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While I think the “threat levels”, psychic adrenaline rushes and such of the BTS 2nd edition rules are made of genius, there has been an issue that I still go back and forth with about them.

The book never gives direct info as to the nature of how the threat levels occur. In theory taking this ability in its purest form dictates that when a psychic gets near a creature their threat level triggers an ISP boost and adrenaline rush no matter what the creature is or what its doing at the time.

I have an issue with this as it ruins opportunities for role playing certain villains and gives away more info than it should at times. For example, let’s say the PC’s are meeting up with someone who’s actually a Succubus in the disguise of a beautiful woman for an interview, to get information, etc. If there is a PC in the bunch who has psychic abilities, the moment they’d handshake or get close enough to the creature they would know something is up, completely killing the deceiving angle the creature has and ruin any plot twists or surprises you may want to use her for later.

I like the vulnerability it has where when lightning strikes you can see past its façade and see what it really is, and I even like where certain PC’s like a diviner can use their “investigative” psychic talents to know there is something more than meets the eye, but that requires the pc using his abilities as the given moment, putting the motion in the players hands and can give them clues instead of just letting the cat out of the bag right away.

So what I’ve come up with is to treat the threat level LITERALLY like a threat level. If the succubus is in disguise and possesses no potential threat to the players, I don’t give them the psychic boost. If during the conversation the succubus decided to attack them or use its abilities in anyway, THEN they are a threat and the boost should kick in accordingly.

This turns the psychic’s abilities into something of a Sixth Sense against the supernatural when they are in imminent danger. Predators and those on the prowl should rightfully alert the characters immediately, but for those deceivers and those in hiding that are not causing any danger should remain hidden till they create cause for alarm in my opinion.

How do you folks feel about and deal with this?

It's been a long time since I read the proximity and power rules, but I don't recall anything saying the PCs must notice the increase in I.S.P.
It creates more GM bookkeeping, but everything has +s and -s I guess.

Natasha wrote:It's been a long time since I read the proximity and power rules, but I don't recall anything saying the PCs must notice the increase in I.S.P.
It creates more GM bookkeeping, but everything has +s and -s I guess.

While it doesnt offically say that they would notice, being as they get the "psychic adrenaline rush" I cant see how they wouldnt notice.

Is See Aura the threat power, for example?

mrloucifer wrote:

Natasha wrote:It's been a long time since I read the proximity and power rules, but I don't recall anything saying the PCs must notice the increase in I.S.P.
It creates more GM bookkeeping, but everything has +s and -s I guess.

While it doesnt offically say that they would notice, being as they get the "psychic adrenaline rush" I cant see how they wouldnt notice.

That's the beautiful thing about I.S.P.: it's a mystery. A rush of I.S.P. is whatever you want it to be. Indeed, I.S.P. is whatever you want it to be.

It's conditional on playstyle in regards to how you handle I.S.P., the characters' awareness of it, etc.

That's how I do it too, mrloucifer. The threat level, and the key word here is threat, only applies when the character is aware that there is a threat.

Otherwise powers/abilities that allow characters to detect nasties (like sense evil/olfactory symbols etc) are rather devalued as is the mystery and suspense of the game.

sHaka wrote:That's how I do it too, mrloucifer. The threat level, and the key word here is threat, only applies when the character is aware that there is a threat.

Otherwise powers/abilities that allow characters to detect nasties (like sense evil/olfactory symbols etc) are rather devalued as is the mystery and suspense of the game.

Wurd

vika wrote:Is See Aura the threat power, for example?

I would say it isn't.

I like it.
A villain the hero can't detect until he become a real direct danger is good.

Many things to consider. The succubus can be the threat without using a single supernatural power.

BtS-2 gives more responsibility to the GM than the other Palladium Books games, I think.

vika wrote:Many things to consider. The succubus can be the threat without using a single supernatural power.

BtS-2 gives more responsibility to the GM than the other Palladium Books games, I think.

I would completley agree with that, and I think the game is better for it. While its true that a Succubus can be a threat without using their ability, in my mind its when they become a "immenent threat" on the person's body or mind is where the boost is triggered.

Subtle and unharmful powers desinged for moving about in public or dealing with the players would be useless and ruin a lot of the potential for Player character usage if they know something is up from the get go. For example, if a diviner was meeting a succubus in human guise, if his isp boosted when in the immediate vicinity his other abilites become frivelous and uneccsary and spoil the "mysterious" nature of the game.

Its much more interesting and exciting if the diviner used his "touch conveyance" while shaking hands, thereby learning that there is a powerful evil within this woman who is also secrative and resentful twords the diviner... this doesnt mean she's supernatural, she's just an evil woman so far. If he pursues further he could use his "see aura of the supernatural" and THEN he would know that its a succumus (or at least some kind of demon if he's not seen a succubus before), but he learned this information on his own merits and talents as opposed to be given everything up front. Taking that away takes his ability to play out his special talents and have a moment in the spotlight amongst the other characters.

