Ks conflicting thoughts about Republicans

[Dunia]

Ok, I need some help here:

I'm trying to do some major work with the republicans and I have this far written about 60 pages (and less than half of what I have planned is done) with ideas and stuff about operations, approximate troops and ''civilian'' supporters/training bases, typical life of the Republicans, what they salvaged from washington as well as non-republican agents working for them. Now I am trying do do a history chapter and everything seems so confusing:

There is a thriving tech-center in Washington DC calling themselves the Republicans that lays claim to old ruins and subterran tunnels, a growing power in the East. 60% humans, little magic, heavy on all forms of aumentation and psionics

The Republicans are dead, and seen as enigmatic. 60% hmans 40% d-bees. They secretly thrived in the underground of Washington DC. They are destroyed - wiped out PA 98-102. possessed some Pre-rifts tech, and focused heavily on MOM. estimated 60% were captured by Atlantis forces

The republicans are heroes in the eyes of the nearby people and stuff out of legends (if people really know about them, that is). They helped Chi Town, Free Quebec encorage education in societies, founded Old Bones and control it, days of glory during the 3rd generation of NEMA about 60 years after the great cataclysm (AD 2158/PA -128) Former NEMA.

Republicans do not object to Human Supremacism and see D-bees as invaders and wants to make US into a huan nation with D-bees as second class citizens (as best) or slave labour and regulated. they hate and distrust magic

So what is true and what is not - is there other things written about Republicans? Or is it just conflicting things because KS forgot about the Republicans (as he states in SB1 R&E?

[dragonfett]

He even states in the Revised and Expanded Sourcebook 1 that he had completely forgotten about them. There is one thing that really irks me about that book, and it's that in the original Sourcebook 1, the Explorer EBA and Falcon 200 Jet Pack were both made by Triax, and this was supported by WB 5: Triax and the NGR, but now according to the Revised and Expanded Sourcebook, it's made by Northern Gun. Now I can understand Triax selling the rights to them do produce those items in America instead of Triax having to constantly import them, but there is no mention at all as to why the sudden change of makers. I mean that irks me even more than the Republicans "supposedly" giving the CS and Free Quebec the blueprints and technical drawings to make pre-Rifts stuff (which steams me pretty good to begin with), not by much mind you, but it does.

Edit, ok, I am calmer now about the whole Explorer armor and Falcon 300 Jet Pack (wait, why did I put Falcon 200?!) thing. I was reading through the Rifts GMG and saw that the armor and jet pack were being knocked off by NG. I just wish this would have been explained in the revised sourcebook. Oh well.

[The Beast]

Ok, I need some help here:

I'm trying to do some major work with the republicans and I have this far written about 60 pages (and less than half of what I have planned is done) with ideas and stuff about operations, approximate troops and ''civilian'' supporters/training bases, typical life of the Republicans, what they salvaged from washington as well as non-republican agents working for them. Now I am trying do do a history chapter and everything seems so confusing:

There is a thriving tech-center in Washington DC calling themselves the Republicans that lays claim to old ruins and subterran tunnels, a growing power in the East. 60% humans, little magic, heavy on all forms of aumentation and psionics

The Republicans are dead, and seen as enigmatic. 60% hmans 40% d-bees. They secretly thrived in the underground of Washington DC. They are destroyed - wiped out PA 98-102. possessed some Pre-rifts tech, and focused heavily on MOM. estimated 60% were captured by Atlantis forces

The republicans are heroes in the eyes of the nearby people and stuff out of legends (if people really know about them, that is). They helped Chi Town, Free Quebec encorage education in societies, founded Old Bones and control it, days of glory during the 3rd generation of NEMA about 60 years after the great cataclysm (AD 2158/PA -128) Former NEMA.

Republicans do not object to Human Supremacism and see D-bees as invaders and wants to make US into a huan nation with D-bees as second class citizens (as best) or slave labour and regulated. they hate and distrust magic

So what is true and what is not - is there other things written about Republicans? Or is it just conflicting things because KS forgot about the Republicans (as he states in SB1 R&E?

Allow me to help:

After the Mechanoids invaded Archie's bunker and mind bonded with him, they found out about all these dudes in cyro and killed them all. Archie would have said something, but he had a hard enough time convincing them that Hagan was his puppet and to let Hagan live.

