bull-pup rifles?

[flatline]

Here are the bull-pup rifles I'm aware of in Rifts:

AT-23 Police Stun Rifle (GMG p139)
NG-IP7 Ion Pulse Rifle (GMG p158, JU p73)
WR-10 WIlderness Ion Pistol (GMG p168)
WR-19 and WR-20 Plasma Ejector (GMG p169)

Of course, the GMG leaves out a lot of art work, so I've probably missed some. It's also possible that I've associated a picture with the wrong weapon.

Anyone aware of any that I've missed?

--flatline

[sagajr]

AT-25 Pump Grenade Launcher (bullpup laser rifle and grenade launcher) - Rifts Japan, page 130.
Q4-40 "Mule" Assault Rifle - Rifts Free Quebec, page 47.
BigBore "Universal" Variable Assault Rifle - Rifts Black Market, page 141.
LR7 Laser Rifle - Rifts Black Market, page 146.
PE-33 Plasma Ejector - Rifts Black Market, page 147.
NG-SE17 Laser Carbine - Rifts Northern Gun 1, page 196.

[Crow Splat]

I'm not at home with my books so I may be wrong but isn't the JA-12 a bullpup?

[flatline]

I'm not at home with my books so I may be wrong but isn't the JA-12 a bullpup?

Looks like it.

But it's such a large weapon that there's little benefit gained from being bull-pup. For instance, I couldn't conceal it under a trench coat.

The Triax plasma ejectors are also probably too big.

--flatline

[Jefffar]

Isn't the canister in the JA-11 behind the grip but the clip in front, thus making it a semi-bullpup?

IIRC, there are a few bullpups in the South America books.

[flatline]

I'm looking for weapons that are moderately concealable but don't have the pathetic efficiency of the typical pistol.

I'll go pull out my SA books and look at some pictures to see what I've missed by glancing through the GMG.

--flatline

[flatline]

The Lightbringer Laser Rifle (SA2 p165) is bull-pup and nice and short.

So the two best matches for what I have in mind are the Lightbringer Laser Rifle and the NG-IP7 Ion Pulse Rifle.

Unfortunately, both of those rifles suffer from what I call "bad math" where the pulse damage doesn't do the right damage. Assuming that a 3 shot pulse should do 3x the damage, the Lightbringer does a little more damage than it should and the NG-IP7 does significantly less damage than it should.

--flatline

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm not at home with my books so I may be wrong but isn't the JA-12 a bullpup?

Looks like it.

But it's such a large weapon that there's little benefit gained from being bull-pup. For instance, I couldn't conceal it under a trench coat.

The Triax plasma ejectors are also probably too big.

--flatline

Reducing the overall length on anything is an improvement. Bullpup isn't all about shortening the weapon for concealment. It is better to have a sniper rifle the length of an assault rifle. Besides why does everyone assume that all bullpups end in a rifle butt instead of something like a bazooka or some anti tank rifles? If it is done over the shoulder the overall length can be increased to allow for max barrel length:optimal accuracy, a massive buffer to reduce recoil and put the muzzle back as far as desired to reduce presented barrel. Double the length but only a quarter hangs out the window. Sure the magazine would be even further back but it's not like changing a mag on a bullpup is ergonomic anyway. Also if it is an energy weapon it doesn't matter where the e-mag goes and there wouldn't be the necessity of barrel length:accuracy or buffer. Most of the bulk of a laser weapon will be the lasing material a PB probably the accelerator which can be reduced if they use a ring instead of a straight run. I'd allow that weapon to charge shots.

[glitterboy2098]

the point of bullpups was not concealment (they still tend to be fairly big) but rather close quarters movement. they pack the same performance into a shorter frame, making it easier to use while in buildings, woods, etc. where the length of a more conventional rifle is a hindrance. a longer weapon means the angles at which you can turn is more limited when going through doors or hallways, means it is harder to take cover while also firing back, etc. the soldier basically takes up more volume. bullpups allow for normal barrel length (for good performance) in a more compact package.

