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King Heart wrote:Not trying to incite a flame war here, but I have always been a little underwhelmed by Temporal Magic. It is held out to be insanely powerful so that only certain gods and very limited classes can dream of having access. From my read of the spells it seems to be a super powerful set of spells for the purpose for infiltration or espionage. and thats it.

if y'all think differently please tell me some other useful broad range applications of the spells and not just "dude with TM I can wrinkle you"

gadrin wrote:Here's a Munchkin/Min/Max version of getting the most out of Temporal Magic.

INSTA-PPE FOR 2+ PROMETHEANS

Promethean RCC from Phase World, don't even have to be magic user OCC
preferably all involved are Promethean Phase Adepts, but don't have to be
Prometheans can learn Temporal Spells in lieu of skills
each Promethean RCC is a master psychic
each takes FOURTH DIMENSIONAL TRANSFORMATION
each has RESTORE PPE (minor healing psi-power)
starting PPE is 3d6x10+PE, so max is 180+30 or 210
starting ISP is 3d4x10+ME, so max is 120+22 or 144
starting ISP for Phase Adept is 1D4x100+ME, so max is 400+22 or 422

Promethean A casts Fourth Dimensional Transformation, needs 350 PPE so he
uses his own 200 + draws the other 150 from his buddy.

Now that he's a 4th Dimensional Being, he has automatic access to 1200 ISP
He then uses RESTORE PPE to turn 600+ ISP into 300+ PPE and gives that to his
buddy. Should still have plenty of ISP left over.

His buddy now casts 4th Dimensional Transformation and now has 1200 ISP and
can restore 300 PPE to his friend. Providing you keep enough PPE to start the
process, you should be able to keep this up for a while, or whenever needed.

Another good spell to choose in addition to 4th Dimension Trans, would be ID SELF,
which lets you summon a duplicate of yourself...

Also, if they're Phase Adepts, they're mind melters and can remove the bad side
effects of the 4th Dimensional Transformation later on.

Mind Melters can Mind Wipe away things, and Mind Bleeders (there's bound to be one around Center someplace) can Mental Block off bad thoughts

Needless to say you don't want to cause trouble for the Promethean Phase Adepts on my version of Center.

gadrin wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
Just go to Palladium Fantasy and get a Mind Mage...they have a power that just removies Insanties outright.

which is what the Mind Melter is based off of in Rifts, right ?

if so, then Mind Wipe will be able to do it as well, since it says:

touching his victim's temples to erase whatever he desires. This is done by verbal suggestion and can erase any past event, knowledge, skill, and so on.

So if you're a Promethean, especially a Phase Adept or know Phase Mystics, you're already in the Mind Melter's Club no problem.

gadrin wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:No, she's referring to the power "Cure Insanity," which I don't think has made any out of PF appearances.

but isn't the Mind Melter just the Rifts equivalent of the Mind Mage ?

I'm sure the PFRPG purists will argue that, but I really don't see them being that much different.

Cures by a Mind Mage can be faster and more effective because
the character can use hypnosis and other psionic abilities to probe and
understand his patient in order to help him. The Mind Mage must be 6th
level or higher. Requires six weeks of therapy with the following results:

As far as "you can't do that!" (mix PFRPG & Rifts) you'd have to be kidding. Rifts (and Palladium in general) is a house rule extravaganza.

gadrin wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:No, she's referring to the power "Cure Insanity," which I don't think has made any out of PF appearances.

but isn't the Mind Melter just the Rifts equivalent of the Mind Mage ?

I'm sure the PFRPG purists will argue that, but I really don't see them being that much different.

Cures by a Mind Mage can be faster and more effective because
the character can use hypnosis and other psionic abilities to probe and
understand his patient in order to help him. The Mind Mage must be 6th
level or higher. Requires six weeks of therapy with the following results:

As far as "you can't do that!" (mix PFRPG & Rifts) you'd have to be kidding. Rifts (and Palladium in general) is a house rule extravaganza.

gadrin wrote:Here's a Munchkin/Min/Max version of getting the most out of Temporal Magic.

INSTA-PPE FOR 2+ PROMETHEANS

Promethean RCC from Phase World, don't even have to be magic user OCC
preferably all involved are Promethean Phase Adepts, but don't have to be
Prometheans can learn Temporal Spells in lieu of skills
each Promethean RCC is a master psychic
each takes FOURTH DIMENSIONAL TRANSFORMATION
each has RESTORE PPE (minor healing psi-power)
starting PPE is 3d6x10+PE, so max is 180+30 or 210
starting ISP is 3d4x10+ME, so max is 120+22 or 144
starting ISP for Phase Adept is 1D4x100+ME, so max is 400+22 or 422

Promethean A casts Fourth Dimensional Transformation, needs 350 PPE so he
uses his own 200 + draws the other 150 from his buddy.

