This post of yours clearly shows me that you have 100% completely ignored what KS himself has written an stated about the Coalition.
Nazi is the BASIS .. to which the Coalition was formed around ..
You can not seperate them .. THAT .. is how KS wants them "generally" viewed.
You are completely ignoring canon .. to say the Creator of the game .. does not know what he is talking about saying they are not like the Nazis ..
yeah the number of d-bees living out in the burbs arent clue about something. if they were so anti-dbee it would be like FQ, you posts show me one thing you have no clue about prosek or the coalition
Seems like you're the one without a clue, just because some D-bees get away with being in the burbs is not the CS saying 'hey you're okay', they just aren't catching all of them and remember the burbs are NOT part of the CS, they're shanty towns created by wannabes hoping to someday become members. Of course in shanty towns undesirables will sometimes set up camp and hope to be ignored.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
This post of yours clearly shows me that you have 100% completely ignored what KS himself has written an stated about the Coalition.
Nazi is the BASIS .. to which the Coalition was formed around ..
You can not seperate them .. THAT .. is how KS wants them "generally" viewed.
You are completely ignoring canon .. to say the Creator of the game .. does not know what he is talking about saying they are not like the Nazis ..
yeah the number of d-bees living out in the burbs arent clue about something. if they were so anti-dbee it would be like FQ, you posts show me one thing you have no clue about prosek or the coalition
Seems like you're the one without a clue, just because some D-bees get away with being in the burbs is not the CS saying 'hey you're okay', they just aren't catching all of them and remember the burbs are NOT part of the CS, they're shanty towns created by wannabes hoping to someday become members. Of course in shanty towns undesirables will sometimes set up camp and hope to be ignored.
then answer me this Are d-bees allowed within a CS fortess city
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
The Beast wrote:No, overall I think you're right. It's just that it seems like you guys are overhyping the ML a little bit. The one thing I'd argue is that we don't know exactly how many dakir they had to fight to free themselves. The write-up implies that there are more out there. Not that it makes any of your other arguements wrong or anything...
There isn't any overhyping going on, the ML is just that good and the Dakir if you look at the material had possessed personal force fields that had easily ten times the protection if not moreso than a super-heavy Naruni FF could provide and hand weapons that dealt more damage than some starship weapons. What few there were monitoring and running the ML put up a terrible struggle that matched and maybe exceeded what they dealt with battling the Mechanoids. True they didn't extinguish the species but those they fought are clearly a 'never before seen level' society with regards to their tech.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Are d-bees allowed within a CS fortess city
As a prisoner maybe, more likely only as a corpse. When Naruni Enterprises sent a rep to establish trade with the CS he barely survived the encounter.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:i dont ignore the canon , i notice the coalition does sometimes actually goes against what they say , first off you need to stop think of them as nasis running by a hilter wannable and actually read all the coalition stuff from a neutral mindset,
Mech-Viper .
This post of yours clearly shows me that you have 100% completely ignored what KS himself has written an stated about the Coalition.
Nazi is the BASIS .. to which the Coalition was formed around ..
You can not seperate them .. THAT .. is how KS wants them "generally" viewed.
You are completely ignoring canon .. to say the Creator of the game .. does not know what he is talking about saying they are not like the Nazis ..
yeah the number of d-bees living out in the burbs arent clue about something. if they were so anti-dbee it would be like FQ, you posts show me one thing you have no clue about prosek or the coalition
Keep up with the topic of the conversation ..
Were talking about magic users .. not Debee's ..
LMAO .. No offense ment here Mech .. but you talking about 1 thing .. then when proven wrong completely try to push the topic of the conversation into an entirely new direction ..
That stratagy does not work my friend.
Also I see you failed to even aknowledge .. that Kevin has Based the CS on the Nazi's .. And that the Emp even ADMIRE'S .. Hitler ..
I would to .. if it made my side of the debate that much weaker bud .
Last edited by Lenwen on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:Are d-bees allowed within a CS fortess city
As a prisoner maybe, more likely only as a corpse. When Naruni Enterprises sent a rep to establish trade with the CS he barely survived the encounter.
now is a d-bee allowed to buy something in a CS fortess city?
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Lenwen wrote:Keep up with the topic of the conversation ..
Were talking about magic users .. not Debee's ..
LMAO .. No offense ment here Mech .. but you talking about 1 thing .. then when proven wrong completely try to push the topic of the conversation into an entirely new direction ..
That stratagy does not work my friend.
Also I see you failed to even aknowledge .. that Kevin has Based the CS on the Nazi's .. And that the Emp even ADMIRE'S .. Hitler ..
I would to .. if it made my side of the debate that much weaker bud .
It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Lenwen wrote:Keep up with the topic of the conversation ..
Were talking about magic users .. not Debee's ..
LMAO .. No offense ment here Mech .. but you talking about 1 thing .. then when proven wrong completely try to push the topic of the conversation into an entirely new direction ..
That stratagy does not work my friend.