[Zer0 Kay]

the point of bullpups was not concealment (they still tend to be fairly big) but rather close quarters movement. they pack the same performance into a shorter frame, making it easier to use while in buildings, woods, etc. where the length of a more conventional rifle is a hindrance. a longer weapon means the angles at which you can turn is more limited when going through doors or hallways, means it is harder to take cover while also firing back, etc. the soldier basically takes up more volume. bullpups allow for normal barrel length (for good performance) in a more compact package.

Yup. I just wonder if collapsable stalks remove the same amount of inches, making them better with a more ergonomic magazine switch.

[glitterboy2098]

collapsible/folding stocks are more to reduce the size in storage. they aren't really designed to be fired with the stock folded (at least anything other than an SMG.. and even then, the stock is recommended for better aim)

[eliakon]

Since a lot of these weapons don't have actual size stats, the size isn't canon, and there are no rules on concealment/MOUT......
It would seem that the list is a lot of guesses about what is or isn't on the list and why or why not it should be.....
Just saying.

[Jefffar]

Only rule on concealment is in the Concealment skill. If your weapon is more than 7 inches long, you can't hide it.

If you are looking for more compact weapons, remember a lot of Will's rifles are depicted as having their E-Clip slot into the pistol grip and using a folding stock. Triax FSE-Clip weapons frequently don't have a stock.

Finally, the NG-45LP offers rifle like performance in a large pistol frame.

[Killer Cyborg]

Only rule on concealment is in the Concealment skill. If your weapon is more than 7 inches long, you can't hide it.

That's what SHE said.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm a bit confused. what's the benifit of a bulpup design game wise?

[flatline]

I'm a bit confused. what's the benifit of a bulpup design game wise?

From a game mechanics point of view, I'm not aware of any. Just like how the rules don't recognize that a knife vs a sword is at a tremendous disadvantage because of the difference in reach.

But some of us have house rules that address this sort of thing.

--flatline

[Jefffar]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

[flatline]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

[Crow Splat]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

The advantage of bullpups is that you can use a more optimal barrel length of 18 to 20 inches while keeping a compact weapon. This gives you the ballistic performance of a full sized rifle while maintaining the ability to effectively maneuver in buildings and quickly dismount vehicles.

Bullpups with short barrels aren't optimal for indoor use mostly because they can cause permanent hearing loss if not suppressed and muzzle flash is so large that it can blind you if it's dark. Basically every time you pull the trigger you would be flash banging yourself.

Some of these points don't apply to energy weapons but saying a bullpup would be half the length of a traditional style weapon and still maintain performance is a bit outlandish.

[flatline]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

And yet I'd bet a bright shiny nickel that PCs have used JA-12 laser rifles for exactly that. That thing is huge!

--flatline

[Jefffar]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

The advantage of bullpups is that you can use a more optimal barrel length of 18 to 20 inches while keeping a compact weapon. This gives you the ballistic performance of a full sized rifle while maintaining the ability to effectively maneuver in buildings and quickly dismount vehicles.

Bullpups with short barrels aren't optimal for indoor use mostly because they can cause permanent hearing loss if not suppressed and muzzle flash is so large that it can blind you if it's dark. Basically every time you pull the trigger you would be flash banging yourself.

Some of these points don't apply to energy weapons but saying a bullpup would be half the length of a traditional style weapon and still maintain performance is a bit outlandish.

The M1 Garand, SMLE Mk.4, and Mauser 98K were all fairly long rifles that got used for room clearing. I know they aren't current, but once upon a time, that was the way it was done.

Actually, not that long ago either now that Ithink of it. I remember some of the police units that responded when a bunch if gunmen attacked a city in India had SMLEs. It probably takes a lot of guts to go after a guy wielding an AK when you have a bolt action rifle.

[Zer0 Kay]

Only rule on concealment is in the Concealment skill. If your weapon is more than 7 inches long, you can't hide it.

That's what SHE said.

Wow KC, just wow.

[Zer0 Kay]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

The advantage of bullpups is that you can use a more optimal barrel length of 18 to 20 inches while keeping a compact weapon. This gives you the ballistic performance of a full sized rifle while maintaining the ability to effectively maneuver in buildings and quickly dismount vehicles.

