Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
Seneca wrote:Did the gargoyles get anything? What about the Nautilor aliens and their allaince? Any new Kittani toys for the gurgoyles? Stats for a typical gargoyle roost? Even an average breakdown of a gargoyle force?
Zerebus wrote:The Gargoyles get the honor of having Triax designing and deploying countless and insidious plots to destroy their eggs while they're still in the hatcheries.Spoiler:
Yeah the Gargys get no love, but I think they were pretty tough to begin with. 
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
ALAshbaugh wrote:Because DINOSAURS.
Kahuna wrote:I've started to notice a human superiority happening lately. Not to be negative and perhaps I'm missing something, but the Coalition and the NGR are certainly doing well. Have either of them really suffered any setbacks? I'm not advocating their destruction by any means, but let's shake things up bit. I wouldn't mind seeing the Gargoyle Empire mount a major offensive that would leave the NGR reeling and barely hanging on for the next 2-3 years.
Black Ops wrote:The thing I am wondering about is how much will it affect the Troops they (the Coalition) send oversees.
I think that there is a significant cultural shock involved in the Rifts World having them suddenly exposed to the NGR.
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:The Gargoyle Empire has had it too good for too long. Triax 2 just swings it back in the favor of the NGR. There is still plenty of room for things to swing back to the Gargoyles or to the Brodkil. The Brodkil and Mindwerks are bigger threats than anyone seems to realize. If anyone is going to permanently crush the Gargoyles, it will be the Brodkil.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
ALAshbaugh wrote:Because DINOSAURS.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
ALAshbaugh wrote:Because DINOSAURS.
Mallak's Place wrote:I think the NGRs win over the Gargoyles was much more believable then the Coalitions win over Tolkeen
Zerebus wrote:The Galactus Kid wrote: Mindwerks will be discussed in the Sovietski Sourcebook mainly because they lay claim to one of the Sovietski's fortress cities and the Sovietski strongly disagrees.
Awesome.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
ALAshbaugh wrote:Because DINOSAURS.
Hystrix wrote:Mallak's Place wrote:I think the NGRs win over the Gargoyles was much more believable then the Coalitions win over Tolkeen
Yeah. Especially because Tolkeen have a reduiculous amount of troops for it's size (check it out in SoT6 - and remember, thats only 47% of what they had). We are talking 50%+ of the population was in the damn army.
The NGR are face the horrors of the Sub-Demons...oooohhh. The weakest of all supernatural creature form a couple of "empires", and suddenly the NGR is beseiged.
Sorry, but the NGR has far more secure boders and infrestructure (sp?) than the CS. And they are facing "supernatural" creatures that may know a few earth warlock spells at the most. The CS, on the other hand, feuds with there own people (Free Quebec), and is beset by magic kingdoms that have more innate magical abilities in thier collective pinky, than the Gargoyal "empire" has combined.
So, when you look at it that way, you're right, the NGR's success is more believable.
Kahuna wrote:RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:The Gargoyle Empire has had it too good for too long. Triax 2 just swings it back in the favor of the NGR. There is still plenty of room for things to swing back to the Gargoyles or to the Brodkil. The Brodkil and Mindwerks are bigger threats than anyone seems to realize. If anyone is going to permanently crush the Gargoyles, it will be the Brodkil.
Perhaps it's in the way we play Europe. In trying to keep with the books, I didn't see a single city lost to the Gargoyle Empire, hadn't seen a single Triax factory razed, nothing other than this understood pressure the Empire put on the NGR. Again, perhaps I'm reading too little into the threat they posed and maybe I need to read about it again, but I just didn't see or feel it like I wanted to.
Lenwen wrote:The NGR have been in that situation and have thrived already ..
Lets just see how the CS would do in that very predicament ..
Lenwen wrote:Hystrix wrote:Mallak's Place wrote:I think the NGRs win over the Gargoyles was much more believable then the Coalitions win over Tolkeen
Yeah. Especially because Tolkeen have a reduiculous amount of troops for it's size (check it out in SoT6 - and remember, thats only 47% of what they had). We are talking 50%+ of the population was in the damn army.
