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I think is a Cosmo Knight is cut and someone grows a clone from the blood
spilled...

...well, he will have a normal human, without any abilities from the Forge.

In another words: it's cosmic energy, which makes a CK (whatever cosmic
energy might be), the old dual spiral of atoms has nothing to do with it.

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But if a fallen knight ends in such a laboratory, he can suddenly have
a few more appendages or whatever...

Adios
KLM

duck-foot wrote:so you think that could happen. a gene splicer starts to screw around on cosmo-knight genes creating a frieghting monstousity. i ask because if possible i plan on doing it. if not to a cosmo-knight then a fallen one.

Ask some if this is possible, they will say no.
Ask why and, beyond 'Because it's supernatural', there is not really much of an answer.

Should it be easy? Hell no! Nothing in Rifts should be easy.
Should it be attainable? Oh, hell yeah! Otherwise, nothing in Rifts should be worth playing.

Chad wrote: Ask why and, beyond 'Because it's supernatural', there is not really much of an answer.

Well, let me detail that part.

Genetics has much to do with a character. Phisical, mental abilities
and even psionic potential are all included - so a Gene-splicer can
mess with these.

Then there are the outside "influences". Training, cybernetic or
bionic implants, the pacts of a witch or a shifter, priesthood and
finally becoming the extension of the Forge.

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On the other hand, the 3galaxies (or even the megaverse)
has some "built in plots", like noone can knock off a phase device,
noone should be able to create a rune item, noone can turn
the CS into a politically correct utopia (or a smoking crater) etc.

Those plots exist as the skeleton of the setting. Remove them
and all what is built on them, collapses.

On the other hand, it should be interesting to do.

Adios
KLM

Well, let me detail that part.

Genetics has much to do with a character. Phisical, mental abilities
and even psionic potential are all included - so a Gene-splicer can
mess with these.

Then there are the outside "influences". Training, cybernetic or
bionic implants, the pacts of a witch or a shifter, priesthood and
finally becoming the extension of the Forge.

Training, mental control, and bionic implants with out the need of bionics are well with in the limits of the Gene-Splicers.
'course never heard of anyone making a supernatural pact with them.

-----------
On the other hand, the 3galaxies (or even the megaverse)
has some "built in plots", like noone can knock off a phase device,

Why not? Inix did.
should it be possible? yeah. just don't think that 2nd stage Prometheans, Naruni Enterprises, or others will not be coming after you.

noone should be able to create a rune item,

Hey, again, the Splugorth having one's name on their most wanted list is one's own bussiness entirely.

noone can turn
the CS into a politically correct utopia (or a smoking crater) etc.

No, but one can attempt- and become a legend trying.

Those plots exist as the skeleton of the setting. Remove them
and all what is built on them, collapses.

On the other hand, it should be interesting to do.

Adios

[/quote]

yeah, that's where we differ.
I've always looked at it as a beginning. A starting point, so to speak, of which to sow the seeds of a nightmarish, deranged, and paradoxical setting, the likes of which not dare imagined by the faint of heart. For only to speak of such a realm would lead one to suicide and...
I'm getting a little carried away, but, err, you see my point.

I hope.
Later.

The way I've always looked at is that it is sort of like Galactus creating Silver Surfer. Unless he spends the energy to create the surfer the best your going to see is a top of the line super. The forge takes a normal person and recreates him using it's energy. So the best any genetics could do is to create a powerful super, but no real match for the Cosmo Knight. But that is just my take on it.

Glad to be of help!

I've always viewed CS as witches in service to the Cosmic Forge. TO the extent they are recreated I think the fallen knight is the natural form of the CK.. I always figured in order to surive whatever the CF does to the being it needs to be made as strong as a fallen knight. So as long as the CK obeys the CF's bidding by folowing the visions and otherwise helping the CF fulfill its agenda the Cosmo Knight keeps his pact. THe minute he objects to this arrangment power is gone and the Cosmic forge like any onther AI takes away the power. Considering the fallen knights are so well known keeping them alive as a object lesson is effective in keeping the opther to tow the party line


since I'm here can fallen knight get magic tattos.

I agree everyone has expressed some very interesting ideas on the topic! I'm glad to see the variety.

a thought though. what if the gene-splicers found the cosmic gene (the gene the forge looks for in people to turn into cosmo-knights) and started to replicate it into there monsters. they would have an army of monster-knights

scary thought. Of course, everything about a gene-splicer freaks me out.
if they found the gene, or whatever, wonder if every fallen knight, dark god, etc. would be taking a number and lining up outside their front doorstep?

csbioborg wrote:I've always viewed CS as witches in service to the Cosmic Forge. TO the extent they are recreated I think the fallen knight is the natural form of the CK.. I always figured in order to surive whatever the CF does to the being it needs to be made as strong as a fallen knight. So as long as the CK obeys the CF's bidding by folowing the visions and otherwise helping the CF fulfill its agenda the Cosmo Knight keeps his pact. THe minute he objects to this arrangment power is gone and the Cosmic forge like any onther AI takes away the power. Considering the fallen knights are so well known keeping them alive as a object lesson is effective in keeping the opther to tow the party line.

Use to look at it the same way. Then heard someone point out that witches don't usually come out for the better after breaking a pact. Fallen Knights don't have the power they use to, still, MDC, SU/PS and PE, more PPE than they know what to do with, immortal (debatable, yes I know...), half damage from energy- this sounds like a pact that witches sign up for in the first place.

since I'm here can fallen knight get magic tattos

Came out in canon- probably not.
IMO- as long as they are human, elf, or ogre (ogre fallen knight )/ sure, I could see it. Since the tattoos are tied to their PPE, I don't see them learning spell magic or psionics through.