And with those two sentences, you can completely ignore that stupid republican story arc.

[DhAkael]

Much as The Beast and I can disagree on most points...I have to give thumbs up on his previous post.
Just ignore the whole mess and say the Mechies slaughtered the whole lot.

[Dunia]

It would be fun to have Kevin himself actually answer one of these post sometime and tell us what he thinks and wants with all the conflicting things he writes...

[Grinning Demon]

It would be fun to have Kevin himself actually answer one of these post sometime and tell us what he thinks and wants with all the conflicting things he writes...

Why? Are you THAT unimaginative that you need everything spelled out in order for you to make a simple adventure? Use your imagination, remember this is your world. Simply omit the stuff you don't like and keep the stuff you do, it's not that hard. A lot of "history" in Rifts are adventure hooks, beginnings with intentionally vague details for you the GM to fill in.

[Dunia]

Why? Are you THAT unimaginative that you need everything spelled out in order for you to make a simple adventure? Use your imagination, remember this is your world. Simply omit the stuff you don't like and keep the stuff you do, it's not that hard. A lot of "history" in Rifts are adventure hooks, beginnings with intentionally vague details for you the GM to fill in.

I second this motion.

No, but I get annoyed of poorly written books and bad authors, its just one of my pet peeves.

[glitterboy2098]

i'm trying to see where you have conflicting info.

so the republicans just had a semi-public base in the ruins washington DC. which was eventually attacked by the splugorth and wiped out. 40% Dbees sounds about right for a second class citizen/slave population of workers, too.

you'll notice that the majority of the republican's hacking efforts to steal cyberworks production time comes after the loss of the D.C. group..presumably with that base gone they lost their more convnetional production and procurement capabilities..

[Dunia]

I'm confused if you think Rifts is poorly written and it's creator is a bad author why are you here?

I was given this game by some friends ad I GM it (at least my version of it) and I use the forums like most others; to get ideas, answers and thoughts about the game.

[Sureshot]

I see nothing wrong with asking an author for a clearer explanation of what he has written. Espcially when an author keeps retconning stuff he has already written. Not sure why all the hostility towards Dunia either. And its poor form to tell someone to get lost because he dislikes somethings Kevin has written. I dislike certain things myself and have made it known. Should I now leave the forums behind because of it. Third last time I checked this was a board where we could talk about and have topics that discuss both the negative and postive about PB in general. I suggest two things. Grow a thicker skin and not feel obligated to post in every thread.

[Nether]

You know if KS posted on these forums that you can help save PB by jumping off a bridge, then at least half the population here would be gone.

It's just hard for some to accept that not everything is perfect and people make errors, much like what you are pointing out.

I love how people belittle Dunia for pointing out contradiction in the work and wanting to talk about it, so posters instead attack her wondering why she is a fan.

Yes i can use my imagination, hence why i roleplay, but that has nothing to do with bad authoring. Does KS have amazing ideas for Rifts? Sure does. Does he suck at editing and math? Sure does.
Why is it so much to ask for to 'not have to fix more issues with the game' when you already have a ton of house rules to just patch the system. I want to spend my time playing the game, not having to spend twice as much time trying to fix the system and keep the world story straight. That is the sole purpose why source books are popular and sell, because this way you don't have to create every little thing, come up with every idea and concept. You can now just play without worry of it taking up so much more time.

The republicans were barely even mentioned before revised SB1. If this is the kind of issues we have to look forward to with him revising all the current books then the world is going to come apart. What next, the CS is really a bunch of human replica cyborgs that ARchie 7 from MiO created and put on the planet to fight all the dbee scum that wants a piece of his pie.

@Dunia, sounds pretty crazy for the amount of material you have already created for your game. If i was looking to sell source material or adventures then absolutely but for a reg game, your crazy

I hate the whole idea of the republicans, so my games i just leave it at they got wiped out by the splugg and had nothing to do with seeding libraries or being responsible for anyones upbringing.

[Nether]

I see nothing wrong with asking an author for a clearer explanation of what he has written. Espcially when an author keeps retconning stuff he has already written. Not sure why all the hostility towards Dunia either. And its poor form to tell someone to get lost because he dislikes somethings Kevin has written. I dislike certain things myself and have made it known. Should I now leave the forums behind because of it. Third last time I checked this was a board where we could talk about and have topics that discuss both the negative and postive about PB in general. I suggest two things. Grow a thicker skin and not feel obligated to post in every thread.

