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Learning Wards and Circles?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:08 pm
by JTwig
Now only Diabolist can learn wards, correct? Are only Summoners allowed to learn circles? I see that some circles are listed in the general spell list. Are these the only circles that wizards/mystics/sorcerers able to learn?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:33 pm
by Library Ogre
Summoners can learn circles; depending on who you ask, diabolists can also learn the basics, as well.
The spells you see are basically emulations of "true" circle magic by spellcasters. Spellcasting is a lot more flexible than any "component" magic, and so spellcasters, unable to learn circles on their own, made spells which did the same thing.
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:02 pm
by JTwig
gadrin wrote:
...unless of course you want the old system.
I love the "old system" as you put. Honestly I've never paid attention to circles and ward in PFRPG in the past 10 years, never even read the descriptions. This weekend I was working on a game idea and actually read them, and was impressed. While limited, they are powerful and when used right are the equal to a lot of the new higher-powered stuff you see in Rifts. It defiantly is something that should not be phased out of the newer books and setting (would be perfect for Nightbane).
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:24 pm
by Library Ogre
gadrin wrote:oh yeah, I'm not bagging on it, if you've a PFRPG background then you should be pretty familiar with it.
Can a Diabolist use the Silver Rune to make a circle indestructable ?
No. He can use a permanence ward to make it "always on", and therefore immune to a lot of incidental wear and tear, but not immune to deliberate marring.
A silver rune, however, makes any sheet of parchment (scraped, treated, cow hide) indestructible.
I think that's the main bugaboo about Circle magic, it can take you hours to draw (or at least some extra time) then it can be destroyed fairly easily.
I'd have to check, but it ranges from 5 minutes (for a simple protection circle) to about 30 minutes, IIRC. It's similar to disrupting a ritual spell.
Obviously if your circle keeps people out then it's a bit more powerful than what I was thinking. Another obvious thing would be
protection runes around the outside of the circle so that would-be vandals get what's coming.
Not a bad idea; set up a ward in the circle for those who are not supposed to be there.
Any ideas on Diabolist NPCs from you ?
(for a Rifts type setting)
I'd have to sit down and futz around with the skill lists to make a Rifts Earth/Phase World Diabolist.
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:22 pm
by JTwig
gadrin wrote:oh yeah, I'm not bagging on it, if you've a PFRPG background then you should be pretty familiar with it.
Can a Diabolist use the Silver Rune to make a circle indestructable ? I thought I remembered something about "only on parchment" but I don't know Diabolism all that well. I think that's the main bugaboo about Circle magic, it can take you hours to draw (or at least some extra time) then it can be destroyed fairly easily. Obviously if your circle keeps people out then it's a bit more powerful than what I was thinking. Another obvious thing would be
protection runes around the outside of the circle so that would-be vandals get what's coming.
I've been trying to come up with a Diabolist NPC for Phase World, but he seems to be a "backseat NPC" sort of mage. He (or she) will have some neat abilities and skills (like crypto) but won't necessarily be a big impact character. I think I need to look over the OCC more, then come up with a better background.
Any ideas on Diabolist NPCs from you ?
(for a Rifts type setting)
Actually I just read about the silver rune last night, and it can only be used on parchment. However, it did seem that there was a way to make circles indestructible/damage resistant, other than carving them into to stone or wood. There was also a way to seal a circle so that when it was active no one could enter. I'll have to re-read to night before Chuck starts if I can.
As for an NPC I was thinking of using the Power Circle - Undead or Control Dead, that allows a Summoner to animate and control something like 100-150 dead per level of experience. Or maybe a multi-class Senchel (sp?; the shifter variant from the Rifter that can steal the power and abilities from demons and other supernatural creatures) and Summoner. He/She could summon creature, then drain them. Would become a threat to a large area of North America between the villian's personal power and summoned slaves.
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:58 pm
by Library Ogre
Looking at the Summoner and Diabolist OCCs in PF, I think the Diabolist works just fine in Phase World and Rifts Earth. They're closer to Rogue Scholars than other Men of Magic (their type of magic requires literacy), but they work OK as is... just give them access to skills from Rifts.
For Summoners, the History skill loses some relevance in Rifts, but basic self defense is very important, so I suggest the following:
Gemology (+15)
Language: Native at 98%
Languages (two of choice) (+20)
Literacy: Two of Choice (+20)
Lore: Demons and Monsters (+20)
Lore: One of Choice (+15)
Mathematics: Basic (+20)
Preserve Food (+15)
W.P.: Two of Choice
Hand to Hand: Basic
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:09 am
by JTwig
gadrin wrote:JTwig wrote:
Actually I just read about the silver rune last night, and it can only be used on parchment. However, it did seem that there was a way to make circles indestructible/damage resistant, other than carving them into to stone or wood. There was also a way to seal a circle so that when it was active no one could enter. I'll have to re-read to night before Chuck starts if I can.
As for an NPC I was thinking of using the Power Circle - Undead or Control Dead, that allows a Summoner to animate and control something like 100-150 dead per level of experience. Or maybe a multi-class Senchel (sp?; the shifter variant from the Rifter that can steal the power and abilities from demons and other supernatural creatures) and Summoner. He/She could summon creature, then drain them. Would become a threat to a large area of North America between the villian's personal power and summoned slaves.
You mean Soul Leech ? pretty powerful spell.
Actually I believe its called Power Circle - Create Undead. It allows the Diabolist to animate and control 100-150 skeletons per level of experience. All the skeletons to be animated must have a ward drawn on their forehead. It in the Power Circle section of the PFRPG corebook.
Wait, never mind, after re-reading your post I see that you were talking about the Shifter variant and not the power circle. My bad.
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:30 pm
by JTwig
gadrin wrote:JTwig wrote:
the shifter variant from the Rifter that can steal the power and abilities from demons and other supernatural creatures)
I thought you meant the Soul Leech Spell -- which is a spell of Legend in that Rifter.
I had forgotten what the spell was called. I personally love that class, it makes for great evil NPCs (especially with the description of how the spell works).