Also I see you failed to even aknowledge .. that Kevin has Based the CS on the Nazi's .. And that the Emp even ADMIRE'S .. Hitler ..
I would to .. if it made my side of the debate that much weaker bud .
It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
Exactly ..
And as such a topic with out a legit defense .. people do not want to actually discuss that part about the CS .. if you have not noticed ..
Lenwen wrote:Keep up with the topic of the conversation ..
Were talking about magic users .. not Debee's ..
LMAO .. No offense ment here Mech .. but you talking about 1 thing .. then when proven wrong completely try to push the topic of the conversation into an entirely new direction ..
That stratagy does not work my friend.
Also I see you failed to even aknowledge .. that Kevin has Based the CS on the Nazi's .. And that the Emp even ADMIRE'S .. Hitler ..
I would to .. if it made my side of the debate that much weaker bud .
It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
you know i take offense to that.
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:now is a d-bee allowed to buy something in a CS fortess city?
Mech.
Yes or no.
Did KS model the CS after the Nazis .. and does Emporer Prosek admire Hitler ?
erin tarn did mention nasis once, as for karl does found many of the practices hitler uses insightful and brilliant, but he does know hilter was insane too, but he does pattern himself after khan,caesar, napolean and hitler.
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Nightmask wrote:It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
Exactly ..
And as such a topic with out a legit defense .. people do not want to actually discuss that part about the CS .. if you have not noticed ..
I have noticed that yes. The CS is actively written to follow the pattern of the Nazi Regime, therefor one can expect it to hold to what one would expect from such an evil empire. There will be no tolerance of that which is deemed evil or unclean, genocide will be actively encouraged and followed through on, and any citizens who express even the slightest of doubts and support for these unclean ones will quickly end up censured or slain if unwilling to recant. Sadly we aren't being provided a US to step in and end their reign or options for it.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Nightmask wrote:It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
you know i take offense to that.
No point to taking offense over it, it's just a simple fact that there is no way to defend the CS and its actions as it's an evil empire patterned after Nazi Germany. It's not written to be possessed of qualities to admire or policies one can legitimately support but as an antagonistic foil to provide one of several implacable enemies for story purposes.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:now is a d-bee allowed to buy something in a CS fortess city?
Mech.
Yes or no.
Did KS model the CS after the Nazis .. and does Emporer Prosek admire Hitler ?
erin tarn did mention nasis once, as for karl does found many of the practices hitler uses insightful and brilliant, but he does know hilter was insane too, but he does pattern himself after khan,caesar, napolean and hitler.
You failed to answer me.
Did Kevin himself say (this is the yes or no part) he modeled the CS after the Nazis ?
Nightmask wrote:It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
Exactly ..
And as such a topic with out a legit defense .. people do not want to actually discuss that part about the CS .. if you have not noticed ..
I have noticed that yes. The CS is actively written to follow the pattern of the Nazi Regime, therefor one can expect it to hold to what one would expect from such an evil empire. There will be no tolerance of that which is deemed evil or unclean, genocide will be actively encouraged and followed through on, and any citizens who express even the slightest of doubts and support for these unclean ones will quickly end up censured or slain if unwilling to recant. Sadly we aren't being provided a US to step in and end their reign or options for it.
the options are always there to fight the coalition,one thing tolkeen showed was the coalition can be beaten back.
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Nightmask wrote:It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
you know i take offense to that.
No point to taking offense over it, it's just a simple fact that there is no way to defend the CS and its actions as it's an evil empire patterned after Nazi Germany. It's not written to be possessed of qualities to admire or policies one can legitimately support but as an antagonistic foil to provide one of several implacable enemies for story purposes.
same thing can be said about the united states too, anti-smoking,Environmentalism no cruelly to animals those are some thing hitler believed in
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Nightmask wrote:No point to taking offense over it, it's just a simple fact that there is no way to defend the CS and its actions as it's an evil empire patterned after Nazi Germany. It's not written to be possessed of qualities to admire or policies one can legitimately support but as an antagonistic foil to provide one of several implacable enemies for story purposes.
same thing can be said about the united states too, anti-smoking,no cruelly to animals those are some thing hitler believed in
Man that's such a logical fallacy. Just totally out there trying to say 'Oh yes the US is just like Nazi Germany because Hitler was all for non-smoking and non-smoking is just the same as executing people in gas chambers for being different'. Things totally and completely unrelated to one another. But such fallacies are a requirement if you're trying to defend something that can't be defended.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Nightmask wrote:It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
you know i take offense to that.
No point to taking offense over it, it's just a simple fact that there is no way to defend the CS and its actions as it's an evil empire patterned after Nazi Germany. It's not written to be possessed of qualities to admire or policies one can legitimately support but as an antagonistic foil to provide one of several implacable enemies for story purposes.
same thing can be said about the united states too, anti-smoking,Environmentalism no cruelly to animals those are some thing hitler believed in
The fact that you are saying its to be looked down upon for not having cruelty to animals .. and having environmentalism ..
Makes me think your now argue'ing just to argue ..
