List of "human" races (True Atlantean, Neo-Human, Altess...)

[tsh77769]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts. Please list sources.

I'll start...

True Atlantean (Atlantis)
Neo-Human (South America 2)
Altess (Phase World Anvil Galaxy?)
Amazon (South America 2?)
Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)
Sea-Titan (Underseas)

What am I missing?

tsh77769

[Galroth]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts. Please list sources.

I'll start...

True Atlantean (Atlantis)
Neo-Human (South America 2)
Altess (Phase World Anvil Galaxy?)
Amazon (South America 2?)
Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)
Sea-Titan (Underseas)

What am I missing?

tsh77769

Psi-stalkers and the human mutants in Madhaven off the top of my head.

[Eashamahel]

Was just going to ask if you included human mutants.

If so, the line between where PCC and mutant start and stops is often blurred, Psi-Ghosts for instance could be either one.

Demi-gods may fit into this as well.

Wormwood humans.

[Bill]

Denlech from Thundercloud Galaxy are a form of human mutant.
Children of the Earth and Stars from England could qualify. The classes indicate that it's possible for a major psychic to learn the transformations, but only members of the Tarramar and Lleumar clans reliably do so.
Herbalists from England might count as well. It's a weird class, requiring the herbalist regardless of race to consume mutagenic mushrooms for the first decade of their life. So, really, they're mutant mystics which might have begun as human, but definitely aren't standard.

[Eashamahel]

Are Atlantean monster killers (or something like that! From South America 1, the guy on the cover) still 'Atlanteans' the way a human cyborg is still human, or something else entirely?

Also, some of the mage types from Federation eventually become MDC beings and creatures of magic (I think), and that would qualify them as very 'different' though I am not sure if they are a race, as I don't think they pass those traits on.

Oh, and the Psi-X Aliens are effectively just human mutants, they have to count (especially if the Madhaven ones do...)

[cornholioprime]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts. Please list sources.

I'll start...

True Atlantean (Atlantis)
Neo-Human (South America 2)
Altess (Phase World Anvil Galaxy?)
Amazon (South America 2?)
Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)
Sea-Titan (Underseas)

What am I missing?

tsh77769

Seeronians from the Skraypers setting.

[ShadowLogan]

Previous topic that generated a similar list focusing on human mutants:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=128693&hilit=Human+TechnoGothic#p2485683

Add that haven't been covered yet for human mutation:
Psi-X Aliens (mistaken for D-Bee, Lonestar/DBoNA)
Moutain Giants (maybe human, New West)
Barbarians (Dino Swap, Human-mutant)
Amphib (Underseas, human-mutant)
Pneuma-Biform (human-mutant?)
Ogres (breeding cousin to human, so may be thought of as human IMHO)
Keepers of the Desert (New West)

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

I don't know if Neo-Humans should actually be on the list. Their book entry mentions that despite the name and similar appearance, Neo-Humans are more closely related genetically to the other mutant animals than to actual humans. If Neo-Humans can't interbreed with humans, along with sharing a whole other host of likely biological incompatibilities, I wouldn't classify them as the same species.

[Chronicle]

Zentradi

[cornholioprime]

Zentradi

I would argue that the Zentraedi aren't "human" so much as they are a species in a fictional setting where different things with one head, two arms, and two legs can mate with each other and bear offspring.

(In that regard, as far as I know Kevin's Megaverse is the only "humans and other humanoid species" setting I've ever seen where beings of different-but-similar-looking species CAN'T interbreed.)

[Giant2005]

Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)

I don't think they count. They are erroneously listed as RCCs - their write-up mentions that DBees can become Star and Earth Children so they can't be considered a race.
You also missed Demigods.

[13eowulf]

Seerman - Homo-Sapiens Olecrus (Skraypers page 76)

Talus - Homo-Sapiens Talus (Skraypers page 78)

Lemurians (I think, being an Atlantean off-shoot)

[13eowulf]

Zentradi

I would argue that the Zentraedi aren't "human" so much as they are a species in a fictional setting where different things with one head, two arms, and two legs can mate with each other and bear offspring.

