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By the rules, nothing prevents this. I have some alternate rules that I use that gives anyone who is targeted directly by TK an attempt to save (not dodge, save).

The problem is that it's not "being creative"... it's an easy tactic to abuse and, since there's not much of a canon defense against it (it works out to "always have your hands on something solid so they can't rip you off the ground"), it quickly becomes the primary tactic used by the psychic.

If you allow a save, it's still a valid tactic, but the psychic has to decide if it's worth it to try, or if he wants to try something else... like using TK to throw a fusion block (or table, or fragment of floor) at someone, or to steal their weapons. If they turn into pure gunners because you don't let them throw people, that's because they lack creativity, not because that's the only thing they can throw.

Shadow Of Solace wrote:If a psychic can only be a gun-bunny or throw people with TK, they arent much of a psychic. there are plenty of creative uses for TK without trying that.

Also, i dont know where your pulling your range from, but its 100 ft/ lv where im looking. (im speaking of SUPER TK mind you) as a GM to make an encounter challenging at the least, i would need to meta-game, and make people immune to that somehow, or attack him from a ridiculous distance. Its a simple abuse of non-specific rules, and extremely unbalanced.

What about other things that have nearly no way to prevent the damage, such as the spells Fireball, Call Lightning, Carpet of Adhesion, Cloud of Ash, ect. What do you do then? Give all the victims Immune to Magic?

Greetings and Salutations. Okay, just to make a few points as stated earlier. First, to the example of The Last Darkness. You have your damages wrong of Super Telekinesis. Now, it does depend on setting. In SDC settings it does 1D4x10 per 100 pounds, so your 200 pound person in the example is suffering 2D4x10 per action. Now, in Rifts it's not too bad (most ranged weapons can do more, but my rulings will cover all settings, not just one, so it's important to take all into consideration), but in SDC settings it can be far worse. In a setting such as PF where people don't have much SDC or HP, it's potentially one or two hit kills, for a power that lasts two minutes letting you grab as many as victims as you can until the time runs out. Now while I don't mind some power, that's just a little too easy to kill someone who can't dodge and can't save (basically NO chance whatsoever).

The second point would be to nameneeded referring to rolling to hit. While this is true, just wait until second level. Now you can grab two people, smash them into each other, get full damage on both, and unless you roll a 1 (STK provides a +3 to strike) you're going to hit, end of story. Now again, this can get ISP costly, I'll grant that, but still way too easy (in my opinion).

Third point is to verdilak. Fireball and Call Lightning can both be dodged (hard, but can be done). Cloud of Ash isn't much damage and you can move out of the way (not trapped with no save, no dodge, no movement, nothing! Yes, you can argue you can try to throw things or shoot at the psychic, if you know which one it is, but that's easily fixed by turning the victim into an angle they can't get sight on the individual). As for Carpet of Adhesion, yeah, that one is messed up, I won't argue that one. Though, oddly enough, none of my players have ever used it and I as a player have never used it (though I know why I avoid it, I just don't like it for that very reason, too easy).

Now, just a personal impression, this isn't creative. If none of you have seen it before, I must say I am amazed (not saying anything bad, just honestly shocked). I will admit I have my own rules on this use and make those clear in the games, but I will also state that if I nearly every character with Telekinesis I've ever run for has attempted this at one time or another (sometimes players forget, sometimes they try to sneak it passed, sometimes they missed when it was stated, but usually attempted sooner or later).

I also don't consider it creative (in my opinion) because it is such a common tactic I've seen used. In fact, if anything, it tends to more lead to one trick ponies who do nothing but, which in my opinion makes just boring combat (more my motivation for ruling against it more than balance). I like creativity, I like players to think and be original. I want to see players do something that I can say, "Wow! I never thought of that before!" and be excited. Tricks like what is being described just make me sigh and roll my eyes because it lacks any real creativity (in my opinion). There are ways around even the rules I've set in, I've stopped to think about them. I don't mind leaving those avenues open because it would involve the player to actually stop and think of how to make something work as opposed to rolling a simple dice and having everything handed to them. Granted, I could think of ways around the auto-win as well, and I have and could use it with a few limited NPC, but all in all combat in general would be boring (because most NPC wouldn't have those options open to them, and I won't metagame every NPC to have them available to keep things interesting because then I'm the one making combat boring to counter their boring combat and that's just an ugly, ugly cycle ). All right, I think that's about it for now. Have a nice day to all. Farewell and safe journeys.