Nightmask wrote:No point to taking offense over it, it's just a simple fact that there is no way to defend the CS and its actions as it's an evil empire patterned after Nazi Germany. It's not written to be possessed of qualities to admire or policies one can legitimately support but as an antagonistic foil to provide one of several implacable enemies for story purposes.
same thing can be said about the united states too, anti-smoking,no cruelly to animals those are some thing hitler believed in
Man that's such a logical fallacy. Just totally out there trying to say 'Oh yes the US is just like Nazi Germany because Hitler was all for non-smoking and non-smoking is just the same as executing people in gas chambers for being different'. Things totally and completely unrelated to one another. But such fallacies are a requirement if you're trying to defend something that can't be defended.
why because you can stand the fact he had some good social programs , along with being a evil sob, because the japanese did the same thing but you really dont hear much of that.
besides if the CS was that big on genocide the burbs would be empty , if the coalition field that big of a army dont you think they were cleaned the burbs out first , you name it it can be found in any one the burbs around any CS fortress city
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Nightmask wrote:It does make it one of the rare internet topics where you can legitimately bring up references to Hitler and the Nazi regime because the character in question is actively emulating them. Which promptly makes it fail to try and defend it because one who would actively emulate the Nazis simply has no means of legitimate defense.
you know i take offense to that.
No point to taking offense over it, it's just a simple fact that there is no way to defend the CS and its actions as it's an evil empire patterned after Nazi Germany. It's not written to be possessed of qualities to admire or policies one can legitimately support but as an antagonistic foil to provide one of several implacable enemies for story purposes.
same thing can be said about the united states too, anti-smoking,Environmentalism no cruelly to animals those are some thing hitler believed in
The fact that you are saying its to be looked down upon for not having cruelty to animals .. and having environmentalism ..
Makes me think your now argue'ing just to argue ..
As you have not made any points ..
yeah i heard the same things about you too
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Lenwen wrote:The fact that you are saying its to be looked down upon for not having cruelty to animals .. and having environmentalism ..
Makes me think your now argue'ing just to argue ..
As you have not made any points ..
Seems to be the case, and totally off topic at this point. None of it covers how one would manage Tolkeen or attempt to see to it that the Aftermath went differently and the CS lost. Whether or not the CS would ever pull off the discontinuity of somehow changing the propaganda machine to reintroduce mages is a topic for a different thread (and not one I'd waste time posting in in any case).
I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Lenwen wrote:The fact that you are saying its to be looked down upon for not having cruelty to animals .. and having environmentalism ..
Makes me think your now argue'ing just to argue ..
As you have not made any points ..
Seems to be the case, and totally off topic at this point. None of it covers how one would manage Tolkeen or attempt to see to it that the Aftermath went differently and the CS lost. Whether or not the CS would ever pull off the discontinuity of somehow changing the propaganda machine to reintroduce mages is a topic for a different thread (and not one I'd waste time posting in in any case).
I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
all the the important stuff has already been said, alot of posts get DERAILED around here
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Nightmask wrote:I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Canonly speaking.
The addition of the Legion to the Tolkeen forces .. would have snapped the Coalition invasion force in half an sent what was left of them .. back to their respective bases ..
And the CS would take bout 10 years to figure out what really went wrong.
The Coalition does not have enough military to force a 15-1 ratio against a unified Tolkeen/Legion front. And anything LESS .. then a 30-1 ratio against the Legion .. in a defensive format from the CS is doomed to fail .. misurably ..
Nightmask wrote:Man that's such a logical fallacy. Just totally out there trying to say 'Oh yes the US is just like Nazi Germany because Hitler was all for non-smoking and non-smoking is just the same as executing people in gas chambers for being different'. Things totally and completely unrelated to one another. But such fallacies are a requirement if you're trying to defend something that can't be defended.
why because you can stand the fact he had some good social programs , along with being a evil sob, because the japanese did the same thing but you really dont hear much of that.
besides if the CS was that big on genocide the burbs would be empty , if the coalition field that big of a army dont you think they were cleaned the burbs out first , you name it it can be found in any one the burbs around any CS fortress city
*laughs* What Hitler did for those he considered citizens has nothing to do with how moral his policies in general were. Keeping your citizens taken care of is basic policy and it was his reform platform that turned around Germany's broken economy from WWI. You don't judge by a sliver you judge by the totality of things and on the total structure the CS is just evil, only ensuring good (relatively speaking) lives for its citizens because it's necessary for their continued survival. Non-Citizens on the other hands are easy targets.
You can't use the burbs as an example of 'great CS policies' either, plenty of governments leave such shanty towns around, helps concentrate the undesirables where you can get to them easily and because they're always good for cannon fodder and other such purposes.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Nightmask wrote:I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Canonly speaking.
The addition of the Legion to the Tolkeen forces .. would have snapped the Coalition invasion force in half an sent what was left of them .. back to their respective bases ..
And the CS would take bout 10 years to figure out what really went wrong.
The Coalition does not have enough military to force a 15-1 ratio against a unified Tolkeen/Legion front. And anything LESS .. then a 30-1 ratio against the Legion .. in a defensive format from the CS is doomed to fail .. misurably ..
