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As the title says... when did they start taking over?

Misfit KotLD wrote:What prompted the question? Is there a discrepancy between Vampire Kingdoms and Chaos Earth?

Curiosity. I don't know VK that well, and thought it might be mentioned, and it seemed relevant to this forum, as well.

its never really said.

myself, i'd figure that there are vamp intellegences working the area well before the cataclysm (leading to tales of the Chupa-thingy), but the ambiet levels of PPE were to low for more than a master vamp and some secondaries. in Chaos earth, the vamps would probably get wiped out in mexico proper, although the Yucatan likely isn't hit by the tidal waves, giving them a refuge from which to spread. that dimensional oddity is good for something.

i'd say vamps are dominant in the region within a few years, but it takes a decade or so for the vamp #'s to grow big enough to bring the intellegence over.

I agree with GBs thoughts on the matter of a few days and until they had enough vamps to bring over the Vampire Intelligence.

I've read way too much Lumley for my own good.

That being said:

My vamps are the slug-type sun side/night/side vamps who use people as hosts. (If you haven't read the books they're good-Brian Lumley does great vamps)

The tidal waves eroded away a spot where the portal (not a rift. more like a one way mini black hole.) to their world was. Later eco-effects closed it.


Hopefully mentioning the Lumley Necroscope books won't get me into trouble on the forums.

highpriestrsw2 wrote:I've read way too much Lumley for my own good.

That being said:

My vamps are the slug-type sun side/night/side vamps who use people as hosts. (If you haven't read the books they're good-Brian Lumley does great vamps)

The tidal waves eroded away a spot where the portal (not a rift. more like a one way mini black hole.) to their world was. Later eco-effects closed it.


Hopefully mentioning the Lumley Necroscope books won't get me into trouble on the forums.

Mentioning them isn't a problem. Saying "I use Lumley-style vampires and this is the stats I give them" would be.

duck-foot wrote:

Aramanthus wrote:I agree with GBs thoughts on the matter of a few days and until they had enough vamps to bring over the Vampire Intelligence.

i also agree

And I agree with duck-foot.

I guess that means we have quorum!

how fast the vamps take over mexico will vary based on a few issues.

1) how many are present before the cataclysm. (i consider el Chupacabra to be pre-rifts vamps in palladium)

2) how many survive the ashfalls, snow and rain storms, and other dangers. (figure the wild's will die off, but secondaries and masters will hole up for the first few weeks, when the storms at at their worst, and start really getting active on converting the survivors within a month.)

3) how many people the vampires can approach and convert before being found out.

4) how fast the mexican branch of NEMA and the military wise up to vamp hunting techniques (not fast enough, IMO, given that they eventually lose...)


the yucatan pocket dimension would probably be minimally effected by the storms, since it's isolated 3/4ths of the directions that storms can approach from, and almost completely from the direction the wind and currents would direct most storms.

It didn't take them long to carry out their master's wishes. And we all know the Mexican NEMA troops were removed fairly quickly. Maybe the vamps controlled key people in their organization before the coming of the Rifts.

I figured they been around long before the Rifts (remembers according to Canon it is Beyond the Supernaturial, then Chaos Earth, then Rifts) and has hidden themselves their since the last time the world was effect by magic.

Most movies like putting them down their.

That could well be how it happened. We'll have to see if it is covered in Jason Richards books when it comes out.

yeah i can't wait to see what they do next with the Chaos Earth story

Jason Richards is the man with that information. Hopefully he'll tell what is new with it!

i wanna share an idea with him and see if he likes it....

PM him! I'm sure he'll respond!

That makes a lot of sense! I can see that happening. Maybe that is how the Vampire Intelligences became so powerfully secured in their kingdoms.

But if the whole world becomes vampires, then what?

I see vampires would attempt to have human producing farms like cattle. Have their human minnions run them. Plus, the vampire population would have to be kept at a certian level as not to over feed.

That is what Mexico became after the coming of the Rifts.

Beware the U.S. drought

Let's hope that the Rifts bring rain back to the states on a regular basis. That we'll prevent those Vampires from getting to many of their kind up here.

I still have an issue with how little power a vampire gets as he ages you live for ten thosand years you should be a lot stronger than what a 15th level with max stats can have. I don't care how slow the learning curve is
if you have eternity you are going to get really powerful and or good at stuff

the nuclear winter would have helped the vampiers spread
blocking out the sun would allow them to move more freely
and be harder to find a noticeable pattern and with everything
going on people disaperaing wouldnt draw as much attention
as it would now

Barenziah58 wrote:The Auther of Vampire Kingdom is wrong about water killing vampire. Running water mean than fast running river or string will kill vampire, rain and water fire from than water gun willnot harm then. Silver will also not harm than vamire.

