3 galaxies ship building

[Svartalf]

is there anything like a comprehensive system for building space ships for Rifts, 3 galaxies?

I mean, PhW and 3 Galaxies contain descriptions of various items of weaponry and ship drive, but I don't think I've seen anything covering such stuff as hull size, displacement, ship damage capacity, required crew, cargo and passenger capacity... the sample ships provided in those and in PhW Sourcebook are far from enough for me to extrapolate from there.

I already know there is a ship building system in the AU Galagy Guide, but I've noticed a number of incompatibilities... (if only the fact that the slowest 3 galaxies ship still has a better FTL speed than the fastest AUGG one... and I've not run serious comparisons concerning conventional speed and armaments/damage capacity, as I'm not sure the transition from an SDC system to an MDC one can be made gracefully).

has anybody studied the system presented in Rifts Manhunter? would the ships made using it be comparable to 3 galaxies ships? (I'd like to know more about that area before I go to the lengths necessary to procure such an item... or should I say, such a rarity)

[KLM]

Hi there!

has anybody studied the system presented in Rifts Manhunter? would the ships made using it be comparable to 3 galaxies ships? (I'd like to know more about that area before I go to the lengths necessary to procure such an item... or should I say, such a rarity)

Manhunter: incompatible, mainly because much different tech level.
(weaker MDC and odd weapons - would imbalance PW setting,
different FTL system)

Also, it can only build a decent size frigate (about 3000 tons).

Adios
KLM

[Carl Gleba]

Sorry to have to disagree, but any GM worth his salt can extrapolate from the numerous ships presented. How do you think the various authors come up with their ships? Yes it takes a little more work than say the rules in Manhunter but at least give it a try. You might surprise yourself with the results.

Carl

[KLM]

Hi there!

Yes, one can extrapollate from the given stats, even one has to
upgrade some stats, especially for captial ships (cruisers and up),
because the current "official" designs just lack common sense.
(too few crew, inadequate point defense anti starfighter weapons,
and the like. Also, compare the Proctor heavy fighter vs. the "typical runner ship". Take tonnage and price into account... Suprise.).

But if one comes up with a design, that should be balanced or
must have an explanation why it is more powerfull than the standard
types of the 3 gal Superpowers and why it is not in widespread use.
(Or why it is, for that matter).

Adios
KLM

[Svartalf]

Thanks for the comments KLM.

Those discrepancies and absurdities are one of the reasons I feel I need more data to be able to do a decent job of extrapolating new ship stats for my own use.

And sorry Carl... Sure, any GM can do that... but given insufficient (and absurd or contradictory) data to extrapolate from, the likelihood it that you'll produce pure junk.

It's hard enough for me to set on doing any creative tasks, I don't want the result to be garbage. So I know I don't have sufficient/proper data for the job at hand. My problem is that I want to produce stuff that is reasonably selc consistent, AND consistent with the tech achievements of the 3 galaxies, which is why I don't just adapt any of a number of ship construction systems around (I'm thinking of the old Spacemaster thing in particular... a bad calculator crunching case, but one of the best around.

[Carl Gleba]

well if any one could help me make up some new ships for a space campaing i have going that would be great, im thinkin some thin small but not to small, like a 2-4 man ship, that you can run with one if you have to., so any help would be greatly liked.

Well if you want a ship that 2 to 4 men can control, I'd use the stats for one of the larger fighters out there and increase them by 25 to 50%. Same with the size and weight. Weapon systems will probably be comparable and might have one or two more systems added. Speed is iffy and might be slower than your average star fighter unless your going for the millennium falcon feel. Then the speed might be on par with an average fighter. FTL speed can also vary.

The rest is really cosmetic. Sorry thats the best I can do at work without any books handy.

If you can get your hands on rifts Manhunter it has a space ship creation rules as does Galaxy Guide for heros unlimited.

For some more exotic and different ships to compare to check out Dimension Book 6, Three Galaxies <-- Yes shameless plug

[Carl Gleba]

And sorry Carl... Sure, any GM can do that... but given insufficient (and absurd or contradictory) data to extrapolate from, the likelihood it that you'll produce pure junk.

Well I find that statement kind of funny. I'm not picking a fight with you or anything like that svartalf, but its a fantasy sci-fi setting. Where can you get real data from? The technology doesn't even exist yet so of course the numbers are absurd.

All I can tell you I've been extrapolating this kind of stuff for years. Sure now and then I might over or under estimate a ship, but then not everything is perfect and design flaws show up all the time. Also if authors used some kind of standard to produce this kind of stuff you would have a bunch of generic cookie cutter ships.

At best you could use our modern navy to get some figures, but even then how accurate would that be? Its all really subjective and a matter of opinion anyway.

Carl

[Svartalf]

OK Carl... I'm not looking for "hard science" consistent stuff... that's silly.

