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Ok,

the most (deservedly) maligned supplement ever made for the Robotech RPG first edition has to be Lancer's Rockers. Lets be honest, hokey is the most favourable term that can be made for it. Its got some good parts (the Krugatch) and some really, really awful ones (Instrumecha, the giant Invid Battloid). So, what to do?

Well, I think it can be salvaged and rewritten. Simple steps need to be done first though:

- delete the Instrumecha, all of them (the Sonic Lance doesn't really count). They are stupid and kinda detract from the actual story.
- Delete the special/new Invid mecha (no reason for them to exist)
- Remove all references to Scott Bernard's crew as the story will now be taking place about the same time as Scott and company are treking to Reflex Point
- Modify all mention of the EBSIS mecha etc to conform to Robotech (their Battloids are actually all UEF model Battloids/Powered Armour). Keep the Triton's as captured mecha with modified weapons (machinegunes in place of blasters in the forearms) and repainted to Krugatch colours instead of being Juggernauts.
- Modify the Krugatch Sickle & Hammer Battloid to remove the sonic weapons (maybe even remove that its built by the Invid as well).
- Revamp the various non-player character's backgrounds/motivations. Yellow Dancer would be the inspiration, not Lancer.
- Either delete or modify all adventures involving Sera, Carla Maxwell and Lancer.
- The final battle should be at Reflex Point, where the characters are attempting to make it after fleeing New Detroit at the beginning during the Invid crackdown (maybe a full year before the Battle of Reflex Point) and traveling around a bit before finding Alistair and The Sonic Lance. Perhaps have them make it to a location where Lancer, Scott and company have just passed through (maybe they hear of Yellow Dancer's concert in New York but don't make it in time to witness it etc).

You can keep the motivations for the PCs pretty much as is: Roadies/Body Guards for the traveling New Detroit Rockers. The final scene should be The New Detroit Rockers being the opening act for Yellow Dancer's Final Concert.

I actually enjoyed the Lancer's Rockers suppliment.


Then again I also enjoyed Truckin' Turtles and Turtles go Hollywood.


I never let fear of seeming silly get in the way of a good time.

Incidently, the PC's aren't suppsoed to be the Rockers' Roadies/Groupies - they are supposed to be the Rockers

Jefffar wrote:Incidently, the PC's aren't suppsoed to be the Rockers' Roadies/Groupies - they are supposed to be the Rockers

You sure? My copy is packed away, but I could swear that the PCs are supposed to be the band's roadies.

Nope, the PCs are suppsoed to be the wielders of the instrumecha and the climax is playing along with Lancer/Yellow to send out dampening waves to prevent the Sonic Titan's damaging attacks.


I agree the book is totally cheese, but it's a lot of fun if you can get past that.

Jefffar wrote:Nope, the PCs are suppsoed to be the wielders of the instrumecha and the climax is playing along with Lancer/Yellow to send out dampening waves to prevent the Sonic Titan's damaging attacks.


I agree the book is totally cheese, but it's a lot of fun if you can get past that.

The drum kit rawks the house...literaly

Well, Palladium stole a march on Macross 7 with the instrumecha....

I mean, com'on, a Varitech controlled by a guitar?
Makes Instrumecha look positively REASONABLE...

Yeah, sink those seismic needles!

I don't really get what the beef is with the instrumecha. Music plays a big part in the Robotech show; Lancer's Rockers brought it to the RPG. Okay, it was a bit silly, but not any worse than, well, giant transforming robots piloted by cross dressers and alien half-breeds. The point was to include music in the game in a way that actually mattered in a conventional RPG context.

Pax Concord wrote:I don't really get what the beef is with the instrumecha. Music plays a big part in the Robotech show

Yes, but Lancer's Rockers used music in a way altogether alien to Robotech: as an actual weapon. Minmay's singing was Psychological Warfare; The Cosmic Harp was used to render docile clones that had specially implanted cybernetics; Yellow Dancer's concerts were subversive. At no time in Robotech is music used to actually FRAG the opponents. That is a concept wholey from SDF Macross which was intentionally cut from Robotech (Carl Macek clearly talks about this in Robotech Art 1). The concept of Instrumecha is an absurdity that breaks the suspension of disbelief necessary to accept giant robots, alien menaces, super fuels and so on and so forth.

