Killer Cyborg wrote:The use of salt and burning the bones and such, though? They'd be all about that.
Maybe they could just cut out the part with the exorcism rituals? Edit out offensive stuff kind of like what happened with a lot of earlier anime dubs ported to the west?
I could see them leaving in the demon-blood stuff, because even though that's stuff the CS hates, Supernatural clearly paints a downside to it.
I'd probably leave out the stuff about "you can cure a vampire so long as they don't drink human blood after turning" thing though, or the 'dead man's blood' thing, since either of those could give people the wrong idea about vampires and be dangerous.
Or, if they didn't take it out, maybe include interlude warnings where a CS authority notifies the audience that this was superstition and is confirmed to not work, so kill all vamps, don't try to save them, and don't try dead man's blood, simple water guns work better.
Nightmask wrote:they don't impose order on a chaotic world
they introduce more chaos and reduce the degree of order in the world.
You don't think that going around randomly killing people for being different actually creates order do you?
Since they kill people for specific reasons (being supernatural, being wizards, being shapechangers, etc) it is hardly "random".
Also yes, I do think it increases the level of order, making it less chaotic.
It would be incredibly disorderly to live in a society infested with changelings and dragons. You could not easily hold them accountable for crimes and it would allow them to frame others for crimes very easily.
Having people who can 1-hit you through the chest is also pretty chaotic. People would live in fear.
Nightmask wrote:Did the Tolkeen war create more order or did it in fact create massive amounts of chaos and uncertainty and increase the threat of harm to everyone in North America?
It removed a haven for demons and magical terrorists, that's a decrease in chaos and an increase in certainty.
Mark Hall wrote:The only way to argue that the CS is not the bad guy is to accept their central premise, that humans are the only ones with a right to life while on Earth, and that all other life must be destroyed or forced back through the rifts.
I don't agree this to be a central premise of the CS. Viewing humans as the rightful rulers of earth whose well-being should be prioritized doesn't require destroying 'all other life'.
The CS allows D-Bee slaves, mutant servants, is allied to a nation with D-Bee citizens and considering an alliance with dwarven techno-wizard citizens.
Mark Hall wrote:You have to accept that non-humans cannot live with humans, are inherently inimical to them, and that magic cannot be used to the benefit of humanity and its allies.
Where does the CS claim magic can't be used to the benefit of humanity?
It's simply got a lot of downsides and now isn't the time to be allowing its use.
Mark Hall wrote:you run into a problem... namely, the states that exist that integrate humans, non-humans, and/or magic. Cities like Lazlo and Houstown. Nations like the NDR or England. If the Coalition's central premise is correct, then these nations cannot exist. That these nations do exist means that the Coalition is wrong, and murdering lots of people out of a reactionary racism and technophobia.
You want to hold up England, a nation with a puppet king controlled by an alien intelligence, as an example of how things ought to be?
We know too little about Lazlo to judge its quality of life. As for NDR, they booted the D-Bees and they are clearly ranked below humans even when they are rarely allowed to be citizens.
Mark Hall wrote:they're surrounded by nations who disprove their ideas, and cling to them anyway.
I haven't seen one nation that properly disproves the necessity of a human supremist ideal to secure human interests in a world filled with things more powerful than us.
Nightmask wrote:chaos is chaos. The actions of the CS created only chaos not order by any definition of the words.
The millions of humans this nation has allowed to exist speak otherwise.
Human peasants simply do not thrive in large numbers in the true chaos of Rifts, such as the wildernesses. They get eaten by Spiny Ravagers and stuff.
The CS is actually probably the most orderly, least chaotic place in North America, I would wager.
eliakon wrote:the fact that the CS makes chaos or order has nothing at all to do if they are good or bad
Agreed, I guess Alrik's initial comment didn't go far enough.
It is more than order: it is an order which benefits the survival of innocent mostly-defenseless humans who would have otherwise died, that sounds good to me.
Nightmask wrote:they didn't bring about any order, they only created more chaos, and they certainly didn't increase the level of order or safety within their borders they decreased it.
Source?
Nightmask wrote:Going with the most common example when they attacked and destroyed Tolkeen they generated a great deal of chaos and uncertainty that increased the threat level to those living in its borders since they destroyed a group that had been creating order in the area replacing it with not just chaos but chaos with a reason to go after members of the CS.
Tolkeen already had a reason to go after the CS. They were already attacking all CS presences in Minnesota even when the CS were not attacking them.
Attacking an enemy can always create some chaos but that can be a good choice in the long term.
Technically confronting the Axis Powers in World War 2 also increased chaos. It would have been less chaotic to simply allow them to hold the territory they conquered. Chaos isn't always bad if it is a means to long-term good.
Nightmask wrote:The chaos the CS creates does not benefit its people at all, it does not increase the level of order or safety in its borders no matter what they might claim ICly.
Source?
Nightmask wrote:1) They didn't consolidate their territories, they went and conquered other people's territories
The CS has actually done both. Not every consolidated territory is conquering, many were voluntary allies who petitioned to join.
Nightmask wrote:nor did they improve the defense of the cities or the CS in general running around killing people just for existing because it makes everyone want to kill THEM that otherwise wouldn't have desired to do so.
So you think the fortress cities in the CS and the ISS preventing Boogie-Men and Neuron Beasts from eating people in their sleep doesn't protect them?
Nightmask wrote:2) You're reaching, particularly if you're trying to rate the entire existence of the CS as a positive thing in providing order, while dismissing all the order generated by everyone else that they killed thereby removing that order.
The original Federation of Magic had some semblance of order, but it was order based on evil dueling wizards rulling over people, not something that looks out for the well-being of the people. It is okay to introduce brief chaos in a war to defeat evil.
Tolkeen also were clearly not an orderly city/nation, they were introducing many chaotic elements.
Nightmask wrote:3) They caused one of their own member states to leave due to their aggressive efforts to force control onto everyone, that generated DISorder not order.
Free Quebec was guilty of introducing disorder by not conforming to military regulations and by not accepting adequate anti-supernatural protections via Dog Boys. They were leaving the back door open to supernatural domination and had to be brought to line for the good of the people. Otherwise wizards from Lazlo could just saunter in and start casting Domination on everyone.
Nightmask wrote:4) Something anyone could do, the CS isn't indispensable. Meanwhile how many destructive rift events did they cause in attacking and destroying Tolkeen? Far too many.
Look at all the chaos the United States caused by invading Germany and Japan! Look at all the destruction of the land and property!