TSAW 3.0 ... The REF and Third Robotech War.

[glitterboy2098]

Taffy's School of Armored Warfare
Section 3.0 : Robotech Expeditionary Forces and the Third Robotech War

Temporary Professor: 1st LT. Jonathan Isle, REF

This Section of the Course deals with the equipment of the Robotech Expeditionary Forces, Invid, Robotech Masters, and independant forces deployed in the Third Robotech War.


Submit application Y/N


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[Aramanthus]

LOL It's been a long time since I saw one of these!

[glitterboy2098]

since taffy lost interest due to the problems his last few had, i figured i could give it a shot. expect the first few to be setting the stage until i have a library of entries to post.

---------------------------

Greetings class.

i must apologize for the last minute change of professors, the Colonel is unable to make it at the moment, and will likely be absent for the near future. it seems that the Dean decided that the Colonel was due for retirement, and made the suggestion personally. don't worry, the casualties were light, and the Dean reconsidered his position, but Colonel Taffy will probably be barred from an official teaching position for the duration of this semester.

our focus in this class is the various mecha used during the third robotech war, also known by the more colorful moniker of 'the invid invasion'. primarily we will be focusing on the mecha of the Regis and the Robotech Expeditionary forces, but we will also be touching apon the unique mecha devised by various other factions prior to or during the war. in a departure from the Colonel's methods, i will also touch on the general use of older mecha by the resistance and warlords, as these played a large part in the conflict. these mecha have been covered in more detail by the Colonel in previous semesters, and i recommend that you look up the transcripts of those classes in the library for recognition purposes, as our time is limited and i will not be able to cover those older mecha in any depth.

but first, let me introduce myself. i am first Lieutenant Jonathan Isle, of the Robotech Expeditionary force. i was chosen to take over this class due to my personal experience with the subject matter. i was stranded on earth prior to the battle of reflex point, and experienced first hand much of the fighting you cadets only read in the history books.

-------------------------
OOC:
ground rules- like taffy, i am treating the RPG as law for this roleplay. at most, i will add my own touches to the material to address things left out in the RPG. if you cannot deal with that, please do not disrupt the thread by argueing with me. feel free to ask questions if you can do it in character.

this roleplay is set after reflex point, and will be ignoring Shadow Chronicles, as that is not part of the classic RPG. i beleive the normal TSAW's were set in 2058, so this one is too.

[taalismn]

"grzza mmmhggghhhb?"
"NO, not now! He hasn't said anything yet that requires our 'attention'.....When he does, we'll set the record straight with the proper perspective on events...Until then, we remain quiet!"
"zzmbb rrowwbbb!"
"And try to sit up straight...your slouch is drawing too much attention to us!"
(POV....A human Invid and a HIve Terminator sitting in the front row of chairs trying not to look conspicious...)

[Marcethus]

*sits in the mid rows of the class taking notes with on his comp as he sits in a crisp but black REF Uniform absent any markings other than his rank of Lt. Looking attentively around the classroom in the moments when the teacher is silent*

[Shawn Merrow]

*gets dragged into the class by some MP* "The Dean says he is supposed to be in your class or its back in the brig." *walks away from the MP and tries to take a seat while keeping some dignity*

[glitterboy2098]

*Lt Isle walks in, dressed CVR armor and carrying a Gallant with rifle stock attached. plunking the gallant and the armors helmet down on the desk, he surveyed the crowd.*


I see we don't have quite the numbers the Colonel drew, but hopefully enrollment will pick up after these first lectures.

Alright, today we are going to cover older mecha in use during the Third Robotech War. these mecha were rarer than the mecha of the Expeditionary Force primarily due to the losses suffered by the Armies of the Southern Cross and other UEG forces in the early days of the Invid conquest. when the Invid struck, the surviving Southern Cross and UEG forces attempted several Preemptive strikes against the still forming Invid outposts and hives, only to have the Invid strike back in massive numbers, razing entire population centers in response. most protoculture powered mecha and vehicles were destroyed practically as they powered up, the Invid homing in on the activity. ironically, had these units not attempted to fight off the 'evil ant overlords', the invid probably would have left them alone, and left the communities intact. this meant that most mecha and advanced war machines were destroyed or crippled, leaving very little. however, resistance groups and the various local warlords took whatever they could get. many mecha in use during the war were patched together from several destroyed machines, rebuilt to useable status.

most popular were VHT Hovertanks of the type used by the Southern Cross Alpha Tactical Armored Corps. the Hovertank was a good mix of firepower, mobility, and protection, despite being ground bound. their powerful main cannon was able to destroy most Invid Scouts and Troopers in one shot, while the EU-11 and tricannon secondary armaments were reasonably effective. what was most advantageous was the fact that southern cross hovertanks, like all Southern Cross and RDF mecha, used a dual protoculture/fusion powerplant, as opposed to the purely protoculture cell systems in REF mecha. as a result, their protoculture supply lasted substantially longer than the cell systems of the REF, and registered as a smaller signature on the Invids protoculture tracking and targeting systems. In addition, many of the Hovertanks produced in the later period of the War with the Robotech Masters were designed to operate entirely on fusion to conserve a limited supply of available protoculture, albeit with a reduction in performance.