Left off all the spin-doctoring during that time to paint their loss as really being a victory in some fashion. Perhaps claiming that another threat showed up and they couldn't afford to continue the war against Tolkeen because the safety of the CS came first but they'd be back to ensure those who died didn't die in vain.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Nightmask wrote:I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Canonly speaking.
The addition of the Legion to the Tolkeen forces .. would have snapped the Coalition invasion force in half an sent what was left of them .. back to their respective bases ..
And the CS would take bout 10 years to figure out what really went wrong.
The Coalition does not have enough military to force a 15-1 ratio against a unified Tolkeen/Legion front. And anything LESS .. then a 30-1 ratio against the Legion .. in a defensive format from the CS is doomed to fail .. misurably ..
if tolkeen had the ML they wouldnt have had demons of any type there or the need to enslave elementals too , some the force might be reduce
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Nightmask wrote:I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Canonly speaking.
The addition of the Legion to the Tolkeen forces .. would have snapped the Coalition invasion force in half an sent what was left of them .. back to their respective bases ..
And the CS would take bout 10 years to figure out what really went wrong.
The Coalition does not have enough military to force a 15-1 ratio against a unified Tolkeen/Legion front. And anything LESS .. then a 30-1 ratio against the Legion .. in a defensive format from the CS is doomed to fail .. misurably ..
Left off all the spin-doctoring during that time to paint their loss as really being a victory in some fashion. Perhaps claiming that another threat showed up and they couldn't afford to continue the war against Tolkeen because the safety of the CS came first but they'd be back to ensure those who died didn't die in vain.
yeah he would but i dont see the massarce of CS trooper, ML might be ok the are evil , but they running or giving up so no need to kill them. its waste of effort and ammo, but that might opened new problems.
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Lenwen wrote:You .. are the SUPREME General of all of the Tolkeen defensive forces ..
How would YOU .. personally set up Tolkeen's defenses given SoT 6 tolkeen military unit stats to form any and all defensive formations of your desires.
If I were the general of Tolkeen's army, I'd pretty much do the exact same thing as the general(s) in SoT 6. Tolkeen lost the war because Alistair Dunscon and the True Federation of Magic basically pledged all their support to Tolkeen then conveniently didn't show up to the battle. In other words the CS defeated Tolkeen due Alistair's betrayal rather than poor military planning.
So I guess what Lenwen is looking for is some absurd answer like: If I were the general I'd have the psionic power of knowing I'm going to be double crossed by a so-called ally and plan accordingly
Why is that absurd? You figure a magic kindgom would have mystics with precognitive powers. It actually more a Duh it should happen rather than an absurdity.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Lenwen wrote:You .. are the SUPREME General of all of the Tolkeen defensive forces ..
How would YOU .. personally set up Tolkeen's defenses given SoT 6 tolkeen military unit stats to form any and all defensive formations of your desires.
If I were the general of Tolkeen's army, I'd pretty much do the exact same thing as the general(s) in SoT 6. Tolkeen lost the war because Alistair Dunscon and the True Federation of Magic basically pledged all their support to Tolkeen then conveniently didn't show up to the battle. In other words the CS defeated Tolkeen due Alistair's betrayal rather than poor military planning.
So I guess what Lenwen is looking for is some absurd answer like: If I were the general I'd have the psionic power of knowing I'm going to be double crossed by a so-called ally and plan accordingly
Why is that absurd? You figure a magic kindgom would have mystics with precognitive powers. It actually more a Duh it should happen rather than an absurdity.
like i said before my years ago they should made sure holmes and his boys were dead before flying back to tolkeen, stuff like that comes back and bite you hard
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
at this point, i'm assuming certain posters are simply in their own little world where whatever they say is the new reality.
forget it, i'm not interested in discussing their delusions anymore.
as far as bio-wizardry stuff being the equal of the mechanoids... i dunno about that. have you *looked* at them lately? their regular soldiers have weapons that deal like 2d4x10 damage with 4,000 foot range. and don't forget to add in the two attacks for living they didn't get in that book. yeah, defensively, a bio-borg might be pretty close. offensively? eh... no, i don't think so. the mechanoids have extremely powerful offensive capabilities. they also have a huge advantage in mobility... a wasp can fly at something like mach 2 with perfect maneuverability iirc. a bio-borg? let me guess. 2d6x10? 3d6x10? so... we're looking at shorter range, drastically slower movement, and drastically lower damage per attack...
i could definitely see the mechanoids doing a number on splugorth minions.
plus, the mechanoids also have a lot of soldiers. i doubt they have only millions. it's quite possible, even probable, that the mechanoids send a "small" group of several million to a planet, and then if that planet gives them a hard time they fall back... and come back with 2 or 3 or 4 or 10 times as many. and if that doesn't work, they come back with even more. until eventually they've won.
