Constructive Criticism: Rifts Edition

[GenThunderfist]

I know we constantly have the "What do you Love/Hate about X or Y" but it's not often that I've seen a thread like what I would like to propose.

The rules here are simple;

1. I want at least one (1) thing that is great, fantastic, loved, or is even just pretty good about the Rifts System / Books. It can be as simple as "I prefer this cover art" or as complicated as "This is obviously the best way to resolve X because of these reasons". It can be a diamond in the rough that you wish was expanded upon but at least has great groundwork, or can even be a fully formed, explored, and developed concept.

2. However you must also provide at least one (1) thing that isn't that great or you don't much care for. Something that you feel needs to be fixed, improved, or simply removed entirely.

3. You may of course post multiple things you like, or multiple dislikes for that matter, but at least 1 of each needs to be noted. I don't want this to just turn into some crap Rifts Bashing or Rifts : Hug Machine for Life threads that I swear I see all the time. I would like a legitimate "What would Rifts V.2 realistically look like?"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll go first

I love the Experience Reward tables. I feel like rewards for both "Roll" playing and Roleplaying are balanced and well thought out. Roll Playing being Combat, Slain Enemies, Skill Use, etc. and Roleplaying being Formulation of Plans, Playing to Alignment, Working as a Team, etc. I don't see many systems that ask the GM/DM to award good roleplaying and planning beyond XP for kills and skills, so it feels like my players and I are being rewarded in kind for all the work we put into our characters as players and not just dice machines and number crunchers.

I don't much care for how attribute bonuses are mapped out. To be quite honest numbers between 8-15 are empty numbers. I understand that I'm supposed to be roleplaying a character here and that these numbers are supposed to be representative of my abilities when compared to others, but what is the difference between a character with an IQ of 8 and an IQ of 9, when it breaks down these are pretty much the same. If I were to increase the distance say, 8 vs. 15 supposedly the IQ 15 equals an IQ of 150, however this isn't shown well in the actual mechanics, even with 150 being extremely high. Now if I say 160 vs. 150 (IQ 16 vs. 15) suddenly the character with only a slightly higher IQ is able to learn better? 80-150 learn at the same rate, 160 suddenly a bonus. It's more than a little ridiculous. I get that we want to be NOT-D&D but I don't think having literally 8 empty numbers on an arbitrary 1-30+ scale is the way to do it. If you cut out the empty numbers (empty being no change because within 3 numbers ie. 8-9 would be the same bonus but 10 should be higher) you actually get closer to a 1-20 range for attributes, which makes more sense than what we are running with now.

[wonderdog]

some things that have won me over with rifts over the years are the combination of magic, psionics, and tech in the same setting. this let my players go in wildly different directions with their tastes. also the wide range of power scale. gotta admit i wasn't a fan of this for a long time. my definition of game just always involved an equal playing field. but its definitely won me over. the dramatic imbalance is far more realistic, in terms of a futuristic fantasy world of doom.

one of my biggest turn offs to this game tho, being bent more toward fantasy myself, is the number of world books that have the last 50 or so pages full of MORE GUNS MORE ARMOR MORE TECH in so many books? there has to be something better to do with those pages than ANOTHER 50 of guns and armor. i dont even look at those pages anymore. after 15-20 of them im completely numb to "here's civ#36's weapons and armor"

[say652]

The wide variety of characters you can create. Lightyears ahead of any competition.

I hate how often a self important jackwagon of a GM says, I wouldn't allow that in my game. Then after a well practiced spiel on gamebalance sends a Coalition armored battalion at your first level BodyFixer. Yea real cool bro.

[FluidicAztec]

The settings...they are truly imaginative. There really is a level of epic play. If you're playing a CS Samas Pilot it's you against the invading hordes; if you're a Wolfen Wilderness Scout, it's thrill of finding the next treasure; if you're an Overlord Cyborg (don't ask) it's destroying the next ungodly beast the spews from the Rifts. There is so much potential and anything can happen anywhere. The setting has more versatility than any game I've ever played (and I've played A LOT of RPGs).

