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Lemuria was being "written" by Steve shering... but we all know what he was to busy doing to work on that bok..

ShadowLogan wrote:

Seto Kaiba wrote:Hm... I wonder if we can get the Big Book o' Ships un-canceled if a suitable author tosses his hat into the ring.

Not at all surprised to hear that it got canceled tho.

Surprised it took that long to admit it though.

Seems to be something of a pattern when it comes to Robotech projects and cancellations... but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turned out that Harmony Gold had asked Palladium to be quiet about it for a while so they could try shifting the fandom's attention elsewhere and dodge the brunt of the backlash.

ShadowLogan wrote:If another author tossed their hat into the ring it is possible to resurrect the book. IIRC Rifts Lemuria went through the same process (Mechanoid: Space if it ever sees the light of day might also qualify).

Well, after news of its definitive cancellation was finally posted, Colonel Wolfe and I both did some gratuitous tossing of hats in the hopes of getting it finished properly.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

Seto Kaiba wrote:Hm... I wonder if we can get the Big Book o' Ships un-canceled if a suitable author tosses his hat into the ring.

Not at all surprised to hear that it got canceled tho.

Surprised it took that long to admit it though.

Seems to be something of a pattern when it comes to Robotech projects and cancellations... but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turned out that Harmony Gold had asked Palladium to be quiet about it for a while so they could try shifting the fandom's attention elsewhere and dodge the brunt of the backlash..

Wretched mismangagement on that, then. Robotech without spaceships is like King without Kong. And it would be unfair to all those people who DIDN'T still have a copy of the old Zentraedi Sourcebook from the first edition RPG, when it comes to the Zentraedi fleet.
And damn it, I WANT the Southern Cross spacefleet to get its long-neglected due!
And the New Shadow Chronicles ships!!! HG, it's too late to shift the attention! That's an insult to me and my attention span!

taalismn wrote:Wretched mismangagement on that, then. Robotech without spaceships is like King without Kong. And it would be unfair to all those people who DIDN'T still have a copy of the old Zentraedi Sourcebook from the first edition RPG, when it comes to the Zentraedi fleet.

Well, it's not as big a problem as it would be if the overwhelming majority of Robotech fans hadn't already been fans in the late 80's and early 90's when the 1st Edition was being published. They're insulated from the full consequences of that problem by their failure to generate an influx of new fans.

taalismn wrote:And damn it, I WANT the Southern Cross spacefleet to get its long-neglected due!

Buddy, you're gonna be waiting a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time if that's what you're after. You might want to give a little thought to long-term cryogenic stasis.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

taalismn wrote:And damn it, I WANT the Southern Cross spacefleet to get its long-neglected due!

Buddy, you're gonna be waiting a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time if that's what you're after. You might want to give a little thought to long-term cryogenic stasis.

MY GHOST WILL HAUNT WHATEVER IS LEFT OF HARMONY GOLD!!!!!!

Seto Kaiba wrote:Buddy, you're gonna be waiting a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time if that's what you're after. You might want to give a little thought to long-term cryogenic stasis.

I have this sneaking suspicion (based on the detailed Ajax transformation sheets Tommy claims to have) that the design sheets for the Southern Cross warships are all somewhere in some box at Harmony Gold's offices. The packet of stuff I helped organize for Tom Bateman (including scanning to put on disc) had only the cargo shuttle from Danger Zone (and The Sentinels) for Earth vessels. They are being ignored because Tommy is simply NOT a good steward for the franchise.

taalismn wrote:MY GHOST WILL HAUNT WHATEVER IS LEFT OF HARMONY GOLD!!!!!!

Fine, but don't blame me if they call the Ghostbusters.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:I have this sneaking suspicion (based on the detailed Ajax transformation sheets Tommy claims to have) that the design sheets for the Southern Cross warships are all somewhere in some box at Harmony Gold's offices.

Sorry, but I just can't take the "it's all a huge conspiracy to keep Southern Cross down!" viewpoint seriously... there's a reasonably detailed Auroran transformation diagram in one of the B-Club issues from back then, so there's your probable source for it. There isn't, however, decent quality line art for the ships... and the only ones with a model sheet are what Robotech calls the Tokugawa and Tristar. I get the feeling that, as with most of what was done for mechanical designs in the Southern Cross series, the lack of info and/or art stock for the ships stems from their not being intended to be the focus of attention... and/or the artists not being detail-oriented people like the creators of Macross, MOSPEADA, etc.

(Somehow, I can't shake the following mental image:

Rabid: What're you doing with the box of Southern Cross art?
Tommy: It's being examined by top men.
Rabid: Who?
Tommy: Top. Men.
)

Seto Kaiba wrote:Sorry, but I just can't take the "it's all a huge conspiracy to keep Southern Cross down!" viewpoint seriously...