Bullpups with short barrels aren't optimal for indoor use mostly because they can cause permanent hearing loss if not suppressed and muzzle flash is so large that it can blind you if it's dark. Basically every time you pull the trigger you would be flash banging yourself.

Some of these points don't apply to energy weapons but saying a bullpup would be half the length of a traditional style weapon and still maintain performance is a bit outlandish.

The M1 Garand, SMLE Mk.4, and Mauser 98K were all fairly long rifles that got used for room clearing. I know they aren't current, but once upon a time, that was the way it was done.

Actually, not that long ago either now that Ithink of it. I remember some of the police units that responded when a bunch if gunmen attacked a city in India had SMLEs. It probably takes a lot of guts to go after a guy wielding an AK when you have a bolt action rifle.

the M-16, not a really long rifle right? But in room clearing were thought to put the stalk up over our shoulder to reduce length and increase mobility. I thought it also reduced visibility though or at least changed it.

[Zer0 Kay]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

And yet I'd bet a bright shiny nickel that PCs have used JA-12 laser rifles for exactly that. That thing is huge!

--flatline

What they don't just clear rooms with mini missiles targeted at the middle of the room or launch 40 naruni micro missiles to track down targets for them?

[Zer0 Kay]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

what you mean we shouldn't alert someone watching three feet before our face gets there?

[guardiandashi]

ok I know I am not a firearms expert... so I just pulled a couple examples of 5.56mm weapons

non bullpup design m16:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle
with a 20 inch barrel its overall length is 39.5in or basically double the barrel length.

bullpup design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_AUG
in its "standard" configuration it also has a 20inch barrel and is only 31.1 inches long IE only 11 inches longer than the barrel or ~50% longer than the barrel.

the point is due to how its constructed the barrel is essentially shoved back into the stock making the whole package smaller.

you can argue weather or not its a good design/tradeoff but obviously some people thought it had some value

[eliakon]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

And yet I'd bet a bright shiny nickel that PCs have used JA-12 laser rifles for exactly that. That thing is huge!

--flatline

Okay, I'll bite. Where are you getting the length for these weapons?
Because my books only tell me how much they weigh....

[Jefffar]

I don't think there is a quoted length for the JA-12 or most other rifts weapons.

The Grenade Launcher component is probably either 25, 30, 35 or 40mm though, so some scaling could be made based on those.

[flatline]

No rules difference.

In reality there is some advantage in the greater compactness combined with a full length barrel that bullpups have, but it really is to slight a difference to have a place in game mechanics other than possibly a reduced concealment penalty.

Going around a corner in a hallway with a rifle extending 3 feet in front of you is very different than going around the same corner with a rifle extending 18 inches in front of you.

--flatline

I know of no rifle that extends 36" in front of the user that would be used for clearing buildings. Differences in overall length are usually within 6 inches or so unless you are talking about short barreled rifles with very niche uses.

And yet I'd bet a bright shiny nickel that PCs have used JA-12 laser rifles for exactly that. That thing is huge!

--flatline

Okay, I'll bite. Where are you getting the length for these weapons?
Because my books only tell me how much they weigh....

Artwork only. Open Juicer Uprising to page 76. Imagine the head of the shooter just behind the scope and look at how much of the gun is in front of him. Now flip back to page 73 and look at the NG-IP7. There's no scope, but imagine the head of the shooter in the same position relative to the stock and handle. Look how much gun is in front of the shooter's head. If you flip back and forth a couple times (probably scaling the NG-IP7 up just a bit so the handles are similar in size), you'll see that there somewhere between 3x and 4x as much gun in front of the shooter for the JA-12 as for the NG-IP7.

Artwork isn't canon, I know, but it does influence our decisions nonetheless.

--flatline

[H.P. Hovercraft]

On a related note:

In your opinion, really how hard would it be to modify an existing energy rifle into a bull-pup configuration?

Yes, it's all heresay and conjecture since we don't exactly know how "actual" energy weapons are designed, but I can't see rearranging the layout of an ENERGY weapon's trigger, e-clip and firing mechanism to be too radically difficult for a competent gun smith.

