Forums of the Megaverse®

Okay... re-reading the Diabolist/Ward section and the Immunity section has me thinking.

Diabolist is 100% immune to his own wards. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Protection From wards work because they are technically protecting the area around the ward, and not the Diabolist himself.

Now... Diabolists can permanently affix wards to themselves through the use of the Permance Ward. However, a Diabolist could not place a 'Inflict+Knowledge' upon himself, nor a 'Inflict+Color' upon himself. Just Protection From wards. I also assume that if a Diabolist used Permanence on himself, mixed with 'Inflict+Armor of Ithan' it would not work, because 'Inflict' wards don't work on their maker.

This kinda defeats the aspect of a diabolist, and I don't quite agree with it.

What do you all say?

Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Mark Hall wrote:Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Actually, with the rules, a Diabolist can do all that to anyone except himself, unless it is done with a Protection ward.

Schwarz wrote:from my point of view inflict permanency and an armor of ithan would work because the ward effects the spell not the diabolist.

The armor of ithan would not regenerate sdc/mdc tough, so propably invincible armor (or any other armor spell that regs sdc/mdc) is a better choice.

Yea, thats my take on it as well... however if you tried to make a triggered Armor of Ithan that would cover you whenever evil came near, that wouldnt work because of the inflict ward... however, a protection by infliction prolly would.. hmmm.

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Actually, with the rules, a Diabolist can do all that to anyone except himself, unless it is done with a Protection ward.

Correct. I should have clarified.

A diabolist cannot use inflict wards upon himself. I allow an alchemist to do so, however.

Shadowmagic wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Actually, with the rules, a Diabolist can do all that to anyone except himself, unless it is done with a Protection ward.

Correct. I should have clarified.

A diabolist cannot use inflict wards upon himself. I allow an alchemist to do so, however.

That makes no sense in my opinion, an Alchemist is just a high lvl and ofen, multi-classed NPC. They still have to follow the rules set by an OCC and understood rules that govern the use of abilities, in this case, Diabolism.

Or, in this case, Alchemy.

gadrin wrote:p122


"The only way a Diabolist can trigger one of his own wards is to do so deliberately..." (more follows)

And? That is for Triggering his own wards, but even though he Trigger's them, he is STILL not effected by them.

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Actually, with the rules, a Diabolist can do all that to anyone except himself, unless it is done with a Protection ward.

Correct. I should have clarified.

A diabolist cannot use inflict wards upon himself. I allow an alchemist to do so, however.

Are you sayign that an Alchemist can use their own inflict wards to inclict themselves with something? Hmm... thats a thought.

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Actually, with the rules, a Diabolist can do all that to anyone except himself, unless it is done with a Protection ward.

Correct. I should have clarified.

A diabolist cannot use inflict wards upon himself. I allow an alchemist to do so, however.

Are you sayign that an Alchemist can use their own inflict wards to inclict themselves with something? Hmm... thats a thought.

Correct. If he so choses (or screws something up, which is always a possibility).

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Diabolist, no. Alchemist, yes.

Actually, with the rules, a Diabolist can do all that to anyone except himself, unless it is done with a Protection ward.

Correct. I should have clarified.

A diabolist cannot use inflict wards upon himself. I allow an alchemist to do so, however.

Are you sayign that an Alchemist can use their own inflict wards to inclict themselves with something? Hmm... thats a thought.

Correct. If he so choses (or screws something up, which is always a possibility).

Okay cool. Though Diabolists can put their wards on another Diabolist easily enough...

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Correct. If he so choses (or screws something up, which is always a possibility).

Okay cool. Though Diabolists can put their wards on another Diabolist easily enough...

Sure. If you get enough for two permanence wards, offering to exchange services with another Diabolist isn't a bad idea.

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Correct. If he so choses (or screws something up, which is always a possibility).

Okay cool. Though Diabolists can put their wards on another Diabolist easily enough...

Sure. If you get enough for two permanence wards, offering to exchange services with another Diabolist isn't a bad idea.

Thats true, "Hey, I have 2 permanence wards, you can have one if you will make me a permanent ward that I can use." "Okay, whats your true name?" "Umm.. Nevermind." Heh, my chars and players are MUCH to paranoid for that lol.

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Correct. If he so choses (or screws something up, which is always a possibility).

Okay cool. Though Diabolists can put their wards on another Diabolist easily enough...

Sure. If you get enough for two permanence wards, offering to exchange services with another Diabolist isn't a bad idea.

