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As I see it, the major organized threats to humanity are:

Atlantis!!!
Gargoyle Empire
Phoenix Empire
Vampire Kingdoms

If you were the Emperor of the Coalition States, how would you kick them out? In what order?

Sir Neil wrote:As I see it, the major organized threats to humanity are:

Atlantis!!!
Gargoyle Empire
Phoenix Empire
Vampire Kingdoms

If you were the Emperor of the Coalition States, how would you kick them out? In what order?

you left out a dozen threats...

but embracing magic and certain gods is a good first step.

Vampires are by far the easiest of the opponents.

rat_bastard wrote:...you left out a dozen threats.....

I was going to mention the Canadian bugs, but I can't spell their name.

The order I'd take them in is Phoenix, Gargoyle, Atlantis, Vampires.

The Phoenix Empire is pretty easy. That will give us the Egyptian pyramids and a Millenium tree. Africa is ours.

Next we sweep north and with the NGR put the Gargoyle/Brodkil in a vise, maybe grinding the monsters against the Russians. (Never read that book.) Europe is ours, and Atlantis is surrounded.

Now comes the toughie. Splyncryth has more plot immunity than Erin Tarn, but oh, to cleanse the Earth of the Splugorth!

Lastly, the CS, NGR, and Columbia open up the vampire tombs with bombs and cook the VI's with sunlight. As I recall, that kills every vampire tied to them, Kevin Bacon style. We need an easy fight after taking on Atlantis.

There are still problems here and there, (China, Cibbola, the Evil Millenium tree, etc.) but at least humanity has a firm grip on their world again.

There is also the slight problem of dealing with ARCHIE as well. remants of the Mechanoids that may have survived.

Sir Neil wrote:As I see it, the major organized threats to humanity are:

Atlantis!!!
Gargoyle Empire
Phoenix Empire
Vampire Kingdoms

If you were the Emperor of the Coalition States, how would you kick them out? In what order?

Well, the first thing I'd do is try to survive the ever-growing xiticic hordes.
AFTER that, I'd dig a channel across Mexico to keep the Vampires out.
Then I'd work on pacifying North America, and selling arms to the NGR.
By the time that's accomplished, my great, great grandchildren would be in charge.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Sir Neil wrote:As I see it, the major organized threats to humanity are:

Atlantis!!!
Gargoyle Empire
Phoenix Empire
Vampire Kingdoms

If you were the Emperor of the Coalition States, how would you kick them out? In what order?

Well, the first thing I'd do is try to survive the ever-growing xiticic hordes.
AFTER that, I'd dig a channel across Mexico to keep the Vampires out.
Then I'd work on pacifying North America, and selling arms to the NGR.
By the time that's accomplished, my great, great grandchildren would be in charge.

see I'd take the well of Chiten izu (whatever its called its in vamp kingdoms, a book you love) and have my command staff become immortal so I can lead every step of the plan...

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:There is also the slight problem of dealing with ARCHIE as well. remants of the Mechanoids that may have survived.

"Slight" is the key word there. ARCHIE's the sort of threat an adventuring group or four could handle. The Mechanoids will be handled through diplomacy: I'll send Erin Tarn to woo them with her Mary Worth-esque meddling-biddy POWAHZ.

Or I could turn everyone into a partial-conversion borg with tank treads instead of legs. That could work.

***
KC brings up an excellent point -- our great and inevitable victory for humanity ain't happening overnight.

Sir Neil wrote:

Mr. Deific NMI wrote:There is also the slight problem of dealing with ARCHIE as well. remants of the Mechanoids that may have survived.

"Slight" is the key word there. ARCHIE's the sort of threat an adventuring group or four could handle.

yeah right.

You're not factoring in the Federation of Magic, either.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Sir Neil wrote:As I see it, the major organized threats to humanity are:

Atlantis!!!
Gargoyle Empire
Phoenix Empire
Vampire Kingdoms

If you were the Emperor of the Coalition States, how would you kick them out? In what order?

Well, the first thing I'd do is try to survive the ever-growing xiticic hordes.
AFTER that, I'd dig a channel across Mexico to keep the Vampires out.
Then I'd work on pacifying North America, and selling arms to the NGR.
By the time that's accomplished, my great, great grandchildren would be in charge.

