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Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:19 pm
by Razzinold
I don't do anything special for "normal" humans, just like I don't reward someone for being a Juicer, Borg, Mage, etc. I have them roll their stats in order and that is that. The beauty of this game is everyone is free to choose whatever they want to play. Nobody should be rewarded or treated different based on PC choice. In my last game My wife picked a Psi-Slinger, my buddy a wired gunslinger, my other buddy a Juicer and his girlfriend a cowboy, not even a gunfighter or justice ranger, just a cowboy. That was her choice to make so I didn't baby her in anyway, i.e. no extra equipment, no magic armour. I was fair to everyone around the table. But that's just my opinion, doesn't mean it's right, just means it's mine.
Happy Gaming!
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:31 pm
by SkyeFyre
They're human. That's their choice. They get no babying from me. Because they're weaker they can generally garner some higher experience rewards as per game mechanics, but there's no going easy on them.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:36 pm
by Killer Cyborg
IMHO, humans don't need any edge beyond what they already have.
But if you're looking for one, check out Lonestar.
In any case, I posted a response (several, really) to a similar (but not identical) question in another thread:
viewtopic.php?p=319331#319331
Killer Cyborg wrote:I like humans as much, or more, than the next guy.
Whenever somebody asks the old "If you could be any animal, what would you be" question, I say "Human".
But they definitely get the short end of the stick in Rifts.
They are SDC creatures with no supernatural abilites and no real attribute bonuses.
In the main book, and Sourcebook 1, this was balanced out by a few other things:
1. Humans are versatile.
2. Humans are the majority.
Humans can be mages, psychics, or M&Ms.
They can use power armor or pilot a good vehicle.
They can fit standard EBA, while the only armor that can fit most non-humans is either custom-made armor or modified Dog Pack armor.
Sure, a dragon can kill a human without even trying at times... but they have the downside of being a dragon.
Try to go into the nearest human town for supplies in your natural form and you get shot by the local militia.
Go into town in human form and you can pass for human... but not indefinitely. If there's a long line at the MegaMarket or something, you might end up reverting to your natural form in a crowded place and end up shot by panicky people around you.
But that was in the past.
Now we have dragons like the Chiang Ku that can appear human indefinitely.
Worse yet, we have Neo-Humans and other RCCs that look like normal humans, but are better in every way.
No balance there... you get the best of both worlds with no downside.
Basically, while humans have it increasingly worse relative to other races, as more and more unbalanced races are created, they don't need to be buffed up in order to compete.
Other races need to be kept more in check.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:27 pm
by lather
A player presumably chooses to play a human because he or she wants to play a human. Give them that.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:22 pm
by glitterboy2098
humans get the nifty ability to get exceptional stats (if they roll a 16+)
unless it says specifically, i don't allow that for any other race. usually because said races have bonuses or special abilities or special powers already.
humans have the advantage of being anything, from soldiers to scientists to surgeons to mages to mindmelters.
most other races are much more limited in such selections.
in short humanities strength is their jack of all trades nature.
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:32 pm
by Rimmerdal
playing human means they just need tech or Magic to balance out..Which RCC/OCC's provide.
No powers or other racial abilities doesn't mean there wimpy. CS Dead boys are 'just human' it's all how they are played and how well the interact. Rogue scholars can with the right weapon and right tactic take done far more powerful foes than themselves...so I wouldn't worry.
It's all about the player being smart enough to survive.
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:55 pm
by Dog_O_War
I offer them nothing. They knew what they were getting into when they picked human.
Though I will add that I don't allow the power differenciation between races to be too far apart. No 100+ natural MD creatures in a party of humans, no humans in a party of 100+ natural MD creatures, and all that stuff.
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:56 am
by bigbobsr6000
What ever a player decides to be, they don't get any extra consideration. I always play a human on the rare times I'm not GMing. I feel it is more of a challange. And when my armor gets to half protection or less I leave combat. Playing plain human Commando or other none magical/psionic OCC leads to more interesting game play.
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:00 pm
by Shorty Lickens
I dont do anything special.
People pick their OCC's or RCC's and thats how they play.
If I did something special for them the games classes wouldnt have much of a point.
Its important to remember this isnt Final Fantasy, its a real roleplaying game. People dont just stand across from each other and slug it out.
Role-playing is what decides their fate, nothing else. If the player chooses to stand out in a field and shoot dragons thats his business. When he gets vaporized he will learn his lesson.
A good party will evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of each member and play accordingly. Of course, as the DM its my job to make sure the campaign and its encounters are balanced to the party.
If I get a group of 5 players who all wish to be full-conversion borgs thats fine.
They might be a little suprised at the types of encounters I plan for them, but class selection was their choice.
Same deal if my group decides they all want to be city rats and vagabonds. I'm not going to send in an army of Cosmo-Knights to annihilate them just because they skulk around in the alleys.