I think that since the forge is benovolant makes the huge difference between Cosmo Knights and witches. Unless the witch is the recipient of something noble I think she is doomed! Where as a CK isn't. They might become a fallen knight, but they can always redeem themselves to the forge.

One of my more munchkin players suggested a Biotic from Splicers getting made into a cosmo-knight.

Maybe and maybe the forge would soup up the regular cosmo knights to allow them to battle those sort of creatures. And a sploogie with the additional powers of a CK would be really terrifying!

LostOne wrote:One of my more munchkin players suggested a Biotic from Splicers getting made into a cosmo-knight.

I'm not familiar with Splicers- what's a Biotic?

Chad wrote:

LostOne wrote:One of my more munchkin players suggested a Biotic from Splicers getting made into a cosmo-knight.

I'm not familiar with Splicers- what's a Biotic?

The Splicers equivalent of full-conversion cyborgs with M.O.M. implants to boot. Splicers use living tech, they have living power armors, etc. The Biotics get some of the features of the living power armors (Host Armor) and also gain insanities over time. But made with good enhancement selections, they're pretty friggin powerful.

Yes, they are very powerful. Same with the monster hunters from South America 1. There are a lot of powerful OCCs and RCCs. You just need to look for them.

duck-foot wrote:ya maybe. but, still a whole galatic wide evil cosmo vs good cosmo knight war. i can just imagine the munchknism of it.

But really, making a splugorth a cosmo-knight is a waste of time. If anything the transformation will lessen the splugorth. Remember stats get rerolled, MDC rerolled.

That is true. But I was thinking if they could artificially augment the sploogie. Not having it convert to the forces of the forge.

Which would make that augmented Sploogie pretty scary!

Ewwwww~ Ok! Now that is a scary thought. I think for something like that the Forge would create an up graded Ck to deal with the problem.

Challenge! That is one monster of a challenge! Sounds like a job for some heros!

A CK of purist heart and soul would probably have to track the forge down and lay his life down to restore the forge to it's perfection. Just my thought on it. Of course I might add to this later on after I think on it more.

But if the forge turned evil, wouldn't it either:

• Exert its will on the CKs and turn them evil.
• "Rebuild" the existing CKs so they are evil, basically wipe their morals and implant evil thoughts.
• Strip the existing CKs of their powers, forcing them into Fallen Cosmoknight status, and recruit evil minded individuals that fit the Forge's new mindset.

???

I'm still working on some very controverseal experimental CKs. I've laid out a history for both of them and I have yet to put pencil to paper to create them. Although they'd be extremely vicious as CKs.

I will when I actually create them. Still working some thoughts on them. I've been working on thoughts about them for almost a year.

I know. But I'm going thru a time in RL which has rendered my muse mute. Everynow and then something causes it to return, but it hasn't been long enough. Hopefully soon certain things will turn around.

Thanks for the vote of support Duck-foot!

For these characters I've been working on a very indepth history. I haven't rolled dice on either of them. Even though they are two seperate dpecies I see them as close as brothers. They'd be a very tough pair. watching each others back.

Just a sec. The notes are accross the room. They are a pad of notepaper. The thing is I'd love to make the sperm whale the size of the older larger sperm whales. You see during the time we harvested them we took the biggest of the males. At one time it is believed that the sperm whales could reach between 80 and 90 feet and weigh in at over 120 tons. Nowadays a male sperm whale can barely reaches over 60 feet long and around 88 tons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_whale So I'm planning on making the bull sperm whale CK a max size for species and weight. His name is Erwin. His best friend is Artemis. Artie is a is a max sized killer whale. Now normally the two species would be at each others throats. But because of the LotD they allied themselves together and fought back. Bull killer whales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca.

I have a lot more storyline for the two! But that is all I've gotten done is storyline. And I made a mistake......Artemis Holmes is the Sprem Whales and Erwin Watson is the Killer Whale. Sorry, I looked it wrong. I reread my notes later on and realized I had the names backwards.

I'm working on it. Maybe this weekend I'll take my books home and generate them on Sunday. No plans at this time.

I just have to take the appropriate books home this weekend. And of course my notes.

I have stats.

Artemis Holmes
Sperm whale /cosmo knight
IQ - 16
ME - 21
MA - 19
PS - 50
PP - 17
PE - 24
PB - 15
SPD - 50
MDC - 280
PPE - 600
Length - 90 feet long
Height as Human - 7 feet
Weight as Whale - 130 tons
Weight as Human - 285LBS

Erwin Watson
Killer Whale/ Cosmo Knight
IQ - 15
MA - 20
MA - 18
PS - 50
PP - 21
PE - 24
PB - 19
SPD - 70
MDC - 270
PPE - 500
Length - 40 feet
Height as human - 6.5 feet tall
Weight as Whale - 7 tons
Weight as human - 250LBS

I'm still working on some things.

I was wondering when people saw that I named them after Holmes and Watson. I've still have to finish their skills, but at least the basic stats are here.

Bump! This is the one I'm talking about PrinceDarkStorm!

LostOne wrote:One of my more munchkin players suggested a Biotic from Splicers getting made into a cosmo-knight.

Sucks the Biotic would lose all the Bio-tech upgrades however.

Of course each GM can define what they want to run in their games. If they choose to go off canon that is their choice.

See it still falls to each GM as to what they allow in their games.

But in creating that sort of creature the Cosmic forge would dispatch any nearby CKs to take care of that problem. As for tech, they might be able to create super soldiers, but no where near as tough as a CK.

Of course they can, I'm running a game based on it.

Sure it started out with 4, now there is only 1 keeping the mission alive- but he's getting close.

Very interesting Chad. Keep us posted. I'd like to hear what happens in your game!