I really would like to see more consistency within the books. Maybe a solid editing staff. More importantly, better message board management that didn't seem as draconian in rule enforcement. I've been following Palladium's message boards since the mid 90's, and it feels as if things have dipped to the overly critical side as to how the mods enforce the forum rules. I know in the early days it was all flame posts, but those days are gone. Unsatisfied customers should not be repressed. Especially when we pay up to $30 for a book to play make believe. Disposable income can go to many things...

Also, open a forum for Palladium Store already.

Good thread GenT!

[Colt47]

My favorite part about Rifts is the game itself has so many options fleshed out lore wise, from magic to technology. Unfortunately one of the aspects that could use a bit of work is addressing power advancement for technologically driven characters. Tech weapons tend to be set in stone in how powerful they are and while there is an upgrade system via the Operator OCC, it's somewhat limited in ability.

This doesn't mean there needs to be a strict hierarchy of "this gun is better than that gun", but there needs to be some options to increase damage output to a point, with some weapons maybe having a higher cap on upgrades then others (Northern Gun vs Triax or CS, for example). It would also breath some life into lower powered weapons, like the humble 1d6 wilks laser pistol or NG laser pistol. The weapon might be cheap and limited initially in damage, but it could also be cheap to upgrade.

Northern Gun and other manufacturers could have some kind of tinkerer packs for gun enthusiasts to overclock their weapons.

[jaymz]

1. I want at least one (1) thing that is great, fantastic, loved, or is even just pretty good about the Rifts System / Books. It can be as simple as "I prefer this cover art" or as complicated as "This is obviously the best way to resolve X because of these reasons". It can be a diamond in the rough that you wish was expanded upon but at least has great groundwork, or can even be a fully formed, explored, and developed concept.

2. However you must also provide at least one (1) thing that isn't that great or you don't much care for. Something that you feel needs to be fixed, improved, or simply removed entirely.

3. You may of course post multiple things you like, or multiple dislikes for that matter, but at least 1 of each needs to be noted. I don't want this to just turn into some crap Rifts Bashing or Rifts : Hug Machine for Life threads that I swear I see all the time. I would like a legitimate "What would Rifts V.2 realistically look like?"

1 - The sheer vast variety of what can be done or played is by far the best thing in Rifts to me.

2 - The rules. They need to be cleaned up very much. Not rewritten/overhauled as so many would like. The rules at their core are workable. They need to be compiled, cleaned up (get rid of contradictions and repetitions), better written/defined/explained, and better laid out all in one place.

[Colt47]

1. I want at least one (1) thing that is great, fantastic, loved, or is even just pretty good about the Rifts System / Books. It can be as simple as "I prefer this cover art" or as complicated as "This is obviously the best way to resolve X because of these reasons". It can be a diamond in the rough that you wish was expanded upon but at least has great groundwork, or can even be a fully formed, explored, and developed concept.

2. However you must also provide at least one (1) thing that isn't that great or you don't much care for. Something that you feel needs to be fixed, improved, or simply removed entirely.

3. You may of course post multiple things you like, or multiple dislikes for that matter, but at least 1 of each needs to be noted. I don't want this to just turn into some crap Rifts Bashing or Rifts : Hug Machine for Life threads that I swear I see all the time. I would like a legitimate "What would Rifts V.2 realistically look like?"

1 - The sheer vast variety of what can be done or played is by far the best thing in Rifts to me.

2 - The rules. They need to be cleaned up very much. Not rewritten/overhauled as so many would like. The rules at their core are workable. They need to be compiled, cleaned up (get rid of contradictions and repetitions), better written/defined/explained, and better laid out all in one place.

Rifts is kind of complicated, actually. Some systems do work in the game, but other ones need to be either revised or expanded as main features. Though when we are talking about the "Rifts" system, we are really talking about the Palladium game system itself.

