I *cough* fixed fleet feet

[Mouser13]

That is more broken then the org.

Full bonuses do you mean at full dodge bonus? If so that is just wrong keep to the normal PP bonus for auto-dodge.

I always though double was to much for the spell. I would do x2 but with max of +12 P.P. Or limit of 26.

Fleet feet is always be one of the most broken spells only one I think is worst Fourth demenisonal transformation.

[asajosh]

Fleet Feet has always been one of the most broken spells. The only one I think is worse Fourth Dimenisonal Transformation.

At least 4D Transformation has the insanities to help balance it a little.

[Nekira Sudacne]

x2 PP

[Talavar]

Yep, Fleet Feet's unbalancing, and this doesn't fix it. I mean, adding auto-dodge? You're making it better, not balancing it.

[rat_bastard]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

[Mouser13]

x2 PP

What this one munckin fairy, miss this one? normally like X2 P.P, attacks, and speed all for cheap like what under 50 I believe.


Well this is a old left over from first edition PF right? It was not in second edition, but got errated back in reprint?

[Temporalmage]

Powerfull spell to be sure, but I didn't think it was broken to begin with, at least not as broken as Carpet of Adhesion.

[Nekira Sudacne]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

[Mouser13]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

You still get the double speed and attacks.

But on the note fixing it. Speed weapon causes 100 P.P.E. and only works on melee non-magic weapons.

So in the end I think the only way to fix it is to side effects and/ or make it insane cost like 400-600 P.P.E. and like 13 level speed instead of level 6.

effects.

Such as a roll on the serve hit-point damage table for broken bones.
Or even maybe on the insanity table. I don't know, but I don't think the mind or body would handle going twice has fast.

P.P. 46 who cares try 72 jucier. I could believe it has I seen it rolled.

[Nekira Sudacne]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

You still get the double speed and attacks.

But on the note fixing it. Speed weapon causes 100 P.P.E. and only works on melee non-magic weapons.

So in the end I think the only way to fix it is to side effects and/ or make it insane cost like 400-600 P.P.E. and like 13 level speed instead of level 6.

effects.

Such as a roll on the serve hit-point damage table for broken bones.
Or even maybe on the insanity table. I don't know, but I don't think the mind or body would handle going twice has fast.

P.P. 46 who cares try 72 jucier. I could believe it has I seen it rolled.

How? not without using some kind of weird houserule.

[Mouser13]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

You still get the double speed and attacks.

But on the note fixing it. Speed weapon causes 100 P.P.E. and only works on melee non-magic weapons.

So in the end I think the only way to fix it is to side effects and/ or make it insane cost like 400-600 P.P.E. and like 13 level speed instead of level 6.

effects.

Such as a roll on the serve hit-point damage table for broken bones.
Or even maybe on the insanity table. I don't know, but I don't think the mind or body would handle going twice has fast.

P.P. 46 who cares try 72 jucier. I could believe it has I seen it rolled.

How? not without using some kind of weird houserule.

No, just the standard humans get to keep rolling D6 after a 6 on a stat 16-18 initial roll. Though I guess now you are what stop at 50? Can't remember what the RUE said on it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

You still get the double speed and attacks.

But on the note fixing it. Speed weapon causes 100 P.P.E. and only works on melee non-magic weapons.

So in the end I think the only way to fix it is to side effects and/ or make it insane cost like 400-600 P.P.E. and like 13 level speed instead of level 6.

effects.

Such as a roll on the serve hit-point damage table for broken bones.
Or even maybe on the insanity table. I don't know, but I don't think the mind or body would handle going twice has fast.

P.P. 46 who cares try 72 jucier. I could believe it has I seen it rolled.

How? not without using some kind of weird houserule.

No, just the standard humans get to keep rolling D6 after a 6 on a stat 16-18 initial roll. Though I guess now you are what stop at 50? Can't remember what the RUE said on it.

that was NEVER the standard. ALL the books with that rule clearly cap it at 30.

[Talavar]

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46

How, may I ask, does your character have a PP of 46?!?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46

How, may I ask, does your character have a PP of 46?!?

Superpowers.

