Enemy NPC/pilots question

[daddystabz]

I am just getting ready to start my own Robotech game, likely to be held during the Shadow Chronicles period and am wondering about how you all handle enemy NPCs and pilots. Did the Shadow Chronicles book contain a method to create Invid or Haydonite NPCs? What about their pilots? How do you create NPCs for use inside the enemy mecha? It seems to me that if you simply plug in the mecha stats without pilot stats inside them, enhancing their strike/parry/dodge bonuses considerably the way PCs do inside their mecha, then the enemy will be severely underpowered against the players.

Any ideas here?

[Tiree]

They don't have true stats for NPC's. What they have are some quick roll stats that can be used. I would use your best judgment, and decide on what you would like. Probably make them akin to a Battloid Specialist and call it good.

[daddystabz]

They have quick roll stats for enemy NPCs such as the Invid and the Haydonites? Where are these located? I did not see them anywhere. See what I'm thinking is that in the book all I see are stats for their mecha and no generic Invid or Haydonite pilot stats that would enhance the fighting prowess of the mecha through strike/parry/dodge bonuses, etc. Veritech pilots due to their stats, skills, and things like Mecha Combat Elite Training get lots of bonuses to their to strike/parry/dodge/roll, etc. but I see nothing to simulate this on the enemy side. How do you all deal with this?

I had thought about giving the enemy mecha generic bonuses based roughly on the average bonuses of the PC pilots to strike/parry/dodge/roll, etc. to make them comparable without having to actually roll NPC baddy pilot generic templates. What do you all think?

[ShadowLogan]

They have quick roll stats for enemy NPCs such as the Invid and the Haydonites? Where are these located? I did not see them anywhere. See what I'm thinking is that in the book all I see are stats for their mecha and no generic Invid or Haydonite pilot stats that would enhance the fighting prowess of the mecha through strike/parry/dodge bonuses, etc. Veritech pilots due to their stats, skills, and things like Mecha Combat Elite Training get lots of bonuses to their to strike/parry/dodge/roll, etc. but I see nothing to simulate this on the enemy side. How do you all deal with this?

I had thought about giving the enemy mecha generic bonuses based roughly on the average bonuses of the PC pilots to strike/parry/dodge/roll, etc. to make them comparable without having to actually roll NPC baddy pilot generic templates. What do you all think?

The Invid are dependent on their mecha and as such their pilot stats and bonuses are taken into consideration. They don't list the attributes and skills, but they do list the bonuses for the pilot inside their mecha. The only exceptions to this are the human-form Invid piloting the Invid Commander and Invid Overlord units, where attributes rolls are listed in the HTH section. Skills are missing, and the use of the Battloid Ace OCC seem resonable. Ariel is described as a 2nd level Invid, so there might be an OCC planned.

Haydonites pilot stats/bonus where left out of the manga-size (not sure about the regular size). Treat them as clones of Janice then? Ignoring the fact the bodies don't match, so no PS and PB (reduced).

[daddystabz]

I understand that the invid for the most part are part of their mecha......invid and machine in one but looking at their bonuses to strike and parry/dodge, etc. they seem extremely low compared to the bonuses my PC has. I'm not sure these guys could effectively hit with their low strike bonus in comparison to the large dodge/parry bonuses the PCs are going to have. It seemed almost like the bonuses I saw on most of the invid mecha were similar to the specific weaponry bonuses that veritech pilots get for using certain weapons like the EU-11 and not for the pilot's skill so much.

I have a lvl 5 character I rolled that is an Alpha Pilot and he has +9 to strike in his Alpha in melee, +7 to strike in the Alpha with ranged weapons, +9 to strike with missiles, +13 to parry, +14 to dodge on ground or +16 to dodge in air, +6 to pull punch, +5 to roll with impact, and +4 to disarm. These bonuses seem incredibly huge compared to the paltry ones the invid seem to have inherent in their stats. How would they really compete?

[ShadowLogan]

I understand that the invid for the most part are part of their mecha......invid and machine in one but looking at their bonuses to strike and parry/dodge, etc. they seem extremely low compared to the bonuses my PC has. I'm not sure these guys could effectively hit with their low strike bonus in comparison to the large dodge/parry bonuses the PCs are going to have. It seemed almost like the bonuses I saw on most of the invid mecha were similar to the specific weaponry bonuses that veritech pilots get for using certain weapons like the EU-11 and not for the pilot's skill so much.

Are you factoring in the Protoculture Targeting Bonuses? Those apply when the target is using PC, but they still help.