The Sonic Lance, while still an Instrumecha, is at least supposed to be some sort of cannon that focuses sound waves to produce an actual weapon capable of destroying an enemy vehicle.

Perhaps so, but then again, the book would have to have been approved by Harmony Gold so obviously it wasn't too far fetched for them.


Of course if one doesn't attempt to take it as a serious part of the Robotech continuity and instead takes it as the wild and wacky game suppliment it was intended to be it is a lot more enjoyable.

IT also had two cool new classes the EBSIS soldier and and REF Intel pers.
and the cool new cyclone repair skill.
the APC was cool as were the battle bikes, I still use these as base model military bikes in eith RT or Rifts.

Jefffar wrote:Perhaps so, but then again, the book would have to have been approved by Harmony Gold so obviously it wasn't too far fetched for them.

yeah, Lancers Rockers along with Robotech Clone and Mordicia and the horrid Alternate-U comics prooved HG was Hard-on-the-ball keeping their IP up to a certian standard.
or rather, they didnt care wat happened as long as the Royalties check cleared...

taalismn wrote:Well, Palladium stole a march on Macross 7 with the instrumecha....

I mean, com'on, a Varitech controlled by a guitar?
Makes Instrumecha look positively REASONABLE...

are you saying Palladium was Inspired by Macross7, or the other way around?
being Lancers Rockers came out in 1988... and MAcross 7 in 1994....

Jefffar wrote:Perhaps so, but then again, the book would have to have been approved by Harmony Gold so obviously it wasn't too far fetched for them.

By Harmony Gold's own admission, they basically rubberstamped anything that was paid for if it came across their desk. This was especially apparent after many of the crew/cast left to go to Saban Productions (of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers fame).

Wildfire wrote:the APC was cool as were the battle bikes, I still use these as base model military bikes in eith RT or Rifts.

It would be nice to get someone to draw the Krugatch APC. IIRC, isn't it wheeled? Sort of like the old Russian BMP?

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with salvaging Lancer's Rockers and bringing it in line with Robotech's continuity.

BMPs were tracked, BTRs were wheeled.

The Krugtach UAV doesn't make much sense tactically or from Soviet doctrine and design - it's too big and clumsy

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

Pax Concord wrote:I don't really get what the beef is with the instrumecha. Music plays a big part in the Robotech show

Yes, but Lancer's Rockers used music in a way altogether alien to Robotech: as an actual weapon. Minmay's singing was Psychological Warfare; The Cosmic Harp was used to render docile clones that had specially implanted cybernetics; Yellow Dancer's concerts were subversive. At no time in Robotech is music used to actually FRAG the opponents.

Sure, the writers tried something new while using themes that were reasonably consistant with the original show. I admit that instruments that inflict megadamage isn't the most imaginitive solution, but it's not bad.

Part of what makes Lancer's Rockers a bit cringe-worthy is that it's aged badly. It came out in 1989, before the collapse of the Soviety Union, and during a (arguably) rather dismal period in rock'n roll history.

The instrumecha would have made for a great Microman-style toy line with clear plastic parts and snazzy electric colors...but otherwise?

"We're in the middle of a fight for our lives! LET'S ROCK HARD!!!"
just doesn't cut it like:
"Everybody get out of here, I'm going to MISSILE STORM this Invid swarm!"

oddly, i find i actually agree with most of Ravid's points. (quick, someone check the temprature of hades...)

the main things i disagree with are how he treats the EBSIS mecha. and that's because i like EBSIS, think they actually do fit into robotech, and am willing to retain the mecha, just ignoring the old art.

one bit of idea for this is that the Krugatch working for the invid can probably be retained, just treated like Col. Wolfe's deal with the invid in the show. the krugatch hunt down and eliminate resistance in north america in exchange for protoculture and amnisty. the california adventure could be changed to be the invid are testing a new mecha (the multi-mode overlord perhaps), and the players find out about it and have to travel across the continent and into california to organize an attack to try and destroy the prototypes.