As far as the one trick pony goes, you see it with nearly every class. Longbowmen, Gunslingers, ect. Classes that are meant to rely on one thing. Mages rely on magic, Psionics rely on Psionics, Glitterboy Pilots rely on their GB's.

I listed Cloud of Ash for a reason. If you save vs the magic, you still take 1d6 dmg per melee round, blinded for 1d6 melees, -9 to strike, -9 dodge, -9 dodge. Not so simple to run away if you are blind.

On the creativity thing, why must there be a creative solution to every problem? Say there is a locked door, and my psychic needs to get in. Sure he could try to pick the lock, but oh, so uncreative. So he uses Astral Projection to get inside and Telekinesis to unlock the door. Is that creative? Not really, he is using his psionics to get around a problem. I guess he could go find a locksmith to make him a diagram of the inside of the lok and try to use telekinesis to push the tumblers the right way to unlock it that way. Its a stretch of the rules, but it's still him using an ability he has. Or he could use his silent wilks laser and shoot the lock off, making no noise at all.

You can see that for every class. What would be a creative way to get into the house? Go down the chimney? Thats Santa's gig. Dig under the door? What if the floor isnt dirt. I am not trying to be a smart-ass, I am really trying to understand what is you idea of what constitutes as a creative action.

Shadow, if your players can do it, so can your enemies. If they can't, neither can the enemies. I mean, thats a good balance don't you think? Of course it's up to the GM to determine what can and cannot be done, but thats not what this thread really is about.

To see if STK can move people, you have to look at TK, because if STK can do it, so can regular TK. The only limitations in TK is the word "objects". Depending on what your definition of objects determines what you can do with it. TK says

...can make an object hop, fall, roll, rise into the air, suspend it there (hover) or make it fly across the room.

That kinda sounds like Levitation. So lets look at that.

Levitation wrote:Large objects or people..

As far as I am concerned, it is already shown how the author isnt afraid to designate if a power can affect people or not and thinks that objects and people are two different things. So no, TK nor STK can move people in canon.

But lets say you are thinking about letting your players use TK/STK to do so. To levitate a 125lb person, it takes 17 ISP with Levitation, with TK it would cost 19 ISP, STK would cost 20 (since it only stakes 10 ISP for every 100 pounds). So yea, I could see where people might want to use the powers like that, but it wouldnt be canon.

Just going to toss an idea in there since I love and abuse TK since its pretty much an uber power.

1. If the player wants to pick someone up and throw them across the room with either TK or STK they must first use levitate and then use TK or STK for the throw. This is basically like self serving a baseball where you toss it up yourself then smack it in the direction of your choice.

2. If you want to disarm an opponent of their weapon since TK and STK have weight limits based on how much ISP you use I make the target of the disarm roll a strength check based on their PS and have the psychic use a predetermined amount of ISP or weight limit that they want to pull the weapon away with.

Example...soldier has a gun pointed and drawn on the psychic with a firm grip telling the psychic to get on the ground or he'll fire. Psychic decides to use STK to pull the gun from the soldiers hands. Psychic spends 30 ISP giving him 300lbs of force with which to tear the weapon out of his hands. Soldier makes a strength check vs the 300 lb attack.

Its alot of work to do but thats the price you pay for wanting to use that maneuver. A different way to do that, that would be simpler would be to state how much ISP your going to spend, make an ME check and then if you make your strike roll have the target make a strength check vs. your ME + the added weight from TK.

3. The character decides to grab his opponents arms and rip them off from the sockets...same thing as above but its much harder since its dependent on the size of the limb or body part their attacking. Also, takes multiple actions to perform these feats.

Grabbing the "object" is one action and moving it is another action, so to rip off both arms on a person would require 4 actions as a 1st level person and only 2 actions for anyone higher than 1st level since TK allows you to make multiple targets the higher level you get.

4. Character is 5th level and wants to attack 5 different called spots on a target (chest, head, right arm, left leg, and left hand) roll 5 different called shots and declare the amount of ISP being used against each limb. Make strength checks if they are grabs or roll damage if they are just pushing with that much force at each target.

So yeah, those are just some of the ways I deal with TK and STK, the only thing that needs to be remembered really is that TK is more for fine movements while STK is brute force. TK is force choke while STK is force push.

