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Okay I have been really wondering here. Is Hades and Dyval while we are at it MDC universes or SDC universes. Hades is supposed to be a mirror of the PF setting to some degree. We know PF adventurers occasionally go there through that rift. On the other hand the stats in Hades are MDC first then SDC is a second thought. However the stas for the Deon Lord were all SDC in Dragon nd Gods.

So if a PF adventurs goes through the rift those that balrog they are chasing all of a sudden a unbgeatable MD creature.

If that were the case you would think there should be some talk about the pskcloigical affect of going to these SDC world for creatures that are normally MDC. Wouldn't they suffer from phobis considering how vunerable they are now. THey might be immortal but Hades mades the rebirthing process leaving them vunerable and is very painful.

If the reverse is true wouldn't a band of CS troops have a field day in Hades. Lazlo not so much since all thier magic would become SD

Help me on this puzzel I have been trying to unravel.

Gleiba most espeically but anybody's comments would be appreicated

anybody this has been bugging me for a while

As far as I am concerned it is an MDC world. Check out the conversion book, it handles things for what happens when people from PF end up in an MDC world. I believen their magic armor and weapons readjust for the circumstances.

which one?

I know the original one had it in there. And that one is SDC to MDC conversions. And the Revised Conversion is MDC to SDC.

I will be playing hades and Dyval as SCD worlds. Remember from the megaverse builder that MDC doesn't work on SDC worlds (dont have a page number at the moment) MDC stats are given for the Deamons and Devils because they are supernatural and become MDC on MD worlds.

M.D.C. should be included in all palladium books towards powerful creatures like Gods, Night Lords and supernatural intelligence. Bank vaults, tanks, battleships and fortresses. The damage from rail guns, rocket launchers and some powerful flamethrowers should do M.D. too, because of the damage difference between a punch, using knife or hand guns. Theirs noway a nuclear explosion would not count as M.D. I do see how this would not be perfect since people have a small chance of surviving a mortar shell or a flamethrower attack, but when you thing of how frail a human body really is in the big scheme of it all M.D. damage makes sense in a S.D.C. world.

that was the orginal understanding in Robotech a dragon would have 1/3 of his MDC while tech would stay the same.

Both M.D.C. and S.D.C. stats have been included in the Hades book. That includes, creatures, demons, and damage from the environment. This should give GM's the flexibilty to use what is best for them. In the dimension description being a low magic dimension it is an S.D.C. dimension.

Now that being said I as a GM do whats easiest for me! Yes its all about me

My current Rifts group went to Hades. 3 out of the four were M.D.C. Lets see we have a Royal Frilled Hatchling, two demi-gods and a bunny type character from ATB. For this group instead of having the players convert their characters and gear to S.D.C. I just ran it as M.D.C. with the M.D. stats in the book. It worked out just fine and the players challenged. This is the group that started the Minion War.

If you have any more questions csbioborg let me know.

Carl

thank you for the response

If you did make it a SDC enviroment how would you rule on tech weapons and armor from rifts?

Thank you for your response Carl. I remember you mentioning your group started that little skirmish! I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of your books soon enough.

csbioborg wrote:that was the orginal understanding in Robotech a dragon would have 1/3 of his MDC while tech would stay the same.

I think that would work pretty good for most games. Palladium Fantasy might as well make gods, Dragons and Elementals M.D.C. creatures after the second edition gave them thousands of S.D.C. & hit points from having few hundred hit points with no S.D.C. in the first edition. I the first edition the Old Ones had 40,000 to 80,000 hit points now if they has stats it would be in the millions.

Carl Gleba wrote:Both M.D.C. and S.D.C. stats have been included in the Hades book. That includes, creatures, demons, and damage from the environment. This should give GM's the flexibilty to use what is best for them. In the dimension description being a low magic dimension it is an S.D.C. dimension.

Now that being said I as a GM do whats easiest for me! Yes its all about me

My current Rifts group went to Hades. 3 out of the four were M.D.C. Lets see we have a Royal Frilled Hatchling, two demi-gods and a bunny type character from ATB. For this group instead of having the players convert their characters and gear to S.D.C. I just ran it as M.D.C. with the M.D. stats in the book. It worked out just fine and the players challenged. This is the group that started the Minion War.