[jaymz]

1. I want at least one (1) thing that is great, fantastic, loved, or is even just pretty good about the Rifts System / Books. It can be as simple as "I prefer this cover art" or as complicated as "This is obviously the best way to resolve X because of these reasons". It can be a diamond in the rough that you wish was expanded upon but at least has great groundwork, or can even be a fully formed, explored, and developed concept.

2. However you must also provide at least one (1) thing that isn't that great or you don't much care for. Something that you feel needs to be fixed, improved, or simply removed entirely.

3. You may of course post multiple things you like, or multiple dislikes for that matter, but at least 1 of each needs to be noted. I don't want this to just turn into some crap Rifts Bashing or Rifts : Hug Machine for Life threads that I swear I see all the time. I would like a legitimate "What would Rifts V.2 realistically look like?"

1 - The sheer vast variety of what can be done or played is by far the best thing in Rifts to me.

2 - The rules. They need to be cleaned up very much. Not rewritten/overhauled as so many would like. The rules at their core are workable. They need to be compiled, cleaned up (get rid of contradictions and repetitions), better written/defined/explained, and better laid out all in one place.

Rifts is kind of complicated, actually. Some systems do work in the game, but other ones need to be either revised or expanded as main features. Though when we are talking about the "Rifts" system, we are really talking about the Palladium game system itself.

Ok?

[Colt47]

1. I want at least one (1) thing that is great, fantastic, loved, or is even just pretty good about the Rifts System / Books. It can be as simple as "I prefer this cover art" or as complicated as "This is obviously the best way to resolve X because of these reasons". It can be a diamond in the rough that you wish was expanded upon but at least has great groundwork, or can even be a fully formed, explored, and developed concept.

2. However you must also provide at least one (1) thing that isn't that great or you don't much care for. Something that you feel needs to be fixed, improved, or simply removed entirely.

3. You may of course post multiple things you like, or multiple dislikes for that matter, but at least 1 of each needs to be noted. I don't want this to just turn into some crap Rifts Bashing or Rifts : Hug Machine for Life threads that I swear I see all the time. I would like a legitimate "What would Rifts V.2 realistically look like?"

1 - The sheer vast variety of what can be done or played is by far the best thing in Rifts to me.

2 - The rules. They need to be cleaned up very much. Not rewritten/overhauled as so many would like. The rules at their core are workable. They need to be compiled, cleaned up (get rid of contradictions and repetitions), better written/defined/explained, and better laid out all in one place.

Rifts is kind of complicated, actually. Some systems do work in the game, but other ones need to be either revised or expanded as main features. Though when we are talking about the "Rifts" system, we are really talking about the Palladium game system itself.

Ok?

I'm staying purposefully ambiguous because going into the nitty gritty of this subject tends to start forest fires.

[Alrik Vas]

1. I literally cannot stress enough how much everything about Rifts is grand except...

2. The rules system and numbers surrounding everything

To be a little more specific, the setting and art, the OCC fluff and the NPC's we're given to work with, everything is great. The weapons manufacturers, the cities of magic, fascist human empires, invading mechanoids and X-Bugs, Atlantis...it's all like so much candy for the imagination, it's a sugar rush that doesn't have a crash.

Then MDC and SDC, then this can hurt HP, but it inflicts mega damage, then dodge and auto-dodge are sometimes the same thing, sometimes not, then Simultaneous Attacks when mixed with paired weapons and ranged weapons, then uninterruptable chump tricks with spells, tracking APM then letting the one guy in the group with double the actions of everyone else play the game for an extra fifteen minutes every round, Standard Rate of Fire vs Standard Rate of Fire, missiles travel long ranges but you can only try to shoot them down once, Boom Gun and its effects vs other rail guns with no effects, even when the damage is approximate, explosions that don't knock down vs knock down weapons that deal damage, but not enough to knock down, movement is divorced from actions etc...