so if there was a 6-million mechanoid army that the splugorth faced, sure they'd win (at a terrible cost, with cost being one of things the splugorth aren't big fans of, mind you). but then after that, the mechanoids would examine the threat, figure out how many they need to bring, and start coming. and you gotta figure, once the splugorth realise there's a few billion mechanoids coming, they decided it was time to get out of dodge.
back to the main point though... honestly, if i was tolkeen, i would've devoted a token army to slowing down the main advance, and spent the vast majority of my resources making sure the CS doesn't have any sort of supply lines at all. constantly teleport behind enemy lines, attack airfields and depots back in the main CS territory, set up ambushes in between the CS and their army, and let the troops starve to death. i would make it so that if the CS wanted to attack me, they would need a full army every few miles, and then i would start teleporting bombs in with no troops (or, if only living things can be teleported... well, a single creature with supernatural strength can carry a lot of weight. give a summoned being a really big bomb, neglect to mention what it is, and teleport them in, then detonate).
i mean, last thing i would ever want is to get in a straight-up fight with them. no thanks, i'll just tear apart their supply lines until for every 1 crate of supplies that gets through, there are 10 supply crates that never made it. and ideally, instead of destroying all those nice convoys full of goodies, i'd steal them and sell them to someone else to finance the war efforts. (destroying is better than letting them get through, but stealing them is better than destroying them).
Shark_Force wrote:at this point, i'm assuming certain posters are simply in their own little world where whatever they say is the new reality.
forget it, i'm not interested in discussing their delusions anymore.
cuz... the stuff that happened was real??? That statement is a bit delusional. Could just end it with you don't want to argue since many have basically adapted their own ideas as the in game reality. Why shouldn't they... IT'S A GAME.
back to the main point though... honestly, if i was tolkeen, i would've devoted a token army to slowing down the main advance, and spent the vast majority of my resources making sure the CS doesn't have any sort of supply lines at all. constantly teleport behind enemy lines, attack airfields and depots back in the main CS territory, set up ambushes in between the CS and their army, and let the troops starve to death. i would make it so that if the CS wanted to attack me, they would need a full army every few miles, and then i would start teleporting bombs in with no troops (or, if only living things can be teleported... well, a single creature with supernatural strength can carry a lot of weight. give a summoned being a really big bomb, neglect to mention what it is, and teleport them in, then detonate).
Um... basic teleport ONLY teleports non living, so... don't gotta worry bout that.
i mean, last thing i would ever want is to get in a straight-up fight with them. no thanks, i'll just tear apart their supply lines until for every 1 crate of supplies that gets through, there are 10 supply crates that never made it. and ideally, instead of destroying all those nice convoys full of goodies, i'd steal them and sell them to someone else to finance the war efforts. (destroying is better than letting them get through, but stealing them is better than destroying them).
great point mages should never get in a face to face fight with men at arms thinking they could do that was foolish, they should have done everything they could to use their magics to discombobulate the enemy.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Shark_Force wrote:at this point, i'm assuming certain posters are simply in their own little world where whatever they say is the new reality.
forget it, i'm not interested in discussing their delusions anymore.
cuz... the stuff that happened was real??? That statement is a bit delusional. Could just end it with you don't want to argue since many have basically adapted their own ideas as the in game reality. Why shouldn't they... IT'S A GAME.
changing the entire setting to be different from what's in the books is fine for the purposes of your own game.
changing the entire setting to be different from what's in the books and then telling everyone else they're wrong because that's what it says in the books? that's delusional. no point in even bothering to discuss anything with that sort of person. not that they're particularly internally consistent anyways either, mind you.
Shark_Force wrote:at this point, i'm assuming certain posters are simply in their own little world where whatever they say is the new reality.
forget it, i'm not interested in discussing their delusions anymore.
cuz... the stuff that happened was real??? That statement is a bit delusional. Could just end it with you don't want to argue since many have basically adapted their own ideas as the in game reality. Why shouldn't they... IT'S A GAME.
changing the entire setting to be different from what's in the books is fine for the purposes of your own game.
changing the entire setting to be different from what's in the books and then telling everyone else they're wrong because that's what it says in the books? that's delusional. no point in even bothering to discuss anything with that sort of person. not that they're particularly internally consistent anyways either, mind you.
OK yes that is delusional as the books are real and imagining something that is written in them that is clearly not, is a little... ok a lot off.
you some might think you're a but you're cool in book --Mecha-Viper BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray, Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
Shark_Force wrote:at this point, i'm assuming certain posters are simply in their own little world where whatever they say is the new reality.
forget it, i'm not interested in discussing their delusions anymore.
cuz... the stuff that happened was real??? That statement is a bit delusional. Could just end it with you don't want to argue since many have basically adapted their own ideas as the in game reality. Why shouldn't they... IT'S A GAME.
changing the entire setting to be different from what's in the books is fine for the purposes of your own game.
changing the entire setting to be different from what's in the books and then telling everyone else they're wrong because that's what it says in the books? that's delusional. no point in even bothering to discuss anything with that sort of person. not that they're particularly internally consistent anyways either, mind you.
as most gms do, I bet one GMs game is a little different then next GM. I only look at thing that could or could not happen down the road with the Coalition. but sorry cant look at the Coalition States as Nazi wannables because they arent
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Ok, to restate my point (and add some). Getting the ML isn't as simple as people seem to make it out to be. Their base of operation isn't in NA, and according to the books they've only heard about the CS, but never actually met them. This tells me that their "outings" into NA are minimal and it's likely that nobody in Tolkeen is even aware of them.
