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Can Bio-wizardry be used on Mutants and/or genetic enchanced beings like achilles neo-humans?

Yes, but the effects might not be very positive. To have best effect, the character's race would need to be understood properly.

Astral Pantheon wrote:Can Bio-wizardry be used on Mutants and/or genetic enchanced beings like achilles neo-humans?

Yes. Bio Wizardy can effect every kind of being without exception.

except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

Bio Wizardy dosn't transform, it adds. Different things. bio-wizardy works just fine.

energy creatures like those from three galaxies

I'd like to see what you can do to a machine man to

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

Bio Wizardy dosn't transform, it adds. Different things. bio-wizardy works just fine.

1 + 1 = 2. I have added, yet I have transformed. The only time adding does not transform is when you add nothing.

Not to mention page 106 of Atlantis specifically mentions that it's a transformation... and the first section is called "Transmutation."

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

Bio Wizardy dosn't transform, it adds. Different things. bio-wizardy works just fine.

Still I don't think it works on shapeshifters, though I haven't looked at it in awhile. Not sure about TAs.

csbioborg wrote:energy creatures like those from three galaxies

Okay

I'd like to see what you can do to a machine man to

Machine Man are Artifical intelligence robots. Just as much as could be done to ARCHIE.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

Bio Wizardy dosn't transform, it adds. Different things. bio-wizardy works just fine.

1 + 1 = 2. I have added, yet I have transformed. The only time adding does not transform is when you add nothing.[quote]

Uh...it dosn't matter what you add, you havn't transformed anything.

I have an apple, you give me another apple, I now have 2 apples, but neither I or the apples have in any way changed

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

Bio Wizardy dosn't transform, it adds. Different things. bio-wizardy works just fine.

1 + 1 = 2. I have added, yet I have transformed. The only time adding does not transform is when you add nothing.

Uh...it dosn't matter what you add, you havn't transformed anything.

I have an apple, you give me another apple, I now have 2 apples, but neither I or the apples have in any way changed

On the contrary; you have changed 1 into 2.

Page 154, WB21 wrote: Humans & human-like D-Bees are the most commonly used, but any non-supernatural beings can also fall victim to these experimentaions.

The above is in regards to the Bio-Borg RCC. Page 160 has the race restrictions, which also rule out the supernatural & creatures of magic.

So, a yes (if human) with possible mutantion roll .

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:except for those immune to transforming magic.

TA's & NB's come to mind

Bio Wizardy dosn't transform, it adds. Different things. bio-wizardy works just fine.

1 + 1 = 2. I have added, yet I have transformed. The only time adding does not transform is when you add nothing.

Uh...it dosn't matter what you add, you havn't transformed anything.

I have an apple, you give me another apple, I now have 2 apples, but neither I or the apples have in any way changed

On the contrary; you have changed 1 into 2.

That dosn't make any sense...a number is a representation of an amount, not a thing. Numbers cannot change. 1 is 1, 2 is 2, either your number is 2 or it is 1, or it is something else--the number themselves, the value, dosn't change.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:That dosn't make any sense...a number is a representation of an amount, not a thing. Numbers cannot change. 1 is 1, 2 is 2, either your number is 2 or it is 1, or it is something else--the number themselves, the value, dosn't change.

Numbers are things, and they are representative of things. When you add a number to a number, you have a new number... it is transformed.

When you add a bio-wizard trait to a human, you have a new creature; no longer human. You have added something to it, but you have likewise transformed it.

Mark Hall wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:That dosn't make any sense...a number is a representation of an amount, not a thing. Numbers cannot change. 1 is 1, 2 is 2, either your number is 2 or it is 1, or it is something else--the number themselves, the value, dosn't change.

Numbers are things, and they are representative of things. When you add a number to a number, you have a new number... it is transformed.

No, actually, when you add something to a total, your replacing the old number with a new number.

When you add a bio-wizard trait to a human, you have a new creature; no longer human. You have added something to it, but you have likewise transformed it.

No, actually, you have a human with wings stapled on to the back.

Guys, we could just go through the books to see if any of the TA NPCs have any bio-wizardy stuff added to them. If there's one, then it would mean TAs could get the stuff. If there's none, then it would lean to (though not definately prove) that TAs are immmune to the process.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:No, actually, when you add something to a total, your replacing the old number with a new number.