The second most popular mecha was the Logan Veritech, for those who could acquire it. the Logan was much rarer than the Hovertank, due to its having been superseded in most roles by the Ajax fighter in the war with the masters. The Logan's small size and ability to take off and land vertically in both modes made it ideal for guerrilla operations, despite its protoculture requirement and lighter armament. although it was a rare skill in the war with the masters, most Logan Pilots in the war with the Invid quickly picked up an expertise with Vectoring in Forward Flight, often allowing the small fighter to outmaneuver the otherwise more agile Scouts. One resistance unit of note operated 5 Logans out of a series of improvised airfields in Canada. They racked up a respectable number of kills and assisted in knocking off at least one hive. although i find the report that they painted their mecha bright yellow with black and blue trim a bit unlikely.

the E.B.S.I.S. battloids were the third most popular over all, albeit in very limited supply outside Europe and Asia. Their Telemental Helmets made operations difficult, but their conventional power plants and simple, robust systems made them extremely easy to maintain. their conventional power plants also made them less of a target for the Invid. Of the three common Eastern Block battloids, only the Soldati saw significant use, the others, the Juggernaut and Recon-Destroyer, being too slow to survive most engagements with the agile Invid. Most of the Soviet mecha were the Export models, sporting weaker armor, less efficient controls, and reduced performance. little is known about the use of the soviet front line models in the war, but i would assume from their presumed specs that they'd be substantially more effective, particularly when piloted by E.B.S.I.S. regulars and supported properly with combined arms.

the Southern Cross Battloids were the most common of the older mecha, due to their pervasive presence in defense forces of every UEG territory. they were also one of the least popular, due to their weaker armaments and protection. most operators of these mecha did their best to improve the performance through field upgrades, often consisting of additional salvaged armor plate mounted on top the normal armor, bolting on additional external weapons, or swapping out the standard gun pods for the more powerful REF or Soviet weapons. These 'MacGyver' modifications rarely amounted to much, and usually degraded mobility to boot. the best way to survive fighting the invid in a southern cross battloid was to avoid getting into a battle in the first place. the second best was to avoid battling more than a handful at a time and to focus on precision attacks on the Invid's weak spots.

most other mecha were virtually unheard of. aside from a few VF-1 Valkyries and RDF Destroids on board the aging Prometheus Carriers of the Southern Cross Navy, which survived the initial invasion by staying submerged and avoiding the coasts, most of the surviving RDF mecha were destroyed early on defending cities and bases from Invid retaliation strikes. the VF-1 Valkyries were ill suited to fighting a Guerrilla war anyway, requiring far more maintenance and supplies than most resistance units could obtain. the RDF destroids, while powerful, were too large and slow to operate effectively. The Ajax fighters of the Southern Cross were mostly destroyed in space in the early fighting, or retreated with the space forces to bases elsewhere in the solar system, where they were were gradually retired as spare parts ran out, the squadrons switching over to the more common Alpha fighters supplied by the REF.

over all, the availability of mecha varied depending on global location. in Europe, Asia, and africa the Eastern Block mecha were fairly common compared to Southern Cross and REF gear, South America had a larger percentage of Southern Cross mecha due to the old Zentreadi Control Zone outposts, and North America had few mecha at all, due to the proximity of Reflex Point.



Most resistance groups made us of REF mecha, either brought in back in the late 2020's by the forces sent to assist against the masters, or salvaged from crashed Mars Division vessels. we'll start our discussion of these mecha tomorrow with the ever useful Cyclone.

[Aramanthus]

Enjoying the lecture from the middle rows of seats!

[Snuffy]

Slips into the back of the room and finds the closest chair quickly hoping no one notices his late arrival.

[Marcethus]

*continues taking notes as the Lt lectures*

[glitterboy2098]

any questions so far?

[Jefffar]

Yes, you mentioned a lack of EBSIS mecha being used in the Third War . . . was that locaiton specific? As I understand the EBSIS had signfigant contingents in both Africa and South America when the Invid arrived.

The South American groups splintered with some of their number turning into the domminant sympathizers faction, the Krugtach.