definately more interesting than the stupid bronto-slug with sonic cannon.

the sonic lance, if kept in, could be the invention of a UEG scientist that had been captured by the invid (and kept for their knowledge of variable form mecha, forced to help the invid refine the Overlord)
perhaps the invid are also interested in sonic weapons for human pacification, and the lance was kept for study? then the guy escapes, steals the lance back, and makes his way to the PC's area..(maybe the lance is the one weapon able to exploit a weakness in the overlord, making it the weapon needed to win the final battle easily?)

in any case, the lance should become a pure sonic weapon, just drop the silly keyboard part.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

Wildfire wrote:the APC was cool as were the battle bikes, I still use these as base model military bikes in eith RT or Rifts.

It would be nice to get someone to draw the Krugatch APC. IIRC, isn't it wheeled? Sort of like the old Russian BMP?

Krugatch APC seen here

Jefffar wrote:

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

Jefffar wrote:Incidently, the PC's aren't suppsoed to be the Rockers' Roadies/Groupies - they are supposed to be the Rockers

You sure? My copy is packed away, but I could swear that the PCs are supposed to be the band's roadies.

Nope, the PCs are suppsoed to be the wielders of the instrumecha and the climax is playing along with Lancer/Yellow to send out dampening waves to prevent the Sonic Titan's damaging attacks.

checking my copy, it's written from the idea that the PC's would be the band with the instrumecha, but it does mention you could adapt things so the players could be roadies or groupies working with the Band.
either way, kinda silly.

though the iea of a resistance group that hides in plain sight as a band would be a neat aspect to use in a revised book, treated like what lancer was doing.

glitterboy2098 wrote:oddly, i find i actually agree with most of Ravid's points. (quick, someone check the temprature of hades...)

Hehe, well there has been record snowfall lately.

the main things i disagree with are how he treats the EBSIS mecha. and that's because i like EBSIS, think they actually do fit into robotech, and am willing to retain the mecha, just ignoring the old art.

Now, now, I do say that we keep the basis for the EBSIS around, we just call it the Anti-Unification League (which would naturally be a much larger organization than the old EBSIS). I even said keep the artwork of the Triton's from the original, just change the backstory to fit that they were models captured by Krugatch (probably raided an old Army of the Southern Cross base) instead of actually being EBSIS mecha.

one bit of idea for this is that the Krugatch working for the invid can probably be retained, just treated like Col. Wolfe's deal with the invid in the show. the krugatch hunt down and eliminate resistance in north america in exchange for protoculture and amnisty. the california adventure could be changed to be the invid are testing a new mecha (the multi-mode overlord perhaps), and the players find out about it and have to travel across the continent and into california to organize an attack to try and destroy the prototypes.

Ok, that can work too. But get rid of that oversized Invid/Krugatch abomination on wheels. Ugh.

the sonic lance, if kept in, could be the invention of a UEG scientist that had been captured by the invid

Eh, I have no problem with Alistair being an old UEG scientist, but its probably better to make it that the Sonic Lance comes not from Invid technology, but fallen Robotech Masters technology. Basically a refinement of the Cosmic Harp idea, but applied to a weapon.

in any case, the lance should become a pure sonic weapon, just drop the silly keyboard part.

Ugh, I agree. Maybe make it a mecha-grade weapon that is supposed to replace the standard gun pod?

though the iea of a resistance group that hides in plain sight as a band would be a neat aspect to use in a revised book, treated like what lancer was doing.

Which is what I was thinking as well, though I think it would be better to keep the PCs as Roadies/Bodyguards instead of the actual performers.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:the main things i disagree with are how he treats the EBSIS mecha. and that's because i like EBSIS, think they actually do fit into robotech, and am willing to retain the mecha, just ignoring the old art.

