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sure why not? They don't run to the bone.

Atlantis, p. 85:

Removing layers of skin does not work as the tattoos are linked to the potential psychic energy and essence of the individual and only reappear.

EPIC wrote:could you use a belt-sander to remove a magic tattoo?

No.

Magic tattoos arn't just on the skin. they're bound to your very essence. it says in atlantis even if you tottally remove the skin, the flesh and tattoo will reappear.

Shows what I know when I don't look things up

It would require psychic surgery... not the healing psi-power, but essentially redrawing the person's aura on a permanent basis, in such a way as to exclude the tattoo.

Mark Hall wrote:It would require psychic surgery... not the healing psi-power, but essentially redrawing the person's aura on a permanent basis, in such a way as to exclude the tattoo.

Psychic Sugury has no such power...

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:It would require psychic surgery... not the healing psi-power, but essentially redrawing the person's aura on a permanent basis, in such a way as to exclude the tattoo.

Psychic Sugury has no such power...

I know. That's why I said it didn't.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:It would require psychic surgery... not the healing psi-power, but essentially redrawing the person's aura on a permanent basis, in such a way as to exclude the tattoo.

Psychic Sugury has no such power...

I know. That's why I said it didn't.

So.... is this procedure described in a book (psyscape is my first guess), Mark?

asajosh wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:It would require psychic surgery... not the healing psi-power, but essentially redrawing the person's aura on a permanent basis, in such a way as to exclude the tattoo.

Psychic Sugury has no such power...

I know. That's why I said it didn't.

So.... is this procedure described in a book (psyscape is my first guess), Mark?

No, but given what's said about the requirements, that's what I think would be necessary. You'd have to remove the tattoo while simultaneously excising the tattoo from their aura, which I doubt would be easy.

Mark Hall wrote:

asajosh wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:It would require psychic surgery... not the healing psi-power, but essentially redrawing the person's aura on a permanent basis, in such a way as to exclude the tattoo.

Psychic Sugury has no such power...

I know. That's why I said it didn't.

So.... is this procedure described in a book (psyscape is my first guess), Mark?

No, but given what's said about the requirements, that's what I think would be necessary. You'd have to remove the tattoo while simultaneously excising the tattoo from their aura, which I doubt would be easy.

Ah. missed that about the power.


But even then....WTH? it's not bound to their aura at all, but their essence. there's a difference.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Ah. missed that about the power.


But even then....WTH? it's not bound to their aura at all, but their essence. there's a difference.

What else is their aura? It tells you all of the relevant psychic (as in PPE, not just little psionic) information about them, surrounds a person constantly when their consciousness is inhabiting their body...

A better question might be "What do you think it's the aura OF?"

odd side question.....would it be possible for a Fleshsculpter to affect a Magic Tattoo?

Damian Magecraft wrote:odd side question.....would it be possible for a Fleshsculpter to affect a Magic Tattoo?

I've been reading about Fleshsculpters, and I'd have to say no. If destroying the flesh the tattoo is drawn on doesn't affect it (belt sander above), I don't think that reshaping the flesh would.

hmmm if a magic tatto is part of a persons aura or essence then when you astral travel does it go with you.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Ah. missed that about the power.


But even then....WTH? it's not bound to their aura at all, but their essence. there's a difference.

What else is their aura? It tells you all of the relevant psychic (as in PPE, not just little psionic) information about them, surrounds a person constantly when their consciousness is inhabiting their body...

A better question might be "What do you think it's the aura OF?"

essense. but that's just it, the visual part. changing the aura won't change your essence.

Otherwise, alter aura could not only git rid of tattoos but would actually change your level, give or take away magic or psionic powers, ect....

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Otherwise, alter aura could not only git rid of tattoos but would actually change your level, give or take away magic or psionic powers, ect....

alter aura cant do that....but the spell "someone makes them" can....

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Otherwise, alter aura could not only git rid of tattoos but would actually change your level, give or take away magic or psionic powers, ect....

alter aura cant do that....but the spell "someone makes them" can....

Nope. it can theoretically let you teach someone magic spells the caster knows, but it can't teach psionics, they can't be taught. nor can it grant ot deny PPE amounts.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Otherwise, alter aura could not only git rid of tattoos but would actually change your level, give or take away magic or psionic powers, ect....

alter aura cant do that....but the spell "someone makes them" can....

