Cybernetics and Psionics

[The Galactus Kid]

I checked R:UE and skimmed the bionic sourcebook last night and I can't seem to find the information I'm looking for. What is the effect the cybernetics has on psychics? Partial conversion borgs just have their ISP halved, but what if I just want three or four cybernetic implants and no bionics? I know this is out there somewhere, I just can't find it.

[The Galactus Kid]

That doesn't make sense according to the more recent Ultimate edition rules where the partial conversion only reduces ISP by half. Hmmm...

[Dog_O_War]

That doesn't make sense according to the more recent Ultimate edition rules where the partial conversion only reduces ISP by half. Hmmm...

The answer then is that there is no effect. That you can have a few implants without messing with psionics. And this makes sense too, as a crazy basically has a bunch of cybernetic implants that give him mind-powers.

[The Galactus Kid]

Hmmm...TO TEH EMAILZ!!! I'll get to the bottom of this.

[The Galactus Kid]

That bullet is talking about partial conversion borgs, which have significantly more implants and bionics than just 2 or 3. Not only that, but it only mentions halving the ISP and not damage, range, and duration, unless I'm misreading it.

[Dog_O_War]

I guess what I'm saying is that since the text in R:UE does not specifically contradict the text in the bionics sourcebook, they both can be applied.

It does though. Bionics are more invasive; partial reconstruction can be anything from an arm to the majority of your limbs and maybe an organ or three.
And this only halves your ISP.

Meanwhile the text in the bionics sourcebook states that 2-3, or "a hand, one eye, and perhaps breast-implants" cuts your ISP in half and makes your powers suck.
That seems like a contradiction in texts to me.

[The Galactus Kid]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said.

[Blight]

of course is ya want you can get PSI implants to counter act the isp reduction. I think the PSI booster implant doubles the ISP. One sec I'll check.. Nope i was wrong 4d6 is added to isp but it gives 1d4 extra powers and ranges and duration 20% and damages increased by 1d6 point.
This would be awesome for a partial conversion borg that was a major or minor Psionic. You would still have the negatives but this would really go a long way toward making up for it.

[Giant2005]

I have wondered that same question but mostly with respect to the Psionic Cybernetics from Psyscape.
Do they limit your Psionic powers while boosting them at the same time?

Or are they exempt to any Psionic limitations?

[The Galactus Kid]

the character is in russia and has no access to the psi-implants.

[rat_bastard]

If I was to re-write the palladium system, I would Assign every implant an ISP cost, for every implant you lose a permanent amount of ISP, and once you lost half your total all psionic powers would be half as effective and twice as expensive, once you got to 3/4 you would lose all psionics.

Tiny implants like id implants would have a cost of 0-4 isp

limbs could cost 30-60

Bio systems would have half normal ISP cost.

[AlanGunhouse]

and would you hasve a similar effect on PPE for mages? I know it says something about bionics and magic...

[rat_bastard]

and would you hasve a similar effect on PPE for mages? I know it says something about bionics and magic...

Similar, far more severe.

[Library Ogre]

If I was to re-write the palladium system, I would Assign every implant an ISP cost, for every implant you lose a permanent amount of ISP, and once you lost half your total all psionic powers would be half as effective and twice as expensive, once you got to 3/4 you would lose all psionics.

Tiny implants like id implants would have a cost of 0-4 isp

limbs could cost 30-60

Bio systems would have half normal ISP cost.

I don't like that system, because it means that minor psychics can have far less cybernetics than a major or master.

What I might go with instead was an ME cost (not actually subtracted, but a limit; also allows for cyberpunkish cyberpsychosis), or an ISP % reduction. If you go with each item causing a % reduction in ISP and PPE, then everyone has the exact same limit, but those with very large ISP/PPE totals would be take a bigger numerical hit for items, but it wouldn't eat a minor psychic's ISP in one gulp.

[Dog_O_War]

If I was to re-write the palladium system, I would Assign every implant an ISP cost, for every implant you lose a permanent amount of ISP, and once you lost half your total all psionic powers would be half as effective and twice as expensive, once you got to 3/4 you would lose all psionics.

Tiny implants like id implants would have a cost of 0-4 isp

limbs could cost 30-60

Bio systems would have half normal ISP cost.

I don't like that system, because it means that minor psychics can have far less cybernetics than a major or master.

What I might go with instead was an ME cost (not actually subtracted, but a limit; also allows for cyberpunkish cyberpsychosis), or an ISP % reduction. If you go with each item causing a % reduction in ISP and PPE, then everyone has the exact same limit, but those with very large ISP/PPE totals would be take a bigger numerical hit for items, but it wouldn't eat a minor psychic's ISP in one gulp.

Maybe instead a system where you lose powers from most powerful to least (measured in how much ISP they cost), while simultaineously lose a % based on an arbitrary scale.
Something like "you can have 9 implants, but each implant costs you 10% of your ISP. At the 10th, all ISP is lost" and then you can assess a cost to certain implants. An arm (for instance) is like 3 implants for cybernetic, or 4 implants for bionic.
That said, there are certain psychic-boosting implants (MOM implants come to mind) that are an effective "0" implant cost. All instances where you would gain or lose ISP would be based on your original total.

That's if I was doing it...

[Library Ogre]

Maybe instead a system where you lose powers from most powerful to least (measured in how much ISP they cost), while simultaineously lose a % based on an arbitrary scale.
Something like "you can have 9 implants, but each implant costs you 10% of your ISP. At the 10th, all ISP is lost" and then you can assess a cost to certain implants. An arm (for instance) is like 3 implants for cybernetic, or 4 implants for bionic.
That said, there are certain psychic-boosting implants (MOM implants come to mind) that are an effective "0" implant cost. All instances where you would gain or lose ISP would be based on your original total.