Said nothing about conspiracy. I think its more likely a case of incompetence (ala Hanlon's Razor).

Somehow, I can't shake the following mental image:

Rabid: What're you doing with the box of Southern Cross art?
Tommy: It's being examined by top men.
Rabid: Who?
Tommy: Top. Men.

Heh....

Seto Kaiba wrote:Rabid: What're you doing with the box of Southern Cross art?
Tommy: It's being examined by top men.
Rabid: Who?
Tommy: Top. Men.
)

the Few times I talked to Tommy... thats kinda how he was... but by top men, he mean Steve and MEMO...

Colonel Wolfe wrote:the Few times I talked to Tommy... thats kinda how he was... but by top men, he mean Steve and MEMO...

Almost everyone I've talked to who's tried to discuss Robotech with Tommy has said something similar... but I personally never had any difficulty getting information out of him. The problem I had was that the answers I got on topics like the fusion thing tended to leave me scratching my head or wishing that I hadn't asked. (For instance, at the time I asked him about the switch to fusion, he pretty much revealed that he hadn't a single notion about what the uses and properties of metallic hydrogen really were.)

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Colonel Wolfe wrote:the Few times I talked to Tommy... thats kinda how he was... but by top men, he mean Steve and MEMO...

Almost everyone I've talked to who's tried to discuss Robotech with Tommy has said something similar... but I personally never had any difficulty getting information out of him. The problem I had was that the answers I got on topics like the fusion thing tended to leave me scratching my head or wishing that I hadn't asked. (For instance, at the time I asked him about the switch to fusion, he pretty much revealed that he hadn't a single notion about what the uses and properties of metallic hydrogen really were.)

he got his info from Top men... Top. Men...

Maybe I am dense, but there are starships in every new Robotech book, except the Manga TSC. Yeah, it's not a lot, but look at the core books of their previous line. It's about the same.

Yes, I would like to see some more starships, but it can't fit into the core books. They need to fit in true sourcebooks.

But I have to ask this question to all those players and GM's out there: How often do you use a starship, other than a backdrop. Truly have your players to ship to ship combat? Or Mecha to Ship Combat?

I have yet to do so since the books came out. I ran a Macross and TSC campaign. TSC was on Earth, at best they took out Clam Ships. Macross they used a Zentraedi Cruiser as a base of operations, and that was it.

Maps are generic enough, even from the old RPG. Anyone can draw that, we do it already for other genre's.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:he got his info from Top men... Top. Men...

Oh dear, have I started a running joke at Tommy's expense?

Tiree wrote:Maybe I am dense, but there are starships in every new Robotech book, except the Manga TSC. Yeah, it's not a lot, but look at the core books of their previous line. It's about the same.

Yes, I would like to see some more starships, but it can't fit into the core books. They need to fit in true sourcebooks.

It'd be nice to have things like deck plans as well... a good visualization tool for GMs who are going to use ships as the backdrop for events during their sessions.

Tiree wrote:But I have to ask this question to all those players and GM's out there: How often do you use a starship, other than a backdrop. Truly have your players to ship to ship combat? Or Mecha to Ship Combat?

My group for the Macross II game used ships for combat quite often... it was a larger scale play-by-post type game, so we had enough players to crew the ship and operate mecha in combat at the same time. It was rare that we had a full-scale fleet battle, but battles with two or three ships actively shooting at each other were common in our game, as were Valkyrie-led attacks on enemy ships. (Bear ye in mind, we'd adjusted the stats in the game to a level more closely resembling that of the OVA and canon info, so the Valkyrie II's were carrying sufficient kaboom to actually do serious damage to a smallish Mardook ship, or rip through a dozen or more pods in a dogfight.) We also do a lot of fighter-on-ship attacks in the homebrew Macross Frontier game I'm in.

Tiree wrote:Maybe I am dense, but there are starships in every new Robotech book, except the Manga TSC. Yeah, it's not a lot, but look at the core books of their previous line. It's about the same.

Yes, I would like to see some more starships, but it can't fit into the core books. They need to fit in true sourcebooks.

But I have to ask this question to all those players and GM's out there: How often do you use a starship, other than a backdrop. Truly have your players to ship to ship combat? Or Mecha to Ship Combat?

I have yet to do so since the books came out. I ran a Macross and TSC campaign. TSC was on Earth, at best they took out Clam Ships. Macross they used a Zentraedi Cruiser as a base of operations, and that was it.

Maps are generic enough, even from the old RPG. Anyone can draw that, we do it already for other genre's.

I have been thinking of running a PbP Robotech game and my adventure idea is set on a ship. At least the ship has 1st edition deck plans so I'm OK.

