Page 1 of 1
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:34 pm
by Shadyslug
You just have to play the "counter target creature's ability" instant...
Re: How to defeat creature who are able to teleport
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:06 pm
by Killer Cyborg
AP78 wrote:I was wondering how is it possbile to defeat a Dragon hatchling who has the ability to teleport 5 miles away.
Whenever there is a battle and he starts to get hurt, all he has to do is teleport away from the battle. since he is able to bio regenerate his MDC by the minute there seems really no way to stop him unless he fails his teleport % which i believe is 40-50%
The teleporting is a natural ability so negate magic would not work. it seems to me that beings that have the natural ability to teleport have a perfect way of escape
Any thought's or opinion about this topic
Thanks
Kill it before it can run away.
Since there's a good chance of failure on each teleport attempt, you might be able to get several good attacks in even if it starts trying to flee immediately.
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:50 pm
by Crazy Lou
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:59 pm
by Incriptus
Forcing a dragon to run away is a win in my book
. . . expecially if your the agressor, it's hard to defend this village full of defenseless D-Bees when your 5 miles away from the fight.
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:31 pm
by Crazy Lou
Semisonic9 wrote:Crazy Lou wrote:But suppose were talking an YAAI here?
Why do you think those things live so long?
Some would argue that Anti-Magic Cloud disables such an ability in CoM and Supernatural Beings, but there's no canon answer on it as far as I'm aware. Ditto Soul Drinking. Some would argue you cannot teleport through a force field, as well. Ultimately, all such judgements are up to the GM.
That's the biggest problem I've ever had with YAAIs! Not that they're too tough to take out, or anything like that, nor their apparent omnipresence, but the fact that they're always cowardly little buggers that just vanish if things aren't going their way! I realize that any remotely intelligent being would do that, but I think that they shouldn't have it as a natural ability. They should have to use the magic same as anyone else (and they've always got enought PPE to pull it off w/o help)
Re: How to defeat creature who are able to teleport
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:46 pm
by asajosh
AP78 wrote:I was wondering how is it possbile to defeat a Dragon hatchling who has the ability to teleport 5 miles away.
Whenever there is a battle and he starts to get hurt, all he has to do is teleport away from the battle. since he is able to bio regenerate his MDC by the minute there seems really no way to stop him unless he fails his teleport % which i believe is 40-50%
The teleporting is a natural ability so negate magic would not work. it seems to me that beings that have the natural ability to teleport have a perfect way of escape
Any thought's or opinion about this topic
Thanks
I had the same problem with a player dragon in my campaign. Check this thread it may help ya:
viewtopic.php?t=76858&highlight=
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:36 am
by Shiva7
Use a depleted uranium round loaded with a tracking device, thus when he gets hit, he cannot Bio-regenrate the bullet out and you can track him instantly. Send the high speed aircraft after him to keep the pressure on.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:11 am
by Killer Cyborg
Crazy Lou wrote:But suppose were talking an YAAI here?
No idea what that is.
GAAO.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:08 pm
by Talavar
Just FYI, a dragon's attempt to teleport only counts as 1 melee action, not 2-3 or anything like that - it's far faster than any teleport spells. However, they can only attempt it once per melee round, whether it succeeds or fails. So if your dragon character tries to teleport away, and fails, they're stuck in the fight for at least that melee round.
There's really no easy way to force the dragon character to stay; it's probably easier as some others have mentioned to come up with ways to motivate the dragon to stay, either to protect his friends or others, losing a share of the loot for running, getting lost or separated from the group, etc.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:23 pm
by Talavar
Well, in RUE it describes the teleport ability under natural abilities of the Cat's Eye dragon, page 159, and says every other melee round. Dragons & gods goes into a lot more detail however, and says what I said earlier, under natural abilities of most dragons, page 12.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:38 pm
by Crazy Lou
gadrin wrote:YAAI = Yet Another Alien Intelligence (I think)
Hit the nail on the head.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:23 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Crazy Lou wrote:gadrin wrote:YAAI = Yet Another Alien Intelligence (I think)
Hit the nail on the head.
