Better ways to travel?

[Carl Gleba]

I've never used any kind of gate system, but most of my games have concentrated around a local "sector". If the group does traverse long distances I usually say... "after x weeks of travel you arrive..." Its never been an issue for me, but I find creative ways around stuff. Worm holes, warp gates, rifts, gravity accelerators and so on if I need them to get places quick.

As for commerce I see that as more of a local thing. Several systems will trade among each other and then that's probably limited to within specific power blocs.

Carl

[Aramanthus]

My group flies about the galactic eliptic, which puts them into intergalactic space. Which means they travel far faster up there.

[KLM]

This, to me, presents some problems. Leaving aside the whole issue of transporting goods (especially perishables) over long distances, or passenger liners carrying vacationers, diplomats, & other politicians around the galaxies, you have the whole problem of never being able to concentrate your fleet within a reasonable amount of time.
(...)
Thoughts?

In this regard, the Three Galaxies - IMO, of course - function more like
our Earth in the Age of Sail, maybe at the beginning of the XIXth century.

First, people just DONT travel around - I mean, if you want to have
a vacation in Spain or Italy (and you are from Britain), it is fine.

But having a vacation in Australia or China is out of question, except
your definition of vacation covers a few years.

As for fleets: the powers, that have influence over large area (or
at least several, separate areas) have to maintain fleets on each and
every "pocket" of space they claim.

And if Port Arthur is under siege...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Japa ... ltic_Fleet

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

In this regard, the Three Galaxies - IMO, of course - function more like
our Earth in the Age of Sail, maybe at the beginning of the XIXth century.

This is EXACTLY right. The vast distances between them means that the Anvil, the Thundercloud, and the Corkscrew each, over time, take on very different "personalities" (the Anvil is full of religious zealots and fundamentalists, the Thundercloud is Africa in space with lasers, and the Corkscrew is a bizarre combination of Edwardian and Cold War-era Europe).

Travelling from one to the other is like circumnavigating the globe with Magellan... its a worthy endeavor that takes forever.

Having said that, the United Worlds of Warlock has exactly what you are looking for. Each of there major worlds is linked together by an elaborate system of pyramids and rifts in what is called the Celestial Skein. Further details will appear in Fleets of the Three Galaxies (due out this year, so they tell me).

[DhAkael]

So what I was wondering is... has anyone adapted the gate systems from AU:GG for Phase World? I'm not sure I necessarily like the idea of a gate being able to transit instantly to any plotted point in the galaxy/galactic cluster (they have it limited to the Milky Way Galaxy, but only because no one's been to Andromeda yet), but I could see a gate system set up that could have selected points plotted out. Each gate would hold coordinates for, say, 10 other destinations, & would have a certain number of activations per hour (either total or per destination, & can either be fixed or dependent on the mass of the ships traveling through). They could either be set to transit to a particular point in space, or have the exit point be another linked gate, & would be placed far enough apart (at least 1,000 LY, possibly 10,000 LY or more) that the travel advantage would outweigh any inconvenience (i.e. having to wait in the queue for your turn).

It could even be possible that the gates (or a similar system) could be used to boost FTL transmissions. Signals would instantaneously be transmitted from 1 gate/terminal to another, & then either transit to the next gate/terminal or be rebroadcast "in the ether" at the standard 200 LY/hour. Again, it would be used for very-long-range transmissions, as opposed to "oh, we're in the local star cluster neighborhood".

Thoughts?

Hypergravitics baybay!
They work...only problem is, finding the free-floating gravity-wells (can't do point-to-point unless you know BOTH points), which is why the CCW keeps sending out explorer ships with advanced sensor systems.
Also, it isn't INSTANT. One has to plot calculations, taking anywhere from one round / 15 seconds, to nearly an hour. THEN the fun part happens, where the ship has to approach the gravity-well at at LEAST 1.1c; plenty of time for enterprising pirates and other evel nasty-dudes to blast you to powder.

-ahem- oh..and did I mention space mines on the "closed" systems (Like the TGE and say...Golgan Republik?) surrounding the jump-points?

In my campaign, Hypergravitic travel has JUST started to come into the market, but the jump-points are few and far between so far... and only a couple of gubermints have developed actual GATES (and then usualy only as a single bridge route).