[Grandil]

I should change my name to Mechanic of Game, 48 was the highest, but with extrapolation, a PP of 52 would mean a init bonus of +8, matching
the S, P, & D. There really is no Limit to it, Just a practical limit! So Muchkin Fae- do yourself a favor, & drop it-Lol

[asajosh]

I should change my name to Mechanic of Game, 48 was the highest, but with extrapolation, a PP of 54 would mean a init bonus of +8, matching
the S, P, & D. There really is no Limit to it, Just a practical limit! So Muchkin Fae- do yourself a favor, & drop it-Lol

Do you have copy of RUE?
I direct your atention to page 279, right hand column, under the heading Step 1: The Eight Attributes

...Exceptional right off the bat: If an initial attribute roll using three six-sided dice (3D6) adds up to 16, 17, or 18 that attribute is considered exceptional and the player rolls one additional six-sided die (1D6), and the resulting number is added to the total for that attribute. If another six is rolled (a rarity), roll yet another 1D6 for that attribute. No additional dice are rolled even if the second 1D6 bonus miraculously comes up a six.

X = 3D6
if 3D6 = 16-18, add 1D6
if 1D6 = 6, add 1D6
STOP HERE, no matter what second 1D6 is.
Add all rolls together, thats your attribute.

So, before OCC training, the maximum attribute for a normal human is... 30 (18+6+6). Add OCC attribute bonuses, skill bonuses to this base.

[Grandil]

so sorry dude, Was I specific in saying Human? I Don't Think So! There
are many Races with high PP Scores......... & what the Munchkin Faerie
was talking about is a person with a Minor Super-Ability. Note that any bonuses if u use Rifters 7, 19, & 31 are cumulative unless you use the
Diminishing returns rule in #19. This does NOT include Body Chi.......A
little off subject, but still in the same vein, (tap, tap), lol, There really are
only a few attributes that can go above 100. IQ, PS, PP, & Speed if you
look at yes, RUE. Azajosh, I hope I dont get flamed for this.

[asajosh]

so sorry dude, Was I specific in saying Human? I Don't Think So! There
are many Races with high PP Scores......... & what the Munchkin Faerie
was talking about is a person with a Minor Super-Ability. Note that any bonuses if u use Rifters 7, 19, & 31 are cumulative unless you use the
Diminishing returns rule in #19. This does NOT include Body Chi.......A
little off subject, but still in the same vein, (tap, tap), lol, There really are
only a few attributes that can go above 100. IQ, PS, PP, & Speed if you
look at yes, RUE. Azajosh, I hope I dont get flamed for this.

Just trying to be helpful, no need for rudeness.
Now I'll be rude: In your nearly-senseless ramblings you mentioned stacking rules from Rifters, all are alternative, supplamental, non-canonical. If your goal is to corrupt the rules to make some uber-munchkin character, may I suggest getting your hands on the TMNT and ATB books. Sorry I didnt notice your character in question wasn't human, your posts are near illegable. Otherwise, go back to playing WoW. Your manner bores me.

[rat_bastard]

booooooobies!

[asajosh]

booooooobies!

Yes rat, Boobies, indeed.

You never cease to make me smile.

[Grandil]

Dear Asajosh, I'm sorry! I was rude!! Being on a public comp can be a
little hurried. There I said it..... The same goes for you sweet Munchkin
Faerie- I just didn't have the time to write with a little grace, civility, &
just being polite. I'm gonna add some more to my next
reply.

[Grandil]

Just trying to be helpful, no need for rudeness.
Now I'll be rude: In your nearly-senseless ramblings you mentioned stacking rules from Rifters, all are alternative, supplamental, non-canonical. If your goal is to corrupt the rules to make some uber-munchkin character, may I suggest getting your hands on the TMNT and ATB books. Sorry I didnt notice your character in question wasn't human, your posts are near illegable. Otherwise, go back to playing WoW. Your manner bores me.

Now to answer this with sensibility, calmness,
rationality, & be polite; me that is..... "Nearly-senseless ramblings" 1.
What I didn't say is that you can stack physical skills-not double them,
just use them! 2. The Physical skills in are those particular Rifters,
mirror actual skills in the real world.....(versimiltude not withstanding). 3.
Even canon allows for a PP of at least 32, using the rules outlined. Using
the example above, for a Human, you get a bonus of +2 for both
Gymnastics, & Acrobatics. On pg. 25 of RUE, Kevin gives stats for
characters with Higher than Average attributes.

If your goal is to
corrupt the rules to make some uber-munchkin character, may I suggest getting your hands on the TMNT and ATB books.

