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Mt. Nimro, page 32. "Precious metals such as gold, silver, bronze and gemstones can not be conjured."

"mad scientist laugh"

The type of magic is the same... they're both conjurers. The Mt. Nimro source is more recent.

The best hint for a techno-wizard short of gems is to befriend an earth warlock. 1 Earth elemental = any gem you want, basically.

whipped4073 wrote:

Rogue_Scientist wrote:I'd allow it, to be honest. The book makes the gem cost higher and the availability rarer on Rifts Earth than I would think they need to be. The permanent PPE loss to the conjurer really sucks, too, if I recall, because they're a class with relatively low PPE base and high PPE cost abilities.

If costs really stay that high, you're telling me there's no dimensional trader who's figured out how to exploit these poor dumb yokels by now with cheap, efficiently mined gems from another planet? *cough*SPLUGORTH*cough*?!?

~RS

PS- And...just to nitpick at the OP a little, you are going to lose some material in the cutting process, bro. That math is a bit off.

I didn't say you wouldn't lose anything, but as long as the carat weight matches up to the requirements, Techno-Wizards can still use the little slivers that jewelers can't usually do anything with. So the majority of any "lost" carats are going to be either in a "dust" form, or such small slivers that even a brush or broom won't pick them up.

Techno-wizards can only use natural gems, not those created by man.

Earth elementals can't make gems, but they can move through the earth and find them for you.

whipped4073 wrote:

Prince Artemis wrote:

whipped4073 wrote:I didn't say you wouldn't lose anything, but as long as the carat weight matches up to the requirements, Techno-Wizards can still use the little slivers that jewelers can't usually do anything with. So the majority of any "lost" carats are going to be either in a "dust" form, or such small slivers that even a brush or broom won't pick them up.

Techno-wizards can only use natural gems, not those created by man.

Synthetically created (i.e. lab-grown), yes.

But the Conjurer conjures in real items (including living animals) -- whether it's the temporary or permanent version, the conjurations are indistinguishable from those found in nature (unlike lab-grown gems, which are chemically the same & have the same properties, but can still be differentiated via some lab tests).

Yep, they sure are 100% the real deal! I completely forgot that real things fade away after a couple of minutes....

whipped4073 wrote:

Prince Artemis wrote:

whipped4073 wrote:
Synthetically created (i.e. lab-grown), yes.

But the Conjurer conjures in real items (including living animals) -- whether it's the temporary or permanent version, the conjurations are indistinguishable from those found in nature (unlike lab-grown gems, which are chemically the same & have the same properties, but can still be differentiated via some lab tests).

Yep, they sure are 100% the real deal! I completely forgot that real things fade away after a couple of minutes....

What I meant was that even the items that aren't conjured permanently are indistinguishable from the "real deals". A conjured bear will look, smell, s**t, & act like a regular bear, even if he's going to wink out in a few hours. And if the conjurer spends the extra 70 P.P.E. (plus 1D6 of his permanent base P.P.E.), said conjured bear will be able to find himself a sweet honey to hibernate & have cubs with.

If the Conjurer's abilities can manage that, then I think conjuring 100% real gems would be a lot simpler...

Interesting idea, but again, I don't think it's really in their power. As mentioned previously, it was mentioned in the PFRPG conjurer there's a note that says they can't. As to why it's not in the Book of Magic? Most of the stuff was simple copy and paste. They were making a massive book and frankly, retyping everything would have been a glorious waste of time. And some stuff that is meant to be put in can disappear when you're actually writing it. Sadly this happens often in Palladium's Books, but truthfully it happens just about everywhere as well. Case in point, Rifts Ultimate Edition, look and invisibility simple. It says that attacking doesn't cause the spell to stop for it and Invisibility Superior, then go read Invisibility superior. The attacking negates it rule is still there.

I'd also argue that a conjured bear wouldn't s*** as there would be nothing in their stomach at the time of creation and most creature's digestion wouldn't be fast enough to do the job before they wink out

My 2 cents: I was having a hard enough time figuring out whether piece of wood created using a Create Wood spell would work for an Eco-wizard item. I finally ruled it probably would not.