If one want's to be really darring and traverse the Tri-gal cluster in a hurry... one can always singularity dive, as described in the 'Anvil Galaxy' book by bill coffin
Go on.
You KNOW you want to

[DhAkael]

In this regard, the Three Galaxies - IMO, of course - function more like
our Earth in the Age of Sail, maybe at the beginning of the XIXth century.

This is EXACTLY right. The vast distances between them means that the Anvil, the Thundercloud, and the Corkscrew each, over time, take on very different "personalities" (the Anvil is full of religious zealots and fundamentalists, the Thundercloud is Africa in space with lasers, and the Corkscrew is a bizarre combination of Edwardian and Cold War-era Europe).

Travelling from one to the other is like circumnavigating the globe with Magellan... its a worthy endeavor that takes forever.

Having said that, the United Worlds of Warlock has exactly what you are looking for. Each of there major worlds is linked together by an elaborate system of pyramids and rifts in what is called the Celestial Skein. Further details will appear in Fleets of the Three Galaxies (due out this year, so they tell me).

Cool.. yet another possible plot thread I can incoperate.

[taalismn]

Wormhole gates automatically become campaign hotspots and strategic chokepoints...feel free to use 'em to facilitate travel and foment galactic crsisises...

[Aramanthus]

Awesome ideas guys! I hope they keep coming! Sounds like multiple ways to add to the methods of travel in the Three Galaxies area! I like the idea of the "Skein" Braden! Another teaser!

[Rallan]

This, to me, presents some problems. Leaving aside the whole issue of transporting goods (especially perishables) over long distances, or passenger liners carrying vacationers, diplomats, & other politicians around the galaxies, you have the whole problem of never being able to concentrate your fleet within a reasonable amount of time. Just to be able to respond within a week's time, your ship can't be any more than 1,680 LY away (7 days travel)... and the ships most likely to be available (destroyers & frigates) are too slow for even that (4 LY/hour = 672 LY/week). Heaven help you if you have to bring ships in from the other side of the same galaxy, let alone farther out.

Which is why I've always argued that a no-holds barred war between the CCW and TGE will be a massive scorched-earth war of attrition where humungous armadas systematically trash enemy systems one by one with impunity.

[glitterboy2098]

This, to me, presents some problems. Leaving aside the whole issue of transporting goods (especially perishables) over long distances, or passenger liners carrying vacationers, diplomats, & other politicians around the galaxies, you have the whole problem of never being able to concentrate your fleet within a reasonable amount of time. Just to be able to respond within a week's time, your ship can't be any more than 1,680 LY away (7 days travel)... and the ships most likely to be available (destroyers & frigates) are too slow for even that (4 LY/hour = 672 LY/week). Heaven help you if you have to bring ships in from the other side of the same galaxy, let alone farther out.

sounds like typical colonial/global warfare prior to modern times.

for example, check out the Russo-Japanese war, a good example of the problems of getting a fleet from one posting ot another halfway across your empire. the japanese slaughtered the russian pacific fleet, and the baltic fleet took nearly a year to sail around europe, africa, india, and up the china coast. only to get beat to a pulp due to a lack of regular onboard drills to keep the men up to spec.

on the otherhand, look at WW2. the united states navy managed to fight a war in two oceans. instead of trying to sail one fleet halfway around the world, they built tons of ships for that theatre alone, and the two rarely intermixed. before that, england managed ot build a huge empire spanning the world, and defend it fairly consistantly. they did so by ensuring every colony had it's defensive forces, not just from the british isles but native troops and new shipyards to put out more ships in vital areas.

that is the kind of solution the phase world powers deal with. each galaxy would be it's own operational region, and each divided up into sub-regions. ships in the thundercloud won't often show up in the anvil, or vise versa. ships in the thundercloud generally were built in the thundercloud, specifically to service/protect the worlds in the thundercloud.

[Braden Campbell]

Which is why I've always argued that a no-holds barred war between the CCW and TGE will be a massive scorched-earth war of attrition where humungous armadas systematically trash enemy systems one by one with impunity.