[taalismn]

Invid(Muttering): 'yes, those alternate power sources threw us off...How were we supposed to know there were other power source technologoes that could be almost as effective as the corrupted Flower of LIfe? The accursed Masters made such a big deal of converting their Empire to it! Accursed human ingenuity cost us much those days before we adapted!'

[glitterboy2098]

The Expeditionary Force Destroids will be covered in this class, as they are contemporary with the other mecha that played a large role in the conflict.
so you haven't missed anything yet.


as for the Eastern Block mecha, yes that is location specific. they were most common in europe and asia, where the Eastern Block was centered. in Africa and South America they were much rarer. they tended to be more survivable than the mecha of the UEG, but many of them were wiped out in the early invid retaliations. even without protoculture to key in on, an invid will attack anything shooting at it, and most of the Soviet gear was sent into battle by well meaning but uninformed commanders, to defend towns or attempt to wipe out hives. the mecha that remained were usually those that had been down for repairs or isolated from command. these groups helped form some of the earliest Resistance groups, but attrition and lack of spare parts wore down on the mecha's numbers. outside of Eastern Block territory, supplies of ammunition and spare parts for these units were always in short supply, and you can only repair so much using Bailing Wire and Duct Tape. in the western hemisphere, it was much easier to get UEG standardized components, which made operating Southern Cross and Expeditionary Force mecha that much easier. UEG components and parts made after the rain of death were intentionally built to be difficult to intergrate with Soviet components, as a hedge against reverse engineering by hostile powers. not that it helped much, and with the supply enviroment of the Third Robotech War, it was more a hindrance.

[glitterboy2098]

alright class, settle down.

We have a triple feature this time, and pay attention to this lecture, it might save your life.

The Cyclone Veritech Motorcycle was one of the most important mecha of the Third Robotech War, and remains such today. The Cyclone was the symbol of the resistance for some, for it was the most common human warmachine on earth. Even today, well after the war, thousands of cyclones from that period survive, and thousands more are produced every year in factories across human space. this makes the certainty of encountering one of these babies almost one hundred percent, so listen up!

The Cyclone's history dates far back, well before the Expeditionary Force was even created. The RDF saw the need for a small, well armed mecha unit for urban pacification and special ops, and instituted several programs to fill this gap in their TO&E. Most successful were the Micronian Power Armor and the Tornado Transformable Motorcycle. The Micronian PA was barely more than a high powered flight pack on the back of a suit of heavy body armor, armed with the most effective anti-mecha infantry weapons the RDF had. The Tornado is the obvious ancestor of the Cyclone, a motorcycle that would be recognizable to every cyclone rider today. However, its alternate mode was that of an armed jetpack, which increased the mobility of the soldier but was hardly practical. It seemed these two mecha would be doomed to a niche role, but some egghead in robotech research came up with the idea of a Tornado style cycle that could transform into a Micronian PA style mecha. we don't know exactly who came up with the idea to combine these two mecha into a single package, but who ever he or she was, they left a legacy that will outlive them. the first prototypes were bulky, inefficent things, taking the principle of combining the Micronian PA and Tornado a bit to literally. the technology for ultra compact protoculture power supplies and flight systems was in its infancy, which limited the performance in armor mode substantially. It was not until after the Expeditionary Force liberated Tyrol that the flaws were ironed out, using data gleaned from Robotech Masters technology. The first production run of cyclones lacked some of the features that are considered essentual today, like modular forearm hardpoints for weapons, the ability to attach 'saddlebag' storage units, or the conventional internal combustion engine backup power source. these systems were quickly implimented into subsequent production runs, and the hundred or so first production run mecha placed into mothballs or returned to the Robotech labs built on Tyrol to serve as testbeds for later improvements.

The Cyclone is a wonder of Robotechnology. it makes use of a compact Protoculture energy cell engine, with an internal combustion back up. the P-cell only lasts about 2 months, so keep an eye on your gauges if your doing a lot of flying or Riding at top speed for long stretches. the backup Internal combustion engine can run on just about any fuel, Gasoline, Diesel, Corn oil, Natural Gas, or even Methane. most freedom fighters used alchohol based fuels, as gasoline and deisel were hard to get. it was not an uncommon sight to see somebody pouring straight moonshine into their tank, although that isn't recommended becuse it tends to gunk up the motor. in cycle mode, it could reach a maximum speed of two hundred miles per hour, although that was only feasible on flat, open tracks. rarely were you able to travel fast without running into potholes or trees, or having to deal with rough or soft terrain. the Cyclone is built for off road use, but the basic design is based on a street cycle, so offroading can be rough. at least you wont have to worry about flat tires. cyclones, like most REF combat vehicles, make use of solid tires. these have armored layers that make them resistant to damage. in armor mode, the tires move to the back of the shoulders and sprout jet thrusters. these, combined with a thruster at the small of the back, allow limited flight and jet boosted jumps out to one hundred feet. this ability to leap out of the way is the cyclones best defense, experianced users can even dodge enemy fire without being distracted from their own attacks. but use of the thrusters requires the use of the protoculture cell's power, the ICE plant can't put out enough juice. this was a liability against the Invid. if the cyclone is hit, it can take some damage. its armor is a special composite, and the small size makes it stronger still, the armor plates less likely to be punctured or bent by enemy fire. attacks that do get through also strike the CVR-3 armor, which is required to transform. the armor has special interlocks to interface with the Cyclone, becoming the core of the powered armor.

