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and casts Sorcerous Fury.

Ignoring the normal limitations on magic inside a PA (the PA is TW, and is somewhat transparent to his casting) would a spell that causes the caster to grow 1D4 feet taller function properly inside a PA?

in my pf game, anyone transforming must either:take off their gear, or transform into something smaller than themselves, or risk destroying/being destroyed by their gear.

for example, we have a guy in full plate with a ring of animal metamorph...he must strip down to become a bear, but if he becomes a rat or bird, he can just crawl/fly out of the pile of armor and gear as it collapses...

The spell does indicate that the transformation somehow protects their body armour (infact damage now comes off their MD body before their armour).

It says nothing about power armour.

Invincible Armour indicates that it works on Body Armour but not Power Armour.

Is that precedent enough that this spell can't be combined with a PA?

Yes . . . it isn't this one though.

Jefffar wrote:and casts Sorcerous Fury.

Ignoring the normal limitations on magic inside a PA (the PA is TW, and is somewhat transparent to his casting) would a spell that causes the caster to grow 1D4 feet taller function properly inside a PA?

If the Spell has provisions for re-spacing the armor to fit the Caster's new (and temporary) size, I personally see no reason why Power Armor would be "immune" to the spell's effects.

Of course, said mage soon fries himself to a crisp inside the armor, since he isn't exactly Mr. Irrationality for the duration of the spell and he decides to let loose with offensive magics while confined inside....

Wangfucius wrote:I'd ignore all rules and hose this dude by having his PA rip apart due to stress, but doing no damage to the caster. That ought to teach him.

How delightfully vindictive, ignoring the rules and precedent just to "get" the player.

I agree that this spell shouldn't work in power armour, but not sheerly out of spite - power armour designed for humans isn't likely to be able to compensate for a four-foot height adjustment.

A mage walks in wearing power armor....

And says: "Anybody got a can-opener? I got an itch that's drivin' me NUTS!"

I'd say that sorcerous fury encases you in a blue energy shell, which appears to increase your height and such, but actually appears over top of any armor you might be wearing; thus protecting it from harm for the duration of the spell.

It's the only way i can reconcile how your body becomes an MDC structure, but somehow the damage you take is subtracted first from the MDC provided to you by the spell; before coming off of your HP (MDC creature with HP?... riiight) or the MDC of the armor you are wearing.

If i may also throw my two cents worth in here on a secondary issue; to all those saying you simply can't cast in Power armor - period? (or that you can, but your spells will make contact with the shell of your armor instead of their normal range, or some similar concept)

Respectfully; please refer to page 188 of the RUE sourcebook (in the wearing body armor section) where it explicitly states that "The same considerations and penalties apply to power armor..."

The considerations being referenced in the above quote are the ones which apply to certain varieties of body armor; specifically the random table of what happens when someone tries to cast a spells while wearing (50%+ coverage of the mages body) something that is man-made or artificial.

You folks are likely mistakenly thinking of the 'giant robots or vehicles' blanket prohibition against casting without having external access in said vehicle.

Except the spell states it specifically transforms your body, increasing height and muscle mass.

gadrin wrote:

Jefffar wrote:Except the spell states it specifically transform your body, increasing height and muscle mass.

go for it. It's for a mage wearing body armor, which I think PA qualifies, esp a TW version.

the Titan I have in mind has a Naruni belt. He doesn't have AoI because well he's already got 158 MDC.

Getting shot still hurts, even if you're MDC. I'd rather spend 10 PPE and not get my flesh pierced by high-velocity iron than rely on my flesh... even if it's not too tender.

Jefffar wrote:Except the spell states it specifically transforms your body, increasing height and muscle mass.

Sure, but it does not explicitly state it does anything to your armor; on the contrary it actually protects it from damage.

It protects body armour from damage. This sell says nothing about power armour.

In at least one other spell, Power Armour is explicitly excluded from being Body Armour.

Jefffar wrote:In at least one other spell, Power Armour is explicitly excluded from being Body Armour.

The reason Invincible Armor mentions power armor is to provide an example of a type of body armor that it doesn't work in; not to provide some sort of all encompassing example of how power armor inexplicably doesn't count as body armor.

The reality is that for the purposes of nearly all the other spells (ie: the ones that don't explicitly differentiate between powered and some other flavour of armor)it isn't.

This includes the fundamental rules for casting in body armor; which treat power armor as just another kind of body armor, and not some sort of vehicle or other contraption.

Yet you don't need a piloting skill to operate a body armour.

Jefffar wrote:Yet you don't need a piloting skill to operate a body armour.

Sure you do, if the body armor you are trying to operate is of the powered variety.

Otherwise no, i suppose you wouldn't.

Power armour isn't body armour IMO and it's backed up in other magics.

Jefffar wrote:Power armour isn't body armour IMO and it's backed up in other magics.

