No leaping spells...

[asajosh]

I was glancing thru my various books of magic nad noticed that there appear to be no spells that grant the caster a superhuman jumping ability. I admit I only want such a spell to incorporate into a TW device (at the moment) but I'm sure others will find more uses. Submitted for your enjoyment.

Superhuman Leap
Level: Fourth
Duration: 30 seconds (two melees) per level of the caster
Range: Self or others by touch
Saving Throw: None
PPE: 8

This spell allows the caster to jump a superhuman distance, either horizontally or vertically. Once cast, add 20 feet to the mage's normal running and still jump distances. In addition, landing on one's feet from a great fall (maximum 20 feet per level) will have no ill effect.

Comments (try to be kind)?

[Grell]

It looks like a good spell. I would alter the distance formula to something like 5 feet per every PE point above 10.

Other than that, I like it. I especially like the damage reduction in falls while the spell is in use.

Good idea!

[asajosh]

It looks like a good spell. I would alter the distance formula to something like 5 feet per every PE point above 10.

Other than that, I like it. I especially like the damage reduction in falls while the spell is in use.

Good idea!

I was looking at Superhuman Speed and Superhuman Strength as a reference. They give an arbitrary attribute increase, so I thought this spell should work in a similar fashion. Thanks for the input

[Talavar]

Really, the superhuman strength spell should give super-leaping - I mean, if you can make yourself strong enough to lift 3000 lbs, but only weigh 200 lbs, or whatever, you should be able to jump a pretty far distance.

As far as I know, however, there are no leaping distance charts for normal mass characters that have supernatural or robotic strength, because really, they should be able to jump a lot farther than a normal character.

[asajosh]

Really, the superhuman strength spell should give super-leaping - I mean, if you can make yourself strong enough to lift 3000 lbs, but only weigh 200 lbs, or whatever, you should be able to jump a pretty far distance.

Perhaps it should, but canonically, it does not. Thus the need for a spell to specificlly address leaping.

As far as I know, however, there are no leaping distance charts for normal mass characters that have supernatural or robotic strength, because really, they should be able to jump a lot farther than a normal character.

I wouldn't know, this was "on the fly" and I never searched for any charts. I just used the Superhuman Strength and Speed spells as a reference and came up with what I think is a reasonable spell.

[Talavar]

I've got nothing against the spell, it's a fine little spell. But canonically, I don't think you can say superhuman strength wouldn't let you jump really far. Like I said, there's nothing to indicate how far normal-weight characters with super-strength can jump. It's not canon one way or the other, it's a grey area that needs to be house-ruled.

Looking at the supernatural strength throwing rules from RUE though, which say that a char with supernatural strength of 24 can throw 600 lbs 120 feet, I'd argue that a normal human weight character could jump at least that far. Now, you'd want some sort of skill/attribute roll to see if they jumped accurately and landed properly, but you should expect to see light super-strong characters at least jumping around like jedi knights or spider-man, if not leaping tall buildings in a single bound.

[asajosh]

The only problem I see Talavar is that in game terms upper body throwing strength has no effect on lower body strength for running speed or jumping distance and vice versa. Otherwise the Superhuman Strength spell would cover lifting, throwing, running, jumping, etc. This is either an oversight at PB or done intentionally, one spell to effect one specific attribute.
Anyway thanks for the input

[Talavar]

But the game doesn't have different strength values for upper/lower body. We've got PS: whatever, and that's supposed to be representative of the character's whole body strength. So if you can stand up while holding 600 lbs above your head, I guess your legs are pretty strong too.

I would say that the Superhuman Strength spell should cover lifting, throwing and jumping - not running though, as speed isn't necessarily dependent on strength. I mean, fast runners generally have pretty strong legs and all, but at least in Palladium-land, speed is a separate attribute, while lifting, throwing and jumping are all dictated by strength. So the way I see it, if a spell raises that one attribute, it should effect all of the abilities governed by that attribute.

[asajosh]

But the game doesn't have different strength values for upper/lower body. We've got PS: whatever, and that's supposed to be representative of the character's whole body strength. So if you can stand up while holding 600 lbs above your head, I guess your legs are pretty strong too.