Nope. it can theoretically let you teach someone magic spells the caster knows, but it can't teach psionics, they can't be taught. nor can it grant ot deny PPE amounts.

i recall a discussion on the borads about the spell...i thought the decision had been reached that it could indeed take away and grant psi....no biggie to me just making a bit of a joke anyway....

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Damian Magecraft wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Otherwise, alter aura could not only git rid of tattoos but would actually change your level, give or take away magic or psionic powers, ect....

alter aura cant do that....but the spell "someone makes them" can....

Nope. it can theoretically let you teach someone magic spells the caster knows, but it can't teach psionics, they can't be taught. nor can it grant ot deny PPE amounts.

i recall a discussion on the borads about the spell...i thought the decision had been reached that it could indeed take away and grant psi....no biggie to me just making a bit of a joke anyway....

Such a conversation here may well have taken place.

Dosn't mean they were right.

~Nekira

Yea, if taking away the flesh won't affect a tattoo, what happens when you cut off their arm? Does the tattoo migrate to another part of their body? If it doesn't, then what happens to it?

verdilak wrote:Yea, if taking away the flesh won't affect a tattoo, what happens when you cut off their arm? Does the tattoo migrate to another part of their body? If it doesn't, then what happens to it?

as was mentioned earlier in the thread, completely removing the limb is the only way to remove the tattoo.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

verdilak wrote:Yea, if taking away the flesh won't affect a tattoo, what happens when you cut off their arm? Does the tattoo migrate to another part of their body? If it doesn't, then what happens to it?

as was mentioned earlier in the thread, completely removing the limb is the only way to remove the tattoo.

Umm.. where in the books does it say that?

And if removing the limb works, then removing all the skin and flesh in the one spot the tattoo is, all the way down to the bone, should work also.

If the tattoo weren't bound to the essence of the being rather than the flesh, yes sanding down to the bone would work nicely. According to p85 of Atlantis removal of the tattoo is impossible without removing the whole limb.

Technically, I think removing all the skin and muscle from a limb, and failing to regenerate the flesh, would count as "removing the limb" for these purposes. Otherwise, you get a little silly...

"Gee, we scraped all the flesh off his arm, cauterized the arteries, and left him with only sanded bone protruding from his shoulder socket... but damn me if he didn't still have that tattoo!"

Mark Hall wrote:Technically, I think removing all the skin and muscle from a limb, and failing to regenerate the flesh, would count as "removing the limb" for these purposes. Otherwise, you get a little silly...

"Gee, we scraped all the flesh off his arm, cauterized the arteries, and left him with only sanded bone protruding from his shoulder socket... but damn me if he didn't still have that tattoo!"

Yea, thats where it always got me, unless the tattoo was bound to the bone. Eh, once of those strange writeups where the players have a way too active of an imagination. Sucks that we all try to think outside the box way too often

Ok, let me go a little bit mystic for a bit.

Everyone has a psychic essence, which is visible to psychics as their aura, and is roughly detectable, technologically, as a faint EM field. Even when you get your arm removed, you still have that arm in your aura; do some reading about Kirlian photography. People who have lost limbs will still feel the limb, even years later after they've adjusted to not having it; that's the influence of their aura.

So, you get this mystical tattoo inscribed in your upper arm. It's not just in the skin, but the magical process of tattooing also inscribes it onto your aura. If you get your arm blown off and regenerated, this tattoo remains in your aura; it will reappear due to the magic used to scribe it. If you get it blown off and replaced cybernetically, then it's not going to partake of your aura, because it's a piece of dead metal or foreign (but still acceptable) tissue. Shadowrun had a need bit of fluff in one of their cyber books about people with cyberlimbs sometimes thinking their limbs were in one place and looking over and seeing them somewhere else... never when they were doing anything with them, but just when their mind wasn't on them... that's based on real experiences.

Mark Hall wrote:Ok, let me go a little bit mystic for a bit.

Everyone has a psychic essence, which is visible to psychics as their aura, and is roughly detectable, technologically, as a faint EM field. Even when you get your arm removed, you still have that arm in your aura; do some reading about Kirlian photography. People who have lost limbs will still feel the limb, even years later after they've adjusted to not having it; that's the influence of their aura.