If you have any more questions csbioborg let me know.

Carl

My mercenary company was sent by Odin into Hades to retrieve a stolen time control device (Balder's Key) from a powerful Demon Queen Nesper and her Night Lord husband Asa. Our squad consist of a Achilles Neo Human, a Outrider with a Draco, a Glitter Girl, a Monster Hunter, a True Atlantean Shifter with her 3 demon minions. Marhera 7th level Raksasha, Waldron 8th level Shen Wu and Higgins Demon cat familiar. We had a Galapagos Submersible Robot, 1 Sky Hawk Glitter Boy Transport with a dozen Glitter boys, 2 Mastodon Battle Robot, 1 NE-R2000 Reaper, 2 Aggressor Mark II Hover Assault IFV and 5 NE-JE Juggernaut Heavy Hover Tanks. We took some heavy losses and when do end up going back into Hades were going to bring some real heavy fire power next time. We never even made it to Nesper's citadel and the repair bill was over 600 million credits. Odin then resurrected only three of the twenty troops that had died in Hades and said because we didn't get the job done he wasn't paying the repair bill and we have to hurry and get the key or the rest of our troops won't be resurrected either. Turns out Odin is not such a nice god after all.

csbioborg wrote:thank you for the response

If you did make it a SDC enviroment how would you rule on tech weapons and armor from rifts?

I'd reduce the damage by 20%. So 1D6x10 to 1D4x10, and so on. As for armor I'd double the M.D.C. and take that number as the S.D.C. value. A.R. will vary. Light armors might have an A.R. of 14 or 15 and they should go up from there. This is why I run it as straight M.D. It becomes an accounting nightmare for the G.M. and the players IMO.

Carl

runebeo wrote:My mercenary company was sent by Odin into Hades to retrieve a stolen time control device (Balder's Key) from a powerful Demon Queen Nesper and her Night Lord husband Asa. Our squad consist of a Acilles Neo Human, a Outrider with a Draco, a Glitter Girl, a Monster Hunter, a True Atlantean Shifter with her 3 demon minions. Marhera 7th level Raksasha, Waldron 8th level Shen Wu and Higgins Demon cat familiar. We had a Galapagos Submersible Robot, 1 Sky Hawk Glitter Boy Transport with a dozen Glitter boys, 2 Mastodon Battle Robot, 1 NE-R2000 Reaper, 2 Aggressor Mark II Hover Assault IFV and 5 NE-JE Juggernaut Heavy Hover Tanks. We took some heavy losses and when do end up going back into Hades were going to bring some real heavy fire power next time. We never even made it to Nesper's citadel and the repair bill was over 600 million credits. Odin then resurrected only three of the twenty troops that had died in Hades and said because we didn't get the job done he wasn't paying the repair bill and we have to hurry and get the key or the rest of our troops won't be resurrected either. Turns out Odin is not such a nice god after all.

That's a pretty agressive tactic to pull on their home turf. Now a small group disguised as slaves or other supernatural beings will be able to pass a little easier. My group pretty much left all the tech on Phase World. Hopped rides with caravans and had a good (not good aligned, just good at his job) demon guide. If your doing the Minion War in your game the Demons are likely to see such a large force as deevil minions invading Hades. Its kind of like poking a hornets nest

Carl

Our campaign was a blast fill with all kinds of twists and turns. We needed a powerful army to deal with the demon queen and the Night Lord and their minions. Our first raid was very fun and well played. We thought we were all powerful with them being low tech, but the sheer numbers was too much to deal with. Our plan was to draw out their armies then have our main squad sneak in, but we ran a fowl with not being aggressive enough. We had the advantage in the beginning yet to play it safe we pulled back to much and the demons seen this as a weakness and swarmed us. We held back most of our missiles for the end bosses that was the big mistake, if we had let a few good volleys go on the big hitters we would have won that battle and would have been on to the bosses. It was the Night Lord's Hounds with their damage resistance that really throw us off our game. I completely forgot about that ability and if I had remembered their weakness against magic we could easily dealt with them.

