Falling Damage

[Lenwen]

Give Killer Cyborg a PM if no one can answer this for you I seem to remember a topic about this a while back an he knew the answer iirc ... sorry I myself could not find that in the books either my friend


-Lenwen.

[Killer Cyborg]

Where the @#%@ is it? I've looked through the R:UE and could only find rules for falling in body armor. N&SS only had rules for vehical impacts. Nothing anywhere telling me that character x takes y damage for every z feet he fell.


I house ruled it to 2d6 per 10 feet, but I'm not sure that is enough. I may add in a serious wound chart from N&SS if they fall over 10 feet.

If there isn't a falling damage rating, what are some of the things you guys use?

1d6 SDC per 10'.
RUE, p. 345

It's also in the main Rifts book, in the combat section.
I think in some of the older books, it's under the Climbing skill.

[Lenwen]

I knew KC would be all over that one .

well said

-Lenwen.

[CyCo]

1d6 per 10' fallen seems to the the universal standard. I don't mean megaversal either. The same falling damage can be found in every version of D&D, Dragon Warriors, even CP2020.

[Killer Cyborg]

.....

Thanks, KC. I'm disheartened that the damage is so....minuscule. Yet another thing to go and change. *sigh*

And you can Roll with Impact for 1/2 damage.

If you want it to be deadlier, have it go straight to hit points.

[glitterboy2098]

don't forget Terminal velocity either.

the Terminal velocity of a human ranges from 55 to 89 m/s. gravity pulls you down at roughly 9.8 m/s.
so the most any falling person will fall before reaching terminal velocity is 1 melee.

frankly, basing damage on the distance covered is rather unrealistic. it means that high falls like off out of a plane does more damage than off a skyscraper, when in both cases you'd the ground at roughly the same speed, which means you'd suffer the same damage.

it does make some sense for short falls, like down one story of a building.

running some rough math, a person attains terminal velocity after crossing roughly 100 feet. any time after that the damage will be the same as a 100ft fall regardless of height.

[Natasha]

http://www.gravitycalc.com/

[Natasha]

Keep in mind though that there is no terminal velocity without an atmosphere creating resistance.

You can also change your terminal velocity depending on your shape; if you fall with arms and legs extended you go much slower than if you are completely vertical wearing aerodynamic helmets and clothes.

But velocity is very difficult thing to measure falling damage with.

Distance has its problems as was pointed out, but it's pretty good for most game applications, I think.

[Reagren Wright]

According to Mythbusters terminal velocity is reached at 120 feet. So the
most damage anyone can ever take 12D6, which sounds rather whimpy
when you fall off the Sears Tower and don't have to roll 145D6 .

[Natasha]

According to Mythbusters terminal velocity is reached at 120 feet. So the
most damage anyone can ever take 12D6, which sounds rather whimpy
when you fall off the Sears Tower and don't have to roll 145D6 .

That was velocity they calculated.
The average sky diver is considered to have terminal velocity of about 120 miles per hour. But sky divers have gone much faster, depending upon how they reduce air resistance (and the altitude from which they exit the plane or balloon).

Terminal velocity is reached when you stop accelerating - that is why at some point the distance you fall no longer matters. Zero acceleration can only happen where there is something to oppose gravity; in the case of atmosphere, air molecules. A parachute only works in atmosphere.

For long falls velocity is the key.
For short falls and most game falls, I think distance is Good Enough.

[Natasha]

Well for those higher altitudes you really have to account for drag, which is impossible basically. You could probably come up with some charts though. I think it's too much work.

[glitterboy2098]

According to Mythbusters terminal velocity is reached at 120 feet. So the
most damage anyone can ever take 12D6, which sounds rather whimpy
when you fall off the Sears Tower and don't have to roll 145D6 .

it's not too far off.

12D6 will kill most low level characters. and impact damage like that will transmit through body armor. the armor will be fine, but the body will be broken.

[SkyeFyre]

Also, remember that your player characters are above average super humans/D-bees. I use the Victim rules stats from BTS 1ed for average humans which puts an average adult at about 10HP and 12SDC

[Lenwen]

Also, remember that your player characters are above average super humans/D-bees. I use the Victim rules stats from BTS 1ed for average humans which puts an average adult at about 10HP and 12SDC

Well said Skye


-Lenwen.

[bigbobsr6000]

Two personal events in my life that is fall related;

1. A close relative of mine fell from an overhead crane rail. This happened in ca. 1966. He was working on an overhead crane rail with a long crowbar. It slipped and he fell 35 feet to generators below, then fell to concrete floor. He had 4 broken ribs, broken arm, broken wrist, broken foot and broken fingers. Not to mention all the cuts and massive bruises. He survived and after a year of care he went back to his same job.