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:53 am
by GreenGhost
Alejandro wrote:I ask for no special treatment if I'm a human player, and I give no special treatment if I'm the GM.
I always play humans because it's what I identify with. I play them because it's a hell of a lot more challenging to assault a building filled with gargoyles with 4 CS Special Forces then it is with 4 dragon hatchlings. You have to think more as a human player. You think or you die....and your end is not a good one. Most human player deaths end with the corpse/leftover pieces being cooked and eaten by whatever killed you.
For some unknown reason, human beings are the Kit Kat's of the Multiverse.
Agreed.
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:23 pm
by Dog_O_War
macksting wrote:Do you make the same distinction with full conversion cyborgs?
Borgs are a special case. I don't allow them the greatest armour available, but they can still select from the cyborg armours (usually the lightest ones only).
Why do I allow borgs? they don't regen. or otherwise heal naturally. It offers the same limitor that the others have; humans can't take MD, so they must keep armour (and repair armour). Borgs can take MD, ususally more than a human in armour (or even certain powered armours), but have to repair.
In essence the character archetype has the same limitors as humans have, though they trade initial robustness for the inability to go into the negatives, and the general bulls' eye most large metallic objects have in Rifts.
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:29 am
by Iczer
glitterboy2098 wrote:humans get the nifty ability to get exceptional stats (if they roll a 16+)
unless it says specifically, i don't allow that for any other race. usually because said races have bonuses or special abilities or special powers already.
humans have the advantage of being anything, from soldiers to scientists to surgeons to mages to mindmelters.
most other races are much more limited in such selections.
in short humanities strength is their jack of all trades nature.
Actually this is great for the species, but absolutley useless from a character perspective.
Yes. humans can get exceptional attributes. Sadly, other races aren't excluded from those same bonuses (it's not a human only specification, just a 3D6 specification). in addition, DB's uniformly get better attributes overall, whereas humans, on the whole, have around 10 for an attribute.
Yes Humans can be anything...except RCC's which are, by and large, fairly superior, and a great chunk of OCC's are in fact not Human specific at all. and frankly, if I'm set on playing a GB pilot, and I have a non human option, then the fact that race 'X' cannot be, oh, rouge scholars, will not bother me one little bit.
Batts
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:57 pm
by bigbobsr6000
I refer to humans in MDC armor like hard-shell candy. "You have to get through the shell to get to the soft creamy center." MMMMmmmmmmm.....good.
Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:05 am
by sasha
Yea I know I prefer humans.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:25 am
by KillWatch
Haven't revamped Rifts (yet) but I've overhauled Palladium and for each of the bonuses the other races have over humans, they recieve a per level penalty. So like an elf might have a 289 penalty, Every level they tack 289 to the xp needed for next level. However other than that
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:48 pm
by cyber-yukongil v2.5
I agree with Al, playing a human is its own reward. Surviving in a party of demons, dragons and db's gives a thrill of accomplishment like no other. And I find a human player will typically shine in such a party, because they have to come up with more devilish and intricate plans other than, I HIT IT! If they want to survive.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:12 pm
by Rimmerdal
We humans are simply far more adeptible...were the magaversal rat. You throw us anywhere and that human WILL find a way to make it out alive 9 times out of 10.
Kind of scary realy.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:16 pm
by Rimmerdal
So, any indirectly pro-human house rules? Maybe the old "Whatever the dice results, boost relevant stats up to minimum value for the O.C.C. you want"?
Certain Psychic Classes are human only..aside from that a human is not blocked by salt, isn't vunerable to silver or doesn't melt when hit by holy water.
Our big edge, both in character and from the GM angle is technolgies, psionics and magic. we can use all three with few restrictions.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:38 pm
by bigbobsr6000
Dr. Shiny wrote:Wow, I expected to be outnumbered here but not this heavily. Just curious, do all of you roll stats straight with no opportunity for re-allocation? 'Cause even if you did so for all races i'd still count that as a bigger advantage for humans as that allows them some control of their own character concept. Without that playing a human is a liability if you want any O.C.C. with stat requirements. With nonhumans players can just pick one of many with higher stats in the areas you need.
So, any indirectly pro-human house rules? Maybe the old "Whatever the dice results, boost relevant stats up to minimum value for the O.C.C. you want"?
This thread is interesting. Reading these forums sometimes give me the impression that such house rules are used by at least 60% of all gaming groups, but here it's another story.
I Have players roll the attributes the same for all races. Then they can put the results into any attribute they want. Not a straight roll in order of the attributes. There isn't any pro-human house rule. As long as they meet the requirements for any allowable OCC, they can take it. And I have had human PCs that were magic users with major psionics (rolled for it and got it) and proficient with tech stuff due to skill selections within the OCC of choice. And other races have the same chance to do the same thing.
Hope this helps.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:45 pm
by Natasha
Roll in the order listed. It's easiest to keep track.