I'd add a few more greats on there.
I don't think the CS, as written, is powerful enough to take out any of those four with the likely exception of the Phoenix Empire as it is written.
It has a population of 100 million (which is how many time that of the Coalition?), and a "Total number of Troops" of 7488. Another 7000 bandits could be added and 20000 supernatural "militia" in emergencies, according to the book. Seriously, I don't know what the author was smoking when he wrote that up, but
Honestly though, considering that there are 5 million Gallu Bulls and 10 million Tautons, and millions of other demons, I think the CS would have a tough fight on its hands as long as we ignored the pathetic Phoenix army.

The Federation of Magic isn't written as a threat to the existence of the CS, so I put them on the "Post-Atlantis" to-do list.

Jack Daniels wrote:I'd add a few more greats on there.

For cryin' out loud, I only have 19 of the Rifts books, how am I supposed to keep up with everything!?

Sir Neil wrote:The Federation of Magic isn't written as a threat to the existence of the CS, so I put them on the "Post-Atlantis" to-do list.

Jack Daniels wrote:I'd add a few more greats on there.

For cryin' out loud, I only have 19 of the Rifts books, how am I supposed to keep up with everything!?

Obviously you have to buy more. . .

Well the CS see the current danger being the Bugs and FofM,both can,t be Negotiate with and want the Genocide of CS.

They Will help the NGR.

Mmm...Mechanoid spaceship shows up over Rifts Earth, blows up all the stupidness that was in Mutants in Orbit, thus freeing the nations of earth to explore space...if they survive.

Sir Neil wrote:As I see it, the major organized threats to humanity are:

Atlantis!!!
Gargoyle Empire
Phoenix Empire
Vampire Kingdoms

If you were the Emperor of the Coalition States, how would you kick them out? In what order?

Agreed and seconded. I would also add the Lord of the Deep and the Alien Intelligence from the Psycape book to the list. The Federation is too fractured and disunited to be more than a secondary threat imo. The only one on the list that no one could really do damage to let alone approach is Atlantis.

Must have a military style take over of the Yucatan Peninsula and bath in the sacred waters of Chichen Itza for eternal life.

I can see the combined forces of say... the NGR and the 2 sane Warlords taking on the Gargoyles and Brodkil and winning. The Phoenix Empire is probably a bit too hard for them to get to with the mediterranean demon sea in between them, unless you want to go through Turkey and down the israeli coast which is close to the Warlords but far from the NGR through some rather hard terrain - so not a recommended option, if they can get to Egypt the can easily take the P.E. even with covert Splugorth support.

BUT - i have seen nothing in any of the books that makes me think that humanity can kick Ol' One Eye of Atlantis, nothing at all. You'd have to amass the combined forces, technological and magical in NA and Europe plus Japan before you'd stand say a 30% chance of pulling it off. Adding in the SA factions might push the odds to 40% those guys are pretty potent.

Ghost wrote:I can see the combined forces of say... the NGR and the 2 sane Warlords taking on the Gargoyles and Brodkil and winning. The Phoenix Empire is probably a bit too hard for them to get to with the mediterranean demon sea in between them, unless you want to go through Turkey and down the israeli coast which is close to the Warlords but far from the NGR through some rather hard terrain - so not a recommended option, if they can get to Egypt the can easily take the P.E. even with covert Splugorth support.

BUT - i have seen nothing in any of the books that makes me think that humanity can kick Ol' One Eye of Atlantis, nothing at all. You'd have to amass the combined forces, technological and magical in NA and Europe plus Japan before you'd stand say a 30% chance of pulling it off. Adding in the SA factions might push the odds to 40% those guys are pretty potent.

And that's just if you have to fight his Atlantis Garrison all by itself.

Check out your Rifts: Atlantis books for the numbers which you might not believe otherwise:

Splynncryth's Earthly Getaway has more warriors, alone, than the entire population of North America has total people!!!

If I inherited the absolute rule of the Coalition States...

Enemy #1: Illiteracy
The greatest threat to the CS is the illiteracy and ignorance of its populace. High technology requires high education to conceive, design, model, construct, test, and mass produce effectively. Keeping the people illiterate was an asenine and self-destructive idea.
I would institute a public library and public education system. I would require all CS soldiers and government workers to be literate. I would commission an encyclopedia project to educate the people on their world and its many threats.

