Do not try to make Rifts make sense! (a pet peeve of mine)

[Riftmaker]

Damn streight, this is a game remember that.

[Marrowlight]

Some sense can be applied though, yes? Obviously Rifts is just about impossible without some major changes to our physical world, but you can only expect the readers to bend so far.


Of course, we do have Floopers....so maybe there is no hope, no hope at all

[Braden Campbell]

Rifts is a fun game with a great world. But you have to turn off any science circuits in your head to play it. ..

Makes it tough to play a Rogue Scientist...

[SoulofThunder]

Rifts is a fun game with a great world. But you have to turn off any science circuits in your head to play it. ..

Makes it tough to play a Rogue Scientist...

dang straight.

[Killer Cyborg]

Rifts is a fun game with a great world. But you have to turn off any science circuits in your head to play it. People have a habit of seeing a somewhat scientific term in Rifts, and then wondering how to explain it, or what it really means.

Here's what it really means: the designers thought it sounded cool.
That's all it means.

As proof of this (and proof that I have too much time on my hands), I took up a little experiment. To avoid copyright infringement, lets take some completely hypothetical spell that does 1d4x100 Megadamage by summoning up a softball sized chunk of antimatter (completely hypothetical, remember).

A regulation softball is about 0.25kg (I'm rounding to keep math easy).
When antimatter hits matter, it will annihilate an equal amount of matter to it, converting both into energy (yay Einstein).
so 0.25kg antimatter + 0.25kg matter = 0.5kg
Put that into E=mc^2 (c=3x10^8 m/s, for those without their textbooks), and we get 4.5x10^16 Joules.
Assuming max damage on that blast (400MD) and doing a small unit conversion, that's 112.5 Terajoules (TJ) per MD point.
For further refference, the Nagasaki bomb explosion was 84 TJ.

This gives a standard Wilks' Laser pistol (1d6MD), an averege damage per shot of 4.7 times an atomic bomb.

But wait... there's more...

It's stated that 1MD = 100 SDC, so therefore the atomic bomb did about 75 SDC, yet it killed 22,000 people. Those guys really should have taken some physical skills or something. I mean isn't that why Ninjas and Superspies has all those body hardening techniques?

An extreme example? sure! but it just proves that, while you should apply common sense, trying to force it into making scientific sense just doesn't work. I will wajer both of my left nuts that Kevin holds no advanced science degrees. This is not an insult against him (he's obviously doing pretty well for himself), I'm just saying that when Rifts prints numbers, they're designed for game balance and cool storytelling, not technical accuracy.

First and foremost, your math is sloppy.
The bomb dropped on Hiroshim was the equivilant of 13 kilotons of TNT, so work from the SDC damage listed for dynamite (not exactly TNT, but closer than trying to work from freakin' magically created anti-matter).

Secondly, one of my pet peeves is when people throw physics and logic out the window because "it's just a game".
Just because it's a game doesn't mean that it has to have crappy cartoon physics that have little to no bearing on reality.
The rules are, in fact, supposed to simulate reality.
Unless you're playing TOON or something.

Yes, some people go overboard with trying to figure out every minute detail of how physics works in Rifts.
But to imply that the game rules do not and should not make any sense is simply absurd.

[cornholioprime]

Rifts is a fun game with a great world. But you have to turn off any science circuits in your head to play it. ..

Makes it tough to play a Rogue Scientist...

Oh Lord!!!

I'd just LOVE to be "the fly on the Wall" in the same Room as Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking in the Rifts Universe!!!


Rifts' Albert E.: No matter how many times I do the math, in this Universe, E=Rubber Chicken, Squared.......


Rifts' Stephen H.:

Rifts' Albert E.: Maybe God really DOES play Dice with the Universe, after all.......

Rifts' Stephen H.:

[Braden Campbell]

A railgun would throw out its slugs with a force equal to 9Mj...

"THERE's ya science!"

[Marrowlight]

Rifts is a fun game with a great world. But you have to turn off any science circuits in your head to play it. ..

Makes it tough to play a Rogue Scientist...

Oh Lord!!!

I'd just LOVE to be "the fly on the Wall" in the same Room as Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking in the Rifts Universe!!!


Rifts' Albert E.: No matter how many times I do the math, in this Universe, E=Rubber Chicken, Squared.......


Rifts' Stephen H.:

Rifts' Albert E.: Maybe God really DOES play Dice with the Universe, after all.......