using the cyclone is fairly easy. in cycle mode it operates almost exactly as a normal motorcycle. in armor mode the system detects your movements and amplifies them, making the use of the mecha almost second nature. the trick is to learn the controls for built in weapons, and the get used to the transformation sequence. many first time pilots freak out when the cycle folds around them like metal origami, and if you don't move correctly during the process, you can jam it and crash. once you get used to the process, it becomes second nature as well. in combat, use your manuverbility. a small target jumping and flying around is hard to hit, and you can move to places to make full use of the suit's weaponry. also remember that while your suit is tough, you are not superman. don't rely on the armor to save you. you'd be surprised how fast it gets ripped up on the battlefield.

ok, the first real production model was the VR-038, virtually identical to the Thirty Eight-Light still in use today. The VR-038-LT 'Thirty Eight Light' is the second run of that mecha, making use of advances in materials to drop almost 50% of the mass of the original without reducing the duriblity or performance. infact this resulted in a much more manuverable vehicle, able to move quicker and dodge faster than the other models. however, it is at a disadvantage in regards to protection and firepower than later models, carrying less armor and having only a pair of modular weapons mounts on the forearms. this is usually compensated for today by assigning it an RL-6 missile rifle, a bazooka like weapon firing REF standard Mini-missiles, of which it carries six in a removable magazine. this weapon is very potent and when combined with the modular weapons mounts and manuverbility can make for an effective special forces mecha. now, scuttlebut has it that Thirty Eight-Lights were primarily assigned to women, due to them being "simple enough for even a woman to use". this is pure Chuvinistic Krutz. the Thirty Eight was no simpler to use than the other models. the main reason it was assigned to more women then men was orginization. the Thirty Eight was eclipsed by the later models as a combat mecha, and saw its main use as the battlefield ride of Feild Scientists, Engineers, and other non-combat personell. as these ranks had more women then men in the REF, it gained a reputation as a weak 'female only' design. as it is, the faster reflexes of women, combined with the more agile Thirty Eight Light, makes such an assumption not only wrong, but downright dangerous.

The Thirty Eight was a good design, the Light even more so, but it was hardly ideal. for Special Forces missions it could handle sneaking around and recon, but it did not do as well in pitched battles. to deal with this flaw, the Robotech labs came up with the VR-041, or 'Saber'. using the basic chassis of the Thirty Eight Light, a pair of covered chest launchers were added, each carrying six REF standard mini-missiles, for a total of twelve. these were fire linked into a single weapon system to simplify fire control. because these launchers, when the flip up covers are open, expose all twelve missiles, it can fire any combination of missiles in volleys of up to all twelve. such a volley can obliterate most enemy mecha, and can even endanger most human destroids and veritechs. the Saber utilizes a pair of Close Assualt Defense Systems, or CADS. these are large buckler style forearm shields, each containing a retractable blade. the blades are sheathed in a high frequency energy feild when deployed, allowing them to cut through almost anything, from trees and concrete to armor. the energy feild extends to cover the bucklers as well, making them almost indestructable. in close combat, a Saber can fillet an enemy, and the enemy very rarely can land a damaging blow. the CADS were designed to work with the Saber, and while they can be mounted on other models with some adjustment, their size and mass unbalances the mecha. the Saber is mostly assigned to Special ops forces, units that operate well behind enemy lines. there the high firepower and close combat ability make it a unit to be feared. in the resistance however, there were few pilots who could make proper use of the blades in close combat, so it was primarily put to use as fire support or heavy assualt, making use of its missile firepower to best effect.