Since much of the system is electrical, you could theoretically have the barrel and firing mechanism in one spot and both the trigger and E-clip both spaced out 100' away from it, connected only by the wires necessary (you obviously couldn't AIM the thing, nor would it be practical but that's not the point of this tirade; the point is that I don't really see why it couldn't be done).

Theoretically, nearly ANY (energy) rifle could be re-made into a bull-pup configuration...
...ideas?

Edit: This would mostly be applicable to laser and maybe ion weapons (plasma needing a bigger cooling system, as such).

[H.P. Hovercraft]

I don't think there is a quoted length for the JA-12 or most other rifts weapons.

The Grenade Launcher component is probably either 25, 30, 35 or 40mm though, so some scaling could be made based on those.

Honestly, a listed length would be nice in the books (at least roughly).

[Nightmask]

So, for those of us who don't know what a Bull-pup configuration/appearance is, could someone who does please enlighten us?

[glitterboy2098]

here is a picture guide

a bullpup design basically shifts around where the various parts of the weapon are so that the action and magazine are behind the grip/trigger, basically inside the buttstock.

on a regular rifle the action and magazine are in front of the grip/trigger, and the buttstock has little to nothing in it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ah, I see. so basically a Bullpup is just a way to shorten the gun to make handling it easier without sacrafising barrel length.

Do Bullpups have the same range as a full sized rifle?

[glitterboy2098]

pretty much. though sometimes they have balance issues that reduces actual useful range.

[Jefffar]

Ah, I see. so basically a Bullpup is just a way to shorten the gun to make handling it easier without sacrafising barrel length..

Do Bullpups have the same range as a full sized rifle?

If the barrel lengths are the same, the effective range is generally the same.

However a recent trend in western armies has been to make short barreled rifles the standard issue in order to decrease the overall length of the weapon. As bullpups are already short in overall length, they tend to keep the full length barrel resulting in a range advantage over the now short barreled weapons of conventional design.

It can be quite a sizable difference. The American M4 is the standard issue weapon for the US army now. Its effective range is about 25 to 33% less than the range of the old full sized M16A3 or of bullpups like the British L85A2, French FAMAS G2 or Austrian Steyr AUG.

Another handy use for bullpups is in long range rifles. Those need longer barrels for greater accuracy and range. By going bullpup, the weapon doesn't need to be so long.

[Rallan]

pretty much. though sometimes they have balance issues that reduces actual useful range.

And they're mechanically fiddlier because the trigger is well forward of the rest of the firing mechanism and is connected by some kind of doovilackey, so there's slightly more things that can go wrong (especially if the gun's not well maintained).

[Zer0 Kay]

On a related note:

In your opinion, really how hard would it be to modify an existing energy rifle into a bull-pup configuration?

Yes, it's all heresay and conjecture since we don't exactly know how "actual" energy weapons are designed, but I can't see rearranging the layout of an ENERGY weapon's trigger, e-clip and firing mechanism to be too radically difficult for a competent gun smith.

Since much of the system is electrical, you could theoretically have the barrel and firing mechanism in one spot and both the trigger and E-clip both spaced out 100' away from it, connected only by the wires necessary (you obviously couldn't AIM the thing, nor would it be practical but that's not the point of this tirade; the point is that I don't really see why it couldn't be done).

Theoretically, nearly ANY (energy) rifle could be re-made into a bull-pup configuration...
...ideas?

Edit: This would mostly be applicable to laser and maybe ion weapons (plasma needing a bigger cooling system, as such).

No... All of the energy weapons including railguns should be an easy modification. The issue would be that the body of the weapons are like a single molded piece. So it would be just unscrewing the pistol grip and relocating it.

[Nekira Sudacne]

pretty much. though sometimes they have balance issues that reduces actual useful range.

And they're mechanically fiddlier because the trigger is well forward of the rest of the firing mechanism and is connected by some kind of doovilackey, so there's slightly more things that can go wrong (especially if the gun's not well maintained).