The same applies.
If you're badass enough that an AI is going to run from you instead of squish you like a bug, then you're badass enough to kill it before it can get away.
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:46 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
Have someone cast the spell Dimensional Barrier.
It sets an area where NO form of teleportation or dimensional travel will work.
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:34 pm
by Crazy Lou
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Have someone cast the spell Dimensional Barrier.
It sets an area where NO form of teleportation or dimensional travel will work.
Is that in BoM? If so, page # pls, and if not then book and # pls. Thanks much!
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:44 pm
by NMI
I believe it is in Rifts England and of course Book of Magic. I am not sure though if it prevents non-dimensional teleportation.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:57 am
by Necrite
I fear bringing this up - the topic has spawned so many heated debates in the past, but here goes:
Fight it in the back of a van.
As long as the van has the typical modifications that an adventuring party would use (MD armor plating, environmental seals to keep out gasses and radiation), the dragon can't TP out.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:30 am
by Crazy Lou
Necrite wrote:I fear bringing this up - the topic has spawned so many heated debates in the past, but here goes:
Fight it in the back of a van.
As long as the van has the typical modifications that an adventuring party would use (MD armor plating, environmental seals to keep out gasses and radiation), the dragon can't TP out.
Um, I'd just like to know your source that supports this claim.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:33 pm
by Necrite
I can't remember the place it's stated, and can't find it right now, but it's stated that magic can't go through something full environmental; for example, if you cast fireball while in full environmental armor, it would leave your hand, hit the inside of the suit, and go off, inside the suit. Some people take this to mean that you can't teleport into/out of a full environmental suit/armor/vehicle. Much evidence has been dredged up to both support and disprove the theory, but nothing canon has ever been said on the subject.
I've been away for a while, and still use the old books. If RUE, or some other new book resolves this, please, fill me in.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:25 pm
by Crazy Lou
Necrite wrote:I can't remember the place it's stated, and can't find it right now, but it's stated that magic can't go through something full environmental; for example, if you cast fireball while in full environmental armor, it would leave your hand, hit the inside of the suit, and go off, inside the suit. Some people take this to mean that you can't teleport into/out of a full environmental suit/armor/vehicle. Much evidence has been dredged up to both support and disprove the theory, but nothing canon has ever been said on the subject.
I've been away for a while, and still use the old books. If RUE, or some other new book resolves this, please, fill me in.
Well, I agree that you probably couldn't
magically teleport out of something environmental, but this is a
natural ability, not a magical spell.
Also, w/o reading all that evidence from both sides I can't really take a side, but I think that an environmental vehicle might be a bit different from armor, though in what ways I'm not sure. I guess I'd never considered that as the issue had never presented itself to me in a game.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:32 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Necrite wrote:I can't remember the place it's stated, and can't find it right now, but it's stated that magic can't go through something full environmental;
No, it doesn't.
Some people take this to mean that you can't teleport into/out of a full environmental suit/armor/vehicle.
Some people are wrong.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:34 pm
by Killer Cyborg
Crazy Lou wrote:Necrite wrote:I can't remember the place it's stated, and can't find it right now, but it's stated that magic can't go through something full environmental; for example, if you cast fireball while in full environmental armor, it would leave your hand, hit the inside of the suit, and go off, inside the suit. Some people take this to mean that you can't teleport into/out of a full environmental suit/armor/vehicle. Much evidence has been dredged up to both support and disprove the theory, but nothing canon has ever been said on the subject.
I've been away for a while, and still use the old books. If RUE, or some other new book resolves this, please, fill me in.
Well, I agree that you probably couldn't
magically teleport out of something environmental, but this is a
natural ability, not a magical spell.
Actually, it's a supernatural ability.