Rifts' Stephen H.:

Y'know, as fun as Erin Tarn can be....wow, now that you mention it a Rogue Scientist perspective on Rifts Earth would be really, really cool.

[Jesterzzn]

An extreme example? sure! but it just proves that, while you should apply common sense, trying to force it into making scientific sense just doesn't work. I will wajer both of my left nuts that Kevin holds no advanced science degrees. This is not an insult against him (he's obviously doing pretty well for himself), I'm just saying that when Rifts prints numbers, they're designed for game balance and cool storytelling, not technical accuracy.

This I agree with 100%.

Secondly, one of my pet peeves is when people throw physics and logic out the window because "it's just a game".

I don't think that was what he is saying.

Makes it tough to play a Rogue Scientist...

Only if you turn the character's off too. I almost exclusively play rogue scientists, and my real degree is in bio-chemistry. If I wanted to, I could bog every game down with various this and that details, but it wouldn't be fun for anyone but me.

[Killer Cyborg]

... my point here:
Use science all you want. Use it as much as possible. But if there's some discrepancy between different books or between the books and reality, don't let it mess up your fun. Either go with the book ruling, or make your own house-rule on the effect if you know enough about the subject.

Better phrased. Gotcha.

Yes, I agree saying "it's just a game" is a cop-out answer that's shouldn't have to be used. But maybe I could phrase this another way:
For over 20 years, Palladium Books couldn't be bothered to check their own spelling. Do you really expect their math to always add up?

I don't expect it, but I sure would like it.

[glitterboy2098]

a few flaws:

1.) just because the anti-matter ball is softball sized, does not mean it has the same mass or density. so instead of .25 kilo's, it could be anywhere from a few nano-grams to several kilo's. heck, since it's magically suspended, it could several TONS, with a density approaching nuetronium.

2.) keep in mind for your anti-matter example that the energy yeild you calculated is Total yeild, assuming a 100% efficency rate on matter to energy conversion.

a real explosion would be lower.

plus, that energy will be released not as a point, but as a radiating shere, of which only a small area will be able to hit the target.




if you assume a much denser sphere, your data changes dramatically.

a house built on foundations of sand quickly falls.

[Jesterzzn]

I think we (by which I mean most of us) can forgive stuff like energy ratings of damage being skewed - those are sophisticated numbers to play with, but some degree of consistancy in scaling would at least be nice.

You mean like tanks doing more damage than a footman's rifle?

[TechnoGothic]

One thing that erks me is :

Heat and Fire Damages.
MDC materials are imperious to normal heat and fires....check.

201 degrees F* starts to inflict MD to MD Armors.

[Jesterzzn]

One thing that erks me is :

Heat and Fire Damages.
MDC materials are imperious to normal heat and fires....check.

201 degrees F* starts to inflict MD to MD Armors.

I think that is supposed to be centigrade. 201 F isn't hot enough to cook chicken.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Theres also that idea that a MD laser would red-mist an SDC character. If you hit them somewhere non-vital, it would more realistically burn a nice, clean, cauterised hole straight through them (painfull yes, fatal no unless you go into shock) and several people and SDC structures behind them. You'ld really be better off with a bullter that fragments causeing damage to the surrounding tissue and bleeding. Of course, the het from the laser may cook a fair bit of surrounding tissue too.

And now I'm arguing with myself.

actually Dead Boy came up with a good calculation that ever 1 MD of a laser blast will instantly vaporise 1 kilogram of water. considering how much water is in the human body, and hydroelastic shock, 1d6 MD is almost certaintly leathal, but there is a small chance for survival IF medical treatment is immediate and drastic.

[RainOfSteel]

Rifts is a fun game with a great world. But you have to turn off any science circuits in your head to play it. People have a habit of seeing a somewhat scientific term in Rifts, and then wondering how to explain it, or what it really means.

However, when Rifts does make sense, it's coolness factor goes up by about 1d6 x 100%.

Here's what it really means: the designers thought it sounded cool.
That's all it means.

I am hoping that the level of work put into these products exceeds that level you are suggesting here. Yes, I am certainly hoping. Especially when I am spending my dollars on them. (My hopes are not always met, but they are there.)

This gives a standard Wilks' Laser pistol (1d6MD), an averege damage per shot of 4.7 times an atomic bomb.

What? How did you make that leap?

[Killer Cyborg]

One thing that erks me is :

Heat and Fire Damages.
MDC materials are imperious to normal heat and fires....check.

201 degrees F* starts to inflict MD to MD Armors.

I think that is supposed to be centigrade. 201 F isn't hot enough to cook chicken.