(In that regard, as far as I know Kevin's Megaverse is the only "humans and other humanoid species" setting I've ever seen where beings of different-but-similar-looking species CAN'T interbreed.)

I would agree, but they at least (I think) deserve an 'Honourable Mention' on account of their being able to breed with humans.

To that end I would suggest Tirolians as well for the same reasons.

[13eowulf]

Humans

Did anyone say that one yet?

Well played Panomas, well played.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Not Humans
Nightspawn, (race) they are SN beings with a mundane form.
Pneuma-Biforms are mystically enhanced dolphins and whales.
Amphibs are bioengineered aquatic people that are more animal then human.
Mountain Giants, aliens.
NightBane (pre-NBSG: wraiths of the formless ones)
------------

Not Humans, but can "cross pollinate"with humans.
Zentraedi, eugenic clone aliens.
Tiroliens (original population) aliens
Tiroliens (Masters' brood), eugenic clone aliens
Ogres, is a race that can that can 'cross pollinate' with humans.
Altress, aliens that are close enough to humans that they can 'cross pollinate' with humans.
Amazons are CoM that "can" that they can 'cross pollinate' with humans.
gods
human form Godlings
human form Demigods
------------

Humans
True Atlantans
Star and Earth children are humans from special human subgroups (tribes) that have these abilities.
Terrans from manhunter.
Demigods are SN beings that may or may not god procreated children with human physicality.
WW humans
3G humans
Lemurians
--------------

Don't know which side they should be listed as.
Neo-Humans, like with Psi Stalkers there is no text saying they can interbreed with humans.
Psi Stalkers are mutant humans. however there is no text that says they can interbreed with humans.
Seerman - Homo-Sapiens Olecrus
Talus - Homo-Sapiens Talus
Sims, eugenic human clones
NightBane (post NBSG: some mumbo jumbo about latent genes being the cause.)

post updated july 14th

[The Beast]

Hey tsh, are you going for races that can pass as human, are related to humans, can cross-breed with humans, a combination of those, or something else entirely?

[13eowulf]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts. Please list sources.

I'll start...

True Atlantean (Atlantis)
Neo-Human (South America 2)
Altess (Phase World Anvil Galaxy?)
Amazon (South America 2?)
Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)
Sea-Titan (Underseas)

What am I missing?

tsh77769

Three of the above list are not humans.

Not Humans
Neo-Humans are animal DNA recombination construct race. i.e.: They do not cross breed with humans.
Amazons are CoM that "can" that they can 'cross pollinate' with humans.
Altress, aliens that are close enough to humans that they can 'cross pollinate' with humans.
Nightspawn, they are SN beings with a mundane form.
Ogres, is a race that can that can 'cross pollinate' with humans.
Pneuma-Biform are mystically enhanced dolphins and whales.
Amphibs are bioengineered aquatic people that are more animal then human.
Mountain Giants, aliens.
Zentraedi, eugenic clone aliens.
Tiroliens, eugenic clone aliens
------------

Humans
Psi Stalkers are mutant humans. however there is no text that says they are a race unto themselves or if they can interbreed with humans.
Star and Earth children are humans from special human subgroups (tribes) that have these abilities.
Terrans from manhunter.
Demigods are SN beings that may or may not god procreated children with human physicality.
WW humans
3G humans
Lemurians
--------------

Don't know which side they should be listed as.
Seerman - Homo-Sapiens Olecrus
Talus - Homo-Sapiens Talus

You have piqued my interest: Under which category would you place the Sims from Manhunter?

[taalismn]

Hmmm...that's a tough one; Sims can't crossbreed with regular humans, but that's because they're essentially engineered sterile(and more likely than not, there's no way to reverse that, short of re-wiring their genetics...if you can engineer human DNA to fast-grow, then burn out, adding a genetic reproductive snip-snip is child's play).
I'd put them in the same category as Amazons(non-human)...but still sentient beings worthy of legal rights, but technically not human.