I have a saying that a GM should be a tour guide, not a roller coaster. As a guide I take them places but I let them look around freely on their own and at what interests them. A roller coaster gm dictated every action and the players basically go along for the ride... in the beginning the coaster might be fun, but it gets old after a few rides and the same experiences. And in my opinion giving up such knowledge right away (hey players, its a demon in hiding... whatcha gonna do about it?) makes for a boring roller coaster ride to begin with.

Yes. It all depends.

What you think about this one? It could be so, that the PCs burn all (or significant amount) base I.S.P. while in presence of supernatural monster because they not boosted yet. When the boost comes, their pool is dried already.

vika wrote:What you think about this one? It could be so, that the PCs burn all (or significant amount) base I.S.P. while in presence of supernatural monster because they not boosted yet. When the boost comes, their pool is dried already.

That's why I am inclined to say they don't really notice the boost. Give it to them, and then find a way appropriate to the scene to clue them in on it.

The flavour text quoting Lazlo says they feel it, but nowhere else is said that the character realises it's happened or happening. It's an odd evolutionary response to be in the presence of the supernatural.

It's quite conflicting text.

I agree; the text is conflicting and I’m all for Kevin expanding on this in a future book.

My thoughts of how I came to the conclusions with my style of ISP boosts come from the text on pages 30 & 31, including the following notes;

-“In the presence of serious danger, particularly in the presence of magic or the supernatural, the characters powers increase exponentially.”
I see presence as the key word here (and a realization that my background in law at litigation is coming out here.)

-“While some psychics and Parapsychologists have compared this to a “psychic adrenaline rush" it is actually something more”.

-“When face to face with the supernatural or magic, the psychics inner strength boils with increased energy (increased ISP to be spent on psychic abilities). The greater the threat, the greater the energy level.”

-This note from Lazlo’s notes on page 30 I think has the most impact on me;

“According to most, they can feel their inner strength rise proportionately higher based on the level of danger.”

These notes in my interpreting are why I as a GM will give an ISP boost only when they are in presence of serious danger, so a creature “in disguise” with no intent to harm them wouldn’t trigger a boost, and also based on these notes I believe they always know when their ISP boost is activated, even if they don’t always know the source or cause of it.

Thanks. I have a few questions, to help me better understand your interpretation.

mrloucifer"-“While some psychics and Parapsychologists have compared this to a “psychic adrenaline rush" it is actually something more”.[/quote]
Some, but not all. As Elfy mentioned, that could be different for every single character. How do you decide?

[quote="mrloucifer wrote:-“When face to face with the supernatural or magic, the psychics inner strength boils with increased energy (increased ISP to be spent on psychic abilities). The greater the threat, the greater the energy level.”

The driving principle is proximity = power, not danger = power. Right?

Is a Hell Hound staring at me a threat, is it a danger? It's not trying to bite my face off or even corner me; it's just staring at me. Do I have to wait for it try to bite my face off before I can get enough I.S.P. to use powers to kick its ass?

mrloucifer wrote:-This note from Lazlo’s notes on page 30 I think has the most impact on me;

“According to most, they can feel their inner strength rise proportionately higher based on the level of danger.”

Are PCs automatically considered "most"?

Two questions on this one to repsond to;

#1 If a Hell Hound staring at me a threat, is it a danger? It's not trying to bite my face off or even corner me; it's just staring at me. Do I have to wait for it try to bite my face off before I can get enough I.S.P. to use powers to kick its ass?

-Not in my eyes. You have to look at the creature and its nature is how I handle these. In my earlier example I used a succubus... very different from a hell hound. A Succubus in disguise is intentionally trying to hide, where the Hell Hound is coming from I dont know as I see them as the "attack on sight" kinda beings.

But for the sake of arguement, if one is merely staring you down and not attacking.... as a GM I'd probrably throw the player a bone and increase the ISP as they are aware of its presence and their probrably bound to do something about it.

mrloucifer wrote:-This note from Lazlo’s notes on page 30 I think has the most impact on me;

“According to most, they can feel their inner strength rise proportionately higher based on the level of danger.”

Are PCs automatically considered "most"?[/quote]

Its my philosphy and belief that the PC's play "larger than life" individuals in a world full fo the mundane who dont/cant belive in the supernatural. as larger than life individuals (and for the sake of keep the game flow going smooth) I five everyone the ability to feel the rise of their inner strength. It would really suck to be a player who didnt feel when the other players could.

Thanks for the replies and clarifications all.