Oh, and laser bows. Just in case KC doesn't post in this thread, someone's got to mention it.

[Colt47]

1. I literally cannot stress enough how much everything about Rifts is grand except...

2. The rules system and numbers surrounding everything

To be a little more specific, the setting and art, the OCC fluff and the NPC's we're given to work with, everything is great. The weapons manufacturers, the cities of magic, fascist human empires, invading mechanoids and X-Bugs, Atlantis...it's all like so much candy for the imagination, it's a sugar rush that doesn't have a crash.

Then MDC and SDC, then this can hurt HP, but it inflicts mega damage, then dodge and auto-dodge are sometimes the same thing, sometimes not, then Simultaneous Attacks when mixed with paired weapons and ranged weapons, then uninterruptable chump tricks with spells, tracking APM then letting the one guy in the group with double the actions of everyone else play the game for an extra fifteen minutes every round, Standard Rate of Fire vs Standard Rate of Fire, missiles travel long ranges but you can only try to shoot them down once, Boom Gun and its effects vs other rail guns with no effects, even when the damage is approximate, explosions that don't knock down vs knock down weapons that deal damage, but not enough to knock down, movement is divorced from actions etc...

Oh, and laser bows. Just in case KC doesn't post in this thread, someone's got to mention it.

Naw, people who dislike laser bows have never watched Yor: Hunter from the Future! If laser bows didn't exist, a vagabond couldn't knock out a terosaur and use it as a hand-glider to drop kick a worm wraith Yor Style. Albeit the vagabond gets eaten by the worm wraith afterwards...

[cosmicfish]

I like:

The settings, the narrative, all the things that don't actually involve rolling dice. The art is great, the settings are well-developed, there are opponents and adventures suitable for every level and type of player, etc.

The all-inclusive nature of the game, that can wander from hi-tech to low, from psychic to magic to mundane to all of the above.

I don't like:

The performance capabilities of combat gear. 3 ton guns that do the same damage as 10 lb guns make no sense. Ranges are terrible. Not having any idea how much a nuclear power pack can power. This is not news to most people here, so I won't go on.

The strict rules about who can or can't do certain things. It would be awesome to have rules to allow one OCC (for example) to get a skill that is normally restricted to another OCC. Perhaps that Coalition Soldier was stationed in the New West and picked up some things, etc.

General compatibility issues between books. Minor issue, but it seems that every new set of rules has the potential for rubbing against some prior rules, and while some guidance is given, there are often gaps.

The low levels of actual improvement as characters advance. Most characters seem to progress quite poorly.

[FluidicAztec]

I like:

The settings, the narrative, all the things that don't actually involve rolling dice. The art is great, the settings are well-developed, there are opponents and adventures suitable for every level and type of player, etc.

The all-inclusive nature of the game, that can wander from hi-tech to low, from psychic to magic to mundane to all of the above.

I don't like:

The performance capabilities of combat gear. 3 ton guns that do the same damage as 10 lb guns make no sense. Ranges are terrible. Not having any idea how much a nuclear power pack can power. This is not news to most people here, so I won't go on.

The strict rules about who can or can't do certain things. It would be awesome to have rules to allow one OCC (for example) to get a skill that is normally restricted to another OCC. Perhaps that Coalition Soldier was stationed in the New West and picked up some things, etc.

General compatibility issues between books. Minor issue, but it seems that every new set of rules has the potential for rubbing against some prior rules, and while some guidance is given, there are often gaps.

The low levels of actual improvement as characters advance. Most characters seem to progress quite poorly.

People say the art is great in Rifts, and don't get me wrong, there is a lot of amazing art. It just seems like a lot is lost. Some pictures look like they might have been really cool, but somewhere along the way from artist rendering to print they got copied poorly or maybe compressed way to much. Like the Forest Runner dragon on page 161 of RUE that looks over pixelated or the Dog Boys on page 143 that look faded. I see it in a lot of Rifts books, great pictures that lost what made them great.