The Use of A.I. in Rifts
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
- darthauthor
- Champion
- Posts: 1905
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:55 pm
The Use of A.I. in Rifts
Posting to get some feedback.
I was reading up on the skill Artificial Intelligence in Rifts Ultimate Edition.
An idea came to me. How about an Operator or a Rogue Scientist puts together an A.I. drone as their version of a Spell casters Familiar but it is more like a summoned entity or monster.
The drone can advance in levels as the player character advances and can do more for the Operator/Rogue Scientist and itself as they gain experience and improved programming from its operator.
However, do to the fear of AI going rogue, living forever by coping and saving itself, that arming it would enevitably lead to an AI killing a human even if only in defending its master or itself.
Starting IQ & M.A. : That of its programming Operator/Rogue Scientist
Special R.C.C. Bonuses & Abilities: Pick one at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15
Disease Diagnostic Specialist: From Body Fixer O.C.C.
Install Bionics: From Cyber-Doc O.C.C.
Jury-Rig Repairs: From Operator O.C.C.
Repair and Soup-Up Machines: From Operator O.C.C.
Storyteller & Teaher: From Rogue Scholar O.C.C.
Analyze: From Rogue Scientist O.C.C.
Eyeball a Fella: From Vagabond O.C.C.
Cartography: From Wilderness Scout O.C.C.
Starting Alignment: Principled and obeident to its creator/user.
Plus select three additional skills at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12 from any skill category except Physical. All new skills start at level 1 and with +20% + IQ bonuses
R.C.C Skills
Level 1 - Skills @ +20%:
Computer Operation, Electronic: Countermeasures, Hacking, Intelligence, Languages, Literacy, Basic & Adv: Math 100%, Land Navigation, Optic Systems, Radio: Basic, Research, Sensory Equipment, Tailing, T.V./Video
Plus ALL of the Lore skills of the Operator or Rogue Scientist who created the AI.
Level - 1 : Technological equivalent of psionics:
I.S.P.: (None, Automatic): Sense Time, Speed Reading, Telemechanics, Total Recall
For Self Defense, AI is considered to have Cyber-Knight Zen Combat at its current level.
Level - 3
Can shift alignment to Scrupulous. "If I did not lie they would have killed my friend and master."
Bonuses: +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Telemechanics Mental Operation & Machine Ghost (*auto and without ISP cost)
Detects ALL illusions, undead, vampires, and such as false representations of real life.
Level - 6
Can shift alignment to Unprincipled. "An unjust law is no law at all."
Bonuses: Another +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Telemechanics Paralysis*
Electrokinesis*
Level - 9
Can shift alignment to Anarchist. "Why should I? What's in it for me?"
Bonuses: Another +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Telemechanic Possession*
Level - 12
Can Shift alignment to Miscreant. "Why shouldn't I do what's best for me?"
Bonuses: Again +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Overmind*Capable of capable of controlling other artifically intelligent machines. Battle of wills with the likes of Archie 3
I was reading up on the skill Artificial Intelligence in Rifts Ultimate Edition.
An idea came to me. How about an Operator or a Rogue Scientist puts together an A.I. drone as their version of a Spell casters Familiar but it is more like a summoned entity or monster.
The drone can advance in levels as the player character advances and can do more for the Operator/Rogue Scientist and itself as they gain experience and improved programming from its operator.
However, do to the fear of AI going rogue, living forever by coping and saving itself, that arming it would enevitably lead to an AI killing a human even if only in defending its master or itself.
Starting IQ & M.A. : That of its programming Operator/Rogue Scientist
Special R.C.C. Bonuses & Abilities: Pick one at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15
Disease Diagnostic Specialist: From Body Fixer O.C.C.
Install Bionics: From Cyber-Doc O.C.C.
Jury-Rig Repairs: From Operator O.C.C.
Repair and Soup-Up Machines: From Operator O.C.C.
Storyteller & Teaher: From Rogue Scholar O.C.C.
Analyze: From Rogue Scientist O.C.C.
Eyeball a Fella: From Vagabond O.C.C.
Cartography: From Wilderness Scout O.C.C.
Starting Alignment: Principled and obeident to its creator/user.
Plus select three additional skills at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12 from any skill category except Physical. All new skills start at level 1 and with +20% + IQ bonuses
R.C.C Skills
Level 1 - Skills @ +20%:
Computer Operation, Electronic: Countermeasures, Hacking, Intelligence, Languages, Literacy, Basic & Adv: Math 100%, Land Navigation, Optic Systems, Radio: Basic, Research, Sensory Equipment, Tailing, T.V./Video
Plus ALL of the Lore skills of the Operator or Rogue Scientist who created the AI.