Thing is that a number of the published ships (ok, the Carella stuff, I've not done a proper analysis on what you put in 3 galaxies) have stats that, when compared with each other, just yield some rather weird inconsistencies. So I just don't know which leads to follow... Starsdhip (from fighter to battle carrier including cargo or liner) construction is a rather complex thing... and until I know just where to stand, so I can get proper guidelines for making my own... well, I just can't

[Carl Gleba]

I based all of my stuff using Carella's ships. I figured they had to represent the base line of tech and ships in PW since he established the setting. I would guess he may have gotten his figures probably from analyzing the Macross or Robotech ships. Its the only frame of reference I could think of at the time that another writer could use.

I do agree however that a set of construction rules for PW ships would be nice. Its something I've considered doing for a while.

Carl

[KLM]

Hi there!

well if any one could help me make up some new ships for a space campaing i have going that would be great, im thinkin some thin small but not to small, like a 2-4 man ship, that you can run with one if you have to., so any help would be greatly liked.

To make this demand into a starship, our R&D staff needs some more
data:
- What purpose?
(Ie. passanger shuttle - Star Trek "little box"?, luxury yacht,
cartography ship, military scout, fighter, bomber, etc., freighter?)
- What size? (2-4 men crew can be anything from the Space ghost
fighter to a 200 m, 5-10.000 tons tanker or container ship?)
- Defense systems? (not the complete system, just the purpose.
Self-defense systems means 1 or 2 lascannons and maybe a mini
or short range missile launcher.
The top end should be around the weapons of the Proctor )
- Manufacturer (and aviability across the 3 galaxies? Also, checking in
into a TGE port with a CCW or Kittanii manufacture ship leads
to INTERESTING situations)

Adios
KLM

[DhAkael]

The 3-Galaxies source-book has pretty good FTL ratings Vs. cost for the main types of FTL drive used in the Tri-galactic cluster. It doesn't have tonnage = cost though, which can make number-crunchers a little postal.
I just extropolated from the Glaxy guide for general cost based by tonnage *shrug* I've been a GM for nearly 13 years, so I can get away with telling my players "that's the way it works cuz I says so!"
As for the AU: GG stardrives; a good rule of thumb is Light Speed Factor divided 100 = Ly/hr. (I.E.; factor 50 = 0.5 LY/hr.). This allows for more variation in stardrives, and the lower cost of said drives reflects thier lower speeds. Besides, do you really want your players zipping around in 1 man starfighters at 15 Ly/hr.? Didn't think so

As for the SDC to MDC conversions covered in in the AU:GG; again the system given is decent, but the GM should 'flex' the rules and boundries as needed, depending on tech levels. Take the Warhammer 40K setting 'Battlefleet gothic' for example. The Imperials have massive, slow, ponderous behemoths which can take a pounding and dish it back out (albeit, inaccurately). In comparrison, the Eldar have swift manuverable strike ships, with accruate targeting, but they can only take 1 or 2 hits before becomeing free-floating vapour. In 'converting' these ships I gave the Imperials about 50% more MDC per location, but gave the Eldar longer ranged lasers (X10 range) with much better targeting and sensor systems yet only 75% of the 'proper' calculated MDC.

Use your imagination, read millitary sci-fi, watch movies and TV. A decent GM can and will be able to fudge game systems to bend to thier will, and won't balk at having to do number crunching on the fly. Without having the "Munchie" factor bite 'em on the buttocks

[Svartalf]

This is getting interesting... not much for the statswise number crunching... but good for them creative juices.

thanks guys

[KLM]

Hi there!

In DS9, the "runabout" is the Danube class, is somewhat bigger than a bus, the http://www.ditl.org says it is 23 meter long (a bit over 70 feet .

Shuttles come from 7 meters in lenght (about 5 tons), for a max of 7 passangers (human sized).

This "flying box" is easily in the price category with the "engine equipped can" idea from the 3 galaxies sourcebook, half of the prize if used.

MDC around 300, shield (What shields? ), maybe armed with a
point defense laser (2-3d6 MD, range 610 m, 1200 in space).

With some styling it easily sells on RIFTS Earth as a hovercraft (thought
the CG propulsion can raise some eyebrows).

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Hi there!

Just to add my 2 bits for the conversation, a Runabout (Danube Class, 23 meters long) is around the Runner Ship in capabilities, or even the Proctor,
since in DS9, they were introduced as a light, all purpose ship (similar role and capabilities as US Coast Guard ships, which almost have
the capabilities of an IRL frigate).

The shuttles (7 meters, 5 metric tons) are of a size of a fighter, but
almost without weaponry (and not designed for longer use, than a
day or two).

I guess Kitsune's page has conversions for both.

Adios
KLM

[G]

Hi there!

Yes, one can extrapollate from the given stats, even one has to
upgrade some stats, especially for captial ships (cruisers and up),
because the current "official" designs just lack common sense.
(too few crew, inadequate point defense anti starfighter weapons,
and the like. Also, compare the Proctor heavy fighter vs. the "typical runner ship". Take tonnage and price into account... Suprise.).

I believe the price was missing a zero, and should be 300 million, not 30. Not that I belive it will ever be corrected, but if you look at all the other ships by comparison - 300 appears correct. For example: the cheapest 1 man fighter is 30, and that is without shields or a jump drive.