[taalismn]

1. Altess are human. Page 110 of Anvil Galaxies, 5th paragraph indicates this. They are just highly advanced humans that allowed massive genetic engineering in order to become MDC, highly long-lived, and hold the location of the Cosmic Forge in their heads..

Supposedly. And there's both good and bad aspects to having a rep for that.

And you clearly don't believe in the BubbleGum Crisis/ADPolice legal definition of 'human': in the anime anybody with a certain percentage of cybernetic implants is no longer legally human(a 'cyberoid')* and as such no longer is protected by basic human rights and legal protections(they can mirandize you on the spot with lethal gunfire). Under that definition, all Rifts Cyborgs wouldn't be considered human, and many Headhunters would also lose any legal standing.

*Mainly because the meat cops don't want to suffer massive casualties trying to subdue a super-augmented metalhead who's kicking their asses all over the street.

[Alrik Vas]

I think it's best to stick with the book text unless the GM of a game specifically wants to deal with the question, "What is human?"

[drewkitty ~..~]

--------------

Don't know which side they should be listed as.
Seerman - Homo-Sapiens Olecrus
Talus - Homo-Sapiens Talus
Sims, eugenic human clones

You have piqued my interest: Under which category would you place the Sims from Manhunter?

[Hotrod]

Don't forget Terrans from Manhunter

If you're going to include any creatures that can make babies with humans, you should consider

Naga (China Demon)
Naga-Spawn (their human offspring)
Gods
Godlings (I think)
Demi-Gods

[Galroth]

Don't forget Terrans from Manhunter

If you're going to include any creatures that can make babies with humans, you should consider

Naga (China Demon)
Naga-Spawn (their human offspring)
Gods
Godlings (I think)
Demi-Gods

Godlings are the children of two Gods. Also, some Demi-gods are half human, but they aren't all half human. I would argue that Demi-gods shouldn't be counted in the list of humans.

[Hotrod]

China's enlightened demons can become human...eventually.

If Pinocchio could become a real boy, there's gotta be hope for us all.

[ShadowLogan]

@cornholioprime:
re: Zentreadi

No the Zentreadi are likely off shoots to humans (or more specifically the Tirolian branch) given they have DNA that ranges from nearly identical to identical to humans. Tirolians are said to be identical.

@Lost Seraph
Palladium does allow Borgs to transfer to clone bodies, on Rifts Earth the only human power with the capacity is in Japan (As far as I can recall) as an option.

Frequently, the preferred alternative is to receive a clone body! The body is "fast grown" in a genetics laboratory from the cybor'g original DNA (takes three years) or a full grown "genetic blank" clone body with altered DNA can be used (takes three months)

@Dewkitty
Neo-Human:

...Instead, they decided to directly improve the human body!

Human embryos were experimented upon, mutated and altered...

Although the neo-humans are closer genetically to the mutant animals than to "real" humans..."

The neo-humans have their origins in humanity directly. They might feel closer to the mutant animals genetically due to the experimentation/mutation as opposed to actual animal DNA.

Amazons are human, they are "descendants of the fierce female warriors the Atlanteans rescued from certain death remain the loyal defenders of Manoa." (-pg97 of SA1, pg 87 confirms this. yes they have been altered, but they are human off-shoot like the True Atlanteans)

Pneuma-Biform: are magical chimeras that combine a human with another aquatic mammal. They are also capable of mating with human (or their aquatic animal) and 90% result in a new Pneuma-Biform (and children only result 11% of the time) mentioned for the Dolphin version (and the Whale mentions off-spring).

Amphibs: are Genetically engineered mutant humans (back story mentions it was considered bring up charges of crimes against humanity).

Moutain Giants: pg136 of New West offers two bits that leave some room for them to be humans or related to humans to be on the list:
-"...are the creation of Doctor Desmond Bradford at the Lone Star Genetics Complex in an attempt to bring out humankind's primal instincts and power."
-"...If they are (or were) human..."

Basically the writeup leaves room for them to be considered examples of human mutants OR aliens as their origin is not known (rumor puts it as a DDB@LSGC creation).