Enemy #2: The Rifts
The biggest threat outside of the CS isn't any one group. It's the rifts themselves. To quote Hamlet I'd "...rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not of". There's always a bigger fish out there in the Megaverse, and as long as the Rifts keep opening, the bigger fish will keep coming.
Magic is a reality of the new world. I would re-open a carefully-regulated magic division, with extra emphasis on ley line and nexus control, intelligence, and weather manipulation. I would build heavily-fortified pyramids on every nexus and unconnected ley line within the CS. I would pit my magic corps agains the Federation of Magic. With us controlling all the ley lines and nexuses, the Federation would be at a major disadvantage. As for the Gateway in St Louis, if I couldn't find a way to close it, I would take a page from Stargate: SG-1 and install an iris-like mechanism to block all incoming travel.

Enemy #3: The Unnecessary Enemies
Why does the CS make war on people who represent little to no threat? It's stupid. Really stupid.
I would establish friendly diplomatic relations with every human-dominated settlement and organization in North America. I would attempt to contact the New Navy and that ex-mercenary-slave group in South America. I would create alliances against the most urgent threats, specifically the Xiticix, the vampires, unorganized supernatural predators, and Atlantean raiders. I would formally recognize Lazlo as a Debee reservation and establish trade. They would have peace provided they fight the Xiticix and accept debee deportees.

Enemy #4: Fear of the Wild
Too many people in the CS huddle under the protection of Chi-Town and other fortified cities. Bunching up in the cities is bad for humanity's long-term prospects. If humanity is to re-take North America, it has to stop cowering in its cities and step out into the wild.
I would require basic military training and membership in the reserves for all adults of an appropriate age. I would establish a ministry of pioneering to organize, encourage, and outfit people willing to move into unsettled lands. I would offer free (or very inexpensive) weapons, armor, and equipment for anyone willing to move away from the city and into the wilderness.

Enemy #5: The Enemies Without
The two biggest threats to humanity in North America are the Xiticix and the Vampires. Every other threat is too poorly organized, too far away, or not interested in enslaving/killing every human in North America. These two threats are the gravest, and most present threats to every human in North America.
Against the Xiticix, I would use a full-court press. I would put together an alliance against the bugs. I'd gather intel on each hive, and train and equip my soldiers accordingly. Then I'd go after them. Bug by bug, queen by queen, hive by hive. I would eliminate them by whatever means necessary. The Xiticix lands would be divided up among the allies.

Against vampires, I'd use a different kind of full-court press. I'd use weather control magic to make it rain in Mexico all night, every night. I'd paint crosses on every door, window, street sign, helmet... pretty much everywhere. I'd also get crosses tattooed on all my soldiers. If I can get a True Atlantean or Chiang-Ku dragon to help me out, I'd get the impervious-to-vampire tatoo on them too. I'd send special units to all vampire-affected towns, with soldiers, dog boys, psi-stalkers, and a magic crew that can put up eternal globes of daylight all around town. These teams would root out and eliminate all vampires from the town and then take steps to ensure that no vampire can ever return there. With all the vampire kingdoms eliminated, I'd annex or settle Mexico.

Enemy #6: The Enemy Within
With the aforementioned threats eliminated, I would become the greatest threat to the Coalition. Power corrupts, and no-one should be trusted with absolute power for life. Great war leaders need to move on once their war is over. Power needs limits, checks, and balances. I would take steps to transition the government into a representative republic. I would gradually cede all my powers to that government, until I was sure of its strength and integrity. Then I would abdicate, leaving the governing to elected leaders while I'd lead an expedition of volunteers to aid the NGR against the gargoyles and brodkil. I would only return to the CS for a quiet and private retirement in some frontier community.

You seem to think that my ideas are too optimistic even in the make-believe world of Rifts. I disagree.

Consider how the Coalition has changed just in the last hundred years. They used to have a magic division. They weren't a dictatorship. Illiteracy wasn't a matter of public policy.

All that propaganda can be reversed within a single generation. People can be educated. Lasting treaties and alliances can be made with former enemies. The wild can be tamed. Men of great power can give up that power.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but it would be possible, and in my opinion, it would be the best approach to establishing North America as the stronghold of humanity.