the last model is the VR-052, or 'Battler'. this model was designed concurrently with the Saber, but for a totally different role. the Expeditionary Force needed a front line mecha, to equip the ground forces with something to counter the mecha opponents they usually faced. there was also a plan to create a 'survival' cyclone, that could be included in every Destroid and Veritech in the event the pilot had to abandon their mecha. rather than waste resources building two different designs, the Labs combined the requirements into a single unit. the Battler is a potent combatant. each forearm has a modular weapons mount, and chest missile launchers of the same design as the Saber were included. these missile launchers, although the same model, make use of a different cover design, instead of opening clamshell style, a hatch on the top of the chest opens to reveal the missiles. this was necissary to reduce the profile of the unit. the forearm weapons are usually one of two configurations, although it can make use of any of the forearm modules. Survival configurations make use of a pair of GR-97 missile packs. the GR-97 is a pair of single shot tube launchers containing the Plasma Mini-missile, a special missile designed for use with the GR-97's. The powerful warhead and long range of these missiles, combined with the simple point and shoot aiming system, made them very effective in fighting the invid, and are excellent anti-tank and mecha weapons even today. The ship defense configuration makes use of the EP-40 Pulse Beam Cannon, a particle cannon firing short blasts of protons, which was less likely to puncture the hull of a starship than missiles. the EP-40 had a high power useage, and could not draw sufficent enegy from the power supply of the cyclone due to the design of the weapons mounts, nessecitating the use of a Protoculture Clip. the EP-40 has an effective range of of only two thousand feet, but does signifigant damage, so watch yourself when you see one. and some users added a GR-97 on the other arm, so don't rely on getting out of it's area of coverage. the Infantry config is the same as the Survival configuration, but the rider is usually equipped with an EP-37 Beam Cannon, an oversized energy rifle with firepower close to that of a Veritechs gunpod. this weapon was popular when the resistance could get it, but the unique Protoculture energy clip required was hard to come by and difficult to recharge, so few saw use. the Battler is the most common cyclone produced, and for good reason. its compliment of weapons options and built in missiles made it almost as versitile as the alpha fighter. that the REF produced thousands of them to equip every mecha with also made them easy to come by, even on earth. i'm afraid far too many mecha crashed to earth after the reclimation fleet attempts, and many pilots didn't survive to make use of their Battlers. so any resistance group or warlord who found a veritech or crashed ship could easily obtain mostly intact Battlers for use.

now, don't take my descriptions of the configurations as gospel. because the weapons mounts are modular, any combination of Model, forearm modules, and mecha-rifles is possible. the Resistance didn't have REF guidlines to follow, so they used what they obtained, which often resulted in very eclectic weapon mixes. the bandits and independant nations today that make use of the cyclone have followed in these footsteps, devising new combinations to fill different roles. so be prepared, you could run into a VR-038-LT packing an EP-37 and GR-97's, or a Battler carting a RL-6.

hopefully this lecture will keep you alive in the certain event you encounter these units.

[Marcethus]

*Taking notes furiously as he listens intently.* "Uh sir, I have a question" *raises his hand* "Is it theoretically possible to attach the Shadow Cloaking system to the Cyclone?"

[glitterboy2098]

i'm just a pilot, not a Bio-maintenece engineer or one of the eggheads at the robotech labs, but i would personally say it is probably not possible at the moment.

frankly however, there is little point. cyclones already have plenty of stealth options available to them. they can run on the ICE, making them invisible to invid. they operate close to the ground, where radar does not work as effectively, allowing them to hide in ground clutter. a trained user can even sneak around and prowl in armor mode, allowing them to move almost silently. you can paint cyclones in disruption camoflauge to help it blend into the background, and you can shroud it in camo netting for the same purpose.

in fact, Cyclone Riders and Military Specialists are trained to do just that in order to perform their special ops missions. the one place you can't sneak around in is an invid hive, and frankly, a shadow device wouldn't help you there, the invid would still have seen you and attacked. they are very territorial about their hives.

[Marcethus]

*nods as he takes down notes.* "Ah ok well I had heard they had something like that in the planning stages or some other stealth option that would give it more stealth options."

[taalismn]

UEG components and parts made after the rain of death were intentionally built to be difficult to intergrate with Soviet components, as a hedge against reverse engineering by hostile powers. not that it helped much, and with the supply enviroment of the Third Robotech War, it was more a hindrance.

"Hah! Human factionalism again worked in our favor there! Between populations willing to sell out their own warrior-caste and their tribal paranoia about others stealing their technology, it's amazing the Humans were able to mount any sort of resistance!"

[Alpha 11]

Nice! Like this!

[Aramanthus]

"Paying close attention in class. Checking mini-recorder to see how much free space is left on the recording disc.

[taalismn]

"Pah..humans and their recording media....Invid eidetic memory systems last longer and don't need batteries....or suffer from power surges..."