Also, could somebody confirm for me that Tolkeen was actually doing a good job at holding the CS back by themselves before they got nailed from the hive lands? I don't have those books handy right now, but I remember that they were doing well. If this is correct, even if they could get the ML, what's to say that they would feel the need to hire them until the very end?
"If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly." -Geronimo 2.0
"Coming Summer 1994... Mechanoid Space!"
75 GM Geek Points
Shark_Force wrote: at this point, i'm assuming certain posters are simply in their own little world where whatever they say is the new reality.
forget it, i'm not interested in discussing their delusions anymore.
as far as bio-wizardry stuff being the equal of the mechanoids... i dunno about that. have you *looked* at them lately? their regular soldiers have weapons that deal like 2d4x10 damage with 4,000 foot range. and don't forget to add in the two attacks for living they didn't get in that book. yeah, defensively, a bio-borg might be pretty close. offensively? eh... no, i don't think so. the mechanoids have extremely powerful offensive capabilities. they also have a huge advantage in mobility... a wasp can fly at something like mach 2 with perfect maneuverability iirc. a bio-borg? let me guess. 2d6x10? 3d6x10? so... we're looking at shorter range, drastically slower movement, and drastically lower damage per attack...
Very true the mechanoids are more powerful them MOST .. on this thread tend to remember .. or understand..
Shark_Force wrote: i could definitely see the mechanoids doing a number on splugorth minions.
plus, the mechanoids also have a lot of soldiers. i doubt they have only millions. it's quite possible, even probable, that the mechanoids send a "small" group of several million to a planet, and then if that planet gives them a hard time they fall back... and come back with 2 or 3 or 4 or 10 times as many. and if that doesn't work, they come back with even more. until eventually they've won.
so if there was a 6-million mechanoid army that the splugorth faced, sure they'd win (at a terrible cost, with cost being one of things the splugorth aren't big fans of, mind you). but then after that, the mechanoids would examine the threat, figure out how many they need to bring, and start coming. and you gotta figure, once the splugorth realise there's a few billion mechanoids coming, they decided it was time to get out of dodge.
Splugorthian's typically have Billions of minions tho as well .. So a military the size of 6 million would not scare the Spluggies off .. If anything it would give them some excitement due to an actual threat against them ..
I would put all of my forces in formations much like Napoleonic tactics and march them towards the CS...meanwhile I would send a letter to the Emperor letting him know that I'm turning these D-Bees and Mages to him on a silver platter.
There should be a specific sub-forum of the Rifts forum dedicated to the only hope for salvation of the human race, the Coalition States.
SkyeFyre wrote:Ok, to restate my point (and add some). Getting the ML isn't as simple as people seem to make it out to be. Their base of operation isn't in NA, and according to the books they've only heard about the CS, but never actually met them. This tells me that their "outings" into NA are minimal and it's likely that nobody in Tolkeen is even aware of them.
Also, could somebody confirm for me that Tolkeen was actually doing a good job at holding the CS back by themselves before they got nailed from the hive lands? I don't have those books handy right now, but I remember that they were doing well. If this is correct, even if they could get the ML, what's to say that they would feel the need to hire them until the very end?
Actually on your first point, by 109 PA (when Final Siege takes place), the ML have opened a shop in Merc Town. Even the CS has heard of them...
On the second part, the CS "2nd" Invasion Force stopped right outside of Tolkeen's front door and were contemplating waiting for additional troops from the Quebec front to arrive or to go ahead and attack. While they were thinking it over, Holmes went ahead and attacked, then the rest of the CS forces attacked.
That'll teach me not to scour every single line of every single book before posting.
"If your party is doing anything but running like hell trying not to get vaporized, the GM is not running the Mechanoids correctly." -Geronimo 2.0
"Coming Summer 1994... Mechanoid Space!"
75 GM Geek Points
Nightmask wrote:I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Canonly speaking.
The addition of the Legion to the Tolkeen forces .. would have snapped the Coalition invasion force in half an sent what was left of them .. back to their respective bases ..
And the CS would take bout 10 years to figure out what really went wrong.
The Coalition does not have enough military to force a 15-1 ratio against a unified Tolkeen/Legion front. And anything LESS .. then a 30-1 ratio against the Legion .. in a defensive format from the CS is doomed to fail .. misurably ..
Since when is it "canon" that the addition of the ML forces would have snapped the CS's assault, I want page numbers and quotes please. Or is this just your personal opinion speaking? Also where is it printed the number of troops the ML had when facing the Mechanoids? ALL we know is that each soldiers was able to kill 30 Mechanoids each and that they apparently suffered a 7% loss. Out of how many troops? And no the 300,000 in South America does not count as that is their number AFTER their escape from the Dakir and having been on Earth for a while.