And I would advise against becoming any kind of megaversal market. Aside from the ire that would attract from Splynncryth, it would be contrary to my number 2 goal of closing the rifts down.

Magic_Raph_Inc wrote:Oh Beloved:
Giving litteracy to the people!
Way to go, CS, would abandon their greatest mean of control over their population? Let me laugh a bit. (Like it would happen in the U.S. anyhow)

Please explain this further, I don't think I understand your meaning, especially the part in parenthesis.

As for the rest, I didn't mention going after the Splugorth or the Lord of the Deep. The only two external threats that I would target would be the Xiticix and the vampires. This isn't a "take back the whole planet" strategy, it's a "take back North America" strategy. The question was what would you do if you became emperor. This was my plan. It's about making the continent safe for widespread human settlement to set the stage for the next generation.

I know the title of the thread is "Take Back the Earth", but a global campaign is something totally beyond the scope of the CS's present capabilities.

My assessment of the individual external threats to the CS:

Xiticix and Vampire Kingdoms: As I already said, these would be my two primary offensive campaigns.

Federation of Magic: I would take a divide and conquer approach. Offer incentives for members of the FoM to join the CS magic division. Play different factions against each other. Nexus by nexus, ley line by ley line, I'd take and hold key points within the magic zone, building heavily fortified pyramids as I went. I'd seek to bring order and control to the magic zone. Human magic-users would be allowed to stay under certain conditions. Non-humans would have to go to Lazlo or some other Debee reservation.

ARCHIE: I don't see him and his robots as a major threat to the CS. Not yet, anyway. As the Coalition expands, this will be one of the challenges to overcome, but I think the best solution would be to convince or reprogram the computer to work with and for the Coalition.

Atlantis: Too big, too powerful to confront directly. The best the CS can hope to do is to repel slave raiders until it just becomes unprofitable for Atlantis to raid North America. A possible long-term solution could be to have Debee reservations near some lightly-defended parts the Atlantic coast.

Lord of the Deep: The CS is primarily a land power. Deep sea conflict is effectively beyond their scope. Until the CS grows a lot more, I don't see this as being an enemy they can realistically fight.

Gargoyles/Brodkill: Other than providing assistance to the NGR when possible, there isn't much the CS can do on this front.

Phoenix Empire: Represents no immediate threat to the CS or its interests, and is too far away to effectively attack.

That just about covers all the large, organized threats that I see. Like I said, the CS is its own worst enemy. If it can truly master itself, most of the threats out there can be effectively defeated, or at least checked.

Hotrod wrote:Lord of the Deep: The CS is primarily a land power. Deep sea conflict is effectively beyond their scope. Until the CS grows a lot more, I don't see this as being an enemy they can realistically fight.

Or have to fear. The LotD, personally, can't reach the Coalition at all; Japan to the Chicago is about 6000 miles, which is about 3 times what the LotD can manage. Now, his minions might threaten elsewhere, but he, personally, can't get involved.

Hotrod wrote:Nexus by nexus, ley line by ley line, I'd take and hold key points within the magic zone, building heavily fortified pyramids as I went. I'd seek to bring order and control to the magic zone.

Did you recruit Atlanteans into your forces? How do you know how to build pyramids? That is a very specific knowledge set, at least according to Atlantis, and is not widely known even on an interdimensional level. If you did recruit Atlanteans, how do they feel about

Hotrod wrote:Non-humans would have to go to Lazlo or some other Debee reservation.

and

Hotrod wrote: A possible long-term solution could be to have Debee reservations near some lightly-defended parts the Atlantic coast.

With so many of them Crusaders for Life, as opposed to Crusaders for Humanity, Atlanteans might not share certain biases in the above quoted text.

All in all however, a very reasonable set of priorities and expectations of what can be accomplished. The only problem overall is that I think it would take generations to accomplish all of them, simply due to limitations of human population growth, which would require you to be something other than completely human to see your plans through to their conclusion.

Jack Daniels wrote:

Hotrod wrote:Nexus by nexus, ley line by ley line, I'd take and hold key points within the magic zone, building heavily fortified pyramids as I went. I'd seek to bring order and control to the magic zone.