That's if I was doing it...

It's a simple system, but it lacks some of the granularity I'd like. Some items shouldn't carry much impact, while others should carry more.

[Dog_O_War]

Maybe instead a system where you lose powers from most powerful to least (measured in how much ISP they cost), while simultaineously lose a % based on an arbitrary scale.
Something like "you can have 9 implants, but each implant costs you 10% of your ISP. At the 10th, all ISP is lost" and then you can assess a cost to certain implants. An arm (for instance) is like 3 implants for cybernetic, or 4 implants for bionic.
That said, there are certain psychic-boosting implants (MOM implants come to mind) that are an effective "0" implant cost. All instances where you would gain or lose ISP would be based on your original total.

That's if I was doing it...

It's a simple system, but it lacks some of the granularity I'd like. Some items shouldn't carry much impact, while others should carry more.

I was hoping someone would bring that up; see, some items might count as 0.5 implants, possibly less (like getting a clock/calendar installed on your eye might be worth 0). Since you can easily convert the basic "1 implant is worth 10%" then it's easy to see that 0.5 would then cost 5%. The reverse of this is also possible, depending on the GM.
It's basically Shadowruns' system of doing implants on the magically apt.

[Library Ogre]

Maybe instead a system where you lose powers from most powerful to least (measured in how much ISP they cost), while simultaineously lose a % based on an arbitrary scale.
Something like "you can have 9 implants, but each implant costs you 10% of your ISP. At the 10th, all ISP is lost" and then you can assess a cost to certain implants. An arm (for instance) is like 3 implants for cybernetic, or 4 implants for bionic.
That said, there are certain psychic-boosting implants (MOM implants come to mind) that are an effective "0" implant cost. All instances where you would gain or lose ISP would be based on your original total.

That's if I was doing it...

It's a simple system, but it lacks some of the granularity I'd like. Some items shouldn't carry much impact, while others should carry more.

I was hoping someone would bring that up; see, some items might count as 0.5 implants, possibly less (like getting a clock/calendar installed on your eye might be worth 0). Since you can easily convert the basic "1 implant is worth 10%" then it's easy to see that 0.5 would then cost 5%. The reverse of this is also possible, depending on the GM.
It's basically Shadowruns' system of doing implants on the magically apt.

Ok, if we're going that way, why just go with my system of assigning percentages to everything, with 10% being a baseline? Why add the extra layer of "an implant means 10% of your ISP/PPE, and some things count as more or less than one implant", instead of just saying "This implant is 10%. That one is 5% That one is 30%." My method can be taken care of with an extra line in the description, whereas yours requires the extra line, and another few lines explaining the implant system.

[Dog_O_War]

Ok, if we're going that way, why just go with my system of assigning percentages to everything, with 10% being a baseline? Why add the extra layer of "an implant means 10% of your ISP/PPE, and some things count as more or less than one implant", instead of just saying "This implant is 10%. That one is 5% That one is 30%." My method can be taken care of with an extra line in the description, whereas yours requires the extra line, and another few lines explaining the implant system.

Because even a 0.1 implant would destroy all PPE and magical ability, or rather inhibit it so that while the implant is installed, no magic works.

That and you still lose a power on a "/per implant" basis. There is still that cost. One implant at 0.5 means you lose 5% ISP, all magical ability, and one power, starting at the top.

[Library Ogre]

Ok, if we're going that way, why just go with my system of assigning percentages to everything, with 10% being a baseline? Why add the extra layer of "an implant means 10% of your ISP/PPE, and some things count as more or less than one implant", instead of just saying "This implant is 10%. That one is 5% That one is 30%." My method can be taken care of with an extra line in the description, whereas yours requires the extra line, and another few lines explaining the implant system.

Because even a 0.1 implant would destroy all PPE and magical ability, or rather inhibit it so that while the implant is installed, no magic works.

That and you still lose a power on a "/per implant" basis. There is still that cost. One implant at 0.5 means you lose 5% ISP, all magical ability, and one power, starting at the top.

That's helaciously harsh, compared to the current rules. Current rules (as I remember them) are that you are fine until 3-4 implants, then you lose everything. No stepped loss of psychic powers, just a flat out disablement at 3-4.

[Dog_O_War]

Ok, if we're going that way, why just go with my system of assigning percentages to everything, with 10% being a baseline? Why add the extra layer of "an implant means 10% of your ISP/PPE, and some things count as more or less than one implant", instead of just saying "This implant is 10%. That one is 5% That one is 30%." My method can be taken care of with an extra line in the description, whereas yours requires the extra line, and another few lines explaining the implant system.

Because even a 0.1 implant would destroy all PPE and magical ability, or rather inhibit it so that while the implant is installed, no magic works.

That and you still lose a power on a "/per implant" basis. There is still that cost. One implant at 0.5 means you lose 5% ISP, all magical ability, and one power, starting at the top.

That's helaciously harsh, compared to the current rules. Current rules (as I remember them) are that you are fine until 3-4 implants, then you lose everything. No stepped loss of psychic powers, just a flat out disablement at 3-4.

Yes, it does seem that way.
It offers a happy medium though; a guy with 10 powers can afford to have 5-6 implants without totally destroying his potential. This means that if he got badly messed up in a combat and required several cyber-organs, he wouldn't totally lose out for that eye, hand, lung, and kidney he just got.