They do list Skills of Note under the individual Invid mecha's stat block, and do not seem to have any combat skills listed (or piloting) as being note worthy. These are skills of note and should not be regarded as a complete listing of skills, so a GM can add to them.

Looking at the 1st Ed. RPG the Invid do not seem to have very high attribute scores to begin with. So it all comes down to skills and abilities for bonuses if those scores still apply with 2nd Ed. 1st Ed. also had such a difference between combat bonuses.

Remember though, not all attacks are parryable, and dodging does result in the loss of their next available attack. Dodging does take penalties based on range and type of attack. (p. 227 and 241)

[Tiree]

Daddystabz can you show me how you got your bonuses?

Something doesn't look right for Ranged Combat and Missiles.

[Wildfire]

here is a big thing to remeber about the Invid they swarm you. so just because they only have +5 and you have +9 20 on 1 makes this pretty killable if your on the recieving end and you have not blasted them with missles.

[daddystabz]

My bonuses are high due to me having a 25 PS (+5 to strike AND +5 parry and dodge right there), my mecha combat elite training, I also have the +2 to strike with any energy or projectile attack aptitude called Sure Shot (does not includes missiles), I also have boxing, HTH Expert, WP Heavy MD Weapons, Body Building and Weight Lifting, Weapon Systems (Heavy MD Weapons), WP Quickdraw, extra bonuses for fighting in space in an environmental suit for having Zero Gravity Combat, Athletics (General). I hope I didn't forget anything.

[daddystabz]

Remember though, not all attacks are parryable, and dodging does result in the loss of their next available attack. Dodging does take penalties based on range and type of attack. (p. 227 and 241)

Actually, I see no respective parry or dodge penalty at all, save for the -5 you take to dodge energy weapons and the fact that you cannot dodge missiles that are in a volley of 4 or more. Am I missing something here?

[daddystabz]

I'm assuming the +5 to strike I get from having a PS of 25 does not apply to missiles, right?

[Jefffar]

Well PS is for melee damage bonus, PP is for Strike/Parry ad Dodge.

Traditionally the PP Bonus to strike has not applied to missiles or guns.

[daddystabz]

I went back and went through my character with a fine tooth comb and found that I did indeed miscalculate some of my bonuses previously, mostly due to me being n00b with this game again. I have corrected them now. Does this look more correct to you?

Human
Attacks/Actions Per Melee Round: 6
Initiative: +3 / +4 (Zero G)
Strike Melee: +7 / +8 (Zero G)
Strike Ranged: +9 / +10 (Zero G)
Strike Missile: 0
Parry: +11 / +12 (Zero G)
Dodge: +11 / +12 (Zero G)
Pull Punch: +3 / +4 (Zero G)
Roll With Impact: +3
Disarm: +2 / +3 (Zero G)

Alpha
Attacks/Actions Per Melee Round: 8
Initiative: +5
Strike Melee: +11
Strike Ranged: +7 / +8 (Heavy M.D. Weapons)
Strike Missile: +1
Parry: +13
Dodge: +13 on ground / +15 (Air)
Pull Punch: +6
Roll With Impact: +5
Disarm: +4

The Human section are my bonuses outside my Alpha Veritech and the Alpha ones are my bonuses inside my mecha.

[daddystabz]

I just read under the ranged combat section that it says you do NOT get your Physical Prowess bonus when shooting a gun. Does this mean I lose my PP bonus whenever I shoot anything considered to be a gun? Anything from a handgun to a shotgun, rifle, energy weapon, pistol, etc? If this is indeed the case then I will lose 5 points of Strike bonus on my Ranged Strike.

[ShadowLogan]

Remember though, not all attacks are parryable, and dodging does result in the loss of their next available attack. Dodging does take penalties based on range and type of attack. (p. 227 and 241)

Actually, I see no respective parry or dodge penalty at all, save for the -5 you take to dodge energy weapons and the fact that you cannot dodge missiles that are in a volley of 4 or more. Am I missing something here?

On pg.227 (manga-size) it states that "Unless stated otherwise, missiles, bullets, rail gun bursts and energy blasts can NOT be parried. The character must dodge". This means that it is not always an option to parry these attacks and requires hardware that specifically mentions this to do so. In the past even if you could parry these attacks damage would be dealt to the location that was parried with and not the Main Body (the default target). Missiles when parried still do damage, but to a different location. Parrying only negates melee attacks, IIRC.

The -5 to dodge really negates nearly every REF Mecha's built in dodge bonus, and even turns it into a pentalty.