No, you are transforming (except in the case of 0, which is the identity function). When you deal with discrete objects (apple plus apple), it's harder to see, but numbers transform via addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.

No, actually, you have a human with wings stapled on to the back.

The wings are an integrated portion of the body. They take part in the character's blood, and they tire him to use. A technological set of wings is just attached (though, hopefully, not stapled)... the bio-wizard wings are part of your body, just as your arm is.

---O.K., let me tweak the question to:

Achilles neo-human undergoes the following bio-wizardry:
M.D.C. 75
PS(SN) 50
and
Spd 44

Since, this is below the 6 enhancements then there should be No mutantion.

Am I correct on this train of thought??

Astral Pantheon wrote:---O.K., let me tweak the question to:

Achilles neo-human undergoes the following bio-wizardry:
M.D.C. 75
PS(SN) 50
and
Spd 44

Since, this is below the 6 enhancements then there should be No mutantion.

Am I correct on this train of thought??

Yes

Sunaj Assassins are TA's and they have bio-wizard enhancements. They are modified not transformed.

What biowizardry do Sunaj have?

Talavar wrote:What biowizardry do Sunaj have?

None at all.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Talavar wrote:What biowizardry do Sunaj have?

None at all.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Ok, mathematically speaking: addition is transformation from one integer to another.

HOWEVER: Life, while systematically represented by math as a explanation/model for pretty much everything (mathematicist), looking at the way things are described in game, mystical transformation is a translateral change from one creature/appearance to another, whereas biowizadry is more akin to bionic/implants/mystically linking one organism part to another.

So, a more interesting question is, are TA unable to get bionics?

Atlantis, pg 107, Magic Transmutation:"Transmutation is a process that magically transforms the character."

The first sentence alone disallows True Atlanteans Transmutation.

9voltkilowatt wrote:Atlantis, pg 107, Magic Transmutation:"Transmutation is a process that magically transforms the character."

The first sentence alone disallows True Atlanteans Transmutation.

Well, that settles that, time for house rules!

Severite wrote:So, a more interesting question is, are TA unable to get bionics?

I would say yes. The integration of bionics is all hardware side... the bionics are designed to work with the body as-is, rather than trying to change the body to work with it.

Mark Hall wrote:

Severite wrote:So, a more interesting question is, are TA unable to get bionics?

I would say yes. The integration of bionics is all hardware side... the bionics are designed to work with the body as-is, rather than trying to change the body to work with it.

Gotta agree with mark on this one.

9voltkilowatt wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Severite wrote:So, a more interesting question is, are TA unable to get bionics?

I would say yes. The integration of bionics is all hardware side... the bionics are designed to work with the body as-is, rather than trying to change the body to work with it.

Gotta agree with mark on this one.

Me too, though I see bio wizardry as much the same, so.........

Severite wrote:

9voltkilowatt wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Severite wrote:So, a more interesting question is, are TA unable to get bionics?

I would say yes. The integration of bionics is all hardware side... the bionics are designed to work with the body as-is, rather than trying to change the body to work with it.

Gotta agree with mark on this one.

Me too, though I see bio wizardry as much the same, so.........

I see Bio Wizardry as being fairly different; instead of working with the body, it changes the body to include the new piece. If you get hit in your Bio-wizard wing, you feel pain and bleed blood. It's not that sensors register an impact, and a computer in the limb translate it into a pain sensation for processing by your brain... it's pain, from nerves to brain.

A different case might be made for Shadowrun-like Biotech... cultured organs implanted in you. However, I think those are the province of Rifts Bio-systems.

Mark Hall wrote:

Severite wrote:

9voltkilowatt wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:

Severite wrote:So, a more interesting question is, are TA unable to get bionics?

I would say yes. The integration of bionics is all hardware side... the bionics are designed to work with the body as-is, rather than trying to change the body to work with it.

Gotta agree with mark on this one.

Me too, though I see bio wizardry as much the same, so.........

I see Bio Wizardry as being fairly different; instead of working with the body, it changes the body to include the new piece. If you get hit in your Bio-wizard wing, you feel pain and bleed blood. It's not that sensors register an impact, and a computer in the limb translate it into a pain sensation for processing by your brain... it's pain, from nerves to brain.

A different case might be made for Shadowrun-like Biotech... cultured organs implanted in you. However, I think those are the province of Rifts Bio-systems.

Well, I see it as more of a graft/DNA manipulation using magic, then as how the spell transformation works.