It is Celcius (Centigrade), which is a LOT hotter.

In any case, it isn't that the armor takes damage after that point; it's that the armor no longer protects the wearer from the heat.

[Gomen_Nagai]

i should start a petition to get a support group for Physics Gamers who want to play games that make sense, then take away all their palladium books for some gurps books instead.. and mandate they turn in their scientific Calendars and Get themselves into Therapy.. and Make them use Abacuses.

[dark brandon]

I think Jesterzz understood what I was meaning by this, Cyborg. I love science, I hold bachelors in chemistry and biomedical engineering, I read Hawking and Feynman for fun, and I'm currently working on my PhD.

1.) just because the anti-matter ball is softball sized, does not mean it has the same mass or density. so instead of .25 kilo's, it could be anywhere from a few nano-grams to several kilo's. heck, since it's magically suspended, it could several TONS, with a density approaching nuetronium.

2.) keep in mind for your anti-matter example that the energy yeild you calculated is Total yeild, assuming a 100% efficency rate on matter to energy conversion.

a real explosion would be lower.

plus, that energy will be released not as a point, but as a radiating shere, of which only a small area will be able to hit the target.

What? How did you make that leap?

Just curious glitterboy2098 and Rainofsteel, what kind of degrees do you have and what are they in? Mearly curious as it seems like a debate is about to start up and I'd like to know where you stand education wise in comparison to trypsin.

I am hoping that the level of work put into these products exceeds that level you are suggesting here. Yes, I am certainly hoping. Especially when I am spending my dollars on them. (My hopes are not always met, but they are there.)

Probably not. I think the level of research comes from watching a show or reading a fantasy book and thinking "Wow, that would be rad". Kinda like a "flux Capacitor", sounds cool, but IIRC doesn't really mean or do anything.

[dark brandon]

i should start a petition to get a support group for Physics Gamers who want to play games that make sense, then take away all their palladium books for some gurps books instead.. and mandate they turn in their scientific Calendars and Get themselves into Therapy.. and Make them use Abacuses.

They should just get together and make a game.

"OK first rule...what equation will we use to explain Gravity?"

[Qev]

*shrug* Me, I just like to nitpick bad science because it's amusing. Like the whole laser-recoil thing, it's sort of a "what-if I applied real science to these crazy weapons" game. Well, that, and I like science fiction a bit more than I like science fantasy... but only a bit more.

Btw 200 deg C isn't even hot enough to burn paper.

Also, that quarter-kilogram chunk of antimatter, fully reacted with matter, spits out roughly 10.7 megatonnes of energy.

[Qev]

Wow... You guys are all such geeks...

And it's totally awesome. Thanks for being engaged and thoughtful-

Now here's an idea- Think about ideas like Resonance and building a weapon based on feedback, where it damages only electrical systems- like an EMP blast, but concentrated. How might that work?

That's called a HERF gun. Google it.

[RainOfSteel]

Probably not. I think the level of research comes from watching a show or reading a fantasy book and thinking "Wow, that would be rad". Kinda like a "flux Capacitor", sounds cool, but IIRC doesn't really mean or do anything.

That's not precisely what I meant. You stated, on Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:15 pm, that the authors of Madhaven did "a great amount of research" to produce the book. That is what I meant. Of course, I hope that some research was done on all matters pertaining to the book, not just on New York.

[TechnoGothic]

One thing that erks me is :

Heat and Fire Damages.
MDC materials are imperious to normal heat and fires....check.

201 degrees F* starts to inflict MD to MD Armors.

I think that is supposed to be centigrade. 201 F isn't hot enough to cook chicken.

It is Celcius (Centigrade), which is a LOT hotter.

In any case, it isn't that the armor takes damage after that point; it's that the armor no longer protects the wearer from the heat.

All my books list "Temperatures greater than 200*F"
Its in my CWC for CS-Armor, RUE, Splicers...

I'm going to make it 2,000*F instead

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

I hope that some research was done on all matters pertaining to the book, not just on New York.

yes we did all kinds of research on the scientific standpoints of ghosts and mystic knights. I guarantee that the ghosts and mystic knights are realistic and scientifically accurate.

[TechnoGothic]

I hope that some research was done on all matters pertaining to the book, not just on New York.

yes we did all kinds of research on the scientific standpoints of ghosts and mystic knights. I guarantee that the ghosts and mystic knights are realistic and scientifically accurate.