I would say that the Superhuman Strength spell should cover lifting, throwing and jumping - not running though, as speed isn't necessarily dependent on strength. I mean, fast runners generally have pretty strong legs and all, but at least in Palladium-land, speed is a separate attribute, while lifting, throwing and jumping are all dictated by strength. So the way I see it, if a spell raises that one attribute, it should effect all of the abilities governed by that attribute.

Okies, fine, in your game Superhuman Strength covers leaping. I get it. And yes logically increasing overall strength should generally increase jumping abilities, but in PB game system it does not. PS effects lifting, carrying and throwing. Not jumping. If anything Jumping in PB is a function of the Speed Attribute. In my game, and all the GM's Ive played under, Superhuman Strength works just as described with no increase in jumping ability. So for those who don't follow your house rule, here's an option.

[Grell]

One could also take a hint from the cyborg construction tables and assign a seperate PS to lower body in order to handle leaping ability. I'd say that by default, the legs have 50% more than the upper body PS (standard per rules).

Just a thought!

Yes, I still like the leaping spell too!

[Tinker Dragoon]

Really, the superhuman strength spell should give super-leaping - I mean, if you can make yourself strong enough to lift 3000 lbs, but only weigh 200 lbs, or whatever, you should be able to jump a pretty far distance.

Perhaps it should, but canonically, it does not.

Ah, but it does. The spell grants supernatural strength, and supernaturally strong characters can jump twice as far as normal humans (at least, in the old Rifts rules; other games have other numbers). Still, a dedicated jumping spell would be useful, and it would keep the psychics from hogging the high ground.

[Library Ogre]

FWIW, I calculate jumping distance based on speed... if your Speed were PS, how far could you throw someone weighing as much as you?

[Talavar]

And yes logically increasing overall strength should generally increase jumping abilities, but in PB game system it does not. PS effects lifting, carrying and throwing. Not jumping. If anything Jumping in PB is a function of the Speed Attribute. In my game, and all the GM's Ive played under, Superhuman Strength works just as described with no increase in jumping ability. So for those who don't follow your house rule, here's an option.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but where does it say in the PB game system that strength doesn't effect jumping? I can't easily find any rules for jumping in the core books, let alone ones that say speed is the attribute to base it off.

As to your game, what does the Superhuman Strength spell actually state that it does? Raise the PS to 30, and make it supernatural. Not much of a description of what it does, or does not cover - it's hardly so specific that you can definitively say you're using it just as described, and I'm not. I mean, it doesn't actually state that you can carry any more weight either, but it's assumed that since it makes you stronger, you can.

FWIW, I calculate jumping distance based on speed... if your Speed were PS, how far could you throw someone weighing as much as you?

I agree that speed should play a factor, but not the primary one. What if you're jumping straight up, or doing a sort of standing long jump? I've always seen it done that jumping is a factor of PS, with speed as a multiplier, meaning however far you can jump from a standstill, it's increased by x for your speed when you're running.

[Library Ogre]

FWIW, I calculate jumping distance based on speed... if your Speed were PS, how far could you throw someone weighing as much as you?

I agree that speed should play a factor, but not the primary one. What if you're jumping straight up, or doing a sort of standing long jump? I've always seen it done that jumping is a factor of PS, with speed as a multiplier, meaning however far you can jump from a standstill, it's increased by x for your speed when you're running.

The way I see it, Speed is pretty much your ability to move yourself with your legs; it is, in a sense, your lower-body PS. PS refers to your upper body strength and overall weight capacity (and thus an element of lower body strength), but without sufficient Speed, your body isn't set up for rapid movement.

Let me put it this way: Who should be able to jump farther? Arnold Schwarzenegger, at the height of his career, or Carl Lewis? Arnold has a far higher PS (even in relation to his body weight), but Carl Lewis has a higher Speed.

[asajosh]

I know your not trying to be a jerk Talavar, I never thought you were
It can be hard to get a sense of people's "tone" from text alone tho, can't it? hehe.