The NGR are face the horrors of the Sub-Demons...oooohhh. The weakest of all supernatural creature form a couple of "empires", and suddenly the NGR is beseiged.
Sorry, but the NGR has far more secure boders and infrestructure (sp?) than the CS. And they are facing "supernatural" creatures that may know a few earth warlock spells at the most. The CS, on the other hand, feuds with there own people (Free Quebec), and is beset by magic kingdoms that have more innate magical abilities in thier collective pinky, than the Gargoyal "empire" has combined.
So, when you look at it that way, you're right, the NGR's success is more believable.
This whole post makes me laugh ..
Tens of Millions of Mega Damage beings .. each more then capable of destroying Tanks single handedly .. That have the ability to turn into even more dangerous beings by turning into stone .. Cast spells .. who are again .. in the TENS OF MILLIONS ... (not tens of thousands)..
The CS was not .. "Beseiged" by Tolkeen .. it was Tolkeen who was besieged by the CS ..
The NGR has more secure boarders and infrastructer due to them being more advanced technologically then the Coalition, and being able to place an entire military army lvl force anywhere inside their boarders in literally minutes ..
The NGR has more success mainly due to the advanced Tech they themselves have created.. and continue to create ..
This guy's post makes me laugh ..
Laux the Ogre wrote:Ok, I'm going to give some love for the Gargoyle Empire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0-_u7tNmPY
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:The Gargoyle Empire has had it too good for too long. Triax 2 just swings it back in the favor of the NGR. There is still plenty of room for things to swing back to the Gargoyles or to the Brodkil. The Brodkil and Mindwerks are bigger threats than anyone seems to realize. If anyone is going to permanently crush the Gargoyles, it will be the Brodkil.
The Galactus Kid wrote:There were rumors of an eastern Europe book in the works, and Mindwerks will be discussed in the Sovietski Sourcebook mainly because they lay claim to one of the Sovietski's fortress cities and the Sovietski strongly disagrees.
dark brandon wrote:Lenwen wrote:Hystrix wrote:Mallak's Place wrote:I think the NGRs win over the Gargoyles was much more believable then the Coalitions win over Tolkeen
Yeah. Especially because Tolkeen have a reduiculous amount of troops for it's size (check it out in SoT6 - and remember, thats only 47% of what they had). We are talking 50%+ of the population was in the damn army.
The NGR are face the horrors of the Sub-Demons...oooohhh. The weakest of all supernatural creature form a couple of "empires", and suddenly the NGR is beseiged.
Sorry, but the NGR has far more secure boders and infrestructure (sp?) than the CS. And they are facing "supernatural" creatures that may know a few earth warlock spells at the most. The CS, on the other hand, feuds with there own people (Free Quebec), and is beset by magic kingdoms that have more innate magical abilities in thier collective pinky, than the Gargoyal "empire" has combined.
So, when you look at it that way, you're right, the NGR's success is more believable.
This whole post makes me laugh ..
Tens of Millions of Mega Damage beings .. each more then capable of destroying Tanks single handedly .. That have the ability to turn into even more dangerous beings by turning into stone .. Cast spells .. who are again .. in the TENS OF MILLIONS ... (not tens of thousands)..
The CS was not .. "Beseiged" by Tolkeen .. it was Tolkeen who was besieged by the CS ..
The NGR has more secure boarders and infrastructer due to them being more advanced technologically then the Coalition, and being able to place an entire military army lvl force anywhere inside their boarders in literally minutes ..
The NGR has more success mainly due to the advanced Tech they themselves have created.. and continue to create ..
This guy's post makes me laugh ..
Some points of note: Even the tiny flightless gargs have MDC bodies with about 100-400 mdc and all have SN strength. even the little ones can go toe to toe with some PA.
NGR has great tech and one factor that's benefiting them is their enemies. Gargs are very instinctual creatures, which is making it easier and easier for the NGR to develop tactics against them. One factor that doesn't seem to be taken into account is the gargs themselves. They have no formal structure. They don't develop new tactics or anything to really combat NGR. No new magics, no tech, no new psionics.
Hystrix wrote:Yep. Apparently Lenwen failed to pick up on that little tid bit. Also, not quite tens of millions. And they arn't organized. The are poor tactians to say the least.