Hope that helped a little...if not then oh well

verdilak wrote:On the creativity thing, why must there be a creative solution to every problem?

I didn't say there needed to be a creative solution to every problem. However, The Last Darkness said that people who put blocks in the way of it (a saving throw, for example) were "punish[ing] players for being creative." I took issue with that being considered creative.

As a general design principle, I dislike powers which cannot be defended against being available at low levels. I don't like the Rifts version of Call Lightning for this reason. TK technically requires a Strike roll, but that strike roll is made at a +3, and requires, at best, an 8 or higher to hit... meaning it will be successful 75% or the time. There is little real defense against it; you cannot dodge something you cannot see coming, you cannot parry an incorporeal force, you cannot roll with it. If the telekinetic is willing to spend the ISP necessary to pick you up (and most GMs will tell him how much he needs after he tries, rather than making him declare then trying to lift you), then there's little you can do about it. There's no way to break free, there's no way to resist it post facto... you are caught in something more sure than Carpet of Adhesion.

Once lifted, you have to determine which is the psychic. You MIGHT be able to shoot him, or your buddies might, provided he's not hiding or protected (why should he expose himself, when all he needs to do is watch to pick someone up and use them as a weapon?). Meanwhile, you are being used to batter your friends like a giant baseball bat, or being held still so his buddies can shoot you easily, or carried to where they can capture you. Unless you have a jetpack which can generate sufficient force to break you free (and before he can react), you're at their mercy.

Providing a saving throw doesn't prevent this tactic from working. It's still a perfectly valid tactic, and very useful. However, it means that the character so targeted has some defense against it... which is much more satisfying for a PC, and much less frustrating for a GM who finds his game derailed by PCs playing catch with the NPCs.

The whole grabbing thing I think is really abused now that I think of the actual mechanics of STK and TK. When you use those powers to grab someone if you don't state a specific target then you, by default, attack the main body. So if you say your going to grab someone and don't specify where, then you just grab his torso or something thats visible on his torso like body armor or a shirt, necklace, etc.

So even though you've got ahold of his torso his arms are still free to flail about however they want...meaning he can still shoot you. Also, the grab counts as 1 attack and the throw counts as 1 attack... so its not like its an instantaneous action that you grab them and slam them into someone/ something, and when you do throw them, lets say you snagged a Gunfighter... his flailing about into other people, as long as he's not rendered unconscious will not affect his aim terribly because he can always use his trickshooting skills and plink you in the head or some other extremity.

In SDC settings it does 1D4x10 per 100 pounds, so your 200 pound person in the example is suffering 2D4x10 per action.

Thats only if the player declared it a crushing attack, otherwise he'd be holding the target and not doing anything. He could say for example... "I'm going to grab his arm and crush it at the elbow" 2 seperate actions, 1st is grab, next is crush his elbow (which requires a called shot). The psychic will still retain his grib on the targets arm even after he crushes the joint but if he wants to make it an attack he has to keep rolling called shots and declare the amount of ISP he's going to use on the attack as well as spend ISP per 2 minutes if he wants to retain his grip on that persons appendage.

Thats another thing I think is not noticed. You don't spend the ISP for STK and get to use it for 2 minutes however you want, you only gain control of your target for 2 minutes and if you switch then you have to spend ISP again. So if you targeted a box and started to move it around like a club and then switched to a dumpster and started swinging that around, you'd have to spend the ISP again. This puts a HUGE restriction on the use of the power making the Psychic spend his ISP wisely if he wants to go around throwing people into ****.

Ahulane wrote:The whole grabbing thing I think is really abused now that I think of the actual mechanics of STK and TK. When you use those powers to grab someone if you don't state a specific target then you, by default, attack the main body. So if you say your going to grab someone and don't specify where, then you just grab his torso or something thats visible on his torso like body armor or a shirt, necklace, etc.

So even though you've got ahold of his torso his arms are still free to flail about however they want...meaning he can still shoot you. Also, the grab counts as 1 attack and the throw counts as 1 attack... so its not like its an instantaneous action that you grab them and slam them into someone/ something, and when you do throw them, lets say you snagged a Gunfighter... his flailing about into other people, as long as he's not rendered unconscious will not affect his aim terribly because he can always use his trickshooting skills and plink you in the head or some other extremity.

