. It's in the beginning of the book though.

~ Josh

Josh got REALLY lost on his last urban exploration it seems.

[Rallan]

Some more things I don't want to see:

Asian NPCs who are kung fu masters. New magic/psychic character classes that are just an embarassingly corny and oversimplified take on the traditional beliefs of the native people of a region. Villians smart enough to carve out evil empires and thwart all their opponents through the centuries, but who make all the mistakes on the Evil Overlord list. Obvious parodies of real-world products/celebrities with embarassingly dumb names. Random tables for anything at all. An attempt at metaplot anywhere near as bad as Siege On Tolkeen. A novel. Worldbooks where more or less the exact same template is used time after time after time. Made-up drugs. Clumsy attempts to be edgy without making things too naughty. A foreword where Kevin Siembieda uses lots of exclamation marks. Five pages of character sheets in the back.

OK So what does Palladium put out that you like?

Why? You actually want to see more books with those features or something?

[Marrowlight]

Some more things I don't want to see:

Asian NPCs who are kung fu masters. New magic/psychic character classes that are just an embarassingly corny and oversimplified take on the traditional beliefs of the native people of a region. Villians smart enough to carve out evil empires and thwart all their opponents through the centuries, but who make all the mistakes on the Evil Overlord list. Obvious parodies of real-world products/celebrities with embarassingly dumb names. Random tables for anything at all. An attempt at metaplot anywhere near as bad as Siege On Tolkeen. A novel. Worldbooks where more or less the exact same template is used time after time after time. Made-up drugs. Clumsy attempts to be edgy without making things too naughty. A foreword where Kevin Siembieda uses lots of exclamation marks. Five pages of character sheets in the back.

OK So what does Palladium put out that you like?

Why? You actually want to see more books with those features or something?

Translation: Nothing! Absolutely Nothing!

[JTwig]

I have to second (or in this case 13th, 20th, what ever) that it needs no new faction (unless localized) and no new supernatural baddies.

I know that some said they wanted to see the time line advanced a little, but I don't think it should. Give us a look at Russia, Mexico, or Europe at the same time frame as North America. I've always felt that the advancing time line was one of the biggest weakness of Palladium Books. I prefer to see the plot and setting being driven by the players actions. While that is more difficult in setting like Rifts, Nightbane on the other hand is the perfect setting for player driven advancement and the players action have a greater chance of effecting the entire balance of power.

[Nightshade37]

I for one would hate to see the game go by the wayside without eventually explaining more about The Dark, The Light, and the origins of the Nightbane/Guardians.

[drewkitty ~..~]

No power creep.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Keep in mind that this thread is want you don't want to see, not what you want to see.

If you say what you want to see, I (and any other freelancer) will just skip over your post. This is not because we are jerks, rather it's for intellectual property and copyright reasons: i.e. so that we avoid someone coming back later claiming that they came up with the idea and want credit or compensation.

Sure, the majority of you (98 or maybe even 99%) won't do that. Unfortunately though, the 1 to 2% that would ruins it for everyone else. So, I would like to avoid that danger by asking what you DON'T WANT TO SEE instead,

~ Josh

[Marrowlight]

I'd make the claim.





Thought about it -- I don't want to see notes on other nations unless they're really detailed and well researched. This isn't Rifts where it's been 50000000 years since the Germany of today mattered. If folks talk about Germany, or Russia, or Japan, they'd best be able to really talk about it.

[Rallan]

I have to second (or in this case 13th, 20th, what ever) that it needs no new faction (unless localized) and no new supernatural baddies.

I know that some said they wanted to see the time line advanced a little, but I don't think it should. Give us a look at Russia, Mexico, or Europe at the same time frame as North America. I've always felt that the advancing time line was one of the biggest weakness of Palladium Books. I prefer to see the plot and setting being driven by the players actions. While that is more difficult in setting like Rifts, Nightbane on the other hand is the perfect setting for player driven advancement and the players action have a greater chance of effecting the entire balance of power.

Advancing the timeline wasn't the problem (the early books did it well with small incremental increases and no real storyline beyond Erin Tarn's travels). It's the fact that they didn't have a coherent plan for what direction everything was going in, or even a coherent plan for what each part of the world in the next Worldbook would have. And when they finally did try their hand at deliberate metaplot, it was a hamfisted Saturday Morning Cartoon sort of an affair that was worse than no attempt at all.

It's not that metaplot and an advancing timeline are intrinsically bad things, it's just that they don't work very well if you make the whole thing up as you go instead of having some sort of plan. And since Nightbane's become a low-priority game line with new books being picked more or less at random based on whether there's anything good coming in from freelancers at the time, we can safely say there isn't a coherent plan for an ongoing Nightbane storyline.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Josh, while I understand where you're coming from with that, if you clap your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to what customers are asking you, all because you're worried they'll later claim you stole their ideas, you completely lose touch with the marketplace.