[Alpha 11]

"Pah..humans and their recording media....Invid eidetic memory systems last longer and don't need batteries....or suffer from power surges..."

[taalismn]

"Pah..humans and their recording media....Invid eidetic memory systems last longer and don't need batteries....or suffer from power surges..."

"Grzzrommmrooommm?"
"No, I don't know why the silly human is laughing....they tend to lose mental coherence over the smallest things...Now pay attention; the analyst-caste Thinker is going to resume..."

[Snuffy]

Starts grinding teeth when I notice Slugs in the front row.

"Lt Isle, Sir. Have the Invid changed their tactics since the introduction to the new Cyclones? And how should we deal with the Invid now?" Sneering at the front row.

[glitterboy2098]

Invid tactics haven't changed much since we first encountered them. their immediate response is usually to increase the numbers of mecha patrolling.

as you'll find later when i cover the invid mecha, the old adage "Quantity has a Quality all of its own" is true in the case of the invid.

the invid appear to focus more on development of new mecha types than substantial changes in combat methods, probably the result of the lower mental abilities of their most common forms.


as for dealing with them today, should they be encountered *eyes the Enforcer in the front row*, proceed with caution and verify your target before engaging, some of the higher forms have been known to assist outsiders against their own people, as seen with the Simulagents of the regis.


(OOC: Taalism, i assume your simulagent is supposed to be present in some official manner?)

[Aramanthus]

:::While paying attention to the lecter, I place a protoculture white noise generator very quietly on the back of the Invid's chair and then return to my chair.:::

[taalismn]

(OOC: Taalism, i assume your simulagent is supposed to be present in some official manner?)

Color commentary 'from the other side of the gunsights' mostly....
'Peanut Gallery' gag actually....
But I can mellow the two into Free Thinkers from one of the Free Sulagi enclaves left on Earth...
Just beware the possibility of someone coming in to ask 'whoever owns the RCB outside to please move it...you're blocking the service enterance..."

[taalismn]

Invid tactics haven't changed much since we first encountered them. their immediate response is usually to increase the numbers of mecha patrolling.

as you'll find later when i cover the invid mecha, the old adage "Quantity has a Quality all of its own" is true in the case of the invid.

the invid appear to focus more on development of new mecha types than substantial changes in combat methods, probably the result of the lower mental abilities of their most common forms.

"Well, we had the Zentraedi and the Robotech Masters for role-models in mechanized combat, so what did you expect? ...Hordes of ablative warriors churned out of their factories and cloning tanks...But the human is right; we tended to evolve our physical forms faster than our tactics...And ironically, faster than the 'technologically superior' Masters could develop new mecha, it turns out..."

[Aramanthus]

:::taking notes on what the Major just confirmed, while watching the Invid struggle to listen to the discussion with the white noise generator on his back.:::

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

::wanders by the class and peers in::

*mutters under his breath* 'God, why hasn't this school gotten the updated information yet? They're still teaching this outdated nonsense from 20 years ago.'

::sighs::

'Bureaucracy'

::moves on to give his lecture on The Army of the Southern Cross::

[glitterboy2098]

::wanders by the class and peers in::

*mutters under his breath* 'God, why hasn't this school gotten the updated information yet? They're still teaching this outdated nonsense from 20 years ago.'

::sighs::

'Bureaucracy'

::moves on to give his lecture on The Army of the Southern Cross::

OOC:

ground rules- like taffy, i am treating the RPG as law for this roleplay. at most, i will add my own touches to the material to address things left out in the RPG. if you cannot deal with that, please do not disrupt the thread by argueing with me. feel free to ask questions if you can do it in character.

until the new RPG comes out, there is no new information to use. anything done by harmony gold or others outside the RPG is not valid until it gets printed in a new RPG, at which point we will start a new series of TSAW threads to cover it, as a new and unrelated setting.

consider this as the "Star fleet Battles" of Robotech. the source material may have left it behind and been retconned, but the classic RPG still stands, alone if need be.

[taalismn]

"...ah...'shadow devices'....Very effective if you don't know something is there, but once you SUSPECT, and begin using other sensor-types....(idly leans back in his chair, draping an arm over its back..)...The Regis was able to visually spot the 'Shadowfighters' once she suspected the spoor of our enemies...(prys the Protocuture white noise generator off the chair back, drops it to the floor, and bootheel-grinds it into unfunctionality...the Enforcer seems to suddenly look a bit more alert)...Once the word cut out to her Children of the deception, they went to visuals...maybe not enough to spot them at the long range the Human 'missileboats' preferred to fight at, but effective enough in close quarters...I believe the pre-SDF humans had a similar experience with a 'stealth bomber; that could be picked up on cruder weather watch radars....
But knowing what ELSE the presence of Shadow technology portended was enough to truly scare the Regis... The psychological effect was arguably more effective than the actual tactical importance of it as a weapon. "

[taalismn]

"The psychological effect was arguably more effective than the actual tactical importance of it as a weapon. "

Something we humans learned a long time ago my Invid friend is that a psychological advantage at times is even more important than a numbers or technological advantage.