Now, now, I do say that we keep the basis for the EBSIS around, we just call it the Anti-Unification League (which would naturally be a much larger organization than the old EBSIS). I even said keep the artwork of the Triton's from the original, just change the backstory to fit that they were models captured by Krugatch (probably raided an old Army of the Southern Cross base) instead of actually being EBSIS mecha.

and i see the Anti-Un rebels as a losely organized bunch of terrorists and rebels, and the EBSIS as a full fledged independant nation.

the EBSIS get to keep their unique mecha (just with new original art), and can supply them to Anti-Un groups, or supply the Anti-UN groups with captured EUG guns and vehicles.

then the krugatch can be one of these Anti-UN groups, supplied with soviet derived mecha and gear.


frankly, until palladium gets word back on whether they can keep the EBSIS, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. ultimately we end up with similar results, via different methods anyway...

the sonic lance, if kept in, could be the invention of a UEG scientist that had been captured by the invid

Eh, I have no problem with Alistair being an old UEG scientist, but its probably better to make it that the Sonic Lance comes not from Invid technology, but fallen Robotech Masters technology. Basically a refinement of the Cosmic Harp idea, but applied to a weapon.

actually i was thinking the sonic lance could be human technology, just like in the old version. only the designer (perhaps one of the eggheads from the Japan based robotech research group?) got captured by the invid, and the invid were intrigued by the potential of sound based weapons. if for nothing else, they wanted to learn how to protect themselves from it. (though using focused sound to "stun" living things is something the invid might find useful.)

in any case, the lance should become a pure sonic weapon, just drop the silly keyboard part.

Ugh, I agree. Maybe make it a mecha-grade weapon that is supposed to replace the standard gun pod?

it would be hard for the researcher guy to lug around a mecha scale gunpod, i'd think. but a gunpod for cyclones would be easy enough to carry. and if the sonic lance is powerful enough, it would make a good weapon against invid mecha (most of which aren't quite as tough as an Alpha)

sorta like the Destabilizer from the robotech invasion game. a "super weapon" everyone would want, either for use or to study and duplicate large scale.

can someone point out the Episode the EBSIS is shown in? I know the Anti-U is mentioned in the Show, and is a focal point of some of the new comics. but i cant recall the Ebsis anywhere.
so why would the Anti-U which appears in the Show, and Comics.... be a sub commitiee of the EBSIS... something thats non-existant....

show me where in the RPG it says "though shalt always play Rick hunter if thou wishes to be a hero, and shall place blinders apon thy imagination"

the EBSS isn't mentioned in the show, there is enough vagueness and holes in the canon world information to allow such a group to exist.

and frankly, the RPG itself counts as secondary canon, it should be allowed to expand beyond the constraints of the "as seen on TV". if not, it is not a game worth playing.

and i was not saying the anti-UN is a sub-commitee of the EBSIS, but that the Anti-Un are many seperate grouops not unlike the many rebel groups, terrorist orgianizations, and nominal "freedom fighters" of today.

and that, like in the Cold war, the Soviets fund and back some of these groups to further their own end, in a delicate dance of proxy wars against an opponent that it cannot face directly without suffering grievious national harm.

and like the cold war, the UEG can't merely attack and get rid of them without becomeing the villans, and betraying the morals they claim to uphold. which would set spark to a powderkeg of resentment and anti-UN feeling, creating a problem greater than the one the EBSS propogates.
so the EUG funds and back Anti-soviet groups in EBSIS influenced terrirtories, participating in the delicate dance of proxy wars due lack of a better choice.

glitterboy2098 wrote:show me where in the RPG it says "though shalt always play Rick hunter if thou wishes to be a hero, and shall place blinders apon thy imagination"

if it says something dumb like that, i'd not play the RPG, hopefully KS leavs dumb remarks like that out.

the EBSS isn't mentioned in the show, there is enough vagueness and holes in the canon world information to allow such a group to exist.

Wait, a Group like the EBSIS does Exist... the Anti-Unification league.

the Old RPG is secondary Canon, the new RPG is based off the Show, and according to Alex, was picked over with a fine tooth comb to Ensure it Cleaves closly to the Show and Movie.