Did you recruit Atlanteans into your forces? How do you know how to build pyramids? That is a very specific knowledge set, at least according to Atlantis, and is not widely known even on an interdimensional level. If you did recruit Atlanteans, how do they feel about

Hotrod wrote:Non-humans would have to go to Lazlo or some other Debee reservation.

and

Hotrod wrote: A possible long-term solution could be to have Debee reservations near some lightly-defended parts the Atlantic coast.

With so many of them Crusaders for Life, as opposed to Crusaders for Humanity, Atlanteans might not share certain biases in the above quoted text.

All in all however, a very reasonable set of priorities and expectations of what can be accomplished. The only problem overall is that I think it would take generations to accomplish all of them, simply due to limitations of human population growth, which would require you to be something other than completely human to see your plans through to their conclusion.

That's a very reasonable challenge to my hypothetical foreign policy. Regarding the pyramid technology, I honestly don't remember how common it's supposed to be. This is something of a cop-out, but this hypothetical situation has ME being emperor; I know that the technology exists and I'm familiar with its effects. Now as for how I'd discover this in-game, and how I'd acquire the secrets of magic pyramids, I'm not entirely certain. With or without pyramid technology, I'd certainly spend a lot of time and resources finding ways to control nexuses and control the rifts.

I know a Great Horned Dragon in England built a pyramid in England, as did the Phoenix empire and Atlantis. None of them have "Crusader for Life" True Atlantean types. Additionally, True Atlanteans have helped purge the earth of supernatural threats in the past, and the present Rift problem is one for which their civilization was largely responsible. All I'd need would be one stone master willing to help me. If there are True Atlanteans who think that slaughtering the rest of their race is a good idea, then there must be some who think that shutting down the rifts is a good idea, even if it means that some innocent debees who don't belong there get forcibly removed.

What can I say? I'm a human supremecist. I think it's important for humans to make a stand for their planet, or at least North America.

[EDIT] I neglected to respond to the multi-generational challenge. That's also a good point. I think that spreading people out into the wild generally encourages them to make lots of babies (birth rates tend to be higher in rural areas), though, and I could institute policies to encourage strong population growth. I'm not saying that I could achieve human domination of North America in a single generation. Wiping out the Xiticix and Vampire threats in a single generation is ambitious, but doable, I think. They pyramid project would be an ongoing one. The idea is to eliminate the worst threats and set the stage for strong population and territorial growth.

Shoot, I'd WANT to abdicate/resign before humanity dominates North America. Otherwise some crackpots might credit our success to the dictatorship and not the empowerment of the people, and work to keep the CS under autocratic rule.

okay hotrod this is the only time i am going to agree with you

Hotrod wrote:That's a very reasonable challenge to my hypothetical foreign policy. Regarding the pyramid technology, I honestly don't remember how common it's supposed to be. This is something of a cop-out, but this hypothetical situation has ME being emperor; I know that the technology exists and I'm familiar with its effects. Now as for how I'd discover this in-game, and how I'd acquire the secrets of magic pyramids, I'm not entirely certain. With or without pyramid technology, I'd certainly spend a lot of time and resources finding ways to control nexuses and control the rifts.

I know a Great Horned Dragon in England built a pyramid in England, as did the Phoenix empire and Atlantis. None of them have "Crusader for Life" True Atlantean types. Additionally, True Atlanteans have helped purge the earth of supernatural threats in the past, and the present Rift problem is one for which their civilization was largely responsible. All I'd need would be one stone master willing to help me. If there are True Atlanteans who think that slaughtering the rest of their race is a good idea, then there must be some who think that shutting down the rifts is a good idea, even if it means that some innocent debees who don't belong there get forcibly removed.

What can I say? I'm a human supremecist. I think it's important for humans to make a stand for their planet, or at least North America.

Fair enough. There are a number of instances where non-Atlanteans seem to have pyramid building technology, which is yet another example of Palladium's editing inconsistencies.
It's also a very good point you make about the different factions of Atlanteans. If only other races were so, multifaceted, in their presentation.
So building the pyramids is certainly not an impossibility, but getting a human-supremacist country to accept the assistance of a non-human (by their definition if not technically in fact) might still be a problem.
Changing the cultural mores to accept magic and d-bees is, again, a multi-generational task. Look at the history of racial equality in America, and that's just within the human species. It's taken 400 years to reach where we are now, and we're not even yet at the level of full acceptance with a situation that should be much simpler than what you're proposing.