At some point, we all need to be big boys here. Very little that has been presented in this thread is fleshed out enough you'd be in any danger.

~Semi

No offense but I believe that you're missing the point.

People have, in the past, tried to say that X company (Palladium or otherwise) has stolen their idea that they either posted on X (or Y) company's message board or online. Heck, it happened when Powers Unlimited 3 came out, though luckily it was resolved rather quickly.

Did anything come of these cases or incidents? Likely not (I don't know), though nothing came of the one above. Even then, they are an uneseccary headache and sometimes expense whenever they pop up.

Listen to what the fans say and what they want? Hell yes. But that is not what this is about. What makes this different is the fact that I came out and publically asked you guys. If I straight out ask what you want to see, then I no longer have plausible deniability if someone tries to claim that I (or another Freelancer) ripped their idea (even though, as we can all agree, that I/we wouldn't be ripping an idea). Would they have a case if they actually pursued it? Probably not. But even if they didn't, that is still an unecessary headache and possible expense that is better to be avoided by playing it safe.

Again, that's the difference here: I asked. If I read on some thread that people want to see X and then I create X, then the above is less likely to happen as I have plausible deniability. But if I ask what people want to see, and then write it, there is always that chance that the 1 or 2% I mentioned in my above post would take issue and claim they need at least credit (whether their claim is valid or not is somewhat irrelevant here). Can it happen even if I have plausible deniability? Yes, though it is less likely.

Oh, and I have to note this because I can see certain posters getting ready to do the twist: I am not saying that plausible deniability is some shield to use to rip off ideas. Ripping off ideas is bad, mmmkay. If I borrow from some fleshed out idea that one of you posted, I am sure as heck going to square it with you first (and more than likely give you proper credit). Yeah, reading what you want to see and acting on it is not ripping off an idea, but that won't stop certain people from claiming that they were ripped off or deserve credit.

I realize that this is kind of silly, but so would someone claiming that I ripped them off because I listened to a suggestion. Sometimes though, you have to counter silliness with silliness. It's just easier.

~ Josh

[Warwolf]

What dont I want to see? No more vampires...

I think you're pretty much out of luck there. They are a major part of the setting (i.e. the Nocturnes).

[acreRake]

Instead of expounding upon the background of The Light or The Dark I would like to see more information on them that allows you to draw your own conclusions. Like, instead of going "The Light is X" I'd rather see more about how they organize themselves, more information about their ships and operations in other dimensions/on other worlds, etc. Instead of revealing the core of the puzzle you fill out the edges.

Yes. That's it exactly.

Random tables? Yes!
(And then when you put random tables in your book, i'll claim they were my idea and sue for several monies BWAHAHAHAH!!!!1!1oneoneeleven!!1)

Seriously, random tables are fine.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Instead of expounding upon the background of The Light or The Dark I would like to see more information on them that allows you to draw your own conclusions. Like, instead of going "The Light is X" I'd rather see more about how they organize themselves, more information about their ships and operations in other dimensions/on other worlds, etc. Instead of revealing the core of the puzzle you fill out the edges.

Yes. That's it exactly.

Random tables? Yes!
(And then when you put random tables in your book, i'll claim they were my idea and sue for several monies BWAHAHAHAH!!!!1!1oneoneeleven!!1)

Seriously, random tables are fine.

~Josh

[Mike Taylor]

Josh, while I understand where you're coming from with that, if you clap your hands over your ears and refuse to listen to what customers are asking you, all because you're worried they'll later claim you stole their ideas, you completely lose touch with the marketplace.

At some point, we all need to be big boys here. Very little that has been presented in this thread is fleshed out enough you'd be in any danger.

~Semi

Semisonic9, they're going on what has actually happened to Palladium in the past. People have threatened to sue because some conversation they had with Kevin (or Maryann or somebody else) at some convention umpteen billion years ago was similar to a product Palladium later published. It happens outside Palladium, too. They'd honestly rather not deal with that and I don't blame them.

It was bad enough for Jason Vey when he was accused of stealing material from this, that, or the other RPG book, despite having never even seen them.

[Mike Taylor]

I don't want to see more about other planes and such like the Astral or Dream Stream.

Having seen how CJ actually refined this in his later games, I couldn't disagree more.

What I don't want to see has largely been covered others. See below for specifics.

1. New and powerful globe-spanning factions.
2. New and powerful supernatural races (excepting the odd denizen of the Astral Plane or Dreamstream).
3. A Japan full of ninjas and mystic martial artists. If Japan is done, don't use this crutch or any other stereotype that pops up related to Japan. They've been done to death in other RPGs.
4. Unnecessary canonical crossovers with other Palladium titles. Exporting Nightbane to other games is fine, but importing things from other Palladium titles is very tricky and should be done carefully. The setting should be able to stand on its own.
5. Unnecessary silliness. Some humor is okay, as it helps lighten the rather grim world of Nightbane, but it should fit within overall context of the setting. There's some rather glaring examples of what NOT to do in several of the Rifters.