Thats true, "Hey, I have 2 permanence wards, you can have one if you will make me a permanent ward that I can use." "Okay, whats your true name?" "Umm.. Nevermind." Heh, my chars and players are MUCH to paranoid for that lol.

IIRC, true name is only necessary if you're looking to exclude someone.

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

verdilak wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Correct. If he so choses (or screws something up, which is always a possibility).

Okay cool. Though Diabolists can put their wards on another Diabolist easily enough...

Sure. If you get enough for two permanence wards, offering to exchange services with another Diabolist isn't a bad idea.

Thats true, "Hey, I have 2 permanence wards, you can have one if you will make me a permanent ward that I can use." "Okay, whats your true name?" "Umm.. Nevermind." Heh, my chars and players are MUCH to paranoid for that lol.

IIRC, true name is only necessary if you're looking to exclude someone.

Yea, thats right. Don't know what i was thinking about heh. Nevermind then lol

verdilak wrote:Okay... re-reading the Diabolist/Ward section and the Immunity section has me thinking.

Diabolist is 100% immune to his own wards. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Protection From wards work because they are technically protecting the area around the ward, and not the Diabolist himself.

Now... Diabolists can permanently affix wards to themselves through the use of the Permance Ward. However, a Diabolist could not place a 'Inflict+Knowledge' upon himself, nor a 'Inflict+Color' upon himself. Just Protection From wards. I also assume that if a Diabolist used Permanence on himself, mixed with 'Inflict+Armor of Ithan' it would not work, because 'Inflict' wards don't work on their maker.

This kinda defeats the aspect of a diabolist, and I don't quite agree with it.

What do you all say?

You couldn't make "Inflict + Armor of Ithan", because there isn't an Armor of Ithan ward in the first place.

You could put a permanence ward on yourself, targeting an Armor of Ithan spell that was currently cast on you, but once the SDC/MDC of the AoI was gone, the ward would be useless.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

verdilak wrote:Okay... re-reading the Diabolist/Ward section and the Immunity section has me thinking.

Diabolist is 100% immune to his own wards. No if's, and's, or but's about it. Protection From wards work because they are technically protecting the area around the ward, and not the Diabolist himself.

Now... Diabolists can permanently affix wards to themselves through the use of the Permance Ward. However, a Diabolist could not place a 'Inflict+Knowledge' upon himself, nor a 'Inflict+Color' upon himself. Just Protection From wards. I also assume that if a Diabolist used Permanence on himself, mixed with 'Inflict+Armor of Ithan' it would not work, because 'Inflict' wards don't work on their maker.

This kinda defeats the aspect of a diabolist, and I don't quite agree with it.

What do you all say?

You couldn't make "Inflict + Armor of Ithan", because there isn't an Armor of Ithan ward in the first place.

You could put a permanence ward on yourself, targeting an Armor of Ithan spell that was currently cast on you, but once the SDC/MDC of the AoI was gone, the ward would be useless.

Where does it say that you cannot make a Trigger+Inflict+Armor of Ithan+Permanence?

verdilak wrote:Where does it say that you cannot make a Trigger+Inflict+Armor of Ithan+Permanence?

Maybe I'm wrong.

But where does it say you can make Trigger + Inflict + Armor of Ithan in the first place?

As far as I know, there's no way to insert an actual spell into a ward phrase.

As far as I'm concerned, Diabolists are not spellcasters and cannot learn to cast spells (excepting through dual OCCs). Their best magical offense is a force-activated area affect ward.

gadrin wrote:However I think that the basics have to be followed in RPGs and I'd allow a mage to protect himself in their own chosen field, like so I'd have no problem giving them access to one or two spells.

The thing is, they're entirely different types of magic; it's like letting a warlock cast wizard spells, or learn wards.

gadrin wrote:yes, but it's also a GM saying to the players: I not going to hold the system shortcomings against you.

personally the Diabolist isn't a Rifts OCC to me, it cries out for the simplicity of the PFRPG settng. But that's just me. I might come across a player who can make it work, and he'll either buy a Naruni Forcefield or I'll help him out a little on the magic side.

Who said we were talking about Rifts? And why is keeping discrete systems of magic discrete a "shortcoming"?

gadrin wrote:Who said we weren't ? Why are you being such a jerk ?

Because we're talking about Diabolists, which would usually default to Palladium Fantasy.

And I'm only a jerk to people I love. Let me love you!