So, you get this mystical tattoo inscribed in your upper arm. It's not just in the skin, but the magical process of tattooing also inscribes it onto your aura. If you get your arm blown off and regenerated, this tattoo remains in your aura; it will reappear due to the magic used to scribe it. If you get it blown off and replaced cybernetically, then it's not going to partake of your aura, because it's a piece of dead metal or foreign (but still acceptable) tissue. Shadowrun had a need bit of fluff in one of their cyber books about people with cyberlimbs sometimes thinking their limbs were in one place and looking over and seeing them somewhere else... never when they were doing anything with them, but just when their mind wasn't on them... that's based on real experiences.

There is one problem with your anology. If you have your arm, which was blown off, replaced with a hunk of metal, you aura will stay the same, as seen in Kirilian pictures where someone was wearing a fake limb or titanium legs. So, by your 'mystic' anology, it doesnt fit, because the tattoo would still be inscribed upon the aura, no matter what, if the arm is gone, it's still there on the aura, if you replace the arm with a cybernetic one, it's still there on the aura, since you aura doesnt change if you lose a limb, nor would your aura change when you attach a cybernetic limb.

verdilak wrote:There is one problem with your anology. If you have your arm, which was blown off, replaced with a hunk of metal, you aura will stay the same, as seen in Kirilian pictures where someone was wearing a fake limb or titanium legs. So, by your 'mystic' anology, it doesnt fit, because the tattoo would still be inscribed upon the aura, no matter what, if the arm is gone, it's still there on the aura, if you replace the arm with a cybernetic one, it's still there on the aura, since you aura doesnt change if you lose a limb, nor would your aura change when you attach a cybernetic limb.

There's no problem there, verdilak. The magic of tattooing needs the physical component (i.e. the tattooed flesh) as well as the magical component (i.e. the essence tag). Sure, you've still got a tattoo there... as scar on your aura... but it has less effect when you don't have the physical component to back it up.

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:There is one problem with your anology. If you have your arm, which was blown off, replaced with a hunk of metal, you aura will stay the same, as seen in Kirilian pictures where someone was wearing a fake limb or titanium legs. So, by your 'mystic' anology, it doesnt fit, because the tattoo would still be inscribed upon the aura, no matter what, if the arm is gone, it's still there on the aura, if you replace the arm with a cybernetic one, it's still there on the aura, since you aura doesnt change if you lose a limb, nor would your aura change when you attach a cybernetic limb.

There's no problem there, verdilak. The magic of tattooing needs the physical component (i.e. the tattooed flesh) as well as the magical component (i.e. the essence tag). Sure, you've still got a tattoo there... as scar on your aura... but it has less effect when you don't have the physical component to back it up.

I get that, but without the flesh.....

Do you see where I am going? Even if you were to heal that flesh, the tatto will not be there, unless you are saying that it will be there no matter what, since it is also on the aura, though if it is on the aura, and people can get phantom pains, then it stands to reason that even without the hand or limb, the tatto can still be reached, maybe by expending twice the needed PPE, but it should be accessible if it's on the aura.

verdilak wrote:I get that, but without the flesh.....

Do you see where I am going? Even if you were to heal that flesh, the tatto will not be there, unless you are saying that it will be there no matter what, since it is also on the aura, though if it is on the aura, and people can get phantom pains, then it stands to reason that even without the hand or limb, the tatto can still be reached, maybe by expending twice the needed PPE, but it should be accessible if it's on the aura.

If you regenerate the person's own flesh, then the tattoo will reappear on its own... that's an aspect of it being so deeply inscribed on a person that you can't get rid of it, save by getting rid of the physical component completely.

I don't think it's going to just pop in there, but it will slowly fade into appearance.

That's a lot of what I find myself doing with Palladium... taking the RAW, and making it into something that makes some kind of sense, as opposed to a dictum.

Tattoo magic needs the tattoo, which is tattooed directly onto your essence and your flesh. If you dont have the essence, or the flesh, then half the magic is missing. If its on your essense, why do you need the physical tattoo? Because its a component. Just like you actually need to draw a summoning circle even if you can picture it perfectly in your mind. Just like you need a sacrifice for circles even if you've got plenty of ppe.

If nothing else, you can't discount Magic rule #1: Belief. It is easy to believe in a picture that is part of you. It is hard to believe in a phantom magic inscribed on "essence", especially if your mind has already tied the magic with the picture, and the picture has been removed body-part and all.