As to Conjurers, I would rule that they can not create gems of sufficient purity to be used...there are lots more "dirt grade" stones out there than "jewelry grade", but the dirt grade ones are not usable in magic. The reason in design logic may be to keep from wrecking economies by flooding the market, but in "internal logic" it has to do with the magical nature of "noble materia".

AlanGunhouse wrote:My 2 cents: I was having a hard enough time figuring out whether piece of wood created using a Create Wood spell would work for an Eco-wizard item. I finally ruled it probably would not.

As to Conjurers, I would rule that they can not create gems of sufficient purity to be used...there are lots more "dirt grade" stones out there than "jewelry grade", but the dirt grade ones are not usable in magic. The reason in design logic may be to keep from wrecking economies by flooding the market, but in "internal logic" it has to do with the magical nature of "noble materia".

Actually, create wood would work for eco-wizard items. It's not real conjuration. The spell doesn't create anything from mid air, it takes some wood material and basically increases it's mass. Kind of like a plant cloning spell to some degree.

ever wonder about the Conjurers only x+ level moving parts for inanimate objects yet they can create living animals that require billions of moving parts

Also wonder why conjurers can not create solid state items like lasars with no moving parts?

I most likely wouldn't allow it in my games based on the fact that one of the first rules of Conjuring magic is that the item has to be "simple" ...and gem structures are most certainly not simple.

I defy you to find a "simple" living creature of non microscopic size.

AlanGunhouse wrote:I defy you to find a "simple" living creature of non microscopic size.

Animals have their own set of limitations and thus can be as complex as allowed by those rules.

whipped4073 wrote:

Prince Artemis wrote:

whipped4073 wrote:
Synthetically created (i.e. lab-grown), yes.

But the Conjurer conjures in real items (including living animals) -- whether it's the temporary or permanent version, the conjurations are indistinguishable from those found in nature (unlike lab-grown gems, which are chemically the same & have the same properties, but can still be differentiated via some lab tests).

Yep, they sure are 100% the real deal! I completely forgot that real things fade away after a couple of minutes....

What I meant was that even the items that aren't conjured permanently are indistinguishable from the "real deals". A conjured bear will look, smell, s**t, & act like a regular bear, even if he's going to wink out in a few hours. And if the conjurer spends the extra 70 P.P.E. (plus 1D6 of his permanent base P.P.E.), said conjured bear will be able to find himself a sweet honey to hibernate & have cubs with.

If the Conjurer's abilities can manage that, then I think conjuring 100% real gems would be a lot simpler...

LOL that fits right in line with how I run conjurers. In my games they are acutally summoning the farthest (physically distant) REAL item that matches whatever they are conjuring.

Most left handed conjureres are run them out of town.

People hate them because they actually summon the nearest REAL item to match thier item. At 5 th level, and for tripple the normal PPE, a conjurer can focus on an item in their line of sight and summon that specific item! Most left handed conjureres keep their abilities secret. If they want to they will rob from your till to pay you (so long as the nearest coins are in your till!), conjure cups out of peoples hands (to use, or simply as a joke in a bar... no mug to hold your drink eh buddy guess you'll be wearing that ale), remove the blouse from the pretty serving wench (no offence to ugly serving wenches), conjure all the wooden dowels from an inn when you leave (furniture and possibly even the structure would be weakened and might soon colapse, etc. etc. Also they make excelent pick pockets as they simply can stand behind a person and take their possessions if they know what they possess...

The trouble with all of this is that the items return to their previous owner when the durration of the conjuration expires so the victim could possibly figure out it was conjured and if there are other victims they may then piece together the fact that there they had a left handed conjurer in town!

Some left handed conjurers are scared to use they will be branded a thief and so use their abilities very sparingly or not at all when they are in a location where they could be discovered... these particular conjurers will also pretend to be right handed choosing conciously to do things like lifting mugs, eating, and some have even trained themselves to write right handed (not just for cover but also because wet ink, like that from quill pens, smears very readily).

I would not think that version of conjuration makes much sense, you would have to pay energy to return the item to whence it came.