"Ah yes, the Zentraedi most famously...the Robotech Masters incidentally....But for the Invid, as I recall a Human analyst reporting to the Admirals that 'Invid couldn't be bribed with money, sex, or baseball cards' given what was known of our physiology from fighting the Regent's forces...and the development of the Stage Fives was not known to the REF...Irony and fortune was on the REF's side when they rolled out the brute force weapons of Shadowtech...and incidentally revealed the one thing that would be..and I say this unfamiliar Human term with emphasis... GUARANTEED... to make the Regis lose her composure...Only, had Humanity actually used their weapons, they wouldn't have gotten their planet back...."

[taalismn]

"..and neither would myself. But we get ahead of ourselves, don't we? I believe the subject of the late conflict between the Humans and the Invid...a conflict some would say was not resolved, merely interrupted...which may perhaps shed some light on the next conflict...with the Haydonites...Specifically what strategies Humanity learned and equipped for when fighting us, and will likely carry against THEM...."Today's wars are fought with tomorrow's weapons and yesterday's strategies", no?"

[Aramanthus]

:::Continuing to record the conversation while taking a lot of notes on the subject at hand.:::

[Shawn Merrow]

*raises hand watches the MP stare at him.* "Lt. Brown, I was an Alpha pilot with the REF. I was wondering what was the major supply problems with Earth based forces during the occupation? Its not like missiles grow on trees."

[The Artist Formerly]

Invid tactics haven't changed much since we first encountered them. their immediate response is usually to increase the numbers of mecha patrolling.

as you'll find later when i cover the invid mecha, the old adage "Quantity has a Quality all of its own" is true in the case of the invid.

the invid appear to focus more on development of new mecha types than substantial changes in combat methods, probably the result of the lower mental abilities of their most common forms.


as for dealing with them today, should they be encountered *eyes the Enforcer in the front row*, proceed with caution and verify your target before engaging, some of the higher forms have been known to assist outsiders against their own people, as seen with the Simulagents of the regis.

*Grizzald old Tech Sargent from the back of the class.*
Uh, Lieutenant, begging your pardon sir. Tech Sargent Mik..er, Herald Mc...uh, Taffen...stein. Yeah that's the ticket, Sargent Mik-Herald Mctaffenstein. My family is Jewish by way of Ireland. I think I was assigned this class by accident, uh, I was supposed be undergoing sensitivity training classes. But military bureacy being what it is it was either this or dig latrines with the recruits.

Any way sir, as I recall it, I spent alot of time patching up holes in our side's armor, on both sides of the galaxy because the Invid were so devious and very adaptive in their tactics. While they may have based their table of orginization on a swarm mentality, they were quick to adapt to their enviroment. Stilt hives gave them an advantage over Zentraedi ground pounders and sledless Bioroids by limiting access as well as improving vantage points from which to maximize the use of their sensors, devices that work on a radius effect rather then a forward arc or cone. Further after discovering the vulnerablities of the stilts they added point defense in the form of their troopers and shock troopers buried in the ground near the stilts.

In space, the debris rings such as type we find making up Saturn's rings or the old mech scrap yards the Zendraedi left us at the end of the first war, they'd go dead and wait for our fly boys to zoom by and open up on them from behind.

In the thick jungles of Asia and the rain forests of South America, they would pick a spot from the air, land veritically, leaving almost no trace of their location and wait for a target to wander by.

Both the Regent and Regis developed specialized mecha disigned to go after their enemies and adapt to their fighting style. The Regent's Inorganic were very adept at tearing Zents and Bioroids apart while we got to contend with Pincers and RCBs. And I'm sure we all know what a nightmare a Pincer can be when it want's to mess up the new paint job on your Raider-X. Or... uh, that's what I've heard.

Additionally if you concider the very nature of the genesis pits, this would show, or at least I would I think, sir, evidence of how adaptable the Invid were.

Humbly sir, I would suggest that what we often confused for stupidity or tactical inflexibility was really lack of context by which to judge these things they were seeing, limiting their ability to adapt and react.

Uh, sorry, sir, I'll shut up now.

[Protoculture]

Sir, had it escaped your attention that indeed the later model Cyclones sported Shadow stealth system?

Most notably used by the ill-fated Jupiter Reconnaissance Advance Division, it seems a majority of Battler & Bartley models sported these systems.