Hears some more stuff for Lenwn to "laugh" at. most gargoyals are fighting with their bear hand and primitive weapons. I'm sorry the only thing they have going for them is high MDC, which dosn't matter as the'd get slaughted my long range weaponry.
And a gargoyalite may have 400 MDC max, but it's not really it's slow, and have very limited combat abilities. They're just heavier targets.
runebeo wrote:I like how the first Triax book they were swarmed with millions of Gargoyles & Brodkil and it was titanic war that could go either way but sided nicely with the gargoyles. Now we check back and the NGR grown vastly with 90 million people and ready to wipe the gargoyles out. Seems like the NGR won a little too easy, as the Gargoyles are tough, regenerate, fly, have psionics, access to magic and near endless numbers using to evil millennium tree to portal in more. Thats the main thing I wish the book had covered, the NGR needs to capture or destroy that tree to really lock down the area. The gargoyle nation should have gotten some upgrades from Atlantis, just the difference of some radio jamming devices could made this war winnable. A few more kinds of gargoyles like the demongoyle from Dark Conversion added to their ranks would have been nice to see.
Kahuna wrote:I guess what I'm trying to say is that these grand human nations that I thought were barely hanging on seem to be quite dominant and the monstrous civilizations seem to be really the losers out there. I guess I'd like the world to be a bit more dangerous and darker than it is headed towards. When you stop fearing what's out there do you start losing your edge?
runebeo wrote: as the Gargoyles are tough, regenerate, fly, have psionics, access to magic and near endless numbers using to evil millennium tree to portal in more. Thats the main thing I wish the book had covered, the NGR needs to capture or destroy that tree to really lock down the area. The gargoyle nation should have gotten some upgrades from Atlantis, just the difference of some radio jamming devices could made this war winnable. A few more kinds of gargoyles like the demongoyle from Dark Conversion added to their ranks would have been nice to see.
dark brandon wrote:In small groups they work better. They are hunters and killers. That's why a small group of gargs were able to do what they did in Triax 2. They are good tacticians on a small scale. On a larger scale, they get poor. Their only tactic is to 'zerg rush' an enemy.
[/quote]And numbers. Having 400 MDC max isn't impressive if you don't have weapondry to back it up, but in this case, if you're awash in a sea of gargs, that's a lot of ammo you're going to burn up (mainly the Missiles which usually do the most damage), and you're relying on the weapon system on the PA to keep you alive (usually less damage, no Area explosions). This was the gargoyles biggest advantage, but with ways to get around them now (IE destorying hacheries), they are becoming less and less effective.
Hystrix wrote:dark brandon wrote:In small groups they work better. They are hunters and killers. That's why a small group of gargs were able to do what they did in Triax 2. They are good tacticians on a small scale. On a larger scale, they get poor. Their only tactic is to 'zerg rush' an enemy.
How the hell are gargoyals good a small arms tactics? When did this happen? They are sub-demons primarly used by demon lords and such as cannon fodder. That's what they do. I fail to see how they are good a squad based combat, against a technologically superior force.
Natasha wrote:Hystrix wrote:dark brandon wrote:In small groups they work better. They are hunters and killers. That's why a small group of gargs were able to do what they did in Triax 2. They are good tacticians on a small scale. On a larger scale, they get poor. Their only tactic is to 'zerg rush' an enemy.
How the hell are gargoyals good a small arms tactics? When did this happen? They are sub-demons primarly used by demon lords and such as cannon fodder. That's what they do. I fail to see how they are good a squad based combat, against a technologically superior force.
Sub-demon doesn't make them mindless, does it? They are intelligent creatures?
If our real life experience is any lesson, then it seems that waging war would have taught them a thing or two about the enemy they are fighting, and that technology doesn't necessarily win wars. That's been and is currently being demonstrated.
Kahuna wrote:Hystrix wrote:Natasha wrote:Hystrix wrote:dark brandon wrote:In small groups they work better. They are hunters and killers. That's why a small group of gargs were able to do what they did in Triax 2. They are good tacticians on a small scale. On a larger scale, they get poor. Their only tactic is to 'zerg rush' an enemy.