I do have ATB,
but was too late in getting TNMT-Maybe Eastman & Laird will get back into
the Role-Playing Field (hint, hint). And as far as having Uber-Munchkin
Characters, why Yes, thank you, I do. You have no Idea. But I stick with
the rules I have!

Otherwise, go back to playing WoW.[quote]
Eww, knowing most ppls opinion on WoW on this board, & I think yours,
Asajosh, is no exception, that was a bit low. I just started to play the
MMORPG, but it got too expensive. As to the Pen & Paper D20, I've
actually ran a couple of games, & played in them too. 3 books is all I
have. In all humility, Please don't take offense, Asajosh, & Nekira
I tend to blow off steam when I'm in a hurry. Well, Thanks for Listening
to my ramblings...... please forgive me?
Sincerely,
Grandil

[Mouser13]

quoth the Asajosh...
Do you have copy of RUE?
I direct your atention to page 279, right hand column, under the heading Step 1: The Eight Attributes

...Exceptional right off the bat: If an initial attribute roll using three six-sided dice (3D6) adds up to 16, 17, or 18 that attribute is considered exceptional and the player rolls one additional six-sided die (1D6), and the resulting number is added to the total for that attribute. If another six is rolled (a rarity), roll yet another 1D6 for that attribute. No additional dice are rolled even if the second 1D6 bonus miraculously comes up a six.

X = 3D6
if Σ3D6 = 16-18, add 1D6
if 1D6 = 6, add 1D6
STOP HERE, no matter what second 1D6 is.
Add all rolls together, thats your attribute.

So, before OCC training, the maximum attribute for a normal human is... 30 (18+6+6). Add OCC attribute bonuses, skill bonuses to this base.

quoth the Grandil...
so sorry dude, Was I specific in saying Human? I Don't Think So! There
are many Races with high PP Scores.........

If said "many Races with high PP scores" are using anything other than 3d6 for their PP, they shouldn't be getting the special power of spawning d6s. "Human" is irrelevant. And 3d6+50 is not the same as 3d6.
That said, I'm sure grabbing content from multiple books will easily allow astronomical stats, as alluded to.

Also, on the topic of changing Fleet Feet's level, would that really do anything to take it out of the hands of any casters who rightfully (or not) got their hands on it? I think not! If you think it's broken, remove it! And you probably should since it's based on a game with a different, though similar, mechanic. There's a reason it probably hasn't been reprinted in RUE friendly places. (but to be honest, I haven't seen it anywhere other than PFRPG)

Agree, but that is why they updated org. the text wasn't so clear on if you keep rolling have you get 1D6. Though the text could have been either and since they update to make sure you don't keep rolling.


Personlly, the spell is not that broken most of the things it does can be done with other spells or simmilar.(Though x2 P.P. not). The problem is you get all of them and at like 1/10th the cost. Personlly seening how we have speed weapon that cost 100. If you want to keep the spell I think you should just make it cost like 250 P.P.E. and make it level 13-15. Making it very costly to use so it is only done in rare needed times. The main problem now is it is so cheap that you can do it every combat. And low enough level that even casters that are low level are like to get access to it.

[asajosh]

Dear Asajosh, I'm sorry! I was rude!! Being on a public comp can be a
little hurried. There I said it..... The same goes for you sweet Munchkin
Faerie- I just didn't have the time to write with a little grace, civility, &
just being polite. I'm gonna add some more to my next
reply.

No worries, it happens.
I should have said something in a PM, rather then in the post, that was only adding fuel to the fire. Ya the WoW thing was over the top I admit it. All is forgiven and forgotten on my end.

I've seen too many folks twist the rules, make a munchie character, get bored and (here's the worst part), bad mouth the Palladium system as being too munchkinized, turning people from the game before they play. Gets my dander up.

When you have time to write, your posts are quite clear!
May I humbly suggest not reading/responding to the forums in public? I stopped reading them at work for similar reasons you stated (rushed, not enough time to thoroughly read and respond).

...versimiltude...

Oooh that word, right up there with Diplomat for me... Love it!

[Mouser13]

I've seen too many folks twist the rules

Well I think this was just a problem with some of the early writting. Look at how many years it took to get apm straight. To me the RUE help to clear up alot of things and make some things more playable(casters mainly).

[asajosh]

I've seen too many folks twist the rules

Well I think this was just a problem with some of the early writting. Look at how many years it took to get apm straight. To me the RUE help to clear up alot of things and make some things more playable(casters mainly).