If you really want to play an O.C.C. I have no issue with bumping the stat, especially if it can't be accomplished with Physical Skills.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:07 pm
by sasha
Some times I think rolling 8 times and slotting the rolls in attributes is cheesey.
Some times I like cheese.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:10 pm
by bigbobsr6000
Natasha wrote:Roll in the order listed. It's easiest to keep track.
That's one way and since you like that's great. I personally prefer just rolling the stats 8 times and let the player put them in the attributes they want.
Here's what I usually do to have players roll stats.
Method 1. Roll 4d6 and keep the highest 3d6 and add them together. They do this 9 times and then discard the lowest total of the 9. Then they can put them in the stats they want.
Method 2. Roll 3d6 and rerolls 1's and 2's once. They do this 9 times and then discard the lowest total of the 9. Then they can put them in the stats they want.
Method 3. Roll 3d6 and rerolls all 1's until it comes higher than 1. They do this 9 times and then discard the lowest total of the 9. Then they can put them in the stats they want.
With any of the methods I use above, they all still get the 1d6 roll for each 16, 17 or 18 they roll. And I do not limit the number of Nat 6's they can add to this roll. If they roll 6 Nat 6's in a row and then roll a 1 they get to add 37 to their 16-18 roll of the orginal stat roll.
I use the same Method I choose for all palyers and races. If I decide to sue Method 2, all use Method 2.
Anyway, that's the way(s) I have players roll stats.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:16 pm
by sasha
Natasha wrote:Roll in the order listed. It's easiest to keep track.
Or at least the quickest.
How random do you want to go is the question.
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:03 pm
by KillWatch
I roll the stats straight down the line. With palladium there is no reason not to since skills can alter the attributes.
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:35 pm
by bigbobsr6000
Another reason I like humans and don't give any extra stuff to, they are more soft and squuishy. Especially for a GM.
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:10 pm
by Dog_O_War
Dr. Shiny wrote:Wow, I expected to be outnumbered here but not this heavily. Just curious, do all of you roll stats straight with no opportunity for re-allocation? 'Cause even if you did so for all races i'd still count that as a bigger advantage for humans as that allows them some control of their own character concept. Without that playing a human is a liability if you want any O.C.C. with stat requirements. With nonhumans players can just pick one of many with higher stats in the areas you need.
So, any indirectly pro-human house rules? Maybe the old "Whatever the dice results, boost relevant stats up to minimum value for the O.C.C. you want"?
This thread is interesting. Reading these forums sometimes give me the impression that such house rules are used by at least 60% of all gaming groups, but here it's another story.
I use the following system for rolling;
Roll 3d6 (or indicated number as per specific race) and roll in order.
Once this has been done, you may re-roll any one stat (taking the newer result, even if it's lower).
Then you may swap two stats with each other, twice (can switch speed with IQ, and then PS with PP, or speed with IQ, then the new IQ with PS, etc...). If you are of a race that offers different dice for stats (like 2d6+1 for PB or something) only stats with the exact dice and bonus may be switched.
As far as OCC's with stat requirements, generally we'll either re-roll or just make sure we qualify after the bonuses from skills are tallied.
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:56 pm
by Iczer
Rimmerdal wrote:We humans are simply far more adeptible...were the magaversal rat. You throw us anywhere and that human WILL find a way to make it out alive 9 times out of 10.
Kind of scary realy.
gone through a lot of the rifts books I have and have yet to find that particular rule. Is there a 'roll with dire situation'? or a natural 'get out of hazardous circumstance +20%' bonus that they get?
I didn't think so.
It's implied that humans are this way, in numerous places across several books.
But there is no game mechanic for it. The game mechanics contradict the statement in a lot kore places, by makinghundreds of DB races and species that are, in fact, better at surviving. (higher attributes, special abilities and , heck, even MDC)
Batts
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:05 pm
by Rimmerdal
Iczer wrote:Rimmerdal wrote:We humans are simply far more adeptible...were the magaversal rat. You throw us anywhere and that human WILL find a way to make it out alive 9 times out of 10.
Kind of scary realy.
gone through a lot of the rifts books I have and have yet to find that particular rule. Is there a 'roll with dire situation'? or a natural 'get out of hazardous circumstance +20%' bonus that they get?
I didn't think so.
It's implied that humans are this way, in numerous places across several books.
But there is no game mechanic for it. The game mechanics contradict the statement in a lot kore places, by makinghundreds of DB races and species that are, in fact, better at surviving. (higher attributes, special abilities and , heck, even MDC)
Batts
If they did make Being human rules offical it would be making us an RCC and we all know how that goes with the locals here. Otherwise humans wouldnn't be around.
Look at all the Pally games there is some sort 'human' in all settings. Offical or not we humans are here to stay. though an earth with humans extinct or near extinct could be interesting...now that's an idea.