Some magic spells do list power armor as one of the things they don't effect or interact with differently, this is true.

The casting rules however have it listed under the "Casting in Body armor" section though, which indicates to me (at least for spells in general), that it is in fact a type of body armor.

Some where I'm petty sure it says powerarmor can be used 5-8 feet. SO I would say if it under that range then no, but over I would say yes but would also kill the person inside using teleport sup has a example.

Mouser13 wrote:...but would also kill the person inside...

Why do people feel it's necessary to slay a PC for trying something different?

Sure, the effect may (or may not) be too potent for the power curve a given GM is trying to culture, but i don't think arbitrary PC-'icide' is the answer here. Your thoughts people?

Wangfucius wrote:For example, in FoM, there's a whole section on how mages believe magic to be superior in every way to technology? So why is a mage walking into a bar in PA? Because the player realizes that his mage is squishy if caught flat-footed. He's not acting in character, he's attempting to manipulate the rules.

To put some context on my thoughts; Sure your mage is of the opinion that magic reigns supreme; but that said, he's not likely to give up wearing some sort of armor (in a lot of cases) since she or he is likely to be aware of magics' limitations as well, quite possibly better than anyone else. (This specific example? that Magic 'armor' spells are pretty expensive and very limited, especially at 1st level)

The only mage that is likely to go anywhere without a modicrum of coventional protection is one who is secure enough in his power (and potent enough) to insure his own survival whatever may befall him. In other words, some sort of MDC being or somesuch. To do otherwise in a rifts enviroment is likely to be more of an elaborate form of suicide than a statement on the superiority of magic

Technowizardry is all about the fusion of magic and machine, and that is perfectly fine by most standards. I mean, who else is going to pilot those magic power armors that have existed in one form or another since the original book?

Wangfucius wrote:besides, if these mages spend all this time learning magic, when are they supposed to find time to learn how to roll around in military PA systems?

That is an excellent point. I presume they used some magic to cut the hours of sleep they need in half, and took night classes?

Who knows really, the method which most OCC's end up with the skills they pick hasn't ever really been clearly defined that well.

Plus, in general all magic works on/though powerarmor. Since it is not a robot vech. THough in this case I would say the spell would fail since he can't grow the 1D4 feet. Since we don't know if the grow/force of it would be enough to break the armor. Though I know may GM would say it breaks the armor.

I would think the electrical current would disrupt the magical energy, plus there is ther issue of the complex wiring. Unless a wizard is an electrician, he is not going to know the schematic to return the armor to, nor enough about its intricacies to properly metmorphsize it. Just a couple observations.

I know I haven't followed this thread, But what about the Super-Power
Weapon Meld? & Then there is the old fashioned Warborn/Warbaby!
of course there is the Super-Abilities that have to do with Mechanics-
Mechano-link, & Machine Merge. Of course your mage would have to be
modified by the Spugorth, or Gene Splicers to get these Super-Abilities.
going the Warborn/Warbaby way would be the best. They're in Rifter 8.
G
PS Munchkin.........

If the PA is a Mystic Power Armor (see RMB) or a TW Power Armor, than IMHO, I would let the mage get is 1D4 feet of growth (he could get into trouble with the roof, since PA adds also some extra feets to the total height ).

If I'm a mean GM, that the PA would crack at different points, since the character is growing and the PA is not .

If the PA is a Mystic Power Armor (see RMB) or a TW Power Armor, than IMHO, I would let the mage get is 1D4 feet of growth (he could get into trouble with the roof, since PA adds also some extra feets to the total height ).

If I'm a mean GM, that the PA would crack at different points, since the character is growing and the PA is not .

Actually, depending on the power armor, the hero might break, bones snapping as they try to push past solid metal structures. Could get awfully messy.

Ex-Coalition Sniper wrote:here is my answer to the problem. if the armor is built for you and you become bigger than you
and no TW had the foresite to build a shapechanging "Autobots transform and roll out!" function into the armor than you run the risk of Asphixiation, death without damage. strangling yourself as well as ruining your armor.

The problem with that interpretation is that the same thing could be said of casting sorcerous fury in regular body armor (regardless of it's complexity), or for that matter, while wearing a tight necklace.

Now i'm all in favor of balance as a preferred method of arbitration of a given ability or spell, but presuming that your clothing, armor, etc. do not grow with you when you cast sorcerous fury is something i feel they would have needed to state in the spell for it to have the effect you'd indicated above.

Given that the only mention of the body armor anywhere in the spell is the paradoxical statement that somehow the damage you take comes off of your newly minted MDC body first, and your body armor second (regardless of the fact that the armor is supposedly covering your body...) I'd say either sorcerous fury just makes you 'appear' to be 1d4 feet taller (via some sort of projected magical forcefield effect), or something very strange is going on...