Seto Kaiba wrote:Tiree wrote:
Maybe I am dense, but there are starships in every new Robotech book, except the Manga TSC. Yeah, it's not a lot, but look at the core books of their previous line. It's about the same.

Yes, I would like to see some more starships, but it can't fit into the core books. They need to fit in true sourcebooks.
It'd be nice to have things like deck plans as well... a good visualization tool for GMs who are going to use ships as the backdrop for events during their sessions.

Agree. Also helpful for the "Ghostship" style missions.

you know, New Gen was so horrible... I didnt note if there were any capital ships in the book...

From looking at the table of contents, no there isn't any Cap Ships in it. I think that would all be covered under the TSC Hardbound.

Which btw all the missing information from TSC Manga that was in the Deluxe should have been in the New Gen book. Which I did lobby for, until I found out that they were no longer doing the Manga size books. At that point, I called them up and said - if your getting away from Manga. Then don't put that info in the new book. Add more new info. But what I would like to see is a Compilation of Macross, Masters, and New Gen Sourcebook all in Standard format. I would pay good money for this.

taalismn wrote:

Seto Kaiba wrote:Seems to be something of a pattern when it comes to Robotech projects and cancellations... but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turned out that Harmony Gold had asked Palladium to be quiet about it for a while so they could try shifting the fandom's attention elsewhere and dodge the brunt of the backlash..

HG, it's too late to shift the attention! That's an insult to me and my attention span!

I'd be rather surprised if Harmony Gold was managing Palladium's press releases.

ESalter wrote:I'd be rather surprised if Harmony Gold was managing Palladium's press releases.

Really, I'd be surprised if they weren't... at least, based on what Harmony Gold's marketing director has had to say about the higher-ups and their policy on Robotech related press releases. The man apparently had to BEG them for a year or more just to get a Facebook and Twitter account set up.

Ive used ships in games before where the players were the bridge crew. It was fun.

I see your point though Tiree, the source material is not used nearly as often as the other stuff. Still...its not always about what will be used in the RPG, but documenting the source material seen in the show, and providing a common description (rpg stats) we can relate to with the more common things. Plus, I too would like to see the Southern Cross ships correctly documented. That show had some of the coolest looking ships and the best Palladium has done so far was misidentifying a few "shuttles".

Not to mention, the show and the comics for tSC clearly show many of the old ships have been refitted, like the Tokugaga. Lets see those stats along with the Super Shadow and Super Beta which should have been in the tSC book anyway.

Kagashi wrote:Still...its not always about what will be used in the RPG, but documenting the source material seen in the show, and providing a common description (rpg stats) we can relate to with the more common things.

Quite... in my experience, most of the people who bought the 1st Edition of the Robotech RPG didn't purchase the books to play the game, they bought them to use them as an unofficial Robotech encyclopedia of sorts. I doubt that's really changed, considering the anticlimactic nature of the Robotech.com Infopedia and Tommy's RTSC art book.

Kagashi wrote:Plus, I too would like to see the Southern Cross ships correctly documented. That show had some of the coolest looking ships and the best Palladium has done so far was misidentifying a few "shuttles".

It's ironic, in a way, that you'd mention coverage of the Southern Cross ships immediately after insisting that complete and accurate coverage should be a goal of the RPG. Those are two mutually exclusive goals when you're talking about the ships from Southern Cross. Of all the ship designs that appear in Southern Cross, only the Zor Lords mothership seems to have had ANY more forethought than "this is what it's named, and here's a pic" put into it. None of the ship designs in Southern Cross appear to have any kind of detail pertaining to things like their dimensions, armament, carrying capacity, and so on. Many of 'em radically change in scale between the different scenes they're in, and some of them (most notably the "Tristar") are drawn off-model so frequently that some fans are convinced there's really a half dozen variant classes.

When writing material for the 2nd Edition, Palladium's process seems to have been to copy from the OSM whenever possible, and the information just isn't there to be copied where the Robotech Masters Saga is concerned. Pretty much everything in the Robotech.com infopedia for that saga is an arse-pull that often doesn't even reflect what's shown in the animation or said in the dialogue.

(As a side note, on the rare occasions the OSM does offer details on mecha from Southern Cross, the stats made up for the RT version make it less advanced or just plain less logical. The Southern Cross Army truly cannot catch a freaking break.)

Kagashi wrote:Not to mention, the show and the comics for tSC clearly show many of the old ships have been refitted, like the Tokugaga.

Actually, it's only the Prelude miniseries where a non-MOSPEADA ship design is shown in UEEF service, and it's destroyed pretty much right away.

Kagashi wrote:Lets see those stats along with the Super Shadow and Super Beta which should have been in the tSC book anyway.