Level - 1 : Technological equivalent of psionics:
I.S.P.: (None, Automatic): Sense Time, Speed Reading, Telemechanics, Total Recall
For Self Defense, AI is considered to have Cyber-Knight Zen Combat at its current level.
Level - 3
Can shift alignment to Scrupulous. "If I did not lie they would have killed my friend and master."
Bonuses: +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Telemechanics Mental Operation & Machine Ghost (*auto and without ISP cost)
Detects ALL illusions, undead, vampires, and such as false representations of real life.
Level - 6
Can shift alignment to Unprincipled. "An unjust law is no law at all."
Bonuses: Another +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Telemechanics Paralysis*
Electrokinesis*
Level - 9
Can shift alignment to Anarchist. "Why should I? What's in it for me?"
Bonuses: Another +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Telemechanic Possession*
Level - 12
Can Shift alignment to Miscreant. "Why shouldn't I do what's best for me?"
Bonuses: Again +3 to IQ and +3 M.A. attributes, +3 on Perception Rolls
Overmind*Capable of capable of controlling other artifically intelligent machines. Battle of wills with the likes of Archie 3
Last edited by darthauthor on Thu Apr 27, 2023 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- taalismn
- Priest
- Posts: 48631
- Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:19 pm
- Location: Somewhere between Heaven, Hell, and New England
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
Interesting...It's a fun take on the (Faithful?) Robot Companion.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
SB1r sets out the rules for creating the various types of robots, including drones, AI, NI and TI.
HoH describes the Skelebot Specialist which could serve as an alternative model for a character that has the skills to embark on making or upgrading their own personal assistant, assuming they have the tools and resources. Their close work with drones may give them an understanding that the average operator may not have.
AIs and NIs are constrained by their skill programs. However, you should probably use the Robot RCC in SB1r to track how the robots "level up", establish alignments, and determine bonuses. In fact, most of what you propose is covered already in the RCC.
It is also clear in the text that AIs and NIs are the product of Archie or a non-Earth source. Current human operators or scientists do not have the capability to develop AIs or NIs. However, there is always the possibility that a faulty prototype may escape from Lone Star or a secret basement lab of a rogue engineer. So Rifts Earth humans would typically be limited to drones, see drones used by NGR, NG or CS.
Can specialized drones be leveraged as assistants? Yes, see examples in Triax 2, NG 2 or HoH. Triax 1 even has NGR Gargoyle drones for espionage.
Can drones have personality emulation programs? Yes, see Triax 2.
Can drones evolve as their creator grows in experience? Not according to the rules, as drones do not level up with experience like AIs or NIs. However, the effect could be the result of the operator/scientist constantly tinkering and incrementally mucking up the software. Would probably require skill rolls to get desired effects or just to avoid negative abnormities. If an AI or NI, their experience should be independent of their creator - just use the Robot RCC.
Should drones be armed? Could they kill people? Most combat models already are and do... and, on Rifts Earth, frequently.
HoH describes the Skelebot Specialist which could serve as an alternative model for a character that has the skills to embark on making or upgrading their own personal assistant, assuming they have the tools and resources. Their close work with drones may give them an understanding that the average operator may not have.
AIs and NIs are constrained by their skill programs. However, you should probably use the Robot RCC in SB1r to track how the robots "level up", establish alignments, and determine bonuses. In fact, most of what you propose is covered already in the RCC.
It is also clear in the text that AIs and NIs are the product of Archie or a non-Earth source. Current human operators or scientists do not have the capability to develop AIs or NIs. However, there is always the possibility that a faulty prototype may escape from Lone Star or a secret basement lab of a rogue engineer. So Rifts Earth humans would typically be limited to drones, see drones used by NGR, NG or CS.
Can specialized drones be leveraged as assistants? Yes, see examples in Triax 2, NG 2 or HoH. Triax 1 even has NGR Gargoyle drones for espionage.
Can drones have personality emulation programs? Yes, see Triax 2.
Can drones evolve as their creator grows in experience? Not according to the rules, as drones do not level up with experience like AIs or NIs. However, the effect could be the result of the operator/scientist constantly tinkering and incrementally mucking up the software. Would probably require skill rolls to get desired effects or just to avoid negative abnormities. If an AI or NI, their experience should be independent of their creator - just use the Robot RCC.
Should drones be armed? Could they kill people? Most combat models already are and do... and, on Rifts Earth, frequently.
- darthauthor
- Champion
- Posts: 1905
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:55 pm
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
Thanks Grazzik,
It seems I was making something up and it has already been covered.
It's sad. What is the science skill "Artificial Intelligence" good for then if one cannot create an actual artificial intelligence?
What I made up I was trying to find a balance in favor of the operator/rogue scientist like to that of the spell caster who can summon a shadow beast or a familair.