[BillionSix]

I just prefer to keep my games on Earth or to one or two other dimensions with actual real solid ground under our feet.

I agree. The Astral plane and the Dreamstream are interesting additions, and I like them a lot, but the primary focus should be earth and the Nightlands. That's the main idea of the game, right? The battle between those two worlds?

Brian

[acreRake]

No furries.

lol! Nice!

[Mike Taylor]

No furries.

Too late.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Josh could we say if we wold like to see something in a past rifter expained upon or no?

Yeah you can say that.

If it is already in print and thus owned by Palladium then there shouldn't be a problem.

~ Josh

[Rallan]

No power creep.

Nightbane's already their twinkiest SDC game. How would you even notice power creep?

[Rallan]

Random tables for anything at all...

Really? I LOVE random tables (I'm not being sarcastic) - I think they're half the fun of RPGs. But then, I also really dig going through the car wash. It's simple pleasures.

I prefer buying point-based traits myself. The more randomness there is in chargen, the harder it is for you to make the character you wanted to make without cheating.

[Rallan]

what I don't want? none of the more insane Suggestions sugested here: (Rallan, ninjabunny, and so on!)


about the only one I really Agree with : No new Secret Omnipotent Factions.

What I said was a inside joke. So please don't throw me into the pile with people that bash palladium.

I love that sort of with us or against us fanboy mentality. Oh noes! He doesn't like everything Palladium everd did, he's just a hater who came here to bash the product!

[Rallan]

what I don't want? none of the more insane Suggestions sugested here: (Rallan, ninjabunny, and so on!)


about the only one I really Agree with : No new Secret Omnipotent Factions.

What I said was a inside joke. So please don't throw me into the pile with people that bash palladium.

I love that sort of with us or against us fanboy mentality. Oh noes! He doesn't like everything Palladium everd did, he's just a hater who came here to bash the product!

Will I never see you say [i]"anything" [/i]nice about anything palladium does. In fact you pretty much posted on this thread you dislike half of what they have done. But i have to thank you. I am a Die hard FanBoy, one that is proud to defend palladium against all odds.

I hardly see why anyone would be proud of stubbornly stuffing their brain in a box under the bed and pretending that their favourite company can do no wrong. Every RPG on the market has flaws, and every RPG company in the business has a tendancy to repeat some flaws over and over, and I don't see the point in being an idiot and trying to convince myself otherwise just because I happen to like a particular game or company.

[Rallan]

I just hate Politically Incorrectness...it's sooo... Incorrect.

-HEY!!!, Birds are dying man!-

It's not about political incorrectness, it's just a trend in RPGs in general that's corny and dumb. Finding an asian character who's not Chinese or Japanese, and who's not a wise old sage or a martial arts expert, is like looking for a needle in a haystack. It's like RPGs are populated entirely by the casts of 70s and 80s action movies, where the only characters who aren't Americans are a handful of token characters doing whatever cool or badass thing is normally associated with that minority. Pretty much every RPG company in town is guilty of this schtick to a certain extent, even the ones like White Wolf that pride themselves on being progressive and "edgy". I ain't asking the writers to sit down and come up with some caring and sharing representative dealio or anything, but right now they're even more predictable than Hollywood when it comes to predictable casting decisions.

[NMI]

There is no reason for anyone here to refer to another poster as an idiot. Next time will result in warnings and possible bannings.


Now play nice!!!

[acreRake]

I'd prefer not to see any further into the future, the Present/Past would be much more useful for a game book.

[AlexM]

Try to keep from posting "Who Hates Who" lists.






Alex Marciniszyn

[Mike Taylor]

The Power Of CHEESE!!!!!

That would require Cheese to get away from playing World of Warcraft.

[Mike Taylor]

no good guy vampires. all vampires should be evil.

I never liked the idea of good "vampires" it kinda takes away from the whole vampire alure. I mean if you are a good "vampire" people (I'm mean hunters nd other things that kill vampires just for being vampires) are still going to hunt you down and kill you so their either running around hiding all the time or they are going to be killing every hunter that comes after them. So yeah Duck-foot I'm with you no good "vampires."

i would also add ... no more panty waisted sissy vampires, they do not need to be bad. they need to be nasty, horrific bad.

I don't think Palladium ever had "sissy" vampires. They aren't really set up that way. It's hard to be Lestat de Lioncourt when the most human-looking vamps (Masters) are just a chess piece for an alien mind.

[Warwolf]

I'd prefer not to see any further into the future, the Present/Past would be much more useful for a game book.

no more meta plots leading the setting would be very nice.

Keep in mind that the Nightbane setting would not be NEARLY as interesting without the measure of meta-plot that is included (i.e. the Dark Day invasion). There would also be no history or mythos to draw off of.

However, I will say that expanding the setting before the time line should be the priority.