In SDC settings it does 1D4x10 per 100 pounds, so your 200 pound person in the example is suffering 2D4x10 per action.

Thats only if the player declared it a crushing attack, otherwise he'd be holding the target and not doing anything. He could say for example... "I'm going to grab his arm and crush it at the elbow" 2 seperate actions, 1st is grab, next is crush his elbow (which requires a called shot). The psychic will still retain his grib on the targets arm even after he crushes the joint but if he wants to make it an attack he has to keep rolling called shots and declare the amount of ISP he's going to use on the attack as well as spend ISP per 2 minutes if he wants to retain his grip on that persons appendage.

Thats another thing I think is not noticed. You don't spend the ISP for STK and get to use it for 2 minutes however you want, you only gain control of your target for 2 minutes and if you switch then you have to spend ISP again. So if you targeted a box and started to move it around like a club and then switched to a dumpster and started swinging that around, you'd have to spend the ISP again. This puts a HUGE restriction on the use of the power making the Psychic spend his ISP wisely if he wants to go around throwing people into ****.

Greetings and Salutations. Now, by no means think I limit myself to the letter of the book, but when discussing the matters on the forums I do my best to stick to the rules as written. Now, while some of what you described can work and may help limit, that's not really the way it is written (at least not all of it). And yes, I'll explain why I'm saying that.

Now with the gunfighter example, true enough. Even if the psychic was smart enough to turn the individual around so he can't see him/her, the gunfighter may be able to use a trick shot firing over the shoulder with a mirror, ricochet shot, etc. Now, let's take that same concept into a setting such as Palladium Fantasy (I will say I like rules to apply to all settings, not just when it is convenient). Any men at arms is effectively doomed (even a long bowmen, if caught, can't fire over their shoulder). Psychics involve line of sight, so unless they have an equal or better version of telekinesis (not all psychics do), they're just as doomed. Mages actually have the best chance. Granted, there are always possibilities to work through, but on average, most will be powerless. Now this is not the matter I intended to address, just thought I'd mention it as I went through.

Okay, the comment of it taking multiple attacks ... actually, that's not the way it is written in the book sadly. While that would make it nicer, that's not what is written. Read the example given (unless changed in R:UE).

For Example: A psychic with four hand to hand attacks per melee can perform four attacks with telekinesis. First, he makes a flower vase fly from the table {snip excess}. Second, he makes the lantern hurl {snip excess}. Third, the table is suddenly fipped up on end and, fourth, the door is flung open. Four melee attacks or actions using telekinesis.

That's clearly showing manipulating four different items in four actions, not a single action required to grab it. Now, I'm not saying one to grab the item may not be nice and smart, but it's not the way it's actually written (at least not that I can find).

All right, similarly, the mention for only manipulating one object per use, and then manipulating a second option requires a second use. Again, I can't find any reference to suggest this. There is the example again, not once mentioning spending it multiple times. Then there is also the other quote starting two sentences above the example.

Several objects can be telekinetically thrown around within the same melee round, but not simultaneously. The psychic can only concentrate on one item at a time.

Now, I can see where it says you can manipulate several objects, but not once stating it will only work on one for the entire use of the ability. So, as far as I can tell, there is no spending new ISP to manipulate a new object (unless it's not within the current weight limit). Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with the power as written, but being on the forum I'm looking at the way it is written (not a house rule). If you can actually tell me where it says you have to spend new ISP per item, I'd love to see it. As of yet, no one has given me a reference of all the other times I've heard people say it. I don't mind being wrong, honest!

Now, as for having to spend the time crushing, again, as near as I can figure it's not the case. Actually, as best as I can figure you can't crush with telekinesis. What you can do is throw people around. So, 1D4x10 (SDC settings, Super Telekinesis) per 100 pounds for hurling the object. So throw the individual into a wall, into the floor, into a vehicle, into an opponent, and, as near as I can tell, they'll take damage as a result of the force from being hurled.

Again, I'm not saying this is the way I play, but I'm doing my best to look at it as it is written. I personally house ruled the matter a long time ago, as have many others. Some are the same, some are not, but if I'm going to respond to a thread, unless specifically being asked for how I house rule something, I'll stick with the book answer as near as I can find. Now again, if you can actually give me a book reference of how this is wrong, I'd love it. There are times I like being wrong. Until then, farewell and safe journeys.