Based on the official material that's been published for 'em, you wouldn't actually find much difference from what's down for the regular Shadow and Shadow Beta. The Super Shadow Fighter just has some extra verniers (so some kinda dodge bonus) and it might possibly be a little bit faster (so a slight boost to top speed). The Super Shadow Beta's only difference is that there's a dorsal mount for a removable synchro cannon/micro-missile launcher combo pod. That's... pretty much it.

Tiree wrote:But I have to ask this question to all those players and GM's out there: How often do you use a starship, other than a backdrop. Truly have your players to ship to ship combat? Or Mecha to Ship Combat?

My previous campaign featured extensive ship to ship combat, with the players either commanding some of the ships, or flying fighters in the middle of the battle. My 1E campaign from way back when featured both a running battle against the Invid inside of an Ikazuchi, and a boarding action against a Zentraedi cruiser. The deck plans there were invaluable.

Really bummed this book has been shelved.

Kagashi wrote:Really bummed this book has been shelved.

Yes, that's too bad, it would be great to see the official story on these ships....

Any ideas on what we can do to get Palladium to get a new one made up? (from what I've gleaned in other posts about the aborted starships book it sounded like the writer left and took all the notes with them. Is that correct?) I was drooling over it ever since I saw the notes in the 3 other Robotech books.

silvermoon383 wrote:Any ideas on what we can do to get Palladium to get a new one made up? (from what I've gleaned in other posts about the aborted starships book it sounded like the writer left and took all the notes with them. Is that correct?) I was drooling over it ever since I saw the notes in the 3 other Robotech books.

That would be incorrect based on the information provided. He was pooling all the different versions of ships that were shown on screen. But it was still in the infancy stage of development. IE: Ship A is in Ep X time section X.

If another was to pick up the project, this legwork would need to be done again.

Tiree wrote:

silvermoon383 wrote:Any ideas on what we can do to get Palladium to get a new one made up? (from what I've gleaned in other posts about the aborted starships book it sounded like the writer left and took all the notes with them. Is that correct?) I was drooling over it ever since I saw the notes in the 3 other Robotech books.

That would be incorrect based on the information provided. He was pooling all the different versions of ships that were shown on screen. But it was still in the infancy stage of development. IE: Ship A is in Ep X time section X.

If another was to pick up the project, this legwork would need to be done again.

Ah, ok. I had gleaned it months ago so I knew I wasn't remembering totally at 100%.

Shouldn't most that already be documented under numerous fan sites already? The owners of popular Robotech source material sites that I cannot list here should really cut and paste a submission together and bam, we have an instant, official RPG sourcebook.

Certainly, I know there is more to putting a book together than this, but its not like the author needs to be all that creative with this project. Most of the material already exists.

Anyway, the book is mentioned in the Macross and Masters Saga sourcebooks...Palladium owes us.

silvermoon383 wrote:Any ideas on what we can do to get Palladium to get a new one made up?

Apparently not. Several people have offered to pick up the project and see it through to completion, but Palladium doesn't seem interested in reviving the book at the present time. Even I got dragooned into writing to Kevin to offer to do the job myself, using my large (and ever-growing) collection of OSM material and my translations of same, but I don't think anyone who offered has received a response.

Kagashi wrote:Shouldn't most that already be documented under numerous fan sites already? The owners of popular Robotech source material sites that I cannot list here should really cut and paste a submission together and bam, we have an instant, official RPG sourcebook.

Some of them (myself included) have offered... nobody's received a response. The material you'll find on most of the few Robotech fan sites still out there is not exactly what you'd call accurate or complete, and the reference sites for the original shows are of limited applicability since Tommy's stance on some of that data is unknown. (Never mind the type of discontinuity blindly copying from the OSM has already caused, with stuff that doesn't even exist in Robotech being used by mistake.)

Kagashi wrote:Certainly, I know there is more to putting a book together than this, but its not like the author needs to be all that creative with this project. Most of the material already exists.

But how much of it is actually considered accurate by Tommy and co. is the sticking point...

I'm still waiting for ship stats for SDF-3 and 4...

Treefrog wrote:I'm still waiting for ship stats for SDF-3 and 4...

This book be dead Jim

Treefrog wrote:I'm still waiting for ship stats for SDF-3 and 4...

No stats yet for the SDF-3, but game stats for the SDF-4 can be had in the Genesis Pits sourcebook.

Seto Kaiba wrote:

Treefrog wrote:I'm still waiting for ship stats for SDF-3 and 4...

No stats yet for the SDF-3, but game stats for the SDF-4 can be had in the Genesis Pits sourcebook.

Yeah, well - I don't have that particular sourcebook...