RCSF's Idea of the AUL replaceing the EBSIS is about the best way to hold on to old ideas... and keep closer to the Actual show.

except the Anti-Un, as set up in the canon by the comics, boils down to a bunch of guys running around yelling "COBRAA!" and blowing things up, while taking orders from black monoliths that represent a UEG 4th collum.

such anti-Un groups are worthless without an example of their success. if they always fail, you can't dangle them out as a threat to defend against. and if you let them continue to operate without making a full effort to wipe them out, your people lose their faith in their government to defend them.

plus, after the rain of death, when the EBSIS is formed, there isn't enough of a UEG presence to really stop them. those anti-UN sentiments will still exist, but there will be no one to stop those people from setting up their own nations.

if the remains of the UEG can't stop a bunch of zentreadi from going rogue, how will they stop humans in distant areas from declaring themselves independant?

and the existance of the EBSIS doesn't invalidate the Anti-UN. if anything, it confirms it. it's an example of Anti-UN winning. it creates a place where the Anti-UN can operate from freely (especially those that aren't just a UEG conspiracy).

I have it and I agree that it is for the most part cheese. It does have some redeeming features. These have also been mentioned and I'll not repeat them. But it can be a fun module to play. Just ignore the cheese.

glitterboy2098 wrote:except the Anti-Un, as set up in the canon by the comics, boils down to a bunch of guys running around yelling "COBRAA!" and blowing things up, while taking orders from black monoliths that represent a UEG 4th collum.

Actually, no. The AUL is large enough to have its own air force units, with their own distinctive markings. Like the UEG, the AUL likely reemerges from the Rain-of-Death as a stonger, if more politically fractious, entity. Personally, I liken it to a cross between the UN and The Warsaw Pact. You seem to not understand that we're simply exchanging one name for another.

The EBSIS gets renamed as the NMSR (Neo-Marxist Socialist Republic, from the novels/comics), The Merchant Republic of Argentina becomes the black market center of the world and the main economic might of the AUL, Manaus emerges as an AUL Zentraedi stronghold and so on and so forth.

Rawlin's People's Army (from the novels) gets shifted to Africa where his group goes rampaging, drawing peacekeepers from the UEG and AUL which devolves into a shooting war with the UEG and AUL just before the Masters arrive.

The Star Children is an AUL backed Space Colonization group. They also have ties to in-system AUL Space Pirates which prey on UEG-backed civilian shipping. They also help to maintain the NMSR's Space Station.

glitterboy2098 wrote: plus, after the rain of death, when the EBSIS is formed, there isn't enough of a UEG presence to really stop them. those anti-UN sentiments will still exist, but there will be no one to stop those people from setting up their own nations.

if the remains of the UEG can't stop a bunch of zentreadi from going rogue, how will they stop humans in distant areas from declaring themselves independant?

the AUL (not anti-UN, a Macross Zero group), could form a "nation" of sorts after the rain of death, but unfortunatly, by 2025, they are facing the UEG that can launch Hundreds of Capital Ships to defned the Earth. The Silly notion set by the Comics/novels/RPG the earth was uncontrolled, yet the UEG is sending a Expedition to a forgien system to fight the Masters is just silly. you dont go fighting across the universe, unless you have relative peace at home. the AUL could be nothig more then a relativly small group. Especially in the Masters Era...

what is the UEG going to do? start a war, invade, declare martial law? strip the people of the freedoms the UEG supposedly defends?
bombard the cities from orbit? making them just as bad as the zentreadi they're supposed to be defending earth from?
the EBSIS doesn't need to have a military equal to the UEG. they have the biggest advantage of them all. making the UEG's moral highground work against the UEG.

as for the colony thing. Spain, england, and france were all at war for control of europe in the 1500's through the 1800's, and that didn't stop spain from colonizing the america's, england from colonizing africa, asia, and austrialia, or france from colonizing canada and parts of asia.
in fact, the unrest at home was one of the main drives of the colonization efforts, since those colonies became new sources of resources and wealth used to fund ever increasing armies to fight those wars.