If I'm not mistaken, several newly advanced Spec-For Cycs, most notably the Shadow-equipped VR-101P Shadow Dancer were used in infiltrating the Reflex Point.

[glitterboy2098]

(OOC: i'm not including shadow chronicles at the moment, as it is not yet part of the RPG. so the haydonites, 'shadow cyclones' and the like aren't a part of this universe just yet. i won't 'correct' you guys, but just a heads up.)

[Aramanthus]

:::Listening in this conversation, noting the speakers. Making sure notes are up to date. (Not including temporal anomalies which can't be added at this time officially.)

[taalismn]

The colonel...err I mean Sergeant *wink, wink nudge, nudge* brings up a valid point. While by human standards they may not of been seen as adaptable they were very good at subtle changes that most people wouldn't readily of noticed.

"Ah...there's hope for you Humans after all...Though I must admitt, as hidebound as the grand strategies were(really, THREE fleets staging what amounted to frontal assualts?!), individual human units showed an almost demonic flexibility in tactics and the most irritating ability to improvize weaponry from the unlikeliest of resources...like exploding hydroelectric dams and landslides..."

[Protoculture]

(OOC: i'm not including shadow chronicles at the moment, as it is not yet part of the RPG. so the haydonites, 'shadow cyclones' and the like aren't a part of this universe just yet. i won't 'correct' you guys, but just a heads up.)

::Actually, the Jupiter's Division Cyclones (Battler series mostly) sported dark bluish / black greyish colors (corresponds with Shadow Stealth System) as evidenced in the TV series, where Sue Graham's units got screwed royally by the Invid, Shadow tech notwithstanding. As for VR-101P Shadow Dancer, that mecha appeared in RT: Invasion console game, specially designed for SpecFor units infiltrating Reflex Point. Both said Stealth Cycs (Jupiter Div.'s Battlers & occasional Bartleys, plus VR-101P) do not appear in Shadow Chronicles whatsoever, so stealth Cycs have merit to be included in the discussion. ::

Well, Sir, you have yet to answer my question.

[Aramanthus]

INteresting. I'll have to make sure I seperate my notes on those other units from the alternate future.

[jedi078]

OOC: Again this discussion is just on things seen in the original RPG. They weren't seen in it hence for this thread I believe as glitterboy has stated they don't exist.

OOC: BUT they do exist, and we KNOW the RPG as written has flaws. So why don't you face the truth in these "School of Armored Warfare" threads and use information as seen on screen in the anime?

It would be like talking about previous wars in RL history without using the technology of today to asses the battles, such as what we see on History Channels "Dog Fights," "Lost Evidence," and "Shootout."

That's my two cents.

[glitterboy2098]

actually it would be more like doing a special on the importance of heavier than air aircraft in the american civil war.

what is in the RPG is mostly what is in the Show. the show has no shadow cyclones. the console game (one of my favorites, by the way) is not part of the show, nor is it part of HG's canon, new or old. and it post dates the RPG, so the RPG has no such animals either.

like debating the use of aircraft in the civil war, i see no point to covering things in robotech that do not exist in the source material in use.



on a related note, i'm working on the next entry, the alpha, i'm just having to juggle classes, work, and rifter articles.

[taalismn]

"Let the human expound on what he DOES know...and as for the Stealth Cyclones? At best they were a novelty, introduced late in the war, and never in significant numbers to make a difference...The average human trooper, and Invid drone for that matter, rarely saw them or even heard of them, as almost all of the battles and campaigns were waged with the more conventional and well-documented weapons....
After all, I have yet to hear any mention in this discussion of the dozens, if not hundreds, of experimental or adhoc 'one-offs' deployed by the humans...experimental mecha remaining from the previous Robotech conflicts, the types thrown into battle to be blooded by the REF, the so-called 'Stingers' of the Resistance and surviving Malcontent units...or of the dozens of new-caste and experimental mecha-shells created by my own people that were thrown into the conflict...
Continue...I will hear what ypu have to say of the Alpha...the second-most feared and hated of Human warmachines of the REF campaigns."

[Aramanthus]

"Yes, please sir! Please continue with your lecture! :::Looking at an apparently normal watch. Then looking over at the area where the unobserved bespectacled man is sitting.:::

[Snuffy]

"Lt Isle, Sir. Have there been any improvements on the Gallant Rifle? Any speculation on a replacement rifle in the works?" Keep glancing between the Gallant on the desk and the slugs in the first row......wondering if it is actually loaded.

[Aramanthus]

:::Again back to taking notes. Still watching out of the corner of my eye the bespectacled ordinary guy.:::