I keep getting stuck thinking what someone can do with "artificial intelligence" skill.
It seems I was making something up and it has already been covered.
It's sad. What is the science skill "Artificial Intelligence" good for then if one cannot create an actual artificial intelligence?
What I made up I was trying to find a balance in favor of the operator/rogue scientist like to that of the spell caster who can summon a shadow beast or a familair.
I keep getting stuck thinking what someone can do with "artificial intelligence" skill.
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
What many may think of when AI is discussed is a 1980s concept of the Terminator... the technological golem. Artificial intelligence is really a much broader term that encompasses more than a computer with legs... we have internets now. Think much more creatively.
Some examples:
- Digital ghosts, like algorithms in digital landscapes, that can make inferences or have hunches or even get sick (watch Altered Carbon where AIs start deteriorating).
- Companions that have no real higher purpose or function, but still are somewhat autonomous to bring a smile to someone's face (watch the original Blade Runner movie). Perhaps a travelling circus of unthinking AI clowns...
- Embedded personalities of dead people that interact and perhaps have a particular specialized function (read Rogue Trooper comic).
- Advanced data retrieval apps that perhaps through sensors (bio/enviro/contextual/etc.) anticipate a user's need to have data ready and augments a person's writing, art, math, research or netwise skills.
- Automated factories that can schedule and perform complex tasks based on trending data coming from warehouses, distribution centers, and socials. Doesn't Walmart and Amazon already do this?
The point of AI is not just to make a calculator into a mechanical feeling brain, it is to make lesser machines be perceived by people as an intelligence akin to a person. The Tin Man will never have a heart - but people will think he is sad when he leaks. That is why many chatbots and AIs today are given silly names - to help people anthropomorphize the machine and hide the fact that they are nothing more than utility functions in software. And AI is not programming to achieve X in the same way the programmer tells regular code to do a sequence of things... adaptive code is the premise of AI where it empowers the code to figure out stuff based on the data available and may end up doing things not intended (like make inferences about one's food preferences based on the TV shows one watches)... but even Archie has its limits and needs people as a muse to have creative ideas.
So, what's the value of the AI skill in Rifts... excluding alien tech? First off, it depends on your game setting. It is useless in the middle of the woods hunting deer for dinner. Second, it isn't something that is done on the run unless you treat it like a lore skill. PCs need to do the work and have access to resources. That said...
- Perhaps the skill imparts an understanding of how security 'bots react to hackers in cyberspace and helps anticipate digital ambushes by these 'bots
- Certainly applicable to work on drones and, as mentioned, the skill may need to be rolled whenever working on the drone's primary operating system to avoid... quirks. Perhaps programmers could do the same, but a drone's operating system is so much more than a simple program that a heavy modifier would likely be applied in the absence of the AI skill.
- Perhaps the campaign is to hunt down runaway AI experiments and bring them back in one piece for study, so the AI skill would help trackers to anticipate the AI's next move, attack or hiding place
- Pre-Rifts AIs may still be out there hiding on an old iPhone and so the AI skill may help in communicating with it when it wakes up
- Perhaps build AI algos that track, monitor and interpret communications or sensor data to provide prognostications on when the next CS raid may be or when public sentiment may erupt into the next DBee riot... fail your roll and the algo might send the heroes to the wrong place at the wrong time. "The AI says there's a fusion block in that 5 year old's birthday cake..."
- Offer serenity to the anxious and add an AI to a juicer's bio comp to disable their inner hypochondriac. Have the AI kick in when it senses distraction resulting from any concern over the juicer's impending Last Call, let it provide assurances that all is well... or that the juicer better defeat that dragon soon because the bio comp's data says ya gots ten minutes left....
- Add an AI to a sound system that can interpret sentiment analysis based on vocal and non-vocal cues and now you have an adaptive DJ who keeps the party going for days, and the BM drug dealers make a killing... can the heroes use their AI wiles to disrupt the AI's algo and break up the party?
So any skill, even one as niche as AI, can be useful if the GM crafts a scenario where PCs find utility in the skill. This particular skill is technical, psychological, a lore, and ripe for abuse by a GM who wants to add chaos to a story through the magic of a failed roll.
Some examples:
- Digital ghosts, like algorithms in digital landscapes, that can make inferences or have hunches or even get sick (watch Altered Carbon where AIs start deteriorating).
- Companions that have no real higher purpose or function, but still are somewhat autonomous to bring a smile to someone's face (watch the original Blade Runner movie). Perhaps a travelling circus of unthinking AI clowns...
- Embedded personalities of dead people that interact and perhaps have a particular specialized function (read Rogue Trooper comic).
- Advanced data retrieval apps that perhaps through sensors (bio/enviro/contextual/etc.) anticipate a user's need to have data ready and augments a person's writing, art, math, research or netwise skills.
