Blinding Flash clarification

[verdilak]

I've looked in BOM and RUE, the RUE errata, and searched the form, but came up dry.

It says that the save is standard, however it can be raised by one (-1 to save) with the addition of 3 PPE.

Is there an official ruling on an upper limit? If 3 can be pumped in, why not more? And if so, just how much?

If you can pump more in, the upper limit is based upon how much you are willing to spend.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Blinding Flash
Level 2
Range: 10 foot radius, up to 60 feet away
Duration: instant
Saving Throws: none
P.P.E.: 5
Blinds everyone with in a 10 foot radius with a sudden burst of intense real light. Victims are blinded fro 1d4 melees, -5 attack, -10 P/D, 50% chance of falling down every 10 feet of movement. All out side the 10 foot radius, and looking at the area, must save verses non-lethal poison or suffer the same penalties as those caught with-in the spell area of effect. The spell caster of this spell can blind himself if he is in the area of effect or is looking at the area or effect when it goes off.

As you can see my version is a level higher then the book version and has no saving throw vs magic due to the magic producing real light for it's BF instead of an illusionary light.

See the rest of my creations in invented spells sticky.

[Mouser13]

I would say you can only pump it once. I used to play you could keep rolled 6's on stats for higher which has very similar writting, but now with the rue it been stated clearly it only one extra. So if I would say only once.

[Library Ogre]

Bloodspray opened up a can of worms; if Blinding Flash can be more potent by pumping in extra P.P.E. why can't other spells do the same?

Largely because they're not designed to; redesigning them is a bit of an endeavour.

And I'm not a fan of the spell, Drewkitty. Nothing implies that the light from Blinding Flash is anything less than real, visible, light. Robotic, bionic, and cybernetic eyes have flare compensators to deal with an instantaneous flash of light... flesh and blood eyes do not.

[Library Ogre]

And I'm not a fan of the spell, Drewkitty. Nothing implies that the light from Blinding Flash is anything less than real, visible, light. Robotic, bionic, and cybernetic eyes have flare compensators to deal with an instantaneous flash of light... flesh and blood eyes do not.

The fact that there are tech versions of the concept that do create real light, yet not require a save is what implies that Blinding Flash is anything less than real, visible light.

Granted, it should not work on anyone with anti-dazzle optics, but everyone else should be "hit" by it. The fact that there is a save means that it's not actual light that's creating the effect, thus the 'need' for a spell like Drews, or suggestion like Gadrins.

A save in Palladium isn't just "Magic Resistance", though. It's also avoiding the effects through luck or training. Your eyes were closed at that instant... you saved.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Bloodspray opened up a can of worms; if Blinding Flash can be more potent by pumping in extra P.P.E. why can't other spells do the same?

Only if the spell description says you can. If you want to build a spell variant of a spell that you can, then consult the Spell creation/modification rules in Through the Glass Darkly.

If the L1 BF wasn't Illusionary then their would be no save vs magic for it.

I've actually read virtually all of the BF description. Along with it being listed among the list of Illusionary magic the HUr Illusionists can cast, and that cybernetic and bionic eyes are not affected. So mine is an informed opinion.

[Library Ogre]

I've actually read virtually all of the BF description. Along with it being listed among the list of Illusionary magic the HUr Illusionists can cast, and that cybernetic and bionic eyes are not affected. So mine is an informed opinion.

Unless I'm mistaken (since that's an old source, I don't seem to have it), isn't Chameleon, as well? The one that makes changes in how real light reflects off the person? And, IIRC, so is Age, which ages you to the reasonable maximum of your lifespan... that doesn't seem like much of an illusion.

And how do you answer "This invocation creates a sudden burst of intense, white light..." No mention of "seems to" or "illusion"... just that it's light.

My explanation... that some people will avoid it due to eyes closed, head turned, etc., and that a save vs. magic is the easiest way to deal with this, is far more reasonable, and sticks to a plain reading of the text.

[drewkitty ~..~]

My suggestion...

rename it to: Not Always Blinding Flash


>

--------------------------------------------------------
BF question
If there is no limit set by the description, then there is no limit, except the amount of extra PPE the mage is willing to spend.

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all other spells question
(see answer above)

[drewkitty ~..~]

If you look in my L2 BF there is a saving throw but its just not vs magic. The choice of which one was to reflect that it is a sudden (instant) flash of light, and Hard to avoid being blinded by it. of course that saving throw only applies to those only looking into the BF area, the ones in the area have no where to turn because the flash emanates from all the area they are in.

[Library Ogre]

And how do you answer "This invocation creates a sudden burst of intense, white light..." No mention of "seems to" or "illusion"... just that it's light.

My explanation... that some people will avoid it due to eyes closed, head turned, etc., and that a save vs. magic is the easiest way to deal with this, is far more reasonable, and sticks to a plain reading of the text.

Despite this being Palladium (the Anti-Sense), consistency is still key. Your explanation of a save does make sense, however, that leaves a few MAJOR problems. Firstly, if it's save vs magic, just for the sake of "ease", then you have a case of people with OCC based bonuses to save vs magic getting a boost, and even if you call that "experience with mages using blinding flash, ok, but that doesn't account for magic items that boost that save, they have nothing to do with experience, or reaction time, or anything else that might be involved in such "avoidance". Secondly, you have borgs, and people in welding goggles (and similar) getting affected if they fail their save, which, if it's just light, then how could that be possible? Thirdly, if the "save" is simply having your eyes closed or turning your head away, then why do you not lose your attack and/or initiative? And finally, why would all this not also apply to the technological version?

The easiest thing to do would be to simply drop the save. OR, assume it's a mental magic effect and not real light.

So, you're saying it makes the most sense to completely ignore what is written, because it doesn't agree with what you think should be written?