Unsold me as soon as we found out about Mystic Knights.
One of the worst OCCs ever

[Gomen_Nagai]

i should start a petition to get a support group for Physics Gamers who want to play games that make sense,

Check out Shadowrun. All systems fall apart under a harsh enough light, but they did alot of research in their books, and the SR system holds up to a really decent level. But the tradeoff for that is that it's ALOT more complex than Rifts, in the rules structure, and what you need to know to function on any kind of technical level in that world.
Rifts' trades technical accuracy for simplicity, and that's fine.

I play Shadowrun and I prefer Rifts over it, Shadowrun has some of the silliest loop holes in it...
as for what someone else said about what rule should we use to define gravity... lol..
I can just imagine the Chalk boards needed for that one

[dark brandon]

I hope that some research was done on all matters pertaining to the book, not just on New York.

yes we did all kinds of research on the scientific standpoints of ghosts and mystic knights. I guarantee that the ghosts and mystic knights are realistic and scientifically accurate.

Unsold me as soon as we found out about Mystic Knights.
One of the worst OCCs ever

THere more in the book than just mystic knights, including unique ghosts, some very RAD OCC's, and Madhaven itself. I would suggest looking through the book before saying "unsold". You may find yourself liking it. In fact, if you play BTS2, it might be worth a look just for the ghosts themselves.

[Killer Cyborg]

One thing that erks me is :

Heat and Fire Damages.
MDC materials are imperious to normal heat and fires....check.

201 degrees F* starts to inflict MD to MD Armors.

I think that is supposed to be centigrade. 201 F isn't hot enough to cook chicken.

It is Celcius (Centigrade), which is a LOT hotter.

In any case, it isn't that the armor takes damage after that point; it's that the armor no longer protects the wearer from the heat.

All my books list "Temperatures greater than 200*F"
Its in my CWC for CS-Armor, RUE, Splicers...

You're wrong.
What the book says is (RUE 267):
"Insulated, high temperature resistant shielding for up to 200 degrees centigrade."

It also says "Normal fires do no damage. Nuclear, plasma, and magic fires do full damage.

The insulation value of the armor doesn't refer to the point at which the armor takes damage, it refers to the exten that the armor can protect the pilot.

[Killer Cyborg]

i should start a petition to get a support group for Physics Gamers who want to play games that make sense, then take away all their palladium books for some gurps books instead.. and mandate they turn in their scientific Calendars and Get themselves into Therapy.. and Make them use Abacuses.

They should just get together and make a game.

"OK first rule...what equation will we use to explain Gravity?"

I'd love to see it, really.
If I knew more about physics, that's what I'd do for my own game.

[KLM]

Trying to go deep into physics, especially calculating damage
and energy for spells is ridiculous.
Add to it a "hero friendly kevinism", where it is possible to
survive a direct hit from an MBT in body armor and it is completely
out of reason.

Now, I am not propagating to calculate damage from terminal
energy transfer, or something with similar seriousness.

What I DO propagate is to create a system, where
weapons do more realistic damage if compared to each other.

SRUN came up - their damage system is simple and elegant.
Yet, they have some difficulties, like a heavy machine gun
doing the same damage as a shotgun slug, or heavy handguns
doing more damage then assault rifles (single shot both
comparisons)

Adios
KLM

[dark brandon]

What the book says is (RUE 267):
"Insulated, high temperature resistant shielding for up to 200 degrees centigrade."

It also says "Normal fires do no damage. Nuclear, plasma, and magic fires do full damage.

The insulation value of the armor doesn't refer to the point at which the armor takes damage, it refers to the exten that the armor can protect the pilot.

That doesn't make sense- Paper and books burn at 451 degrees Fahrenheit, trees at a much higher temp, yet 200 degree Celsius is only 392 degree fahrenheit (Mutiply by 1.8 and add 32)

are you trying to use RL physics to explain the game? For shame!

[Killer Cyborg]

What the book says is (RUE 267):
"Insulated, high temperature resistant shielding for up to 200 degrees centigrade."

It also says "Normal fires do no damage. Nuclear, plasma, and magic fires do full damage.

The insulation value of the armor doesn't refer to the point at which the armor takes damage, it refers to the exten that the armor can protect the pilot.

That doesn't make sense- Paper and books burn at 451 degrees Fahrenheit, trees at a much higher temp, yet 200 degree Celsius is only 392 degree fahrenheit (Mutiply by 1.8 and add 32)

It still makes sense.
It's not saying that holding a match to the armor will burn the person inside, it's sayind that when the armor gets heated to 200+ degrees celcius then the person inside will start feeling the effects.
A single match won't do this, and neither will a normal fire unless the armored person is standing in the fire for quite a while.
If you don't think that 200 degrees celcius is hot enough to affect people, try hanging out in a 100 degrees celcius sauna or hot-tub for a while.