Perhaps in your game.

Aramanthus wrote:Let's hope that the Rifts bring rain back to the states on a regular basis. That we'll prevent those Vampires from getting to many of their kind up here.

Just hope that none of the other V.I's find another Demon Lord like the one in the Colombian Andes that's helping keep the rain away.

As for keeping them from "coming up here" I think that there are already a bunch in Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico. I remember reading in the Siege on Tolkeen that there was a vamp that somehow made it all the way up around the northern states. (in one game i have a V.I in Las Vegas. )

Barenziah58 wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Barenziah58 wrote:The Auther of Vampire Kingdom is wrong about water killing vampire. Running water mean than fast running river or string will kill vampire, rain and water fire from than water gun willnot harm then. Silver will also not harm than vamire.

Perhaps in your game.

The phase running water historator onlt have one meaning that is than fast flowing river where the water current are flowing so fast that they donot freeze in cold weather.. Since than water pirstol isnot than river it doesnot count so why donot the auther answer me on this. I am not the
only one say the auther is wrong. In fact they the vampire too many weakness, than monster that scare the liveing **** out of the CS. Since I live in El Paso Texas the river is too slow flowing to be running water.

Again, perhaps in your game. Palladium vampires are not the "historator" vampires.

If the Vampires didn't have all the weakness they quickly take over any world. As for when did they take over well I'd say during the demon plague they talk about in Chaos Earth that wiped out Nema. Maybe vampires even controlled a few states during this time and if that Vampire Intelligence was destroyed that would have destroyed all his minions all with him.

Barenziah58 wrote:Do more research of what you donot know instead of going by hollywood moive. In the book Dacrate written in the 19th century have the Count walking around in daylight. There where no secdonary or wild vampire. If you want to created than threat that will have the CS **** in the pants you donot make vampire with the weakness found in the Vampire Kingdom. An I have half elf and half orcs in my game.

Palladium vampires are not "historical" vampires. Full stop.

They are a specific type of demonic undead, with specific weaknesses. Full Stop.

One of those weaknesses is any variety of water, even as small as a squirt gun. Full Stop.

If your game includes things that are not in the books, that's great. However, insisting that everyone else is doing it wrong because we don't use your house rules is moronic. We don't know your house rules. The only thing we are guaranteed to have in common is the rules in the books; it is the common language of the boards. You may not like them. You may disagree with them. You're free to post your own versions, provided they're not conversions of someone else's intellectual property. But the rules in the book are correct for Palladium players everywhere, unless they choose to do something else. The author of Vampire Kingdoms was not wrong... he was defining what vampires are, according to Palladium.

That is what I mean by "Perhaps in your game." If you want to change things, fine. Don't insist, however, that everyone else is wrong, especially not when they're going by the published material.

Extrapolating upon canon information in the various Books, unlike some of the Vampire Intelligences of Europe and Russia, the VIs there seem to all be "new" Intelligences (especially given the once-incredible magic powers of the South American Gods to defend their people in the past).

Going upon what we "know" about how Intelligences get here in the first place, I'd 'extrapolate' that it didn't take very long for the Intelligences to take over that part of the planet (it is ideal like almost nowhere else on Earth)....and that didn't take too long after the Earth's magical levels flared up to levels that made it stand out in the Megaverse like bloody chum in the water.

Once it did, all that it takes to get the whole shebang started is only one Master Vampire Candidate to accept the offer........probably a decade or two or three after the Cataclysm, at most (just look at how fast it took for one of those towns near Arzno to fall -and they as a Southwestern City were aware of and prepared for Vampires!).

Page 11 of Rifts: Vampire Kingdoms states/implies that the Vampire Intelligences have ALWAYS known about Earth; but except for the infamous Transylvania Event of the 16th Century, they stayed away from Earth because the Magic Energy Levels were too low (IIRC, that Intelligence in Europe was easily defeated by the heroes of that time, being so weakened by Earth's magical dry spell).

Once the magic energy came back up, the VIs simply waited a little while (a century or so being a good example of "a little while" to these ancient beings), scouted the planet for suitable real estate, and settled in Central and South America.

I'm thinking they came in during the undead wave that was mentioned in one of the books, and the VIs didn't show up until 100 - 200 years prior to the start of the PA calander (as in 1 PA, not when the CS created it).

not enough ppe to sustain a chiang ku dragon

according KS there was a chiang ku ruuning around before the coming of the rifts. I think isaw it in the tolkeen wars books,could be misremembering it tho'.
The macigal surge of ppe in CE would be like a neon sign saying "buffet here!!" to most magical beings, wouldn't be long before they were all lined up and licking their chops.

csbioborg wrote:I still have an issue with how little power a vampire gets as he ages you live for ten thosand years you should be a lot stronger than what a 15th level with max stats can have. I don't care how slow the learning curve is
if you have eternity you are going to get really powerful and or good at stuff

For this very reason alone ..