RCSF, i still disagree about your specifics, but now we're just arguring naming and orginization, and agree that that there can be non-UEG nations post-rain, so i think this is an debate better left for a later time.

glitterboy2098 wrote:what is the UEG going to do? start a war, invade, declare martial law? strip the people of the freedoms the UEG supposedly defends?

if your not part of the UEG, those rights dont extend to you.

bombard the cities from orbit? making them just as bad as the zentreadi they're supposed to be defending earth from?

the zents were defeated, and technically were no longer a threat by 2025. the UEG was focused on a War with the masters.

the EBSIS doesn't need to have a military equal to the UEG. they have the biggest advantage of them all. making the UEG's moral highground work against the UEG.

and with Leonard as the Supream Command, and Morand as the Prime Minster... that game isnt very useful.

as for the colony thing. Spain, england, and france were all at war for control of europe in the 1500's through the 1800's, and that didn't stop spain from colonizing the america's, england from colonizing africa, asia, and austrialia, or france from colonizing canada and parts of asia.

Making Colonies, and going to WAR are to very diffrent things, the REf would depend on some sort if Logistical line from home, and sending a fleet out to fight not knowing if home is truely safe was borderline Stupidity. The UEG has a firm defense on the earth until the Masters invaded. There is no mention of Rebellion or Seditious activity during the Masters war. and Frankly, Anyone in Opposition of the UeG would be nothing more than a minor annoyance, not a true threat as the EBSIS was portayred in the Old RPG.

in fact, the unrest at home was one of the main drives of the colonization efforts, since those colonies became new sources of resources and wealth used to fund ever increasing armies to fight those wars.

unrest at home had nothing to do with the Colonies, Gloval said humanity must spread to the stars if they hope to survive. nothgin about "omg, we need to escape the bad ebsis"

Colonel Wolfe wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:what is the UEG going to do? start a war, invade, declare martial law? strip the people of the freedoms the UEG supposedly defends?

if your not part of the UEG, those rights dont extend to you.

besides, if the UEG can decide that human rights don't apply to groups liek the EBSIS, whats to keep them from deciding it doesn't apply ot other groups? if the trucker's union starts complaining about the UEG worker's standards, whats to keep the UEG from declaring that the truckers aren't covered by UEG civil rights?

sure they do. what part of "human rights" wouldn't apply?
besides, once the EBSIS is conquered, the UEG would have to extend them those rights. only they can't, because, well, thats what caused the whole mess in the first place, the people executing their right to choose their own government. without that right, the UEG is a totalitarian regime no better than stalin or hitler.

bombard the cities from orbit? making them just as bad as the zentreadi they're supposed to be defending earth from?

the zents were defeated, and technically were no longer a threat by 2025. the UEG was focused on a War with the masters.

the UEG is supposed to defend earth, yes. can you do so by committing genocide on your own people?
destroying entire cities from orbit would be a warcrime. the same warcrime the zentreadi engaged in. it would be hard for the UEG to commit such acts without it's own people losing faith in their government and rising up in anti-Un demonstrations.

the cure being worse than the illness.

the EBSIS doesn't need to have a military equal to the UEG. they have the biggest advantage of them all. making the UEG's moral highground work against the UEG.

and with Leonard as the Supream Command, and Morand as the Prime Minster... that game isnt very useful.

sure it is if the EUG wants to keep it's people docile. any military action to put seperatist states back under the UEG will show the UEG to be an totalitarian regime, with little regard for life.

so unless the UEG wants to deal with increased anti-Un troubles, they'll stick to political routes of reintergration. which rarely work well.

as for the colony thing. Spain, england, and france were all at war for control of europe in the 1500's through the 1800's, and that didn't stop spain from colonizing the america's, england from colonizing africa, asia, and austrialia, or france from colonizing canada and parts of asia.