How the hell are gargoyals good a small arms tactics? When did this happen? They are sub-demons primarly used by demon lords and such as cannon fodder. That's what they do. I fail to see how they are good a squad based combat, against a technologically superior force.
Sub-demon doesn't make them mindless, does it? They are intelligent creatures?
If our real life experience is any lesson, then it seems that waging war would have taught them a thing or two about the enemy they are fighting, and that technology doesn't necessarily win wars. That's been and is currently being demonstrated.
Nothing you said makes the gargs good a tatctics or small group tactics. Is it possiblre that gargoyals can use it effeciently? Yes. Is it the norm? No. Small group tactics is not a strenghth of the gargoyals.
Gargoyles are intelligent, sure. It appears though that they easily devolve into an instictive, animalistic approach to combat. Without a more powerful force, such as Emperor Z or demon lords to guide and direct they, they devolve into a more tribal and barbaric approach to combat.
. Triax 2 pg 28However they are only sub-demons, after all, and cannot be expected to maintain solidarity without a Demon Lord, or someone like Emperor Zerstrun, to lead them.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:The Gargoyle Empire in Europe was a anomaly. It was created only because of a exceptional Gargoyle.
When the NGR pushed back hard, it pretty quickly fell apart, and the "empire" is now in three zones.. Triax 2 pg 28However they are only sub-demons, after all, and cannot be expected to maintain solidarity without a Demon Lord, or someone like Emperor Zerstrun, to lead them.
Same page goes on to talk about how it was a miracle for Zerstrun to have kept it together for as long as he did, because it goes against their nature. The current squabbling, rivalry and lack of unity is more typical of these sub-demons.
Zerstrun himself had to kill five of his own warlords (and their bands, and anyone else that spoke against him) because they were getting tired of his "planning" and they want action now!
That's the gargoyle - a creature that has a 2d6 score for IQ and relies as much on its instincts when push comes to shove. Sure they might get tricky enough to make combat interesting, but that's going to be about it.
If they are waging a guerrilla war, lack of unity is built into the system to some degree--partly for security reasons, partly for the nature of guerrilla warfare. Lack of leadership may be something the Germans can exploit, but if real life is any judge it's generally a bonus (that said, there probably needs to be some degree of cohesion) for the guerrillas. If we cast our eyes towards Afghanistan, the lack of Taliban unity means there's no chance for a NATO coup de grâce and there's nobody to negotiate with.
RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:If they are waging a guerrilla war, lack of unity is built into the system to some degree--partly for security reasons, partly for the nature of guerrilla warfare. Lack of leadership may be something the Germans can exploit, but if real life is any judge it's generally a bonus (that said, there probably needs to be some degree of cohesion) for the guerrillas. If we cast our eyes towards Afghanistan, the lack of Taliban unity means there's no chance for a NATO coup de grâce and there's nobody to negotiate with.
gargoyles don't fight that way intentionally. it's an evolutionary trait to make them better predators.
Natasha wrote:RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:If they are waging a guerrilla war, lack of unity is built into the system to some degree--partly for security reasons, partly for the nature of guerrilla warfare. Lack of leadership may be something the Germans can exploit, but if real life is any judge it's generally a bonus (that said, there probably needs to be some degree of cohesion) for the guerrillas. If we cast our eyes towards Afghanistan, the lack of Taliban unity means there's no chance for a NATO coup de grâce and there's nobody to negotiate with.
gargoyles don't fight that way intentionally. it's an evolutionary trait to make them better predators.
Is that better, the same, or worse for the Germans?
Same or worse, I'd think.
Kahuna wrote:Natasha wrote:Dustin Fireblade wrote:The Gargoyle Empire in Europe was a anomaly. It was created only because of a exceptional Gargoyle.
When the NGR pushed back hard, it pretty quickly fell apart, and the "empire" is now in three zones.. Triax 2 pg 28However they are only sub-demons, after all, and cannot be expected to maintain solidarity without a Demon Lord, or someone like Emperor Zerstrun, to lead them.
Same page goes on to talk about how it was a miracle for Zerstrun to have kept it together for as long as he did, because it goes against their nature. The current squabbling, rivalry and lack of unity is more typical of these sub-demons.