[KLM]

Yeah, it is the question is "how much"...

It is clear, that one wearing an EBA can walk
across a burning building, without inconvenience
(except the building topples on him).

On the other hand, what if he spends minutes
in that building, or covered with napalm?

Adios
KLM

[Killer Cyborg]

I think 200 centrigrade is plenty hot, that's why I'm wondering why normal fires do nothing when they are hotter than 200 celcius, the prescribed temperature of starting to take damage.

Because you are mistakenly combining two different pieces of information into a false concept.

The armor is impervious to normal fires.
The wearer starts sufferering from the effects of heat beyond 200 degrees.

[Killer Cyborg]

Yeah, it is the question is "how much"...

It is clear, that one wearing an EBA can walk
across a burning building, without inconvenience
(except the building topples on him).

On the other hand, what if he spends minutes
in that building, or covered with napalm?

Adios
KLM

That seems to be up to the GM.
Anybody know how to determine how quickly things heat up when they're on fire?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Yeah, it is the question is "how much"...

It is clear, that one wearing an EBA can walk
across a burning building, without inconvenience
(except the building topples on him).

On the other hand, what if he spends minutes
in that building, or covered with napalm?

Adios
KLM

That seems to be up to the GM.
Anybody know how to determine how quickly things heat up when they're on fire?

that depends on the substance. every molecular structure has a distinct rate at which heat is transfered.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ok, KLM & Killer Cyborg, I don't want to interrupt you here, but I'd like to humbly point to the title of this thread.

I don't really mind the debate, but debating the thermal conductivity of MDC armor in a thread about how you shouldn't worry about the physics of Rifts is kinda funny.

We can take it to another thread if you like, of course.

It seems a bit on topic to me because I'm not "trying to make Rifts make sense"; I'm pointing out that it already does.

[RainOfSteel]

I hope that some research was done on all matters pertaining to the book, not just on New York.

yes we did all kinds of research on the scientific standpoints of ghosts and mystic knights. I guarantee that the ghosts and mystic knights are realistic and scientifically accurate.

Wow, ghosts and mystic knights are techno-wizardric?

[KLM]

Sorry, but IMO the world (setting, Megaverse, whatever) is
just too good to be abandoned because of a bugridden
"engine".
(Not that the metaplots are perfect... )

Adios
KLM

[RainOfSteel]

I think 200 centrigrade is plenty hot, that's why I'm wondering why normal fires do nothing when they are hotter than 200 celcius, the prescribed temperature of starting to take damage.

Because you are mistakenly combining two different pieces of information into a false concept.

The armor is impervious to normal fires.
The wearer starts sufferering from the effects of heat beyond 200 degrees.

Does it say anywhere, to your recollection, how much damage the occupant takes?

[RainOfSteel]

Sorry, but IMO the world (setting, Megaverse, whatever) is
just too good to be abandoned because of a bugridden
"engine".
(Not that the metaplots are perfect... )

Oh, I agree completely.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think 200 centrigrade is plenty hot, that's why I'm wondering why normal fires do nothing when they are hotter than 200 celcius, the prescribed temperature of starting to take damage.

Because you are mistakenly combining two different pieces of information into a false concept.

The armor is impervious to normal fires.
The wearer starts sufferering from the effects of heat beyond 200 degrees.

Does it say anywhere, to your recollection, how much damage the occupant takes?

Nope.
Not in Rifts, at least.

In HU2, p. 242, it lists the effects for various temperatures.
290-400 degrees Fahrenheit mean effective blindness and difficulty breathing. 1d6 SDC per melee of exposure to the heat and an 80% chance of passing out after 30 seconds, and the penalties increase (-70% to all skills, for one).
3+ minutes will cause burns on the skin (2d6 SDC damage per melee).
Longer than 10 minutes and the character dies.

All of that is assuming that the character is in that kind of heat without any protective gear, but I think that the effects would be about the same for once the insulation value of the gear is defeated.

[Gomen_Nagai]

What the book says is (RUE 267):
"Insulated, high temperature resistant shielding for up to 200 degrees centigrade."

It also says "Normal fires do no damage. Nuclear, plasma, and magic fires do full damage.

The insulation value of the armor doesn't refer to the point at which the armor takes damage, it refers to the exten that the armor can protect the pilot.