It will be the end of the everything, and the dawn of a new Interim (read. Dark Age). None of the current power blocs, save Phase World, will remain standing.

The fear of such a Second Great War taking place is akin to the 1980's when we were all certain that World War III would turn the earth into a cinder. The theories of Deterance and Mutually Assured Destruction are alive and well in the Three Galaxies...

[Aramanthus]

I'm planning on running it as a cold war situation. One with the threat hanging over everyones head. But it prpbably might not actually happen.

[9voltkilowatt]

Which is why I've always argued that a no-holds barred war between the CCW and TGE will be a massive scorched-earth war of attrition where humungous armadas systematically trash enemy systems one by one with impunity.

It will be the end of the everything, and the dawn of a new Interim (read. Dark Age). None of the current power blocs, save Phase World, will remain standing.

The fear of such a Second Great War taking place is akin to the 1980's when we were all certain that World War III would turn the earth into a cinder. The theories of Deterance and Mutually Assured Destruction are alive and well in the Three Galaxies...

..atleast until the Demon Fleets set sail in the infinite black seas of space, then theres no telling just who the various power blocks will be willing to jump into bed with.

[Aramanthus]

The entry of the demon fleets into the Three Galaxies might actually get enemies to work together to help destroy the imminent threat! I can't wait until that book gets to us from PB and CG!

[KLM]

..atleast until the Demon Fleets set sail in the infinite black seas of space, then theres no telling just who the various power blocks will be willing to jump into bed with.

THAT might trigger interesting results. For example it even can force the core powers out of their
separation.

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

I agree KLM! I believe it will bring them together for the duration of the Minion war! Who knows how it'll effect them after it. We'll have to see!

[Rallan]

Which is why I've always argued that a no-holds barred war between the CCW and TGE will be a massive scorched-earth war of attrition where humungous armadas systematically trash enemy systems one by one with impunity.

It will be the end of the everything, and the dawn of a new Interim (read. Dark Age). None of the current power blocs, save Phase World, will remain standing.

The fear of such a Second Great War taking place is akin to the 1980's when we were all certain that World War III would turn the earth into a cinder. The theories of Deterance and Mutually Assured Destruction are alive and well in the Three Galaxies...

It'd be less mutually assured destruction in the WWIII sense, and more the knowledge that a total war would be a long, destructive, economically crippling fight even for the winner. Neither side can defend themselves effectively against humungous armadas. Neither side can knock out the enemy's capacity to wage war quickly. Both of them would just have to unleash their fleets to rampage across enemy space, systematically destroying worlds system by system, and hoping they can bring about the complete social and economic collapse of the other guy before it happens to them. And in the meanwhile they both leave themselves wide open to the zillion and one other threats lurking in the Phase World universe, and have to worry about rebel factions taking advantage of the situation to try and declare independence.

[Aramanthus]

What you said Rallan will work with the last few statements. It just adds to the wealth of information. How do you plan on running it?

[Rallan]

What you said Rallan will work with the last few statements. It just adds to the wealth of information. How do you plan on running it?

That's simple. I don't

Phase World just isn't my cup of tea.

[Aramanthus]

I really feel that the gates would be able to handle any sized ships. Sort of like the gate system in Babylon 5. The gates would seperate further to allow large capital warships through. Although the rest of your working system looks pretty cool.

[livewire]

i am currently running a phase world campaign and i also thought that travel was a bit to slow esp. as my group are basically operating as runners i decided to change one word in the text to make travel a little faster. where is says "FTL is multiplied by x between galaxies" i changed galaxies to solar systems and use three different speed systems much like star trek. you have warp aka the super high FTL speeds outside of a solar system. impulse aka the slower FTL speeds that are used in system. thrusters which are your mach speeds at which most combat takes place. now i don't use the star trek terms or any of that malarkey but that is where i got the basic idea and am using here to illustrate what i am doing,this is not any type of conversion

[Aramanthus]

Sounds cool! I hope it works for your game! I'm going to continue to use the basic standard Three Galaxies! I haven't had that much trouble getting my group traveling point a to point b. Just speed things along with encounter checks. That way they can travel to vast points in the galaxy.