I hear ya.
Yes but if you post anything negative, in a constructive manner, you still get chewed out here and told to get lost.

People obviously like the game setting, and are just making it known what they don't like and would like to see addressed. Any smart pub will be trying to home in on those people and turn them into customers making them more money in the process.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is a thriving tech-center in Washington DC calling themselves the Republicans that lays claim to old ruins and subterran tunnels, a growing power in the East. 60% humans, little magic, heavy on all forms of aumentation and psionics

The Republicans are dead, and seen as enigmatic. 60% hmans 40% d-bees. They secretly thrived in the underground of Washington DC. They are destroyed - wiped out PA 98-102. possessed some Pre-rifts tech, and focused heavily on MOM. estimated 60% were captured by Atlantis forces

The republicans are heroes in the eyes of the nearby people and stuff out of legends (if people really know about them, that is). They helped Chi Town, Free Quebec encorage education in societies, founded Old Bones and control it, days of glory during the 3rd generation of NEMA about 60 years after the great cataclysm (AD 2158/PA -128) Former NEMA.

Republicans do not object to Human Supremacism and see D-bees as invaders and wants to make US into a huan nation with D-bees as second class citizens (as best) or slave labour and regulated. they hate and distrust magic

It might be that the 1st two statements are talking about the perceptions from the outside. While the third is talking about the truth behind the perceptions.

[Dunia]

There is a thriving tech-center in Washington DC calling themselves the Republicans that lays claim to old ruins and subterran tunnels, a growing power in the East. 60% humans, little magic, heavy on all forms of aumentation and psionics

The Republicans are dead, and seen as enigmatic. 60% hmans 40% d-bees. They secretly thrived in the underground of Washington DC. They are destroyed - wiped out PA 98-102. possessed some Pre-rifts tech, and focused heavily on MOM. estimated 60% were captured by Atlantis forces

The republicans are heroes in the eyes of the nearby people and stuff out of legends (if people really know about them, that is). They helped Chi Town, Free Quebec encorage education in societies, founded Old Bones and control it, days of glory during the 3rd generation of NEMA about 60 years after the great cataclysm (AD 2158/PA -128) Former NEMA.

Republicans do not object to Human Supremacism and see D-bees as invaders and wants to make US into a huan nation with D-bees as second class citizens (as best) or slave labour and regulated. they hate and distrust magic

It might be that the 1st two statements are talking about the perceptions from the outside. While the third is talking about the truth behind the perceptions.

Yeah, I am leaning towards this as well.

[Dunia]

Dunia, sounds pretty crazy for the amount of material you have already created for your game. If i was looking to sell source material or adventures then absolutely but for a reg game, your crazy

I hate the whole idea of the republicans, so my games i just leave it at they got wiped out by the splugg and had nothing to do with seeding libraries or being responsible for anyones upbringing.

Well, being a freelance writer to two Swedish post-apocalypse RPGs, it comes natural to me to sit down and make hundreds of "post-it"/"ninja-notes"/"mini-memos" with ideas whenever I get them. And both me and my core-playing group are always very interested in background history of things when we play. And I like the concept of the Republicans, havng this shadow organisation trying to rebuild the country - but I dislike what was written about them, and decided to rewrite it so that it would fit me and my world better. I never meant to write this much, but when I compiled what I have written, it was 58½ page, and even then I am not done with their history.

[Kagashi]

There is a thriving tech-center in Washington DC calling themselves the Republicans that lays claim to old ruins and subterran tunnels, a growing power in the East. 60% humans, little magic, heavy on all forms of aumentation and psionics

The Republicans are dead, and seen as enigmatic. 60% hmans 40% d-bees. They secretly thrived in the underground of Washington DC. They are destroyed - wiped out PA 98-102. possessed some Pre-rifts tech, and focused heavily on MOM. estimated 60% were captured by Atlantis forces

The republicans are heroes in the eyes of the nearby people and stuff out of legends (if people really know about them, that is). They helped Chi Town, Free Quebec encorage education in societies, founded Old Bones and control it, days of glory during the 3rd generation of NEMA about 60 years after the great cataclysm (AD 2158/PA -128) Former NEMA.