[taalismn]

@
Palladium does allow Borgs to transfer to clone bodies, on Rifts Earth the only human power with the capacity is in Japan (As far as I can recall) as an option.

Frequently, the preferred alternative is to receive a clone body! The body is "fast grown" in a genetics laboratory from the cybor'g original DNA (takes three years) or a full grown "genetic blank" clone body with altered DNA can be used (takes three months)

.

Beware the generic off-brand bodies....no telling what some of the 'alterations' are...

[drewkitty ~..~]

Updated my master list.

[13eowulf]

Updated my master list.

If it helps there is text under the Seermen description that states they and Talus can crossbreed with each other and humans (or at least that is how I read it).
Also

Whyfor you no include True Atlanteans?

[SolCannibal]

Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)

I don't think they count. They are erroneously listed as RCCs - their write-up mentions that DBees can become Star and Earth Children so they can't be considered a race.

Mostly my feelings too. Though i can be sort of lenient when it comes to RCCs related to psychic powers, as i always got the impression the difference between them and an adventurer that happens to be psychic was simply one of focus and training - read, you put whatever you did in second place to your psychic capacity.

[SolCannibal]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts. Please list sources.

I'll start...

True Atlantean (Atlantis)
Neo-Human (South America 2)
Altess (Phase World Anvil Galaxy?)
Amazon (South America 2?)
Star Child (does this even count? England)
Earth Child (does this even count? England)
Sea-Titan (Underseas)

None of these are "human" in my view.

Well, honestly Star & Earth Children are just as human or inhuman as any of the psychic R.C.C./P.C.C., read, Psi-stalker, Burster, Mind Melter or Mind Bleeder from what i can remember.

[Giant2005]

1. Altess are human. Page 110 of Anvil Galaxies, 5th paragraph indicates this. They are just highly advanced humans that allowed massive genetic engineering in order to become MDC, highly long-lived, and hold the location of the Cosmic Forge in their heads.

If they are altered, magically or genetically, then they are no longer "human" in the way we define the word, as I see it.

Same thing with the rest of your examples. "Humanoid" yes, "human", no.

That is a very hard line on what constitutes to be a human.
Do you consider Albinos or other people with genetic disorders to be human?

[Giant2005]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts.

None of these are "human" in my view.

Well, honestly Star & Earth Children are just as human or inhuman as any of the psychic R.C.C./P.C.C., read, Psi-stalker, Burster, Mind Melter or Mind Bleeder from what i can remember.

So a human Vagabond is the same as a Burster? -- Clearly not.

Assuming that Burster is a human, then they are of the same race.

[SolCannibal]

Do you consider Albinos or other people with genetic disorders to be human?

This question is moot; we're discussing what is "human" in terms of Rifts RPG, not what it means philosophically in the actual real world.

One thing is at least partly based in the other, so it is worth bringing up for the sake of comparison.

Or is your point that any variant individual or group of humanity that does not directly reflect the real world inhuman on principle?
Just curious.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Could you guys help me assemble a comprehensive list of "human" races in rifts.

None of these are "human" in my view.

Well, honestly Star & Earth Children are just as human or inhuman as any of the psychic R.C.C./P.C.C., read, Psi-stalker, Burster, Mind Melter or Mind Bleeder from what i can remember.

So a human Vagabond is the same as a Burster? -- Clearly not.

Assuming that Burster is a human, then they are of the same race.

Bursters are the fire type Psychic Erupters, thus is a PCC when concidered without any of the Style Formats that are imposed on Rifts class designators.

IOW: KS,in RUE, has admmited that that in RMB and RUE rifts canon PCCs are not labled as they should be to conform to a Style.

Spoiler:

From looking at the class labels, in the RMB how they are styled is from the view point of the CS and in RUE the style is to pander to munchkins and newbs making them all banally the same.

This is supported by the canon NPC Bursters and Mind Melters that are races other then human.


Talking about what "Class" the char has no bearing on whether a char is human in the objective sense.
It might have a bearing on how a culture or person might view that char as to whether the char is 'human'.