I think the main book (either RUE or the old one) has at the bottom of STKs description says that the psychic can manipulate up to 1 object per level. TK may be different in that it only allows for you maximum number of attacks per melee.

Yeah I agree that in Palladium Fantasy, TK and STK are pretty munchkin since you don't really have a whole lot of options for ranged combat like Rifts.

The multiple attacks deal I was just using as a way to abuse the powers description of STK. Basically everything I've said, save a few things, are just ways I use the power personally. Guess I should have made that a little clearer huh?

Greetings and Salutations. And my apologies if it seemed like I was attacking you, that was not intended. Yeah, I have nothing with house rules, though I suppose I've seen many people state some of those things as the official answer, but I just haven't found it yet (it might be, I just don't know where it's located then). I may have been quicker to respond and not worded it more peacefully if it came off badly (if it did, again I apologize). As for the note on Super Telekinesis only able to limit 1 item per level I didn't take that the duration only works on one item. I've personally always taken it (I could be wrong as it doesn't state more clearly) is that it means you can manipulate one object per level each turn.

For clarity, I'll give an example (using people since that is what this whole thread is about). A first level Mind Mage uses STK to pick up a Timmy the Knight (lame name, I know). Timmy gets hurt, but lives and limps off rather mad. He goes home, trains some more, and now comes back with two of his friends for some revenge. Now our knight Timmy realizes he might get thrown around, but he has his two friends to back him up if that happens (planning in action). Unfortunately, by this point our Mind Mage has reached third level, because he's been training too. So our Mind Mage lifts up all three individuals and throws them around, smacking them into each other, etc. He's able to throw all three of them at the same time (one object per level of experience, third level, three people). Now granted, our Mind Mage will need to spend enough ISP to move 600 pounds (considering each person is 200 pounds, just for the example) as the weight limit is "total weight capacity" (not using it 3 times, just that all three add up to it).

Now, I'll grant, it's possible the "one object per level" may mean total, not at the same time. However, considering it's the Super version of the Physical psionic, it would just seem odd it became more limited (at least as I have read it). Now I could see the case being made to say it has enough other bonuses that this one limitation isn't such a big deal, but it's just not the way I've interpreted. I mainly thought I'd point out the alternate way to take it (and let others judge for themselves). Farewell and safe journeys.

Prysus, the 1 object per level can be found in RUE page 182, its at the end of the description of Telekinesis (Super).

"The psychic can manipulate up to 1 object per level of experiance provided it doesn't exceed his maximum weight limit"

And my apologies if it seemed like I was attacking you, that was not intended. Yeah, I have nothing with house rules, though I suppose I've seen many people state some of those things as the official answer, but I just haven't found it yet (it might be, I just don't know where it's located then). I may have been quicker to respond and not worded it more peacefully if it came off badly (if it did, again I apologize).

No need, its cool.

I've personally always taken it (I could be wrong as it doesn't state more clearly) is that it means you can manipulate one object per level each turn.

That's a very interesting thought really...if they can manipulate 1 object per level does that mean they can only manipulate one of those objects each turn regardless of how many he can actually move?

Now, I'll grant, it's possible the "one object per level" may mean total, not at the same time. However, considering it's the Super version of the Physical psionic, it would just seem odd it became more limited (at least as I have read it).

No, no, I don't think we want to over-think that there. Just leave it at one object/level, and each object he wishes to manipulate costs an action. Allow him to use STK on those objects for the stated duration. If they were allowed to move all of the objects that they are allowed to manipulate each level by only using one attack then this power would be crazy.

Remember though, STK is brute force and TK is finess

Because I feel I answered the OP on whether or not the power can be used to through people around cannonly, and since noone is really responding...

verdilak wrote:
To see if STK can move people, you have to look at TK, because if STK can do it, so can regular TK. The only limitations in TK is the word "objects". Depending on what your definition of objects determines what you can do with it. TK says

...can make an object hop, fall, roll, rise into the air, suspend it there (hover) or make it fly across the room.

That kinda sounds like Levitation. So lets look at that.

Levitation wrote:Large objects or people..

As far as I am concerned, it is already shown how the author isnt afraid to designate if a power can affect people or not and thinks that objects and people are two different things. So no, TK nor STK can move people in canon.

But lets say you are thinking about letting your players use TK/STK to do so. To levitate a 125lb person, it takes 17 ISP with Levitation, with TK it would cost 19 ISP, STK would cost 20 (since it only stakes 10 ISP for every 100 pounds). So yea, I could see where people might want to use the powers like that, but it wouldnt be canon.