I just read under the ranged combat section that it says you do NOT get your Physical Prowess bonus when shooting a gun. Does this mean I lose my PP bonus whenever I shoot anything considered to be a gun? Anything from a handgun to a shotgun, rifle, energy weapon, pistol, etc? If this is indeed the case then I will lose 5 points of Strike bonus on my Ranged Strike.

That is correct as Jeffar mentioned previously. PP bonuses only apply to melee combat (fist, foot, sword, knife, staff, etc).

[daddystabz]

So my PP bonus is also not in effect when I'm in my mecha? If PP doesn't count when I'm in my mecha for Strike then that kind of devalues PP completely for me.

I guess PP is still important for me though because mine gives me a +5 to Parry/Dodge and that really comes in handy.

But does the PP bonus to strike still work inside my mecha for melee and does it work inside my mecha for ranged attacks (not counting missile attacks)? I am assuming that the Parry/Dodge bonus inherent in my PP bonus would still apply if I'm trying to dodge a ranged attack or does the parry/dodge bonus ONLY work vs. melee attacks also?

[Tiree]

Yeah they nerfed the rules for PP in Ranged Combat. I am sure if the Sharpshooting skill gets introduced, everyone will take that instead.

But yes, you should only get the following bonuses in Ranged Combat: WP Skill, Weapon Systems (only a +1) (and only in a vehicle), Your Aptitude (if any), and Weapon.

For Missiles this is a bit trickier, you get the bonus for the Missile which generally is a +0, +3, or +5. Plus your Weapon Systems...

But you do get your full PP bonus for Dodges, and the PP Bonus does add to Auto Dodge (which was missed in the TSC Rules, but I have added it in from Rifts UE)

[daddystabz]

But do I get the PP bonus to strike inside a mecha firing mecha weapons? And do I get the PP bonus to Parry/Dodge while inside a mecha?

[Tiree]

But do I get the PP bonus to strike inside a mecha firing mecha weapons? And do I get the PP bonus to Parry/Dodge while inside a mecha?

you get your PP Bonus to strike only for Mecha Melee Combat, other than that - No.

As for your Parry and Dodge - yes

[daddystabz]

Thanks.

This kind of sucks and makes my strike bonuses bite HARD. I assume the +2 to strike from HTH Expert only counts for melee combat, right? hehe.

If so, these are my new bonuses:

Human
Attacks/Actions Per Melee Round: 6
Initiative: +3 / +4 (Zero G)
Strike Melee: +7 / +8 (Zero G)
Strike Ranged: +2 / +3 (Zero G)
Strike Missile: 0
Parry: +11 / +12 (Zero G)
Dodge: +11 / +12 (Zero G)
Pull Punch: +3 / +4 (Zero G)
Roll With Impact: +3
Disarm: +2 / +3 (Zero G)

Alpha
Attacks/Actions Per Melee Round: 8
Initiative: +5
Strike Melee: +9
Strike Ranged: +4 / +5 (Heavy M.D. Weapons)
Strike Missile: +1
Parry: +13
Dodge: +13 on ground / +15 (Air)
Pull Punch: +6
Roll With Impact: +5
Disarm: +4

Note: Human is me out of my mecha and Alpha is me inside my mecha.

[Tiree]

This kind of sucks and makes my strike bonuses bite HARD. I assume the +2 to strike from HTH Expert only counts for melee combat, right? hehe.

Pretty much. It has taken me time to get used to the bonuses. In fact, in order for me to figure it out, I had to build an excel character sheet that auto-populated fields based on other fields. Pain in the butt, but it does work in figuring how character creation is now set up.

[daddystabz]

That is awesome! Would you be willing to share that sheet? The players I am recruiting for me local game would find that invaluable, I'm sure.

[Lt. Holmes]

What might be a really good idea would be to start a new thread about how to roll a new-style RT character from scratch, right from the attributes to the final stat blocks. I don't know about the rest of you, but this new-fangled stuff can be confusing and it makes me want to fall back into my old RT addictions

[Tiree]

Creating the character, Stats and skills doesn't seem to be a problem. It is tallying the bonuses correctly that tend to boggle the mind. The fact that TSC vs TMS layout of bonuses are different are one of my biggest gripes. Adjustable yes, but they should stay consistent.

Not to mention my gripe about skills ans requirements or bonuses to other skills...

[daddystabz]

Tiree hit the nail on the head exactly.

[Lt. Holmes]

Creating the character, Stats and skills doesn't seem to be a problem. It is tallying the bonuses correctly that tend to boggle the mind.

Yeah, but I figured going through it wouldn't hurt, especially for any noobs that lurk here. My one grip about PBs layouts is they don't give any examples of how their rules should work.

[daddystabz]

It would be helpful indeed, no doubt.