I think rules for leaping are in Ninjas and Superspies (if anyone knows off hand, please post), but it's been years since I've cracked open that chest nut, and even if I wanted to at this late hour, I wouldn't know where to find the book off hand. Maybe TMNT&OS...

Anyway the way Ive always played it, what limited times I have, is that the Superhuman this and that spells work STRICTLY as written. Keep that snowball small, if you follow the metaphor Neither one mentions leaping specifically, so leaping isn't effected. Its magic, it doesn't have to follow logic (and your assertions are most logical).

The effects of this spell on leaping distance aside, I hope you and others at least find the bit about falling distance useful. Never know when your players might have a 50 foot drop as their only means of escape!

[asajosh]

you're absolutely right. In one of the older Rifts RPG books (which I have) there's Leap/Jump rules all based off PS. You go up every level. Acrobatics & Gymnastics add to it. Supernatural PS also adds to it. If you've got TK Leap that adds to (you can acheive Jedi-like effects).

My version of Rifts is 13th printing, Sept 2000 and the jump/leap rules on p44.

Okies Well I have a
softcover RMB, 3rd printing May 1991
hardcover RMB printed 1995 (now my most prized book, as I got it signed by Kevin at the OH)
RUE, First printing august 05

For some reason RUE doesn't seem to have these rules or a chart for leaping distance based on strength. Wonder why they dropped it from the 13th re-print of the RMB to RUE? weird... Any chance someone could PM it to me?

I stand by my spell, it works as well as it should considdering the CURRENT incarnation of the rules

Thanks for the input all!

[Damian Magecraft]

you're absolutely right. In one of the older Rifts RPG books (which I have) there's Leap/Jump rules all based off PS. You go up every level. Acrobatics & Gymnastics add to it. Supernatural PS also adds to it. If you've got TK Leap that adds to (you can acheive Jedi-like effects).

My version of Rifts is 13th printing, Sept 2000 and the jump/leap rules on p44.

Okies Well I have a
softcover RMB, 3rd printing May 1991
hardcover RMB printed 1995 (now my most prized book, as I got it signed by Kevin at the OH)
RUE, First printing august 05

For some reason RUE doesn't seem to have these rules or a chart for leaping distance based on strength. Wonder why they dropped it from the 13th re-print of the RMB to RUE? weird... Any chance someone could PM it to me?

I stand by my spell, it works as well as it should considdering the CURRENT incarnation of the rules

Thanks for the input all!

the answer you seek can be found here...
viewtopic.php?p=994886&highlight=#994886

[Talavar]

The way I see it, Speed is pretty much your ability to move yourself with your legs; it is, in a sense, your lower-body PS. PS refers to your upper body strength and overall weight capacity (and thus an element of lower body strength), but without sufficient Speed, your body isn't set up for rapid movement.

Let me put it this way: Who should be able to jump farther? Arnold Schwarzenegger, at the height of his career, or Carl Lewis? Arnold has a far higher PS (even in relation to his body weight), but Carl Lewis has a higher Speed.

Well, I agree that Carl Lewis would be able to jump farther than Arnold, particularly from a run - but from standing still what would hold Arnold back would be his increased bulk vs. his increased strength. A high-end athlete like Carl Lewis would still be pretty strong, and without all that increased mass. I don't think I agree that Speed effectively equals lower body PS; you can be pretty fast but not very strong. Strength is a part of being able to move your body quickly, but there are a lot of other factors, like stride length and total weight.

When dealing with people whose strength so outstrips the increased mass added by having it, like those with super-strength, a better example might be, who can jump farther, the Hulk or Quicksilver?

[asajosh]

the answer you seek can be found here...
viewtopic.php?p=994886&highlight=#994886

Sweet Damian, thats perfect.
Original jumping rules in After the Bomb! Damn I was close with my guess at TMNT (my official introduction to PB gaming system, wow in like '89-90!)

[Library Ogre]

When dealing with people whose strength so outstrips the increased mass added by having it, like those with super-strength, a better example might be, who can jump farther, the Hulk or Quicksilver?

Good point. The difficulty, then, comes in reasonable weights for PS.