Jack Daniels wrote:So building the pyramids is certainly not an impossibility, but getting a human-supremacist country to accept the assistance of a non-human (by their definition if not technically in fact) might still be a problem.
Changing the cultural mores to accept magic and d-bees is, again, a multi-generational task. Look at the history of racial equality in America, and that's just within the human species. It's taken 400 years to reach where we are now, and we're not even yet at the level of full acceptance with a situation that should be much simpler than what you're proposing.

I agree that changing people's opinions on magic and debees would be a long and difficult process. I don't advocate trying to do it all at once. I'm all about the baby steps.

In regards to magic, the CS has an OCC that is very familiar with ley line energies, to the point where he can use them for some beneficial effects. Expanding on this department to include ley line and nexus control wouldn't be too much of a stretch; that brings pyramid technology and stone magic. Ley lines can cause weather abnormalities. Researching ways to control this (i.e. weather control magic) seems like a reasonable step, too. And if that control can help stabilize regions around a ley line AND can be used to the benefit of regions away from ley lines, why not use it elsewhere? And if weather control magic becomes accepted, we can use that against the vampires. If we use weather control magic as a weapon, why not use other forms of magic to improve our lives, defend our homes, and destroy our enemies?

Of course, magic users would have to be very subtle about how they do business, and there would have to be strict controls in place. Every magic team would have to have its own psi-stalker as a check on its power. Magic use would be very tightly-regulated at first, but as time went by, the regulations could loosen, to a point. In the long run, though, magic could provide a useful check against the natural power of psionics in the CS.

As for debees, I think it would be nice to have a place in CS society for many of them. For this generation, however, that is effectively an impossibility. Just moving from an extermination to forced-relocation-to-a-reservation policy would be a big step. The next step would be trade and travel priviledges for select debees. After that, segregated volunteer debee units in the military, with limited citizenship for those who join and work visas for debees to live permanently outside the reservation. Then comes voting rights and desegregation. That would take many generations, I think, and would be on a species-by-species basis. Human-like debees like dwarves, gnomes, and elves would have a much easier time than lizard men, troglodites, or giants.

Hotrod wrote:
I agree that changing people's opinions on magic and debees would be a long and difficult process. I don't advocate trying to do it all at once. I'm all about the baby steps.

In regards to magic, the CS has an OCC that is very familiar with ley line energies, to the point where he can use them for some beneficial effects. Expanding on this department to include ley line and nexus control wouldn't be too much of a stretch; that brings pyramid technology and stone magic. Ley lines can cause weather abnormalities. Researching ways to control this (i.e. weather control magic) seems like a reasonable step, too. And if that control can help stabilize regions around a ley line AND can be used to the benefit of regions away from ley lines, why not use it elsewhere? And if weather control magic becomes accepted, we can use that against the vampires. If we use weather control magic as a weapon, why not use other forms of magic to improve our lives, defend our homes, and destroy our enemies?

Of course, magic users would have to be very subtle about how they do business, and there would have to be strict controls in place. Every magic team would have to have its own psi-stalker as a check on its power. Magic use would be very tightly-regulated at first, but as time went by, the regulations could loosen, to a point. In the long run, though, magic could provide a useful check against the natural power of psionics in the CS.

As for debees, I think it would be nice to have a place in CS society for many of them. For this generation, however, that is effectively an impossibility. Just moving from an extermination to forced-relocation-to-a-reservation policy would be a big step. The next step would be trade and travel priviledges for select debees. After that, segregated volunteer debee units in the military, with limited citizenship for those who join and work visas for debees to live permanently outside the reservation. Then comes voting rights and desegregation. That would take many generations, I think, and would be on a species-by-species basis. Human-like debees like dwarves, gnomes, and elves would have a much easier time than lizard men, troglodites, or giants.

That's probably the best rationalization for doing away with the CS xenophobia and magiphobia, and best plan, that I've seen in a while. I think your "human supremacist" credentials are to be questioned. You are clearly not a true believer!!!

Congratulations.