I in my game setting's allow for the Turned Vampire's to continue to learn thier previous OCC/RCC skills and abilities .. unless derived from a God or something that is totaly polar opposite to the Vampire's writeup.


Aka .. a 5th lvl LLW who gets turned is still able to learn new magic .. but at a much much VASTLY much slower rate then previously ..

Great question, but so many wrong answers, (in my opinion).

While I agree that Rifts World Book One: Vampire Kingdoms, is the place to look for the answer, I believe the best information to answer this question will be found on pages 47 and 49.

Using the book's time setting as 101 P.A. (or 2387 A.D.), I have back-dated the information in my campaigns as follows:

The Vampire Kingdom of Ixzotz (Aguascalientes, Mexico) is the first of the vampire kingdoms, or at least the oldest for certain as stated in the worldbook. The Master Vampire is a Hidrocalido (term for resident there) by the name of Cranston Octalon, who accepts the offer for power from an alien intelligence in 2100 A.D. (Odd, because Cranston is a scottish name, not very latino? I pretend he is a european or gringo managing one of the many industrial plants located there during "The Great Cataclysm".)

Anyways, that means that 1-2 years after the world goes crazy, our man Cranston, maybe 30 years old by then, becomes a vampire. It's unknown how long it took to turn 2500 vampires in order to bring the alien intelligence over, but that is not relevant .

It's interesting to note that as additional vampire kingdoms were established, the sites move further south, toward wetter climates.

It's also interesting that while Aguascalientes is a dry steppe environment with little rainfall, the land soil has numerous hot springs throughout the area, hence the name of the town and the residents on the eastern bank of the river.

Although at an elevation of 6,190 feet, it's simply not cold enough for snow or ice, and yet Ixzotz translates to "Ice", if I'm not mistaken.

Anyways, I believe the answer to the question that Mark asked would most accurately be that almost immediately after the events of Chaos Earth devastation, Senior Octalon sold his soul, and so it began...

Jeffrey W.

p.s. Ixzotz is my favorite of the vampire kingdoms only because that is where my wife and in-laws are from, and they still return there every summer, so it's easy for me to visualize the area in Rifts.

Jeffrey W. wrote:Great question, but so many wrong answers, (in my opinion).

While I agree that Rifts World Book One: Vampire Kingdoms, is the place to look for the answer, I believe the best information to answer this question will be found on pages 47 and 49.

Using the book's time setting as 101 P.A. (or 2387 A.D.), I have back-dated the information in my campaigns as follows:

The Vampire Kingdom of Ixzotz (Aguascalientes, Mexico) is the first of the vampire kingdoms, or at least the oldest for certain as stated in the worldbook. The Master Vampire is a Hidrocalido (term for resident there) by the name of Cranston Octalon, who accepts the offer for power from an alien intelligence in 2100 A.D. (Odd, because Cranston is a scottish name, not very latino? I pretend he is a european or gringo managing one of the many industrial plants located there during "The Great Cataclysm".)

Anyways, that means that 1-2 years after the world goes crazy, our man Cranston, maybe 30 years old by then, becomes a vampire. It's unknown how long it took to turn 2500 vampires in order to bring the alien intelligence over, but that is not relevant .

It's interesting to note that as additional vampire kingdoms were established, the sites move further south, toward wetter climates.

It's also interesting that while Aguascalientes is a dry steppe environment with little rainfall, the land soil has numerous hot springs throughout the area, hence the name of the town and the residents on the eastern bank of the river.

Although at an elevation of 6,190 feet, it's simply not cold enough for snow or ice, and yet Ixzotz translates to "Ice", if I'm not mistaken.

Anyways, I believe the answer to the question that Mark asked would most accurately be that almost immediately after the events of Chaos Earth devastation, Senior Octalon sold his soul, and so it began...

Jeffrey W.

p.s. Ixzotz is my favorite of the vampire kingdoms only because that is where my wife and in-laws are from, and they still return there every summer, so it's easy for me to visualize the area in Rifts.

I like your take on this the best.

Bood Samel wrote: I like your take on this the best.

Thanks Bood Samel, I tend to believe that these vampires discussions on this and other threads have Kevin inspired to improve upon the vampire kingdoms book, and to do an adventure book for us too.

We'll have to wait to read which new details emerge in the next to vampire related publications next year.

Jeffrey W.