- Automated factories that can schedule and perform complex tasks based on trending data coming from warehouses, distribution centers, and socials. Doesn't Walmart and Amazon already do this?
The point of AI is not just to make a calculator into a mechanical feeling brain, it is to make lesser machines be perceived by people as an intelligence akin to a person. The Tin Man will never have a heart - but people will think he is sad when he leaks. That is why many chatbots and AIs today are given silly names - to help people anthropomorphize the machine and hide the fact that they are nothing more than utility functions in software. And AI is not programming to achieve X in the same way the programmer tells regular code to do a sequence of things... adaptive code is the premise of AI where it empowers the code to figure out stuff based on the data available and may end up doing things not intended (like make inferences about one's food preferences based on the TV shows one watches)... but even Archie has its limits and needs people as a muse to have creative ideas.
So, what's the value of the AI skill in Rifts... excluding alien tech? First off, it depends on your game setting. It is useless in the middle of the woods hunting deer for dinner. Second, it isn't something that is done on the run unless you treat it like a lore skill. PCs need to do the work and have access to resources. That said...
- Perhaps the skill imparts an understanding of how security 'bots react to hackers in cyberspace and helps anticipate digital ambushes by these 'bots
- Certainly applicable to work on drones and, as mentioned, the skill may need to be rolled whenever working on the drone's primary operating system to avoid... quirks. Perhaps programmers could do the same, but a drone's operating system is so much more than a simple program that a heavy modifier would likely be applied in the absence of the AI skill.
- Perhaps the campaign is to hunt down runaway AI experiments and bring them back in one piece for study, so the AI skill would help trackers to anticipate the AI's next move, attack or hiding place
- Pre-Rifts AIs may still be out there hiding on an old iPhone and so the AI skill may help in communicating with it when it wakes up
- Perhaps build AI algos that track, monitor and interpret communications or sensor data to provide prognostications on when the next CS raid may be or when public sentiment may erupt into the next DBee riot... fail your roll and the algo might send the heroes to the wrong place at the wrong time. "The AI says there's a fusion block in that 5 year old's birthday cake..."
- Offer serenity to the anxious and add an AI to a juicer's bio comp to disable their inner hypochondriac. Have the AI kick in when it senses distraction resulting from any concern over the juicer's impending Last Call, let it provide assurances that all is well... or that the juicer better defeat that dragon soon because the bio comp's data says ya gots ten minutes left....
- Add an AI to a sound system that can interpret sentiment analysis based on vocal and non-vocal cues and now you have an adaptive DJ who keeps the party going for days, and the BM drug dealers make a killing... can the heroes use their AI wiles to disrupt the AI's algo and break up the party?
So any skill, even one as niche as AI, can be useful if the GM crafts a scenario where PCs find utility in the skill. This particular skill is technical, psychological, a lore, and ripe for abuse by a GM who wants to add chaos to a story through the magic of a failed roll.
-
- Hero
- Posts: 1437
- Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:21 am
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
I would say that according to the core rifts lore, NPC's don't have the capability to create true AI's NI's, or transferred intelligences on purpose.
Archie CAN but thats due to plot reasons.
with that said PC's can potentially create or modify intelligences IF the GM allows it in their campaign. with that said there is the whole issue of what is really the difference between a "robot intelligence, and an AI?
at a fundamental level its the jump from a program that can only run a program (very advanced) and respond to predetermined "best fit" scenarios. and a program that can update and respond to situations and scenarios that its creators never thought of.
so the AI programming skill is really intended for characters to create and or modify existing programs to add additional capabilities
Archie CAN but thats due to plot reasons.
with that said PC's can potentially create or modify intelligences IF the GM allows it in their campaign. with that said there is the whole issue of what is really the difference between a "robot intelligence, and an AI?
at a fundamental level its the jump from a program that can only run a program (very advanced) and respond to predetermined "best fit" scenarios. and a program that can update and respond to situations and scenarios that its creators never thought of.
so the AI programming skill is really intended for characters to create and or modify existing programs to add additional capabilities
- jaymz
- Palladin
- Posts: 8456
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:33 pm
- Comment: Yeah yeah yeah just give me my damn XP already :)
- Location: Peterborough, Ontario
- Contact:
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
I don't see why a character, over the course of several adventures or campaign, couldn't create an AI of at least the basic level. All they need are parts, software, and the right skills.
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
Email - jlaflamme7521@hotmail.com, Facebook - Jaymz LaFlamme, Robotech.com - Icerzone
\m/
- darthauthor
- Champion
- Posts: 1905
- Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:55 pm
Re: The Use of A.I. in Rifts
Jaymz,
I agree
I agree