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sorry gadrin, I am not following what you mean...please elaborate...

from what i have seen no spell strength increase unless it is in an OCC. the super spy and the temporal warrior are hybrids and wont get the bonus unlike llw and shifter who are true spell casters.

2bent2 wrote:from what i have seen no spell strength increase unless it is in an OCC. the super spy and the temporal warrior are hybrids and wont get the bonus unlike llw and shifter who are true spell casters.

sounds fair to me...why should a character who is not devoting his/her full attention to magic get a benefit of an increased spell strength? especially since the LLW and the Shifter's spell strength bonuses are not that high to begin with...

Huh, honestly, I don't remember them ever getting additional spell strength unless it was listed under OCC.

It seems it currently goes by OCC statement.

But don't discard it may be an errata (they even forget about Ley Line/Rifts magic boosting), so feel free to apply it as you see fit

just because it wasn't reprinted dosn't mean it's negated.

Yes, just means the mainbook still has some uses. It is the most up today on the subject.

gadrin wrote:no it looks like the changed it. since it says so specifically.

I think it just means: use whatever was in use when the OCC was made.

Well, that sucks! What about the Battle Magus whose spell strength just says "standard, has a good understanding of the principles of magic"? I understand that they are focused on combat, but they are still part of the Magus Brotherhood and as such be considered to have an understanding of magic at least equal to that of any other dedicated magic user.

gadrin wrote:no it looks like the changed it. since it says so specifically.

I think it just means: use whatever was in use when the OCC was made.

Well, enless they came out and said that no other OCCs get spell strength bonus. I would still use the Mainbook.

Mouser13 wrote:

gadrin wrote:no it looks like the changed it. since it says so specifically.

I think it just means: use whatever was in use when the OCC was made.

Well, enless they came out and said that no other OCCs get spell strength bonus. I would still use the Mainbook.

This would be a right nice idea there Mouser...except....RUE is now 2 years old...its not very likly that new players will have access to a pre RUE main book.

RUE
2nd printing
Page 187
under the heading of magic terms
Spell strength
its says

this number is higher when a spell is cast by a more powerful practioner of magic; typical range is 13-15. Each Magic O.C.C. will indicate at what levels of experience a mage may increase his spell strength.

so in answer to the original question yes it does appear (at first blush) that those classes do get gyped on spell strength.
however many of the books are getting RUE upgrades so this may change...
My suggestion...If you have access to a pre-RUE main book go with what it says about spell strength. If you do not have access to one (odds are good you are a new player to the rifts megaverse) just use what the OCC states as most of the books coming back into print are being RUE updated.

Gravitus Everlast wrote:I thought spell strength and or durations were listed in the spell descriptions themselves... but I think you guys are talking about something entirely different than what I'm thinking of.

Yes, and no their is note on alot of spells that said like +2 to save or -2 save. These where in addition the mage's normal spell strength that we are talking about here.

Example. my 5 level temporal wizard had +2 spell strength so it balance out the +2 of sup animation. SO I like to go around a putting villins in 50 year sleep spell.

jackylcale wrote:I think most any magic occ should gain at least some spell strength as they level up. 12 is a pretty easy save, especially for the type of enemies you could be fighting when you're up to about 8th level or so. I hate it when players say things like " screw it, I'll just attack it with my pulse rifle instead cause it's got a +7 vs magic, there's no way in hell spells are gonna work..."

Kinda takes some of the fun out of spell casters.

AMEN, I agree

Schwarz wrote:I thought about reintroducing the magic combat skills, a little different then in pfrg 1ed.

I'll also point out that bonuses were a lot lower in those days, too.

I don't know; most of the classes that don't get bonuses to spell strength are generally classes that mix improved combat skills with magic, and for them to use magic primarly to buff themselves and maybe deal direct damage and then use a weapon doesn't seem out of character.

Well, dragons are typically listed as being a level-whatever ley line walker/other practitioner of magic, so I give them the spell strength bonus a level-whatever one would have. Dragons also get bonuses to spell strength in RUE's dragon hand to hand table.

Similar with greater demons: most say they cast spells equal to a level-something caster, so give them the spell strength a caster at that level would have.