My real world Physics defeats your Quasi-Physics!!! Bubblegum Crisis, best anime/sci-fi/ for totally hot babes in Power Armor.!!!! Magic. Completely screws logic at every opportunity. (credit due to Ilendaver)
I'd round up all the Rings of Elder and some the highest level sorcerers in the kingdom have them cast most spells of legend, then hand the rings off to next highest batch of mages repeat.... Get every warlock in town around to call in major elementals buff them with fleet feet, chameleon, mystic fulcrum and few others, but the real kicker to decimate the CS troops is use the spell Instill Knowledge with enhanced duration from the rings to make the major able to read and give them some giant scrolls House of Glass after cast it any damage they take is also taken by the attacker not too many troops can M.D. to hit points, if the major is almost dead have it read a low level Sanctuary spell so he can still deal damage and regenerate. have a few dozen warlocks with the rings ride phantom wolves with invisibility: superior on them center of the battle to cast all the big elemental devastation spells phase out for the return trip so not take damage hand off rings to fresh warlocks.
One dirty trick for defense of the city is open dimensional portals around the city in a dome-shape & create mirror portals in the other dimension back to the city, any blasts or missiles at the one portal can be redirected/funneled back in the CS direction.
Main advantage is all the teleporting powers/spells in town out flank them from behind and arm them with explosives, rocket launchers and use of illusionary spells to appear as CS troops.
If your a shifter you should be summoning angels/spirits of light just for resurrection of others power and if you lose control you know their not going to slaughter the innocent, plus as Tolkien innocents are being slaughtered the angel may still want to defend them! Even used as medics to rebuild the down force would be a big boost then sending them in as combatants few creatures are powerful or have the combat bonuses they have.
I will be 125 living in Rio de Janeiro when the Great Cataclysm comes, I will not survive long but I will be cloned threw the Achilles project and my clones will be Achilles Neo-Humans that will start a new Jedi order in Psyscape. So You May Strike Me Down & I Will Become More Powerful Than You Can Possibly Imagine. Let the Clone Wars begin!
Nightmask wrote:I say the ML with its proven record of dealing with threats far worse than the CS could easily ensure the failure of the CS in its efforts to destroy Tolkeen and if introduced early ensure the fall into darkness never happens.
Canonly speaking.
The addition of the Legion to the Tolkeen forces .. would have snapped the Coalition invasion force in half an sent what was left of them .. back to their respective bases ..
And the CS would take bout 10 years to figure out what really went wrong.
The Coalition does not have enough military to force a 15-1 ratio against a unified Tolkeen/Legion front. And anything LESS .. then a 30-1 ratio against the Legion .. in a defensive format from the CS is doomed to fail .. misurably ..
Since when is it "canon" that the addition of the ML forces would have snapped the CS's assault, I want page numbers and quotes please. Or is this just your personal opinion speaking? Also where is it printed the number of troops the ML had when facing the Mechanoids? ALL we know is that each soldiers was able to kill 30 Mechanoids each and that they apparently suffered a 7% loss. Out of how many troops? And no the 300,000 in South America does not count as that is their number AFTER their escape from the Dakir and having been on Earth for a while.
Thee only thing worth discussing in the above post is the each ML soilder kill ratio of 30 mechanoids each .. while only only losing 7% of their own forces ..
So that is a fact ..
The other fact we HAVE .. to talk about is with a kill ratio that high .. against a military that dwarfed their own .. and against technology VASTLY .. superior to the CS ..
Where do you come off thinking they (the CS) has a chance to do what the Mechanoids could not with higher tech and numbers the CS could never .. put forth ?
The best possible ratio the CS could put forth .. (canonly speaking) is 1.5 million TOTAL .. military .. which is 5x what the ML has in combat troops (not including thier support) which means .. the ML will not reach a 30-1 kill ratio against the CS .. but only at best .. a possible 5-1 kill ratio ..
Lenwen wrote:Thee only thing worth discussing in the above post is the each ML soilder kill ratio of 30 mechanoids each .. while only only losing 7% of their own forces ..
So that is a fact ..
The other fact we HAVE .. to talk about is with a kill ratio that high .. against a military that dwarfed their own .. and against technology VASTLY .. superior to the CS ..
Where do you come off thinking they (the CS) has a chance to do what the Mechanoids could not with higher tech and numbers the CS could never .. put forth ?
The best possible ratio the CS could put forth .. (canonly speaking) is 1.5 million TOTAL .. military .. which is 5x what the ML has in combat troops (not including thier support) which means .. the ML will not reach a 30-1 kill ratio against the CS .. but only at best .. a possible 5-1 kill ratio ..
The kill ratio wouldn't work like that, it won't drop to five to one just because that's the ratio it would likely still be in the thirty to one or higher range since the kill quality of the ML isn't going to drop with a drop in the quality of their opponents there opponents would have to go up in quality somehow to pull that off.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Lenwen wrote:Thee only thing worth discussing in the above post is the each ML soilder kill ratio of 30 mechanoids each .. while only only losing 7% of their own forces ..