2. I personally fell off a metal cargo container aboard ship in the Persian Gulf. I fell 12 feet. (ca. 1996). The ladder I was on decided to leave me. I hit the steel deck below. I broke my right leg in three places and my ankle. Plus, damaged discs in my back. I had steel pin put in ankle and back surgery to correct my discs' problems. I was under medical care for about a year as well. This was just from 12 feet!

So, a mere 1d6 of damage per 10 feet is not enough damage based on my personal experiences.

Ooowwwww!!

[Natasha]

How you land and what you land on certainly are factors, too.

Let's not forget that parachute training includes jumping from about 10 feet platforms to practice landings.

[Killer Cyborg]

Two personal events in my life that is fall related;

1. A close relative of mine fell from an overhead crane rail. This happened in ca. 1966. He was working on an overhead crane rail with a long crowbar. It slipped and he fell 35 feet to generators below, then fell to concrete floor. He had 4 broken ribs, broken arm, broken wrist, broken foot and broken fingers. Not to mention all the cuts and massive bruises. He survived and after a year of care he went back to his same job.

2. I personally fell off a metal cargo container aboard ship in the Persian Gulf. I fell 12 feet. (ca. 1996). The ladder I was on decided to leave me. I hit the steel deck below. I broke my right leg in three places and my ankle. Plus, damaged discs in my back. I had steel pin put in ankle and back surgery to correct my discs' problems. I was under medical care for about a year as well. This was just from 12 feet!

So, a mere 1d6 of damage per 10 feet is not enough damage based on my personal experiences.

Ooowwwww!!

Agreed.

Really, most damage in Palladium is too low.

[bigbobsr6000]

I use injury tables along with the die damage. I roll 1d6+1/10ft after 10 feet rounded up (11+=20, 21+=30, etc.) of falling height to SDC and roll same for direct damage to HPs. (EX: 30ft fall = 2d6+2 damage to SDC and roll 2d6+2 damage to HPs.) Then I roll for random injury on one of my tables. Roll 1 time +1 per 10 points of total damage rounded up (SDC+HP damage).

[Reagren Wright]

Actually any fall greater then your height can lead to possible head, neck,
spinal injury or internal bleeding. So that means a mere six or seven foot
fall has the poltential to be fatal. I'm still amazed that window washer in
New York some how survived that fall from several stories up (I forget
how many) this year.

[GreenGhost]

I personally use 2D4+2 SDC per 10 feet as falling damage. I know it sounds like a lot to most, but I've got plenty of real life examples, like those above that justifies it. For example; my cousin fell off a chair and fractured a wrist and severely spranged his ankle. Some of us out there have "hammock horror stories" that still remember the pain associated with that.

SO I think that the 2D4+2 SDC per 10 feet is very realistic. Especially since the general character isn't "average."

In reference to the 10 foot mock jump towers (practice parachuting) I'm sure many out there that have experienced this can agree with this; first of all generally a shallow pit of sand or saw dust is used to reduce the possibility of injury during landing. Not to mention quite a bit of soldiers are injured in these mock jumps.

[Natasha]

Eh, I was speaking more about how you land and on what you land. Meaning that a 10' fall off a ladder is probably going to be different than a 10' 'fall' from a practice jump. Meaning the damage is probably going to be different. It's up to the GM to nit pick I guess.

[bigbobsr6000]

I personally use 2D4+2 SDC per 10 feet as falling damage. I know it sounds like a lot to most, but I've got plenty of real life examples, like those above that justifies it. For example; my cousin fell off a chair and fractured a wrist and severely spranged his ankle. Some of us out there have "hammock horror stories" that still remember the pain associated with that.

SO I think that the 2D4+2 SDC per 10 feet is very realistic. Especially since the general character isn't "average."

In reference to the 10 foot mock jump towers (practice parachuting) I'm sure many out there that have experienced this can agree with this; first of all generally a shallow pit of sand or saw dust is used to reduce the possibility of injury during landing. Not to mention quite a bit of soldiers are injured in these mock jumps.

I like the 2d4+2 damage instead my 1d6+1/10ft.

[GreenGhost]

Eh, I was speaking more about how you land and on what you land. Meaning that a 10' fall off a ladder is probably going to be different than a 10' 'fall' from a practice jump. Meaning the damage is probably going to be different. It's up to the GM to nit pick I guess.

Ah- I guess I misread- sorry about that- lol

[GreenGhost]

I personally use 2D4+2 SDC per 10 feet as falling damage. I know it sounds like a lot to most, but I've got plenty of real life examples, like those above that justifies it. For example; my cousin fell off a chair and fractured a wrist and severely spranged his ankle. Some of us out there have "hammock horror stories" that still remember the pain associated with that.