[Rallan]

A gate system is very likely given the high tech level of phase world . I have not read my phase world stuff for a while . Here are a few ideas off the top of my head .

According to canon, that's out. The big gates in orbit above Phase World (which any ship anywhere in the universe can instantly warp to as long as its got the right phase-tech equipment installed) seem to be unique in the Three Galaxies, and the ability to travel there instantly is a large part of the reason why Phase World is a centre of commerce. Apparently the only other instant long-range travel options you've got all use magic.

[Aramanthus]

The thing is about those gates the way they are written is that they are one way. And then the ships that use that method have to take the long way home after getting there.

[Rallan]

The thing is about those gates the way they are written is that they are one way. And then the ships that use that method have to take the long way home after getting there.

And yet despite that limitation, they're still enough to help secure Phase World's place as the hub of trade in the Three Galaxies. That sorta kinda implies that there aren't any better options available

[KLM]

And as Center is an extradimensional hub, with many-many rifts, plus it is CENTER, one
can easily find a magic user, who can send him home. Reliably...

Also, probably the Prometheans are also able to do this.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

I believe now that RUE has come out, that a Shifter (or any
mage that can open a Dimensional Portal) can Rift between
points in the same dimension.

Actually, they could even back in the days of RMB too

Erin Tarn can prove it (of course, they had a
little detour to Wormwood).

Adios
KLM

[Rallan]

And the best thing about using Rifts for long-range travel in the Three Galaxies is that since the magic works exactly like it does on Rifts Earth, you don't even need to be at a ley line nexus point. All you need is

One (1) Shifter who can make a rift

approx Five Hundred (500) live fish

One (1) woodchipper

Voila, enough PPE via blood sacrifice to open a rift from anywhere in the Three Galaxies to anywhere else in the Three Galaxies

[KLM]

Probably not.

Otherwise the Rift-drive makes no sense in its current form.

But of course, certainly enough for spanning a few (dosen) light years.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Yeah, the UWW is also mentioned to be able to cross the
treshold without much trouble, but how thick is the Treshold?

Adios
KLM

[Rallan]

Probably not.

Otherwise the Rift-drive makes no sense in its current form.

But of course, certainly enough for spanning a few (dosen) light years.

Adios
KLM

Presumably the reason Rift Drives have a limited range is because whatever the dwarves did to make the drive safe and stable (you wouldn't want to accidentally rift into Hades or the heart of a sun, or have a ley line storm explode into your engine room) came with a trade-off in terms of range.

That, and Carella figured that having a civilization who could instantly travel anywhere in the Three Galaxies would be a bit unbalancing

[gaby]

Well ther can be a speed limited by what Power source that is being used.
Like for example M/AM powered ship will be faster then a Fuison one.

[Aramanthus]

Those are some interesting ideas on the shifter. I've never actually run one. I need to reread the OCC again. Thank you for pointing that little kernal out there KLM and Gadrin. It makes for some very fun ideas to use!

[KLM]

Probably not.

Otherwise the Rift-drive makes no sense in its current form.

But of course, certainly enough for spanning a few (dosen) light years.

Adios
KLM

Presumably the reason Rift Drives have a limited range is because whatever the dwarves did to make the drive safe and stable (you wouldn't want to accidentally rift into Hades or the heart of a sun, or have a ley line storm explode into your engine room) came with a trade-off in terms of range.

That, and Carella figured that having a civilization who could instantly travel anywhere in the Three Galaxies would be a bit unbalancing

Which puts us back to my assumption: ley-line phasing and rifting is also limited in range, not
just Rift-drives.

One last question: what about the intergalactic "void" between two galaxies (from the 3)?
We know, that CG and phase drives work better. What about magic? What about Cosmo Knights?

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

I remember the little tidbit you're referring too. It said something about the CG drives being something like 100 times faster in the void. I think Cosmo Knights would be given a similiar multiplier for the void. As for Rift's drive, hmmmm given a 100 times multiple for their distance when jumping would keep things sort of balanced in my books.

[Aramanthus]

That is good to know! Thank you Gadrin! I'm always looking for ideas that might have slipped past me. I think I have a new NPC for my own game. Again Thank you for the idea proding. I need it!