So that is a fact ..
The other fact we HAVE .. to talk about is with a kill ratio that high .. against a military that dwarfed their own .. and against technology VASTLY .. superior to the CS ..
Where do you come off thinking they (the CS) has a chance to do what the Mechanoids could not with higher tech and numbers the CS could never .. put forth ?
The best possible ratio the CS could put forth .. (canonly speaking) is 1.5 million TOTAL .. military .. which is 5x what the ML has in combat troops (not including thier support) which means .. the ML will not reach a 30-1 kill ratio against the CS .. but only at best .. a possible 5-1 kill ratio ..
The kill ratio wouldn't work like that, it won't drop to five to one just because that's the ratio it would likely still be in the thirty to one or higher range since the kill quality of the ML isn't going to drop with a drop in the quality of their opponents there opponents would have to go up in quality somehow to pull that off.
I disagree ..
The lower quality opponents .. (in this case it is the CS) the Kill ratio will "normally" go up .
That is just the way it works. Under extraordinary circumstances .. it goes down .. rather then up .. but those would be the exceptions which prove the rule .. an not the other way around ..
I have to bring up you guys missed one major point after the Sorcerer's revenge , ML would have told Tolkeen , no thank you but good luck with your war with the Coalition.
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I have to bring up you guys missed one major point after the Sorcerer's revenge , ML would have told Tolkeen , no thank you but good luck with your war with the Coalition.
Well why would someone bring up a point that isn't something that would actually happen? Peaceful empire attacked by by evil empire, ending the war quickly and decisively saves lives on BOTH sides and it's a war they can easily make a difference in.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I have to bring up you guys missed one major point after the Sorcerer's revenge , ML would have told Tolkeen , no thank you but good luck with your war with the Coalition.
Well why would someone bring up a point that isn't something that would actually happen? Peaceful empire attacked by by evil empire, ending the war quickly and decisively saves lives on BOTH sides and it's a war they can easily make a difference in.
that peaceful empire just became an evil empire just like the one they were fighting
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I have to bring up you guys missed one major point after the Sorcerer's revenge , ML would have told Tolkeen , no thank you but good luck with your war with the Coalition.
Well why would someone bring up a point that isn't something that would actually happen? Peaceful empire attacked by by evil empire, ending the war quickly and decisively saves lives on BOTH sides and it's a war they can easily make a difference in.
that peaceful empire just became an evil empire just like the one they were fighting
Not really relevant, and they didn't become an evil empire instead they were more a collection of good individuals fallen to evil. The ML with basic intelligence could find out that Tolkeen was peacefully minding its own business before being brutally attacked by the CS, and see that their responses particularly later on were possible logical consequences in such a war (not like the ML hasn't seen many wars like that). Getting involved and ending the war quickly and decisively is good for everyone.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.
'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin
It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I have to bring up you guys missed one major point after the Sorcerer's revenge , ML would have told Tolkeen , no thank you but good luck with your war with the Coalition.
Well why would someone bring up a point that isn't something that would actually happen? Peaceful empire attacked by by evil empire, ending the war quickly and decisively saves lives on BOTH sides and it's a war they can easily make a difference in.
that peaceful empire just became an evil empire just like the one they were fighting
To end your vision Mech ..
Had tolkeen went to the ML BEFORE .. the start of the war ..
Tolkeen would still be there today .. and the CS would have halted ALL its expansionistic plans it had in the works ..
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:I have to bring up you guys missed one major point after the Sorcerer's revenge , ML would have told Tolkeen , no thank you but good luck with your war with the Coalition.
Well why would someone bring up a point that isn't something that would actually happen? Peaceful empire attacked by by evil empire, ending the war quickly and decisively saves lives on BOTH sides and it's a war they can easily make a difference in.
that peaceful empire just became an evil empire just like the one they were fighting
Not really relevant, and they didn't become an evil empire instead they were more a collection of good individuals fallen to evil. The ML with basic intelligence could find out that Tolkeen was peacefully minding its own business before being brutally attacked by the CS, and see that their responses particularly later on were possible logical consequences in such a war (not like the ML hasn't seen many wars like that). Getting involved and ending the war quickly and decisively is good for everyone.
ML would still say thank for the offer but we are going to decline as this time, but keep us in mind next you know before you summon the wonderful demons, yes i know you were peaceful before this , but see this thing about killing people who are trying to surrender , and killing them while they were sleeping , and the killing of people while they were fleeing , really doesnt really put you on the moral high ground now. well we will take our leave now, have a good day
Ravenwing wrote:"Killing Dbee's isn't murder, they aren't human, it's pest control!"
Zardoz wrote:You have been raised up from Brutality, to kill the Brutals who multiply, and are legion. To this end, Zardoz your God gave you the gift of the Gun. The Gun is good!
you some might think you're a 
but you're cool in book 