Also, w/o reading all that evidence from both sides I can't really take a side, but I think that an environmental vehicle might be a bit different from armor, though in what ways I'm not sure.
viewtopic.php?t=24975&highlight=teleport
Have fun.
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:49 am
by Rallan
Y'know, I was about to give up without a good answer to this one, but then I remembered the magic bullet: Force Fields! I'm pretty sure in the Phase World book it mentions that force fields block most anything up to and including Phase Adept powers and Temporal Magic.
Now obviously this is gonna be limited in its applications (the evil demon in its evil demonic lair probably won't just sit around playing nintendo when a bunch of engineers spend a week or two assembling a humungous network of Naruni force fields around its lair), but I'm sure there's situations where force fields could make the difference between driving off a critter who can teleport and nailing a critter who can teleport.
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:58 am
by Crazy Lou
Killer Cyborg wrote:Actually, it's a supernatural ability.
Really? I always thought the dragon description listed "Natural Abilities" not "Supernatural Abilities." *being facetious*
But seriously, how come a CoM has a SN ability? Why isn't it just "natural" or instinctive (w/o being of "SN" origin) to the CoM?
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:27 am
by Killer Cyborg
Crazy Lou wrote:Killer Cyborg wrote:Actually, it's a supernatural ability.
Really? I always thought the dragon description listed "Natural Abilities" not "Supernatural Abilities." *being facetious*
But seriously, how come a CoM has a SN ability? Why isn't it just "natural" or instinctive (w/o being of "SN" origin) to the CoM?
As you say, they're Creatures of Magic.
What comes naturally to Creaturs of Magic?
Magic.
Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:28 am
by Killer Cyborg
Rallan wrote:Y'know, I was about to give up without a good answer to this one, but then I remembered the magic bullet: Force Fields! I'm pretty sure in the Phase World book it mentions that force fields block most anything up to and including Phase Adept powers and Temporal Magic.
It's been heavily debated, and I forget what the consensus ended up being.
One camp thought that force fields blocked all forms of teleportation, the other thought that they only blocked phase teleportation.
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:13 am
by Talavar
Anyone or thing that can teleport can teleport out of an environmental van provided they have either line of sight or a good idea where they're going.
I'm on the side that where Phase World is discussing force fields preventing teleportation, it is specific to the phase teleportation of the prometheans, not every form of teleportation under the sun - especially not magic forms of teleportation.
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:15 am
by Killer Cyborg
Talavar wrote:Anyone or thing that can teleport can teleport out of an environmental van provided they have either line of sight or a good idea where they're going.
That's pretty much true of any teleportation.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:22 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
Crazy Lou wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Have someone cast the spell Dimensional Barrier.
It sets an area where NO form of teleportation or dimensional travel will work.
Is that in BoM? If so, page # pls, and if not then book and # pls. Thanks much!
No, it's in Library of Bethrald
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:28 pm
by Colt47
How to defeat a creature that can teleport? Buy some D-shackles. Rifts world book 2: Atlantis. Commonly used against Transdimensional enemies. All you have to do is get them onto whatever it is that has the teleport ability.
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:05 pm
by AllMightyRCB
The hatchling dragon only starts with a 28% chance to teleport, only gains 2% per level, and can only try it once every other melee round (page 100 original RMB). It has never been a problem for me since it ain't very likely it would secceed anyways. If somehow it is too hard to kill, just get a couple of people to simultaniously shoot it in the head with anti tank laser rifles.
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:41 am
by Talavar
I don't think the original poster has ever been interested in how to kill the dragon hatchling in one hit, but in how to keep it engaged as part of the group, and not teleporting off on its own at the first sign of trouble. Massive missile volleys and simultaneous head shots seem counter-productive.
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:57 am
by sHaka
How about having a Shifter in the group?
Their d-sensing ability allows them to sense and usurp control of dimensional anomalies (including teleports).
If so, he could make the dragon reappear in front of the party's GB/Borg/'bot etc for a quick smack down, the dragon being unable to attempt another teleport for another round - the Shifter would be waiting of course.
