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walross1978 wrote:I was reading the spell last night and made me question how good is the spell if people fail the save which is at -4 to save.

Will people using heat sensors be affected by the spell?

Yes, it fools the sensors as well

Does the mirror image actually have a physical substance?

No, it's an illusion

Will blind woman warriors be affected?

Yes, it fools ALL types of senses

Just wondering if this is just a visional thing or there is a physical element to it?

No physical element, it simply fools every kind of sense you can name.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

walross1978 wrote:I was reading the spell last night and made me question how good is the spell if people fail the save which is at -4 to save.

Will people using heat sensors be affected by the spell?

Yes, it fools the sensors as well

Will blind woman warriors be affected?

Yes, it fools ALL types of senses

I disagree, Nekira. It's a low-level, low-power spell; it's not until you get to Invisibility: Superior that you're fooling heat sensors, and the BWW work, in part, on a personalized radar sense... an illusion, without substance, wouldn't bounce back the carrier waves. Your ruling seems to assume a lot of power for a fairly simple spell.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

walross1978 wrote:I was reading the spell last night and made me question how good is the spell if people fail the save which is at -4 to save.

Will people using heat sensors be affected by the spell?

Yes, it fools the sensors as well

Will blind woman warriors be affected?

Yes, it fools ALL types of senses

I disagree, Nekira. It's a low-level, low-power spell; it's not until you get to Invisibility: Superior that you're fooling heat sensors, and the BWW work, in part, on a personalized radar sense... an illusion, without substance, wouldn't bounce back the carrier waves. Your ruling seems to assume a lot of power for a fairly simple spell.

*shudders at misuse of "carrier waves"*

The spell doesn't have to "bounce back" anything; As an illusion it simply makes the target believe there's something there. However, Blind Warrior Women are fairly resistant to magic, so the spell is still a bit risky.

I'm not so sure about sensor devices, but I'd tend to think they would not be affected (other than cybernetic/bionic sense organs).

Tinker Dragoon wrote:The spell doesn't have to "bounce back" anything; As an illusion it simply makes the target believe there's something there. However, Blind Warrior Women are fairly resistant to magic, so the spell is still a bit risky.

It's not existing in the character's mind, but in physical reality... that's why you can dispel it by touching it with iron. If it worked by making people believe things, you'd have to pierce your head with iron to get rid of them. Thus, the radar sense goes out, and only finds the things that have substance to them.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

walross1978 wrote:I was reading the spell last night and made me question how good is the spell if people fail the save which is at -4 to save.

Will people using heat sensors be affected by the spell?

Yes, it fools the sensors as well

Will blind woman warriors be affected?

Yes, it fools ALL types of senses

I disagree, Nekira. It's a low-level, low-power spell; it's not until you get to Invisibility: Superior that you're fooling heat sensors, and the BWW work, in part, on a personalized radar sense... an illusion, without substance, wouldn't bounce back the carrier waves. Your ruling seems to assume a lot of power for a fairly simple spell.

not really. all the spell does is copy the casters energy signature on all wavelengths and duplicates it in another location. much simpler than a spell trying to mask them.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:not really. all the spell does is copy the casters energy signature on all wavelengths and duplicates it in another location. much simpler than a spell trying to mask them.

Where do you get "cop[ies] energy signature on all wavelengths" from "three identical images"? It doesn't say anything about "on all wavelengths", and the reproductions are exclusively referred to as "images".

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:not really. all the spell does is copy the casters energy signature on all wavelengths and duplicates it in another location. much simpler than a spell trying to mask them.

Where do you get "cop[ies] energy signature on all wavelengths" from "three identical images"? It doesn't say anything about "on all wavelengths", and the reproductions are exclusively referred to as "images".

it's a logical extension of the spell.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:not really. all the spell does is copy the casters energy signature on all wavelengths and duplicates it in another location. much simpler than a spell trying to mask them.

Where do you get "cop[ies] energy signature on all wavelengths" from "three identical images"? It doesn't say anything about "on all wavelengths", and the reproductions are exclusively referred to as "images".

it's a logical extension of the spell.

No; it would be a logical second spell to make, but spoofing sensors is a higher-level feature of spells. Shadow Meld, of the same level? Can't spoof infrared and thermals. Invisibility: Superior will block those things, but it's three levels higher and almost three times as expensive... in fact, it specifically mentions that it can, and that's what separates it from the 3rd level spell Invisibility: Simple, which is otherwise superior (since it won't break for combat).

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:not really. all the spell does is copy the casters energy signature on all wavelengths and duplicates it in another location. much simpler than a spell trying to mask them.

Where do you get "cop[ies] energy signature on all wavelengths" from "three identical images"? It doesn't say anything about "on all wavelengths", and the reproductions are exclusively referred to as "images".

it's a logical extension of the spell.

No; it would be a logical second spell to make, but spoofing sensors is a higher-level feature of spells. Shadow Meld, of the same level? Can't spoof infrared and thermals. Invisibility: Superior will block those things, but it's three levels higher and almost three times as expensive... in fact, it specifically mentions that it can, and that's what separates it from the 3rd level spell Invisibility: Simple, which is otherwise superior (since it won't break for combat).

The primary difference is those spells conceal the caster. Multiple image does not. Heck, it just gives -4 to strike.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:No; it would be a logical second spell to make, but spoofing sensors is a higher-level feature of spells. Shadow Meld, of the same level? Can't spoof infrared and thermals. Invisibility: Superior will block those things, but it's three levels higher and almost three times as expensive... in fact, it specifically mentions that it can, and that's what separates it from the 3rd level spell Invisibility: Simple, which is otherwise superior (since it won't break for combat).

The primary difference is those spells conceal the caster. Multiple image does not. Heck, it just gives -4 to strike.

Right; and since it's so weak that it shouldn't have any effect on sensors.

I'm still waiting to see where "logical extension" comes out of the wording of the spell, Nekira.