Republicans do not object to Human Supremacism and see D-bees as invaders and wants to make US into a huan nation with D-bees as second class citizens (as best) or slave labour and regulated. they hate and distrust magic

It might be that the 1st two statements are talking about the perceptions from the outside. While the third is talking about the truth behind the perceptions.

Agreed. The first was written by Tarn, who was reporting rumors and relied heavily on speculation (as a historian, this is a big no-no...but seeing nobody else was documenting this history of post Rifts Earth...its all we have to go off of at that time). The second was written in the aftermath of the Tolkeen War. The Republicans went unnoticed and unforgotten. Just what they wanted. Lastly, the third is more of the truth now that we had a book (article) dedicated to them.

KS uses this as a writing tool, so you can do what you want in your game. It gives you the flexibility to do whatever. Problem is, there are a lot of fans who are reading the books as a source of entertainment in and of themselves, like watching a movie. Much of the frustration from fans about inconsistency is similar to the frustration of the glaring holes in the SW Prequels when one sees the original trilogy first.

Its excusable for an RPG, but not for a movie. Although lately, it seems KS and company are writing more along the lines of "fact" rather than "rumor" when they give setting info.

[Grinning Demon]

It would be fun to have Kevin himself actually answer one of these post sometime and tell us what he thinks and wants with all the conflicting things he writes...

Why? Are you THAT unimaginative that you need everything spelled out in order for you to make a simple adventure? Use your imagination, remember this is your world. Simply omit the stuff you don't like and keep the stuff you do, it's not that hard. A lot of "history" in Rifts are adventure hooks, beginnings with intentionally vague details for you the GM to fill in.

To clarify, your post right there is complaining about something that will never change. So why even post it? If you're writing 60 pages on the history of the Republicans (presumably all your world and original writing) why on Earth would you let a couple sentences from KS bring 60 pages of your own imagination to a grinding halt?? I stand by my original post. Sorry I call em' as I see em

[Grinning Demon]

It would be fun to have Kevin himself actually answer one of these post sometime and tell us what he thinks and wants with all the conflicting things he writes...

Why? Are you THAT unimaginative that you need everything spelled out in order for you to make a simple adventure? Use your imagination, remember this is your world. Simply omit the stuff you don't like and keep the stuff you do, it's not that hard. A lot of "history" in Rifts are adventure hooks, beginnings with intentionally vague details for you the GM to fill in.

To clarify, your post right there is complaining about something that will never change. So why even post it? If you're writing 60 pages on the history of the Republicans (presumably all your world and original writing) why on Earth would you let a couple sentences from KS bring 60 pages of your own imagination to a grinding halt?? I stand by my original post. Sorry I call em' as I see em

Dude your just being rude, she was looking for some help and clarification. She mentioned it would nice to hear from Kevin on the issue and you just insulted them for wanting to hear from Kevin on it. Sorry but you could at least add to the thread in some real way other then asking if the poster was unimaginative.

Edit: Sorry Call it as I see it.

Plenty of people chimed in with their clarification, the OP then still chose to complain about KS. I think my post was very helpful in telling the OP to look at her project from a different, less confined point of view. Ninjabunny also if you're going to unoriginally try to use my own phrase against me at least use proper grammar and spelling, otherwise it really doesn't come off as making you look terribly bright

[Grinning Demon]

MODERATED - Mack

[Nether]

It would be fun to have Kevin himself actually answer one of these post sometime and tell us what he thinks and wants with all the conflicting things he writes...

Why? Are you THAT unimaginative that you need everything spelled out in order for you to make a simple adventure? Use your imagination, remember this is your world. Simply omit the stuff you don't like and keep the stuff you do, it's not that hard. A lot of "history" in Rifts are adventure hooks, beginnings with intentionally vague details for you the GM to fill in.

To clarify, your post right there is complaining about something that will never change. So why even post it? If you're writing 60 pages on the history of the Republicans (presumably all your world and original writing) why on Earth would you let a couple sentences from KS bring 60 pages of your own imagination to a grinding halt?? I stand by my original post. Sorry I call em' as I see em

This is a common mentality on these forums and odd how in this day and age we still have people of such backwater thinking.