Well it's not like palladium ever had maitance rules

[Zer0 Kay]

pretty much. though sometimes they have balance issues that reduces actual useful range.

And they're mechanically fiddlier because the trigger is well forward of the rest of the firing mechanism and is connected by some kind of doovilackey, so there's slightly more things that can go wrong (especially if the gun's not well maintained).

Well it's not like palladium ever had maitance rules

Well... Kinda only in that the w.p. Skills give that knowledge. So another drawback of not taking a WP should be the gradual degradation of the weapon till it just won't work.

[Nightmask]

here is a picture guide

a bullpup design basically shifts around where the various parts of the weapon are so that the action and magazine are behind the grip/trigger, basically inside the buttstock.

on a regular rifle the action and magazine are in front of the grip/trigger, and the buttstock has little to nothing in it.

Ah, that's very helpful! Thanks.

[glitterboy2098]

pretty much. though sometimes they have balance issues that reduces actual useful range.

And they're mechanically fiddlier because the trigger is well forward of the rest of the firing mechanism and is connected by some kind of doovilackey, so there's slightly more things that can go wrong (especially if the gun's not well maintained).

Well it's not like palladium ever had maitance rules

Well... Kinda only in that the w.p. Skills give that knowledge. So another drawback of not taking a WP should be the gradual degradation of the weapon till it just won't work.

what nekira means is that palladium doesn't have any rules to specify what happens when you don't maintain your gear.

[Zer0 Kay]

pretty much. though sometimes they have balance issues that reduces actual useful range.

And they're mechanically fiddlier because the trigger is well forward of the rest of the firing mechanism and is connected by some kind of doovilackey, so there's slightly more things that can go wrong (especially if the gun's not well maintained).

Well it's not like palladium ever had maitance rules

Well... Kinda only in that the w.p. Skills give that knowledge. So another drawback of not taking a WP should be the gradual degradation of the weapon till it just won't work.

what nekira means is that palladium doesn't have any rules to specify what happens when you don't maintain your gear.

Oh... sorry I couldn't find the facitious emote.

[Crow Splat]

On a related note:

In your opinion, really how hard would it be to modify an existing energy rifle into a bull-pup configuration?

Yes, it's all heresay and conjecture since we don't exactly know how "actual" energy weapons are designed, but I can't see rearranging the layout of an ENERGY weapon's trigger, e-clip and firing mechanism to be too radically difficult for a competent gun smith.

Since much of the system is electrical, you could theoretically have the barrel and firing mechanism in one spot and both the trigger and E-clip both spaced out 100' away from it, connected only by the wires necessary (you obviously couldn't AIM the thing, nor would it be practical but that's not the point of this tirade; the point is that I don't really see why it couldn't be done).

Theoretically, nearly ANY (energy) rifle could be re-made into a bull-pup configuration...
...ideas?

Edit: This would mostly be applicable to laser and maybe ion weapons (plasma needing a bigger cooling system, as such).

I would wager a bullpup conversion would be extremely easy to a competent machinist.

There are bullpup conversions for modern firearms out there now. All you have to do is remove all of the non-essential bits (the stock on most rifles is dead space anyway) and build a new housing and a linkage for a new trigger mounted farther forward to actuate the stock trigger mechanism.

There was a company called Center Balance something that made them for Russian military style rifles. I don't know if they are still in business but they had lots of pictures and videos explaining how simple it was to convert.

ETA: www.cbrps.com

[Nekira Sudacne]

On a related note:

In your opinion, really how hard would it be to modify an existing energy rifle into a bull-pup configuration?

Yes, it's all heresay and conjecture since we don't exactly know how "actual" energy weapons are designed, but I can't see rearranging the layout of an ENERGY weapon's trigger, e-clip and firing mechanism to be too radically difficult for a competent gun smith.

Since much of the system is electrical, you could theoretically have the barrel and firing mechanism in one spot and both the trigger and E-clip both spaced out 100' away from it, connected only by the wires necessary (you obviously couldn't AIM the thing, nor would it be practical but that's not the point of this tirade; the point is that I don't really see why it couldn't be done).

Theoretically, nearly ANY (energy) rifle could be re-made into a bull-pup configuration...
...ideas?