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:10 am
by Rallan
Another option: cast 4-D transformation on yourself and him. Damn foo' can't escape you now unless he's got the innate ability to teleport to another dimension. Physically throwing him into the Astral Plane and ganking him there is another viable option.
Also (and I'm surprised nobody came up with this so far), there's always overwhelming force. With enough guys carrying big enough guns, you can hopefully frag your teleporty monster before it has time to realise that it's screwed and try to escape.
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:15 pm
by Zer0 Kay
Killer Cyborg wrote:Rallan wrote:Y'know, I was about to give up without a good answer to this one, but then I remembered the magic bullet: Force Fields! I'm pretty sure in the Phase World book it mentions that force fields block most anything up to and including Phase Adept powers and Temporal Magic.
It's been heavily debated, and I forget what the consensus ended up being.
One camp thought that force fields blocked all forms of teleportation, the other thought that they only blocked phase teleportation.
Oh my gosh... was that the old teleport thread I just heard being mentioned???
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:16 pm
by Zer0 Kay
Killer Cyborg wrote:Talavar wrote:Anyone or thing that can teleport can teleport out of an environmental van provided they have either line of sight or a good idea where they're going.
That's pretty much true of any teleportation.
Really... I thought there were some arguments on if anyone could teleport out of a cardboard box.
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:20 pm
by Zer0 Kay
Rift Jumper wrote:Magic, magic, magic. Everyone turns to magic. I'm telling you, a well planned missile strike, and old scaly will be a smear. Nobody gives credit to the fact that tech can do just as good a job if applied properly. No, it's all "spell this, and super/natural abilities that". Hit him with a freaking missile strike before the overgrown reptile can get a second chance to move. Enough concentrated Artillery and eventually the most hardened magical target will be forced to buckle. This is sadly, why Tolkeen failed. They believed magic was the end all, be all of power. When properly applied, technology won and magic failed.
Stop relying on spells to do the work, and don't try to make him stay. Let him run. Give him a second to think he's safe. Then let fly the missiles and pursue. Close on him and keep up the sustained bombardment as long as possible. Slippery them scale backs may be, but they can't run forever.
You do realize that both large scale missile strikes and artillary barages have issues. First most missiles (as the RUE states) don't have guidance so it essentially the same as lobbing artillery rounds. If the missiles don't then I wouldn't expect the artillery rounds to be an excalibur round. Even if they did have guidance and could home in on a single living being you can tell when an artillery round is coming in and you can see the missiles. They may travel fast but how long does it take for teleport?
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:21 pm
by Zer0 Kay
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Crazy Lou wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Have someone cast the spell Dimensional Barrier.
It sets an area where NO form of teleportation or dimensional travel will work.
Is that in BoM? If so, page # pls, and if not then book and # pls. Thanks much!
No, it's in Library of Bethrald
Munchkin Queen don't you mean Bletherad... unless your talking about another book?
Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:22 pm
by Zer0 Kay
Rallan wrote:Another option: cast 4-D transformation on yourself and him. Damn foo' can't escape you now unless he's got the innate ability to teleport to another dimension. Physically throwing him into the Astral Plane and ganking him there is another viable option.
Also (and I'm surprised nobody came up with this so far), there's always overwhelming force. With enough guys carrying big enough guns, you can hopefully frag your teleporty monster before it has time to realise that it's screwed and try to escape.
You do realize most dragons have dimensional teleport as an innate ability right?
Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:10 am
by sHaka
Zer0 Kay wrote:Rallan wrote:Another option: cast 4-D transformation on yourself and him. Damn foo' can't escape you now unless he's got the innate ability to teleport to another dimension. Physically throwing him into the Astral Plane and ganking him there is another viable option.
Also (and I'm surprised nobody came up with this so far), there's always overwhelming force. With enough guys carrying big enough guns, you can hopefully frag your teleporty monster before it has time to realise that it's screwed and try to escape.
You do realize most dragons have dimensional teleport as an innate ability right?