Greetings and Salutations. First, to verdilak (since the time was taken to make the same point again) I'll take the time to respond to it. I'll agree with your analysis that people are not considered "objects" by the game mechanics, at least I normally do. In fact, in a previous Telekinesis post I made the exact same point. However, with that said, I'll offer this other point from the Rifts GM Guide, page 104, last line of Super Telekinesis (it might be in some other books, but this is the first one I've ever seen it in).

M.D. is only possible with Super Telekinesis and only when the hurled object is 100 lbs (45 kg) or heavier and is a hard material like wood, stone or metal (not people).

This quote is also in R:UE, page 183. The wording of "not people" isn't after it mentions objects, but after it mentions "hard materials." Clearly people were taken into consideration. Now one could argue it's just poorly placed and it meant "not people" at all. The argument is there, though the placement indicates far more strongly they're just not considered "hard materials" and it is allowed otherwise. Go back a few pages on R:UE to page 170 to Telekinesis (to the physical version). The very last paragraph of the power (in the "Note" section after bonuses and damage).

Telekinesis moves, lifts and throws physical objects with the power of the mind, so it may be used to hurl a victim ...

Telekinesis does not allow psychics to levitate themselves or fly, due to the weight limitation (see Super Telekinesis).

Now, look at those two quotes. The first says "hurl a victim" and typically an inanimate "object" isn't considered a "victim." The second one addresses moving the psychic (a person) and says the only reason one can't is due to the "weight limitation." Now that's especially odd since as near as I can find there is no weight limitation except for the I.S.P. cost. However, regardless of that odd comment, it mentions for doing something like that you should see "Super Telekinesis." So, regardless of personal feelings, it does seem to give the impression it is possible. Now, one could make the argument it is different between Rifts and the other settings (as it's not as unbalancing in Rifts as it is in some other settings), but that just starts to get to be a stretch. It's still the same ability, just updated. Will these facts change the way I use telekinesis in my games? Nope, not even close. Are they there and should be recognized for the discussion? Yes, they should.

Ahulane wrote:That's a very interesting thought really...if they can manipulate 1 object per level does that mean they can only manipulate one of those objects each turn regardless of how many he can actually move?

Well, the book doesn't exactly go into detail of it. I will rule what I would allow in something of one of my games (because I actually like my interpretation for various reasons, mainly for visuals as somethings could just look cool ). For example a Mind Mage/Melter, 5th level has Super Telekinesis. This means the Mind Mage can move up to 5 objects all at the same time. There are a few options available here. The psychic can move 5 objects all at the same time and do all the same action. In other words, the psychic could lift 5 books (easily within 100 pounds) off the shelf and gently move them over to the table, or throw them at the wall (wild shot as you can't control all 5 with that much accuracy). Similarly, the psychic could pick up a vase, a brick, and a knife that were sitting on the table and move them all to the same place at the same time.

Another option would be to set items into a certain motion. So, with the book example (from the Physical section) I gave earlier of those four objects. Each of those actions, once done, are done. It won't continue. Now, instead, you can case that vase to circle around the room (on a set course) and then make the lamp rise up to the ceiling and back to the floor over and over again (set course). Then you flip the table up on the end and leave it there. But, while doing this third action, the other two are still taking place because they were set in motion allowing the psychic to keep up the action (not needing to continue focus on it). These abilities aren't really stated in the book, but that would be closer to my interpretation of how it was written (agree or disagree, I thought to answer your question of what I meant). I'd allow some other flexibility and options in there too (some of the other stuff I didn't list being the reason I like mine), but I thought to just give you some of the basics to understand what I meant. All right, that should be all for now. Thank you for your time and patience one and all. Farewell and safe journeys.

Some clarifications I adopted to make easier work of psionics.

1) Anything can be lifted (apart from the self) with telekinesis, so long as it fits inside the weight / ISP restrictions.

2) One object can be manipulated per level at the same time (you ever feel like you can see what got cut from the printed version of a sentence?? that's what I felt here...). The ability to manipulate objects lasts two minutes per level, and in that time, the psionic can manipulate as many objects as they have actions in that time, so long as they do it one at a time (imagine a psionic version of the drinking game "Quarters" - a great mental excercise if ever there was one!)