Edit: This would mostly be applicable to laser and maybe ion weapons (plasma needing a bigger cooling system, as such).

I would wager a bullpup conversion would be extremely easy to a competent machinist.

There are bullpup conversions for modern firearms out there now. All you have to do is remove all of the non-essential bits (the stock on most rifles is dead space anyway) and build a new housing and a linkage for a new trigger mounted farther forward to actuate the stock trigger mechanism.

There was a company called Center Balance something that made them for Russian military style rifles. I don't know if they are still in business but they had lots of pictures and videos explaining how simple it was to convert.

ETA: http://www.cbrps.com

Technically, converting to a Bullpup is a weapons engineer skill roll, not mechanical engineer

[Nox Equites]

For energy weapons it should be infinitely easier to make a bullpup modification. The only real mechanical piece is the trigger and that is a hold over from firearms. You could have a simple button instead of a trigger, which for energy weapons merely completes a circuit, and improve reliability a touch. Hey, no concern that a twig will fire your weapon when going through brush.

[Jefffar]

I'm honestly surprised we don't see more forearm blaster style energy weapons in Rifts. Or helmet mounted ones. I'd think that mist of the components of an energy pistol would be able to be integrated into a standard body armor without great difficulty.

Energy rifles could be built into all sorts of weird and wonderful shapes as well, but we only really see the FSE-Clip designs as the major new innovation. A weapon configured like the FN-P90 would make a lot of sense and be easy to do as an energy weapon.

[flatline]

I'm honestly surprised we don't see more forearm blaster style energy weapons in Rifts. Or helmet mounted ones. I'd think that mist of the components of an energy pistol would be able to be integrated into a standard body armor without great difficulty.

Energy rifles could be built into all sorts of weird and wonderful shapes as well, but we only really see the FSE-Clip designs as the major new innovation. A weapon configured like the FN-P90 would make a lot of sense and be easy to do as an energy weapon.

Forarm weapons are hard (impossible?) to sight down, so I would think they would have some sort of penalty to hit a target very far away (maybe just a generic penalty to hit with beyond melee range?).

--flatline

[Nekira Sudacne]

I'm honestly surprised we don't see more forearm blaster style energy weapons in Rifts. Or helmet mounted ones. I'd think that mist of the components of an energy pistol would be able to be integrated into a standard body armor without great difficulty.

Energy rifles could be built into all sorts of weird and wonderful shapes as well, but we only really see the FSE-Clip designs as the major new innovation. A weapon configured like the FN-P90 would make a lot of sense and be easy to do as an energy weapon.

Cyborgs have them as an option to be built-in.

the real issue is as Flatline said, they are extremely hard to aim properly without computerized targeting. Borgs have software installed to handle it, a human would need an entirely new WP. they come in rifle flavors because people already know how to use them, no military wants to re-train every grunt unless there's been a fundamental technological leap forward that makes previous weaponry obsolete. and forearm blasters are not really better than rifles damage/range wise, just slightly easier to carry.

[eliakon]

I'm honestly surprised we don't see more forearm blaster style energy weapons in Rifts. Or helmet mounted ones. I'd think that mist of the components of an energy pistol would be able to be integrated into a standard body armor without great difficulty.

Energy rifles could be built into all sorts of weird and wonderful shapes as well, but we only really see the FSE-Clip designs as the major new innovation. A weapon configured like the FN-P90 would make a lot of sense and be easy to do as an energy weapon.

Cyborgs have them as an option to be built-in.

the real issue is as Flatline said, they are extremely hard to aim properly without computerized targeting. Borgs have software installed to handle it, a human would need an entirely new WP. they come in rifle flavors because people already know how to use them, no military wants to re-train every grunt unless there's been a fundamental technological leap forward that makes previous weaponry obsolete. and forearm blasters are not really better than rifles damage/range wise, just slightly easier to carry.

And of course there is the very important reason.....the players expect rifles to look like rifles.
Sure a laser could look like a flashlight ...but that's not what the player expects... so we get rifles that look like rifles. Regardless of if they need to.