Your campaign sounds pretty cool. I can see what you mean about best laid plans of mice and men coming askew when you don't expect them too. What is your plan for the next round?

Our plan is to raid the citadel again using more of a magical attack. This time we plan not to go after the key, but get proof that Asa is consorting with demons which is not allowed by the Night Lords. We hope when he gets in trouble for this he'll have to remove his Minions, Making our third raid quit easy, but our GM will most likely put a new twist on things, like having Loki steal the key when the defenses are down. I have the inside track on this part of the story.

That sounds like a plan. And I think we can be sure the Gm will do his best to make the next couple of raids more fun than the preivous one. And don't forget the demon leaders could anticipate your attacks and plan for them too. And once the Minion Wars begin in earnest they'll out for your groups blood.

We raid the citadel with a small party using more of a magical attack work out this time. Getting proof that Asa is consorting with demons did not work out well because we took the proof to Lady Lilith the Night Lords, but she betrayed us because she would also be implicated for her dealing with demons. We hoped when Asa got in trouble for his deals he'll have to remove his Minions and they were. Making our third raid quit easy, but our squad was ambushed after we finally had the key. Valhexa our Shifter manged to cast illusory terrain and Waldron her Shen Wu minion used his whirlwind form to give us time to escape. Back at our Hade's base camp we gave the key to Odin who we later turned out to be Loki transformed. Well he's Odin's problem now. Odin was not happy with us, but gave us partial payment for getting it out of Nesper's hands. The payment was a Necronstaff, two scrolls of resurrection and gave us a map of Hades with the location of other dimensional realms within Hades. The Necrostaff should help pay off some of our repairs and at lease we maybe able to resurrect two of troops, but we may save them for another adventure. Were sending most our troops back to Rifts Earth for repairs and were going to see where the map lead. On the map a devil symbol that were pretty sure means its a portal to Dyval, were checking out the other ones first. I think the GM trying to trick us. I think we gave the real Odin the key and now Loki is the Odin who rewarded us and send us back into Hades.

That would be very much like Loki! He is the trickster god of the norse. And that sort of mischief would be something he would do. I bet you are glad to be finished with that little problem. Of course you have at least one demon lord angry with you and two nightlords who are going to want to have each and every one of you stuffed and mounted for trophies.

I think were going to roam some dimensions for the next few weeks. Then get back to our Rifts Nightbane story. Asa might have a problem when the Gargoyle Lords find out he does not have the key he was black mailing them with. He treated to collapse one of their home dimension with the key, so he may have done himself in now. A few hundred thousand Gargoyles might come knocking on his door soon.

He is a villian. Most villians the GM creates have many plans for them. He'll probably be able to get rid of his problem with the gargoyles. Dump it on some minions doorstep. That is unless the GM is truly down with him.

He was really too powerful for us to deal with, so I hope this weakness his power base in Germany. He's a likable villain that we have been dealing with for two plus years. One good thing about him was he keep the Gargoyle Nation under control and he wasn't out to really hurt the NGR. He wanted to protect them and slowly replace them with doppelgangers.

You are right he sound like a cool villian. Who was he going to replace? The humans of the NGR or the Gargoyles? You'll probably will have to deal with him for quite awhile. Smart villians are always fun for the GM to run.

I never really considered replacing the Gargoyles. I'll talk this over with my GM that could really add a twist. He based on a character my girl friend use to watch on One Life to Live who was a likable Texan billionaire Asa Buchanan who had a different wife ever few years (ten in total) and wasn't evil, yet wasn't against making people pay dearly for crossing him. Well the Night Lord version is pretty much the same as the soap character, nicer than most of his kind. He's driven to acquire power, but weak in controlling his feeling for women. He chases them and when he has them he gets bored easy, well this time his new Demon Lord wife can nearly equals him in power and has a greater army.

So hopefully he can run real fast if ticks her off.

So he is based on a real person! I have done that before. I'm thinking about doing that again for my present group. I might use some of the ideas gathered her to create him.