Making Colonies, and going to WAR are to very diffrent things, the REf would depend on some sort if Logistical line from home, and sending a fleet out to fight not knowing if home is truely safe was borderline Stupidity. The UEG has a firm defense on the earth until the Masters invaded. There is no mention of Rebellion or Seditious activity during the Masters war. and Frankly, Anyone in Opposition of the UeG would be nothing more than a minor annoyance, not a true threat as the EBSIS was portayred in the Old RPG.

history would argue otherwise.

if you read your history, the colonization of the new world and the globe was a series of wars against local peoples started on the part of the great empires, all amid great political and military upheaval at home.
these wars actually helped to create peace at home. they gave dissenting groups an outside enemy to fight, enabeling them to set aside thier differences to deal with a larger issue.

in fact, the unrest at home was one of the main drives of the colonization efforts, since those colonies became new sources of resources and wealth used to fund ever increasing armies to fight those wars.

unrest at home had nothing to do with the Colonies, Gloval said humanity must spread to the stars if they hope to survive. nothgin about "omg, we need to escape the bad ebsis"

gloval's statement was basically "we need to spread out so destroying one world doesn't make us extinct". dissention on earth is a big driver for that attitude. a colonization program will allow those who dislike the UEG to move somewhere else (look at the america's, we were founded by all the people who disliked living under english law), as well as giving a positive banner for the UEG to dangle in front of the many otherwise seperatist groups.

groups liek the EBSIS would see that as a good idea, but wouldn't want ot put themselves under the UEG's colonial thumb (again remembering history, after colonies are founded, the founding government always strives to take more and more control of said colony, to better exploit the wealth)

no matter what you say, the EBSIS wasnt i Robotech, where the AUL was. the AUL replacing the EBSIS in the RPG is a better Idea then adding something that cant be supported by the Show.
Plus, by the Invid Era/Post invid era, the Anti-U would be able to Muster plenty of seneiment against the REF/UEG, being the Rick Hunter's REF tried to kill everyone on the earth

I don't really think as many of the worlds people are going to complain about Rick as you think. There will be a large number who will, but more people will be happy to have their freedom back from the Invid. That is my take on this discussion.

The AUL doens't need to replace the EBSIS just like the EBSIS didn't replace the AUL in the origional RPG.

The EBSIS was introduced as an "Anti-Unification Power" not as "The Anti-Unification Power" or as "The One and Only Anti-Unification Power."

Further the EBSIS oftens upported Anti-Unification groups world wide wih intellegence, matierial and manpower.

The EBSIS is the biggest, most powerful independant barony, but is far from the only one. It is not unreasonable to think that these independants had their own alliance (especially since the EBSIS was actively persuing this goal). This alliance would have been the AUL.

The big thing is the AUL is never mentioned by name in the RPG while the EBSIS, the core of any possible AUL is.

Aramanthus wrote:I don't really think as many of the worlds people are going to complain about Rick as you think. There will be a large number who will, but more people will be happy to have their freedom back from the Invid. That is my take on this discussion.

Sorry, but watch the show again. Most people were hostile to the REF for stirring up the Invid. To say that Hunter's decision would not be opposed by his victims is absurd to say the least.

For the immediate period once they think about it after a period of time. They will be grateful for their freedom. But that is my opinion.

Aramanthus wrote:For the immediate period once they think about it after a period of time. They will be grateful for their freedom. But that is my opinion.

Again, watch the show. People generally hated the REF more than they did the Invid. At least with the Invid they were living, if somewhat in fear. That is a world of difference from not living at all. NO ONE on the Earth, who was going to be reduced to their base atomic structure, is going to thank Rick Hunter.

Aramanthus wrote:I don't really think as many of the worlds people are going to complain about Rick as you think. There will be a large number who will, but more people will be happy to have their freedom back from the Invid. That is my take on this discussion.

Realy? did you see how "happy" people were to see Scott Bernard? They tried to feed him to the Lions.. I mean invid...
people will be happy the invid are gone, but people will be upset once they find out the REf tried to use WMD's... well, WPD's (Weapons of Planetary Destruction) on the earth to "Liberate" it form the Invid.

Jefffar wrote:The big thing is the AUL is never mentioned by name in the RPG while the EBSIS, the core of any possible AUL is.

I Just sum that up to another Error of the Old RPG.

Yes, that was immediately after those attacks. Give it some time and people will still prefer to be free then under the Invid's control. Those people are probably suffering "Stockholm Syndrome." The ones who were not under the Invid's direct control weren't anywhere as upset. This is my own opinion, just like you have your right to your own opinion. I personnally see most of the world waking up and realizing how much better they are being free than under the control of an oppressor.