Which is why, if you're going the magic route, a Shifter is probably one of the best options - overide the beastie's ability to make a sneaky get away.
Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:15 pm
by Crazy Lou
sHaka wrote:Zer0 Kay wrote:Rallan wrote:Another option: cast 4-D transformation on yourself and him. Damn foo' can't escape you now unless he's got the innate ability to teleport to another dimension. Physically throwing him into the Astral Plane and ganking him there is another viable option.
Also (and I'm surprised nobody came up with this so far), there's always overwhelming force. With enough guys carrying big enough guns, you can hopefully frag your teleporty monster before it has time to realise that it's screwed and try to escape.
You do realize most dragons have dimensional teleport as an innate ability right?
Which is why, if you're going the magic route, a Shifter is probably one of the best options - overide the beastie's ability to make a sneaky get away.
I havn't read the shifter tele-overide thing in a while, but didn't it need to be a magical spell, not just any old teleport?
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:12 pm
by cornholioprime
Semisonic9 wrote:Crazy Lou wrote:But suppose were talking an YAAI here?
Why do you think those things live so long?
Some would argue that Anti-Magic Cloud disables such an ability in CoM and Supernatural Beings, but there's no canon answer on it as far as I'm aware. Ditto Soul Drinking. Some would argue you cannot teleport through a force field, as well. Ultimately, all such judgements are up to the GM.
As far as Hatchlings go, they're not that hard to take down. I wasn't able to find any text on it, but, at the very least, I would make an attempt cost several melee actions. I think any of the teleport spells take at least 3, so 2-3 seems reasonable, and I may apply penalties if the character tries to TP around a lot without knowing where they're going.
If you really just want to spice things up for a PC who's using the ability a bit too much, have him run into a LLR of comparable power (perhaps a supernatural being himself) and have him hitch-hike the teleport and keep attacking.
If he survives, perhaps next time your dragon will be more inclined to stay with the group.
Dragon- "Oh, I've teleported away to safety with my last 50 MDC! Yay me for another clever strategy"
*LLR casts Dessicate the Supernatural*Dragon- "Crap! Time to re-roll!"
~Semi
PS- The other answer is to simply have your dragon get lost one time, especially if he flies far away. A gaming session spent watching other people play while your PC rolls Land Nav for an hour or two can suck.
[Humourous Side Note]
Per the Spell description, "Dessicate the Supernatural" works ONLY on True Supernatural creatures, not Creatures of Magic or normal mortals.
Sounds to me as if it's time for the MAGE to roll another character.
[/Humourous Side Note]
Re: How to defeat creature who are able to teleport
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:14 pm
by cornholioprime
AP78 wrote:I was wondering how is it possbile to defeat a Dragon hatchling who has the ability to teleport 5 miles away.
Whenever there is a battle and he starts to get hurt, all he has to do is teleport away from the battle. since he is able to bio regenerate his MDC by the minute there seems really no way to stop him unless he fails his teleport % which i believe is 40-50%
The teleporting is a natural ability so negate magic would not work. it seems to me that beings that have the natural ability to teleport have a perfect way of escape
Any thought's or opinion about this topic
Thanks
That's why "God" (Kevin) writes Dragons to be easily susceptible to a beserker rage of sorts were all that they can think of is to attack the Enemy and NOT try to escape.
Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:21 pm
by cornholioprime
Talavar wrote:Anyone or thing that can teleport can teleport out of an environmental van provided they have either line of sight or a good idea where they're going.
I'm on the side that where Phase World is discussing force fields preventing teleportation, it is specific to the phase teleportation of the prometheans, not every form of teleportation under the sun - especially not magic forms of teleportation.
Actually, the Force Fields of Phase world are specifically described as stopping ALL forms of teleportation......provided the field in question surrounds the creature on all sides, apparently.
(
Rifts: Phase World, pages 14 and 16)
Good luck surrounding an entire Dragon's Lair in all three dimensions, though.
