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Also think of the Dangers of Steam Tech and Magic being combined.

To figure out where tech is going to come from, you should first realize that it's going to develop in places where there isn't a viable alternative, and where it meets a need not currently being met.

The troglodytes, for example, are extremely low tech... all of their needs are met by their current (Mesolithic) technology, so they don't seek improvements. When you have improvements, they are often in line with their current technology (like using a metal axe instead of a stone one), rather than departures therefrom. They don't need anything more for their lifestyle to work.

Humans, on the other hand, don't need a whole lot in the way of technology. Most of their needs are met by magic; those who are brilliant are encouraged to follow that course of study (usually). Their other needs are usually met by the technology they have.

Then we get to dwarves, who I think are most likely to develop technology. They lack most magics to bridge the gap between their daily needs and exotic needs, but they live in a resource-intensive environment. I imagine they spend a large amount of time working on technological solutions to mundane problems. They're also the group with the most environmental exposure to ideas like steam pressure (due to underground geysers). Thus, they make the most likely technologists of the "great races".

I agree, Dwarves would most likely ti develop technology. Think about their mines, how do you ventilate, or pump out the mines, as you go deeper without magic. The steam pump I think was one of the first actual steam engines, used to allow mines to go below level that hand operated pumps could not raise the water to keep the mines from flooding.
Perhaps the dwarven race is the reason that the technology is not so wide spread as the see the potential for abuse that such technology could have. The use it, as the require it, but use it sparingly, and don't spread the knowledge around.

http://dementeddragon.proboards100.com/ ... hread=1275

here's my two cents on this

With all that said, I'm not a big fan of technology in Palladium Fantasy. I'd see the dwarves as having something like the Watt Engine, but not much more advanced than that. While they have need of things like that, they are extremely conservative... conservative to the point where they've held an oath made by their ancestors six thousand years ago. That's twelve average lifetimes ago (not generations... lifetimes... as in counting from one person who dies to someone who is born on the same day's death). In terms of generations, we're looking at twenty-five or twenty-six (assuming the average generation is a bit less than half the average lifetime). That's a long time.

If the dwarves were human, operating in human lifespans and generations, they would be holding to an oath made about the time of Columbus or Luther. Their entire race. Is your family Catholic? You're Catholic because your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandparents swore that none of their descendants would be Protestant. Your family holds to that oath so strongly that, were you to convert, they would kill you. Not when you got baptized, but when you started your study. In terms of world history, on an absolute scale, Uruk was a going concern. They Mayans wouldn't start their calendar for another seven hundred years.

That's how long the dwarves have held heir oath.

If you need boilers or a tech for a fantasy setting consider making it fantastic. While a cast iron pot full of water on top of a fire will make a boiler, Making the Cast Iron pot six stories high and constantlly needing lines of grim covered strong men singing "We work all day. We work all night. We never learned to read or write. We're the boiler, toiler men." would make it something out of Myth.

You could start with having the Dwarves use little things like the steam but have them developing it as the Campaign progresses. As far as the dwarves being super conservative. It could be a rogue group of Dwarves that are seeking to use it.

I wonder how a techno wizard would look in the PF world?

Native born, using a home-grown techno-wizardry and Palladium technical mindset, or off-planet, using Rifts Earth technological mindsets and working from a Palladium technological base?

A native-born TW is going to work BIG; big work almost always requires big machines in a medieval level of technology. He's not going to have something neatly comparable to a Rifts Flaming Sword; he doesn't have a concept of circuitry, wires, nor batteries to build something like that. He might have a flame cannon, or even steam technology... things that work from physical properties visible on the macro scale, but above that of simple machines.

A Rifts Earth TW working with Palladium tech base will be clunky, for the most part. While he's got the mindset that very small things can do a lot of work, he's going to be somewhat limited by the local technological base; his wires won't be much of a problem, but his casings will either take a long time or be makeshift.

Mark Hall wrote:Native born, using a home-grown techno-wizardry and Palladium technical mindset, or off-planet, using Rifts Earth technological mindsets and working from a Palladium technological base?

A native-born TW is going to work BIG; big work almost always requires big machines in a medieval level of technology. He's not going to have something neatly comparable to a Rifts Flaming Sword; he doesn't have a concept of circuitry, wires, nor batteries to build something like that. He might have a flame cannon, or even steam technology... things that work from physical properties visible on the macro scale, but above that of simple machines.

A Rifts Earth TW working with Palladium tech base will be clunky, for the most part. While he's got the mindset that very small things can do a lot of work, he's going to be somewhat limited by the local technological base; his wires won't be much of a problem, but his casings will either take a long time or be makeshift.

Thanks man, but I just wanted to know what kind of pants and stuff he'd wear

Ah. Leather, with big pockets, both on his pants and his shirt. Thick, soft leather will provide a bit of protection from heat and incidental cuts and scratches, while allowing a lot of maneuverability.

This thread sounds less like a PFRPG and more like a RIFTS game.

Probitas wrote:This thread sounds less like a PFRPG and more like a RIFTS game.

Two things I do not like in my fantasy games:
1) A proliferation of post-Middle Ages technology.
2) Samurai, ninja, and other Asian stereotypes.

Post Middle ages tech could be used in limited ways in a long running campaign to give the world a sense of moving along if you run a long running game and things don't change then it gets droll. Now I do agree that I don't like asian stereo types in fantasy games though sometimes they fit like with Dnd's Oriental Adventures it is set up in such a way that it does fit in with the world. But if the world doesn't have a place for it, like PFRPG then it is unnecessary. Though if someone wanted to they could by creating a new continent and saying that any such stuff are foreigners on some purpose be it explore or conquer.

In true forum trolling fashion i did not read like 60% of the posts but came up with an interesting though.

Instead of using the word tech, make this whole idea a form of magic. Find a diabolist and the appropriate mage/warlock ; Create some permanence wards with the spells you'll need to combine and seem if u can make something like that... (of course i'm thinking it'd be stationary, so no cars and whatnot) But is a way to have a perpetual source of hot water and etc. (Just a simple one that'd be interesting can be a Fire Ball ward facing a Create water ward and theres your steam)

But stuff like that, also keep in mind to have the gold to hire those mages needed though.

Well, the question I have is why bother to implement it into the game? Is it going to be something the PC's are regularly going to use or with which they'll interact? Will it be something that the characters need to stop or start for a quest or adventure? If it's not going to be an integral part of the game then don't bother figuring it out. If it's just flavor text, then mention to set the mood up for the PC's then keep on talking them into the real action. The average PC wouldn't really care that much what was heating the castle, unless he's an architect or is looking into having his own keep built. Either way, that doesn't make for much swashbuckling.

As for Dwarves, I could see them turning to technology as opposed to magic since they have sworn it off. What might be an interesting plot point is some intrepid Dwarve(s) coming up with something like Steam Power but having the rest of their brethren considering it to be magic. The PC's could be brought in to hunt them or protect them.

-Vek
"With no steam power, how do they prepare broccoli?"

My thoughts exactly Vek. It was to be in some way involved in an adventure. That is what I would use it for, I don't know about others that have expressed their views. But I was thinking (if I ever do run a PF game) and do decide to involve some low level tech stuff is that it would be involving to players in starting or stoping said device for some purpose or another. And I do like that idea about the dwarves developing a tech that seems like magic to other dwarves and the players are involved in figuring out what's going on.

You'll have to work it so the players don't know what you are talking about, otherwise they'll realize that if they tamper with the boiler, it will explode and kill them. It's just not that much fun to go to all the trouble of creating something if the players never really interact with it.

I agree Probitas.