Zerstrun himself had to kill five of his own warlords (and their bands, and anyone else that spoke against him) because they were getting tired of his "planning" and they want action now!
That's the gargoyle - a creature that has a 2d6 score for IQ and relies as much on its instincts when push comes to shove. Sure they might get tricky enough to make combat interesting, but that's going to be about it.
I don't see how that's devolution into animal instinct combat.
If they are waging a guerrilla war, lack of unity is built into the system to some degree--partly for security reasons, partly for the nature of guerrilla warfare. Lack of leadership may be something the Germans can exploit, but if real life is any judge it's generally a bonus (that said, there probably needs to be some degree of cohesion) for the guerrillas. If we cast our eyes towards Afghanistan, the lack of Taliban unity means there's no chance for a NATO coup de grâce and there's nobody to negotiate with.
I think you might be quibbling over my word, devolution. Sorry, then let's call it instinct as that is stated in the books. Either way, it is in their nature to squabble, fight, back stab, and act now. As such they almost never maintain a real empire, kingdom, nation, or whatever word might be ok enough to use here. I think Dustin summed it up best.
Natasha wrote:Ok, I might be. Even in Dustin's sum I don't see anything that says they can't learn or improve as combatants. Unless there's a rule that they can't advance in experience levels and always have an equivalent experience level of one, I don't see how an impulsive instinct means they can't even organise and execute an ambush. I'll need to re-read the books but so far that's something I don't buy. Otherwise it'd be a turkey shoot. Although upon re-reading the books maybe I'll find that it is indeed a turkey shoot....
What percentage of warlords is five? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Natasha wrote:Ok, I might be. Even in Dustin's sum I don't see anything that says they can't learn or improve as combatants. Unless there's a rule that they can't advance in experience levels and always have an equivalent experience level of one, I don't see how an impulsive instinct means they can't even organise and execute an ambush. I'll need to re-read the books but so far that's something I don't buy. Otherwise it'd be a turkey shoot. Although upon re-reading the books maybe I'll find that it is indeed a turkey shoot....
What percentage of warlords is five? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
Well they certainly could stage a ambush. Lots of predators do that. The problem then becomes if the predator doesn't kill it's target with that ambush, he goes hungry (or in this case gets itself killed).
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Like I said, tricky enough to make combat interesting, just not much more than that.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:I have no idea of how many five warlords is. In that regard the books are sorely lacking in detail. Triax 2 does mention that Zerstrun has at his command roughly 1 million combined gar/gur-goyles (and whatever else he might have had in the way of support)
Natasha wrote:Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well they certainly could stage a ambush. Lots of predators do that. The problem then becomes if the predator doesn't kill it's target with that ambush, he goes hungry (or in this case gets itself killed).
So they're capable of executing complex combat missions on one hand but on the other they're just mindless meat-eaters who have no capability of grasping any concept other than predation or doing anything more complicated than predation? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Natasha wrote:Dustin Fireblade wrote:Well they certainly could stage a ambush. Lots of predators do that. The problem then becomes if the predator doesn't kill it's target with that ambush, he goes hungry (or in this case gets itself killed).
So they're capable of executing complex combat missions on one hand but on the other they're just mindless meat-eaters who have no capability of grasping any concept other than predation or doing anything more complicated than predation? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Well I certainly wouldn't equate a ambush as a complex battle mission.
Coordinating multiple simultaneous such attacks at the same time while jamming enemy communications to prevent back-up from arriving, then moving onto additional targets and attacking again simultaneously, with minimal casualties; that would be a complex battle mission. And again would need someone/thing other than a regular gargoyle so they don't fly off when they see something shiny.
And they are unbeatable only in the sense of superior numbers overpowering defenders quickly. Superior ranged weapons and tactics will carry the day.
Natasha wrote:I think an ambush is complex even for humans to plan and execute. It requires actionable intel unless you're willing to sit around and wait for the enemy to stumble across you. It requires patience to wait for the enemy is in the kill zone. It requires reconnaissance and planning to find and augment the kill zone. It requires understanding where you are and were your comrades are.