That doesn't make sense- Paper and books burn at 451 degrees Fahrenheit, trees at a much higher temp, yet 200 degree Celsius is only 392 degree fahrenheit (Mutiply by 1.8 and add 32)

are you trying to use RL physics to explain the game? For shame!

Flesh burns120* Farenheit.. hence death by hot water.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think 200 centrigrade is plenty hot, that's why I'm wondering why normal fires do nothing when they are hotter than 200 celcius, the prescribed temperature of starting to take damage.

Because you are mistakenly combining two different pieces of information into a false concept.

The armor is impervious to normal fires.
The wearer starts sufferering from the effects of heat beyond 200 degrees.

Does it say anywhere, to your recollection, how much damage the occupant takes?

Nope.
Not in Rifts, at least.

In HU2, p. 242, it lists the effects for various temperatures.
290-400 degrees Fahrenheit mean effective blindness and difficulty breathing. 1d6 SDC per melee of exposure to the heat and an 80% chance of passing out after 30 seconds, and the penalties increase (-70% to all skills, for one).
3+ minutes will cause burns on the skin (2d6 SDC damage per melee).
Longer than 10 minutes and the character dies.

All of that is assuming that the character is in that kind of heat without any protective gear, but I think that the effects would be about the same for once the insulation value of the gear is defeated.

not quite. the inside of an EBA sealed armor is "room" temprature.

until the heat sheilding is passed 0 goes though.

so only ever 1 degree OVER the sheilding would go though.

so you'd need 400 degrees to get the effects of 200 degrees.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think 200 centrigrade is plenty hot, that's why I'm wondering why normal fires do nothing when they are hotter than 200 celcius, the prescribed temperature of starting to take damage.

Because you are mistakenly combining two different pieces of information into a false concept.

The armor is impervious to normal fires.
The wearer starts sufferering from the effects of heat beyond 200 degrees.

Does it say anywhere, to your recollection, how much damage the occupant takes?

Nope.
Not in Rifts, at least.

In HU2, p. 242, it lists the effects for various temperatures.
290-400 degrees Fahrenheit mean effective blindness and difficulty breathing. 1d6 SDC per melee of exposure to the heat and an 80% chance of passing out after 30 seconds, and the penalties increase (-70% to all skills, for one).
3+ minutes will cause burns on the skin (2d6 SDC damage per melee).
Longer than 10 minutes and the character dies.

All of that is assuming that the character is in that kind of heat without any protective gear, but I think that the effects would be about the same for once the insulation value of the gear is defeated.

not quite. the inside of an EBA sealed armor is "room" temprature.

until the heat sheilding is passed 0 goes though.

so only ever 1 degree OVER the sheilding would go though.

so you'd need 400 degrees to get the effects of 200 degrees.

Huh. Maybe.
That would depend on how the heat shielding is overcome. I was assuming that when it was overcome, that the internal A/C would quit working.
But you may be right.

[Qev]

Flesh burns120* Farenheit.. hence death by hot water.

Peculiarly enough, an unprotected human being can survive for approximately 30 minutes at 100 degrees Centigrade in air with 0% humidity. At 100% humidity, this time drops to five minutes.

[RainOfSteel]

Flesh burns120* Farenheit.. hence death by hot water.

Peculiarly enough, an unprotected human being can survive for approximately 30 minutes at 100 degrees Centigrade in air with 0% humidity. At 100% humidity, this time drops to five minutes.

But that doesn't really matter.

• Ordinary human characters should be able to jump into water at 1000 Celsius and swim around happily.
• Ordinary toy water guns should be able to split open a Glitterboy with one shot at a range of five miles with automatic hits.
• When two guns are built at the same relative technology level, where one is the size of a hunting rifle and one is the size of a WWI railway cannon, both will do exactly the same amount of damage, but the bigger gun will have slightly greater range.
• Since magic exists, nothing needs to be consistent.

All brought to you because Rifts doesn't need to make sense.

[Vrykolas2k]

I hope that some research was done on all matters pertaining to the book, not just on New York.

yes we did all kinds of research on the scientific standpoints of ghosts and mystic knights. I guarantee that the ghosts and mystic knights are realistic and scientifically accurate.

Unsold me as soon as we found out about Mystic Knights.
One of the worst OCCs ever

I like the Mystic Knight OCC.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

i want someone to do the science for zombies. explain how zombies exist with science. and demons. and cyber-knights. c'mon, its like soooo important.