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Ok, the old problem.

In some of the older books, some weapons list damage as 1 round, the saying it can fire a weapon in, Standard, burst, aimed shots. Then we would need to figure out the damage based on the older rules. Short burst X2, LB X3, sustained burst X7 IIRC.

Now, whats the rule of thumb for converting the older listed weapons using the New R:UE rule set.

Is the convention for the rate of fire as simple as saying a short burst is 3 rounds, a long burts is 6 rounds. Sustained is all rounds and 2 attacks?

Whats the best way for determining the amount of rounds fired in a burst?

Under the new rules, the only weapons that are capable of bursts are weapons that have a pre-set burst with a listed damage.

The problem being, I do not own any of the "updated and revised source books" like SB1. It was said the everything in that was updated to fit the newer rules, including equipment and weapons. I dont own that book. I own the first version, so the weapons in that book, which are listed as being a SMG are just saying standard RoF.

I am assuming they listed those in the revised book as having some sort of burst fire. I just dont have an example in front of me to follow for all those other books I own that are not updated.

Shotgun Jolly wrote:The problem being, I do not own any of the "updated and revised source books" like SB1. It was said the everything in that was updated to fit the newer rules, including equipment and weapons. I dont own that book. I own the first version, so the weapons in that book, which are listed as being a SMG are just saying standard RoF.

I am assuming they listed those in the revised book as having some sort of burst fire. I just dont have an example in front of me to follow for all those other books I own that are not updated.

Here is an example:
Rifts, p. 223
Wilk's 447 Laser Rifle
ROF: Standard

SB1r, p. 68
Wilk's 447 Laser Rifle
ROF: Each shot counts as one melee attack.

Same thing with the Wilk's 320 Laser Pistol; went from ROF: Standard to ROF: Each shot counts as one melee attack.

They've been nerfing down the rates of fire for weapons for a long time, starting with CWC (if not before). As the original burst/spray rules got eliminated, the formerly burst-capable weapons became single-shot weapons.

The JA-11 is the prime example of how messed-up this is.
The Ion blast used to be for hosing down enemies with bursts and sprays if you need to, but now it's just a single-shot weapon. Just like the laser, only less powerful (unless you're shooting at Glitter Boys) and with shorter range.
No real point to having it anymore, and one of the best weapons in the game has (if you play by canon) become mediocre to substandard.

I repeat:
As a rule, if a weapon used to have a ROF of "Standard" or even "Aimed, Burst, or Wild" then it now has a ROF of Single Shot.
There might be exceptions, but none spring to mind.

This irks me not a little.

When I tried originally, way back when, to decide whether "Rate of Fire: Standard" meant burst capable I rejoiced that the combat example in CB1 provided the irrefutable answer with Kev's battle between a CS grunt and a Cyber Knight (who, alas, was mercilessly bereft of his ancestor's uber anti-tech abilities). That example clearly states that the grunt lays down a long burst from his Wilk's laser pistol and even the preceding page (pg. 9) states "Unless otherwise noted, most energy weapons are considered to be automatic weapons."

Fine, I can live with the fact that not all energy weapons are automatic. I'm even happy with the way that pulse weapons and rail guns are subtly different too. What I'm not happy about is the nerfing of weapons that have been in in-game circulation for years without any real explanation for the contradiction.

All it does is create confusion and means that what were once quick and exciting encounters (do I try a few well-aimed shots or bank on a quick full auto take down and leave myself out of ammo?) are now long drawn out affairs that sometimes dominate an entire session (I've got a Wilk's 447 single shooter and it's got how much MDC?).

Personally I'm sticking with CB1 era burst rules as I feel they make more sense and are more fun.

sHaka wrote:This irks me not a little.

When I tried originally, way back when, to decide whether "Rate of Fire: Standard" meant burst capable I rejoiced that the combat example in CB1 provided the irrefutable answer with Kev's battle between a CS grunt and a Cyber Knight (who, alas, was mercilessly bereft of his ancestor's uber anti-tech abilities). That example clearly states that the grunt lays down a long burst from his Wilk's laser pistol and even the preceding page (pg. 9) states "Unless otherwise noted, most energy weapons are considered to be automatic weapons."

Fine, I can live with the fact that not all energy weapons are automatic. I'm even happy with the way that pulse weapons and rail guns are subtly different too. What I'm not happy about is the nerfing of weapons that have been in in-game circulation for years without any real explanation for the contradiction.

All it does is create confusion and means that what were once quick and exciting encounters (do I try a few well-aimed shots or bank on a quick full auto take down and leave myself out of ammo?) are now long drawn out affairs that sometimes dominate an entire session (I've got a Wilk's 447 single shooter and it's got how much MDC?).

Personally I'm sticking with CB1 era burst rules as I feel they make more sense and are more fun.

Agreed (although the CS character had a C-18, not a wilk's).

However, in the future I have considered attempting to play RUE as written, with no house-rules (if possible), just to see how it plays.
Rifts is no longer the game I started playing, and it hasn't been for years, but the game that it's morphed into might be worth playing in its own right.