Dustin Fireblade wrote:Natasha wrote:I think an ambush is complex even for humans to plan and execute. It requires actionable intel unless you're willing to sit around and wait for the enemy to stumble across you. It requires patience to wait for the enemy is in the kill zone. It requires reconnaissance and planning to find and augment the kill zone. It requires understanding where you are and were your comrades are.
Gary the Gargoyle flying around spots a NGR patrol, thanks to his really good hawk like vision.
He flies and tells his buddy Garfield the Gargoyle, eating lunch with a few other buds, Gallagher and Gabe.
Gary - "Let's get'em!"
Others - "Gargoyles SMASH!"
<all fly off and land a little ways ahead of the NGR patrol>
Gary - "We wait here. Smash'em up good!"
Others - Grinning and nodding their heads. "Gargoyles SMASH!"
Gary - "SHUT UP!! BE QUIET!!"
Others - "ok"
<little later the NGR patrol comes into view>
Gary - "CHARGE!!"
Others - "GARGOYLES SMASH!!"
Few minutes later, the NGR troopers have killed Garry and his buds. Thanks to their heavy armor, long range heavy weapons, and escorted by some Dyna-Bots the intrepid soldiers have carried the day.
Sgt. Heidenreich - "Stupid gargoyles...call it in and ask command for extraction."
(Natasha everything you said about a ambush is true. I just don't consider it complex. Detailed perhaps, but not complex. Hopefully the above comic doesn't offend but I believe it to be fairly accurate for gargoyle thinking.)
Lenwen wrote:I am of the mindset that Gargoyals just like humans can learn, teach .. and adapt to thier enviorments .. If this was not true .. then how and why are they the most successful out of every single demonic species from either Dyval .. and Hades ?
Gargoyals represent in my honest opinion the "Exeption" to the rule ..
The mere fact that Emp Z has them using tech .. and slowly learning it .. True as it maby only roughly 50'000 of them for now .. which is more now then at any time in their entire species history .. in all of the megaverse ..
Garg's are a subclass of demon's .. yet due to their rapid ability to reproduce and with the right garg to lead them .. they have created thier own empire .. (tho there are several Garg empires threw out the megaverse)
Gargoyals tho sub-Demons, are more then capable of learning .. teaching .. and adapting ..
dark brandon wrote:Lenwen wrote:I am of the mindset that Gargoyals just like humans can learn, teach .. and adapt to thier enviorments .. If this was not true .. then how and why are they the most successful out of every single demonic species from either Dyval .. and Hades ?
Gargoyals represent in my honest opinion the "Exeption" to the rule ..
The mere fact that Emp Z has them using tech .. and slowly learning it .. True as it maby only roughly 50'000 of them for now .. which is more now then at any time in their entire species history .. in all of the megaverse ..
Garg's are a subclass of demon's .. yet due to their rapid ability to reproduce and with the right garg to lead them .. they have created thier own empire .. (tho there are several Garg empires threw out the megaverse)
Gargoyals tho sub-Demons, are more then capable of learning .. teaching .. and adapting ..
Actually, the book states quite the contrary. They can learn...but they are instinctual creatures, far more so than humans, and as such, have a poor time adapting.
Hystrix wrote: In Triax 2 it points out that Emporer Z's army is maybe 800,000- 1.3 mil. It alot, but it's only gargoyals. In fact, the Brodkil might be more a threat than the gargs. They are around 5 million and are slightly better organized, but even still, they are just a bunch of Sub-Demons...
dark brandon wrote:Hystrix wrote: In Triax 2 it points out that Emporer Z's army is maybe 800,000- 1.3 mil. It alot, but it's only gargoyals. In fact, the Brodkil might be more a threat than the gargs. They are around 5 million and are slightly better organized, but even still, they are just a bunch of Sub-Demons...
The brodkil are going to be a bit harder. They don't seem to be quite as instinctual as gargs, and have a unified leader that they view as a god rather than a leader.
Also, "sub-demon" doesn't really say much of anything. There is nothing that really defines what a sub-demon can't/can do. So saying "they are just a bunch of sub demons" is really a misnomer, as it doesn't tell you anything except maybe they are vulnerable to millennium tree weapons, but it doesn't say anything about their society, how they view leadership or anything else that would really make any difference.