SO I think that the 2D4+2 SDC per 10 feet is very realistic. Especially since the general character isn't "average."

In reference to the 10 foot mock jump towers (practice parachuting) I'm sure many out there that have experienced this can agree with this; first of all generally a shallow pit of sand or saw dust is used to reduce the possibility of injury during landing. Not to mention quite a bit of soldiers are injured in these mock jumps.

I like the 2d4+2 damage instead my 1d6+1/10ft.

It's playable- I've been doing it in the Palladium games that I GM for 14 years. I'm getting old

[Natasha]

Eh, I was speaking more about how you land and on what you land. Meaning that a 10' fall off a ladder is probably going to be different than a 10' 'fall' from a practice jump. Meaning the damage is probably going to be different. It's up to the GM to nit pick I guess.

Ah- I guess I misread- sorry about that- lol

Because I wasnt very clear.

Or maybe you need new reading glasses?

[Sentinel]

Also, remember that your player characters are above average super humans/D-bees. I use the Victim rules stats from BTS 1ed for average humans which puts an average adult at about 10HP and 12SDC

Well said Skye


-Lenwen.

A common problem with Palladium is in the scaling.
Simply put, a lot things (like weapons damage) are not scaled to each other very well.
On top of that, Palladium has always had a somewhat odd ratio of Damage-to-S.D.C.

For normal people, I usually went with an "average" of 10 S.D.C. + any relevant physical skills (usually no more than a total of +10), with 9 +1D6 Hit Points.
They could die very easily.

[Natasha]

I don't call it a problem. I call it a design feature. Palladium games are basically all about the hero character and epic adventures.

Unless you're playing RECON, of course

[csbioborg]

What about MDC creatures? I refuse to believe you shoot down a dragon and he falls 1,000 feet and he dosen't get a scratch

[Natasha]

What about MDC creatures? I refuse to believe you shoot down a dragon and he falls 1,000 feet and he dosen't get a scratch

I don't mind that he isn't hurt by smashing into the SDC ground.

I realise that brings up the shooting a Wilks through the Earth thing but that's just not reasonable.

[Sentinel]

I don't call it a problem. I call it a design feature. Palladium games are basically all about the hero character and epic adventures.

And in some instances, that's perfectly fine. Heroes Unlimited, for example.

There are other instances however in which the scale is out of whack, particularly in the cases of heavy weapons (a common topic and issue for Rifts).

For other instances, the ratio of Damage to Armour, and to SDC (for non-armoured characters) is off-balance as well, even taking into consideration the "hero factor".

Unless you're playing RECON, of course

RECON is a whole 'nother creature. It's not a Megaversal Game, and I don't own a copy, so I wouldn't qualify whether the scale is workable or not.
I'm assuming that it's very different from N&SS (from the perspective of military/merc characters).

[bigbobsr6000]

In Recon you can have the "one shot, one kill" happen, as example, to any character.

[Sentinel]

In Recon you can have the "one shot, one kill" happen, as example, to any character.

You can get that in Rifts too...if you use MDC.

[GreenGhost]

Eh, I was speaking more about how you land and on what you land. Meaning that a 10' fall off a ladder is probably going to be different than a 10' 'fall' from a practice jump. Meaning the damage is probably going to be different. It's up to the GM to nit pick I guess.

Ah- I guess I misread- sorry about that- lol

Because I wasnt very clear.

Or maybe you need new reading glasses?

It's more likey the needing new reading glasses

[GreenGhost]

In Recon you can have the "one shot, one kill" happen, as example, to any character.

You can get that in Rifts too...if you use MDC.

Not to mention the rules for the sniper info in one of the Rifters (I can't remember which one). I think they were called TAG Agents or something like that.

[Sentinel]

In Recon you can have the "one shot, one kill" happen, as example, to any character.

You can get that in Rifts too...if you use MDC.

Not to mention the rules for the sniper info in one of the Rifters (I can't remember which one). I think they were called TAG Agents or something like that.

I vaguely recall those.

You'd think in Rifts that weapon damage, even for small arms would pose more of a threat to armours current to the time. With helmet MDC running up to 60, it's a little tough to get a good kill with a head shot when your rifles do 3-4D6 on average.

[Natasha]

Rifts isn't a sniper's game.... until the glitter boy pilot goes to buy milk.

Military commanders don't deploy snipers to destroy aircraft carriers.
I think it's insane to take sniper out of their traditional role and try to make them effective anywhere in the battlespace.

[bigbobsr6000]

So, to tie this together:

We are now talking about using a sniper to shoot someone while they are falling. Thus, adding to the fall damage.

[GreenGhost]

So, to tie this together:

We are now talking about using a sniper to shoot someone while they are falling. Thus, adding to the fall damage.