3) Levitation applies only to the User (use the 6 ISP + 1 ISP per 10 lbs. rule to apply to the weight of the psionic - shouldn't have eaten all those Twinkies, huh?) Telekinesis applies to anything outside the user. They do not cross.

4) Only another psionicist gets a saving throw against being telekinetically manipulated by a psionic character. The saving throw is modified by powers had by the target: +1 for mind block, +2 for mind block auto defense (these two act as a form of "wet soap in the bathtub" for the attacker, merely making it difficult to get a hold of the victim), +3 for telekinesis, +4 for SuperTK, +5 for HyperTK (NeoHumans).

The bonuses are not cumulative, and the defending psionicist has to expend one quarter of the ISP of the defending power (rounded up) to "Dodge" the attackers Telekinetic "Grip". This is a reflex action, and if they still fail, do not get another defense attempt (although they can use their own psionic attack, even a telekinetic one, if their attacker is within range).

As for the Munchkinism of Psionics in the game, consider a few items.

Psionicists are indoctrinated, catalogued, and/or hunted down and killed by the CS. Unregistered Psionicists are an absolute No-Go in CS territory, and they use their own trained psionicists to hunt down other psionicists. People are aware how dangerous psionic abilities are, that is why they are closely monitored.

Even the lowliest psionic character (even latent and wild) can have Detect Psionics, meaning that someone in an area has a liklihood of noticing the source of a telekinetic disturbance in an area. Because the threat is so severe, when someone yells "Psycher!" and points at you, there is a very good chance that you just became the new bonus target of the day (and if you were trying to be the subtle unarmored guy sitting in the cafe while all the !@$#^ went down, then you are hardly going to survive direct heavy weapons fire - note the storyline in New West that describes the combat between the cyberslinger and the TK slinger)

And remember, with rare exception, a first level psionic character is lucky if they have anywhere near 200 ISP, and also remember that the training of psionic abilities also causes a reduction in skill training and bonuses, so after the psionic has burned off their ISP, they don't (typically) have a lot to fall back on (although I think this ruling was rescinded in RUE). You can always reload a gun, but you need recovery time with psionics, unless of course you adopt one of my house rules:

Harvesting The Self
With this action, the psionic has decided to go for broke, as it were, intentionally converting his very life force for a few measly ISP, in a vain attempt to complete some psionic goal. For each ISP this effort generates, the psionic gets 5 ISP per HP, and/or 3 ISP per SDC point "spent".

This damage represents the psionic character pushing beyond the level of his/her internal strength, causing internal bleeding, bruising, organ stress, and even brain hemmhoraging! Damage given to oneself in this manner is very ineffective in healing, and only converts at half these levels used for healing skills (rounded down), and can never heal more (through bio regeneration or other healing abilities) than was sacrificed by the psionic player. Additionally, if used for any action but healing, the damage is severe, and takes triple the time to heal normally (although other psionic or magical healing will help the character, but at double the ISP or PPE cost).

[I have also allowed players to use this ability to "fuse" powers together for dramatic effect (i.e. use super TK to enhance levitation for weight and duration or TK Acceleration Attack to increase damage and range). When used in this way, the player sacrifices 1 HP and 3 SDC (or 5 MDC, if an MDC creature) and can fuse in one additional power for every five levels of experience, rounded down). This is a very touchy house rule to use in this way, and I only allow it if the player has a very good explanation of the combined effect and rationale.]

How about the Psionist is not TKing the living person but the stuff they are wearing, all of which is "objects" (Except for any "living" gear or armor.) He TK's the armor and throws it X feet to slam around the "soft creamy center" inside. Damage to armor and Impact/Collision damage to the the occupant.

Of course, if the person is wearing something like street clothes or some other material that may not support the weight of the person, then chance of just ripping the clothes off the person. Or chance of person's clothes being tossed rips in mid toss and falls to ground as clothes slam into (whatever) X feet away.

This is how I plan and have done it. This thread just reminded me of "This Old House Rule"

Enjoy

bigbobsr6000 wrote:How about the Psionist is not TKing the living person but the stuff they are wearing, all of which is "objects" (Except for any "living" gear or armor.) He TK's the armor and throws it X feet to slam around the "soft creamy center" inside. Damage to armor and Impact/Collision damage to the the occupant.

IMC, it's within his aura, so it's protected by his saving throw.