Agreed.
I'm really happy with the rules for TW item creation, except for construction cost which I house rule.

[Grandil]

Dear Asajosh,
TY for being patient w/this old man. I can understand where you come
from. I get frustrated though, rolling up 1st level characters that have
average stats. The idea is to have Heroes. I know they give stats on UE
for less than average PPL, & I've seen some interesting characters with
low stats-basically vagabonds. eventually they got bionics, & I dislike the
way bionics are handled in the game. They think they all that, & they not.
Same thing for juicers. I got rid of my Juicer Uprising years ago. Except
for the Mega-Juicer, the Dragon Juicer, & the Splugorth Symbiote Juicer,
they are 1 splat away from a REAL Dragon. if ya want Auto-Dodge, there
are a couple of Martial arts that supply that.
Anyway, the first lvl Characters I run are reasonably heroic, & I can
understand the boredom factor w/munchkin. It's happened to me as a GM,
at least with Player Characters- I never get bored with Munchin Down.
You just have to raise the Challenge Level. Power Gamers, & those that
try to take advantage of the GM, I have a hard time with.
Thanx for accepting my humble apology,
Yours Sincerely,
Grandil

[asajosh]

Dear Asajosh,
TY for being patient w/this old man. I can understand where you come
from. I get frustrated though, rolling up 1st level characters that have
average stats. The idea is to have Heroes. I know they give stats on UE
for less than average PPL, & I've seen some interesting characters with
low stats-basically vagabonds. eventually they got bionics, & I dislike the
way bionics are handled in the game. They think they all that, & they not.
Same thing for juicers. I got rid of my Juicer Uprising years ago. Except
for the Mega-Juicer, the Dragon Juicer, & the Splugorth Symbiote Juicer,
they are 1 splat away from a REAL Dragon. if ya want Auto-Dodge, there
are a couple of Martial arts that supply that.
Anyway, the first lvl Characters I run are reasonably heroic, & I can
understand the boredom factor w/munchkin. It's happened to me as a GM,
at least with Player Characters- I never get bored with Munchin Down.
You just have to raise the Challenge Level. Power Gamers, & those that
try to take advantage of the GM, I have a hard time with.
Thanx for accepting my humble apology,
Yours Sincerely,
Grandil

Of course sir. Its ultimately YOUR game, play the way that makes you happy!
I loved juicer uprising, myself.

[Mouser13]

I kinda thought the spell was ok in the first place... you still dont get to dodge or parry an attack you didnt know was coming...

Seriously, if enemy reinforcements arrive and there is some dude running around the battlefield like a speed freak then why wouldnt they start attacking him with bows from a distance... or carpet of adhesion him... always hated that spell... ever since a heroes campaign where my sonic speed guy got caught and killed on one. (never mind that i was the character killing him too, i didnt cast the carpet)

Yes, but carpet of adhesion is just has broken has fleet feet and 4th Demensional Transformation.(Which is why I love temporal wizards can get all three).

[beatobur]

x2 PP

as the munchkin fairy you approve yes?

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

You still get the double speed and attacks.

But on the note fixing it. Speed weapon causes 100 P.P.E. and only works on melee non-magic weapons.

So in the end I think the only way to fix it is to side effects and/ or make it insane cost like 400-600 P.P.E. and like 13 level speed instead of level 6.

effects.

Such as a roll on the serve hit-point damage table for broken bones.
Or even maybe on the insanity table. I don't know, but I don't think the mind or body would handle going twice has fast.

P.P. 46 who cares try 72 jucier. I could believe it has I seen it rolled.

How? not without using some kind of weird houserule.

No, just the standard humans get to keep rolling D6 after a 6 on a stat 16-18 initial roll. Though I guess now you are what stop at 50? Can't
remember what the RUE said on it.

I always thought it ended at 30.

[Mouser13]

Yes, new rules say that, but the old was left a little open so it could be seen has keep going. Which is why I believe they updated the text in RUE.

[Nightshade37]

Heck No! My gunslinger already has a PP of 46, you don't get any bonuses for higher than that, so all this spell would do would be to give peons a chance aginst me!!!!

Don't you continue to get sharpshooting bonuses as your P.P. increases?

[asajosh]

I always thought it ended at 30.

For humans, the attribute cap is 30. For humans.