Now that he's a 4th Dimensional Being, he has automatic access to 1200 ISP
He then uses RESTORE PPE to turn 600+ ISP into 300+ PPE and gives that to his
buddy. Should still have plenty of ISP left over.

His buddy now casts 4th Dimensional Transformation and now has 1200 ISP and
can restore 300 PPE to his friend. Providing you keep enough PPE to start the
process, you should be able to keep this up for a while, or whenever needed.

Another good spell to choose in addition to 4th Dimension Trans, would be ID SELF,
which lets you summon a duplicate of yourself...

Also, if they're Phase Adepts, they're mind melters and can remove the bad side
effects of the 4th Dimensional Transformation later on.

Mind Melters can Mind Wipe away things, and Mind Bleeders (there's bound to be one around Center someplace) can Mental Block off bad thoughts

Needless to say you don't want to cause trouble for the Promethean Phase Adepts on my version of Center.

King Heart wrote:Not trying to incite a flame war here, but I have always been a little underwhelmed by Temporal Magic. It is held out to be insanely powerful so that only certain gods and very limited classes can dream of having access. From my read of the spells it seems to be a super powerful set of spells for the purpose for infiltration or espionage. and thats it.

if y'all think differently please tell me some other useful broad range applications of the spells and not just "dude with TM I can wrinkle you"

Tyciol wrote:My main interest's in ID self. Nothing better than summoning versions of yourself from another dimension and enslaving them.

Marcethus wrote:TW's can learn spells yes but would a temporal caster teach them the spell? alot of mages (though they use TW devices alot) tend to disdain the TW.

Rockwolf66 wrote:Imagine a Machine Pistol with 4.5 Million Ramjet rounds in the Magazine!

Glistam wrote:Perhaps the Create Metal spell could be modified to allow one to "reload" the bullets magically.

Mark Hall wrote:Only if you're dealing with a railgun. Otherwise, you also need a "Create Explosive element" spell.

milomilo wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:Silly question, can wards make spells permanent, or only other wards?

There is a brief paragraph on that subject in I believe the 1st palladium world book, where it talks about wards. Basically it says you can use the permenance (sp) ward to give a character a spell effect permenantly, but you have to sew the ward into them. after a while it becomes a part of the person and is difficult to remove. Now outside of sewing them into a human body, I can't remember if you can use them to make spells permenant, because I never used that so much. If i'm not mistaken you can, to an extent....
With sewing them into people as far as I remember the only other limitation was that it couldn't be a spell like sub-particle acceleration, but you could use spells like see in magical darkness, etc. The description in the book does a much better job of telling the kind of spells that can be used.

So yes, technically you can do it. The odds I suppose of finding someone willing to sew one into you if you don't know wards or magic is slim to none though. That's why I mostly used it to augment major or main NPC villians: SN strength or speed, etc. And if it gets ripped out of them... man that hurts, and I do believe they have a decent chance of dying, but I'd have to go back and look at the description myself.

milomilo wrote:

Marcethus wrote:

milomilo wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:Silly question, can wards make spells permanent, or only other wards?

There is a brief paragraph on that subject in I believe the 1st palladium world book, where it talks about wards. Basically it says you can use the permenance (sp) ward to give a character a spell effect permenantly, but you have to sew the ward into them. after a while it becomes a part of the person and is difficult to remove. Now outside of sewing them into a human body, I can't remember if you can use them to make spells permenant, because I never used that so much. If i'm not mistaken you can, to an extent....
With sewing them into people as far as I remember the only other limitation was that it couldn't be a spell like sub-particle acceleration, but you could use spells like see in magical darkness, etc. The description in the book does a much better job of telling the kind of spells that can be used.

So yes, technically you can do it. The odds I suppose of finding someone willing to sew one into you if you don't know wards or magic is slim to none though. That's why I mostly used it to augment major or main NPC villians: SN strength or speed, etc. And if it gets ripped out of them... man that hurts, and I do believe they have a decent chance of dying, but I'd have to go back and look at the description myself.

IIRC It would have to be a Ward effect linked with the Permanance Ward. I don't think it would work on a spell effect.

At least with sewing them into people, the paragraph is talking about regular spells because it gives examples of powers that can and can not be instilled and they are all magic spells... I'm about 98% sure of that, mostly because it's been a while since I've looked at it myself, but I'll have to go home and check. Though I'm pretty sure it was talking about spells.