[Sentinel]

That scenario is not as ludicrous as it sounds.

In a HU/N&SS game, a player jumped out out a plane, pursuing a villain who was attempting to escape.
the player was using his Sniper skill (Sharpshooting did not exist as a skill yet), while trying to slow his descent by sprawling, in hopes that one of the flyers would catch him after he took out the villain.

[GreenGhost]

Yeah, the old sniper debate... How it rages.

I still think the most realistic way to do it would be to allow an armour to be penetrated after it receives a certain percentage of it's total in a single hit. Any damage above the amount required to penetrate hits the squishy underneath. It's harsh, but it's true. You might even give the player characters the "hero factor" and keep the rules the same for them, or increase the percentages.
Say 25-40% for EBA , 35-55% for PA, 60-70% for robots and vehicles/fortifications.

Rather than having to get a hit that does 100 mega damage: " you blow his armour completely off his body, but due to the "remaining armour rule, he takes no damage!" you could actually have a reasonable chance to penetrate EBA (especially helmats/light armour) with a standard/high powered energy weapon.

This has gotten a little off the topic I think, but still- I agree with you. There should be some sort of penetration Value for some of the energy weapons, not to mention Railguns and special rounds like the DUI and Ramjet. I keep thinking of the cover picture of Juicer Uprising. That CS Deadboy has a single "bullet" hole in his helmet with blood trickling out. Kind of looks like a sniper shot to me

[Sentinel]

Penetration value for e-weapons might not be a bad idea: I'd want to work out some details in execution, but I'd be willing to try it.

I think it would still go better to have armour have less MDC/SDC in comparison to small arms.

[bigbobsr6000]

What about the kinetic energy of the hit forcing violent head movement enough to snap the neck? Or at least knock the guy down.

The one hit gets a save vs coma/death to see if the hit did break his neck.

[Natasha]

Do energy gun "ammo" have kinetic energy?

Bob you're deadly. I like it.

[GreenGhost]

Penetration value for e-weapons might not be a bad idea: I'd want to work out some details in execution, but I'd be willing to try it.

I think it would still go better to have armour have less MDC/SDC in comparison to small arms.

I think I'll start a forum on it- so I won't change the topic in here anymore

[Sentinel]

Penetration value for e-weapons might not be a bad idea: I'd want to work out some details in execution, but I'd be willing to try it.

I think it would still go better to have armour have less MDC/SDC in comparison to small arms.

I think I'll start a forum on it- so I won't change the topic in here anymore

Well, get on with it.
We're not getting any younger.

[GreenGhost]

Penetration value for e-weapons might not be a bad idea: I'd want to work out some details in execution, but I'd be willing to try it.

I think it would still go better to have armour have less MDC/SDC in comparison to small arms.

I think I'll start a forum on it- so I won't change the topic in here anymore

Well, get on with it.
We're not getting any younger.

Be nice man- I'm a knuckle dragging JarHead (well former JarHead, but the knuckles still drag a little).

It's in the Rifts Forum now

[Sentinel]

Penetration value for e-weapons might not be a bad idea: I'd want to work out some details in execution, but I'd be willing to try it.

I think it would still go better to have armour have less MDC/SDC in comparison to small arms.

I think I'll start a forum on it- so I won't change the topic in here anymore

Well, get on with it.
We're not getting any younger.

Be nice man- I'm a knuckle dragging JarHead (well former JarHead, but the knuckles still drag a little).

It's in the Rifts Forum now

Show some love to HU and N&SS:
there are a lot of sniper-style characters in both games.

HU in particular boasts Hunter/Vigilantes and Secret Operatives (as well as Super-SOLDIERS), while N&SS has several merc/military style O.C.C.s.

[Natasha]

Penetration value for e-weapons might not be a bad idea: I'd want to work out some details in execution, but I'd be willing to try it.

I think it would still go better to have armour have less MDC/SDC in comparison to small arms.

I think I'll start a forum on it- so I won't change the topic in here anymore

Well, get on with it.
We're not getting any younger.

Be nice man- I'm a knuckle dragging JarHead (well former JarHead, but the knuckles still drag a little).

It's in the Rifts Forum now

Show some love to HU and N&SS:
there are a lot of sniper-style characters in both games.

HU in particular boasts Hunter/Vigilantes and Secret Operatives (as well as Super-SOLDIERS), while N&SS has several merc/military style O.C.C.s.

But they're not MDC worlds.

[Sentinel]

But they're not MDC worlds.

To some extent, the disparity ratio between Armour and Weapon damage is a persistant problem there too.

[Natasha]

But they're not MDC worlds.

To some extent, the disparity ratio between Armour and Weapon damage is a persistant problem there too.

I see where you're going.