I'm sure slaves never thought they would be free, that woman thought they would never have equal rights, that anyone that has suffered injustices would get justice, ext ext and by your view they should just shut up and accept the status quo. How dare they speak up for what is important. Now take this a step down on the severity as this is a game we are talking about, but you should be able to see my point in that if you don't speak up, don't ask for improved products then you accept the status quo.

KS isn't infallable and if you are here to complain about some product, then it's because you obviously care enough to mention it in hopes of improvement. Your points might be negative in a fasion, but all posts addressing issues with this game have to be in a negative context, constructive or not. As far as i'm seeing Dunia isn't attacking KS, but she is wondering about the contraditions and wondering what the author was thinking.

As for the book comments i would have to agree that the first two which are offered by ET are limited and that the third which is also the latest printing of source would overide the priors. I don't like the republicans as mentioned, actually i have to mention it again just to forward my dislike for that idea in Rifts.

[boxee]

MODERATED - Mack

Hey I like trolls, and they serve a much needed security feature at bridges, as long as they pay the required ten percent tax I have no problem with them at all. Indeed many of my friends are trolls.

[drewkitty ~..~]

"Sorry Call em' as I see em." should be "Sorry, Call 'em as I see 'em." Recognizes that this is writing for effect, that over-riding the technically "proper" grammar and spelling.

"Sorry Call it as I see it." should be "Sorry, I call it as I see it."

Cap'ing all letters is considered yelling. Since most of the time yelling indoors is rude, yes.
If you want something to stand out it is better to highlight it in color.

all around. Every one know I'm the grammar police here.

Okay we are done with that, time to get back on topic.

[Mack]

Friends, if you can't post without including an insult, don't post. It's that simple.

[Mack]

Ok, I need some help here:

I'm trying to do some major work with the republicans and I have this far written about 60 pages (and less than half of what I have planned is done) with ideas and stuff about operations, approximate troops and ''civilian'' supporters/training bases, typical life of the Republicans, what they salvaged from washington as well as non-republican agents working for them. Now I am trying do do a history chapter and everything seems so confusing:

There is a thriving tech-center in Washington DC calling themselves the Republicans that lays claim to old ruins and subterran tunnels, a growing power in the East. 60% humans, little magic, heavy on all forms of aumentation and psionics

The Republicans are dead, and seen as enigmatic. 60% hmans 40% d-bees. They secretly thrived in the underground of Washington DC. They are destroyed - wiped out PA 98-102. possessed some Pre-rifts tech, and focused heavily on MOM. estimated 60% were captured by Atlantis forces

The republicans are heroes in the eyes of the nearby people and stuff out of legends (if people really know about them, that is). They helped Chi Town, Free Quebec encorage education in societies, founded Old Bones and control it, days of glory during the 3rd generation of NEMA about 60 years after the great cataclysm (AD 2158/PA -128) Former NEMA.

Republicans do not object to Human Supremacism and see D-bees as invaders and wants to make US into a huan nation with D-bees as second class citizens (as best) or slave labour and regulated. they hate and distrust magic

So what is true and what is not - is there other things written about Republicans? Or is it just conflicting things because KS forgot about the Republicans (as he states in SB1 R&E?

Keep in mind how he presented each of the passages you referenced.
-- The RMB passage is from Erin Tarn's "book."
-- The Aftermath one is from a CS Reconaissance report.
-- The SB1r passage provides some of the Republicans claims, but doesn't always support them as canon.

Has KS been a bit sporadic? Yep. But he's also avoided definitive statemetns, leaving plenty of room for GM's to tailor the Republicans as they see fit.

[kamikazzijoe]

Remember, as they fleshed out the east coast, Aberdeen and DC are completely underwater. Notice that Archie moved to the Allegheny.

That said, I liked the republicans more for running political jokes in our campaigns (We're from DC) then the minutemen they turned them into.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

take the elements that match and go for there, love to see where you adventure ends up

[Dunia]

To Mack: Thank you. I have not thought of that yet

To SamtheDagger: Thank you

To Amoderheathen: Well, I will need to translate it from Swedish to English so it may take a while as I will have alot to do now that I come back to work after a few months of baby-leave, to be honest, I do not know how to publish it as I do not think it will fit in canon, much to that I have changed the view of the world quite alot. But if there is a way, I will think about it though.