[SolCannibal]

Do you consider Albinos or other people with genetic disorders to be human?

This question is moot; we're discussing what is "human" in terms of Rifts RPG, not what it means philosophically in the actual real world.

One thing is at least partly based in the other, so it is worth bringing up for the sake of comparison.

Or is your point that any variant individual or group of humanity that does not directly reflect the real world inhuman on principle?
Just curious.

LOL - I'm not going to get wrapped up in your question. This whole conversation is in the context of the Rifts RPG. Let's stay on topic.

Then what makes then "inhuman" in the context of the Rifts RPG, as you put it, care to further clarify your point?

[SolCannibal]

Then what makes then "inhuman" in the context of the Rifts RPG, as you put it, care to further clarify your point?

Fair enough. They are not merely human because they have special abilites that the vast majorities of humans do not have. Because of this, they are inherently different and experience a fundamentally different reality than humans have both on a physical, emotional, and intellectual level.

Could not the same be said of major & minor psychics, something 25% of all OCCs in the game have of being, then?
And that not speaking of OCCs with a greater chance of developing of developing such powers or a particular set of then, like Operators, for example.

[SolCannibal]

LS: "Fair enough. They are not merely human because they have special abilites that the vast majorities of humans do not have. Because of this, they are inherently different and experience a fundamentally different reality than humans have both on a physical, emotional, and intellectual level."

Could not the same be said of major & minor psychics, something 25% of all OCCs in the game have of being, then?

Before you change the subject again, how about addressing the point that I made?

I changed subjects? Honestly not seeing it. But ok, i'll try to rephrase it then.

If the psychic R.C.C. (that the Earth & Star Children, my original point of contention, are part of) are, according to your own words, not merely human because they have special abilites that the vast majorities of humans do not have and make them inherently different and experience a fundamentally different reality than humans have both on a physical, emotional, and intellectual level" how that adress the 25% of all characters in the game that may have those same special abilites (though in a lesser degree) that result in "a fundamentally different reality than humans" as it seems to run counter to such a view of the psychic?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Then what makes then "inhuman" in the context of the Rifts RPG, as you put it, care to further clarify your point?

Fair enough. They are not merely human because they have special abilities that the vast majorities of humans do not have. Because of this, they are inherently different and experience a fundamentally different reality than humans have both on a physical, emotional, and intellectual level.

Being Human is not changed by having special abilities. Disagreeing on the basic underlying idea that just because you have tapped into something more, that you are not human. (This is the view point of the CS.)

But there is also a difference between the meaning of the words "Inhuman" and "non-human". The former is referring to the personality of the person, where the latter is an objective saying 'it is not a human being'. Thus a human can be inhuman, even while a non-human can be humane.

But by your description, the "Ultra Rich" are not human because they experience the world fundamentally different from other humans on the physical, emotional, and intellectual levels.

[Tor]

Rather than these threads popping up constantly, perhaps someone should just make an article at http://rifts.wikia.com that people could collectively edit and every human varient could be organized under chronological number-bullets.

[13eowulf]

Rather than these threads popping up constantly, perhaps someone should just make an article at http://rifts.wikia.com that people could collectively edit and every human varient could be organized under chronological number-bullets.

Except of course that we have not reached any sort of group consensus, so that article would be ripe for constant revisions as people change it to meet their POV.

[tsh77769]

I'm specifically looking for human variants who still "look" human. That's why I left out psi-stalkers even though they are so obviously a common human mutation.

This thread got wildy sidetracked. Let's scale that back somewhat please.

tsh77769

[13eowulf]

I'm specifically looking for human variants who still "look" human. That's why I left out psi-stalkers even though they are so obviously a common human mutation.

This thread got wildy sidetracked. Let's scale that back somewhat please.

tsh77769

The pointed teeth and various 'markings', while common, are cosmetic alterations done by the individual Psi-Stalker, filing down their own teeth, and painting or tattooing the markings on. They do, in their natural form, look Human.