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Nether wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Nether wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Yeah they have wings, but they also have huge jet engines providing thrust. With out those jet engines pushing the plane forward and thus air around the wings, they don't glide very far, if at all. yes there are glide ratios for those big planes but they're NOT what you might think they are. As for the spinning, that's easily explained as when the electricity started to go out, the computers went a bit haywire and extended or retracted flaps or something then they locked like that. Not quite as plausible as the plane just going dark and then starting to pitch forward and 'glide' straight into the ground. But possible. The one that landed close by could have been in the midst of a turn when the power went out and it spiraled due to that. Later in the episode we saw some planes had come in to land intact. (( The almost rape scene when they went in the plane)). The thing is, we don't yet know why the power went out like it did. It wasn't a normal act of physics. Even batteries stopped working. It's not like the juice just stopped flowing. A fundamental law of physics was altered/changed. So there's no way to possibly anticipate how planes and other things might be effected by such a change. (( Again I point out this .... was very very much inspired by the SM Sterling series, where the exact same thing happened and one of hte protagonists was actually IN a small plane when it happened and had to try and land with no power.))

Definately not true.

All modern commercial jets like boeing and airbus are also gliders in a sense. Even without fuel or power the pilot can still "glide" the plane in and i believe an airbus 380 (one of the bigger planes) had this exact issue. The thing glided for a very long time considering to a military base on a small island.

So if this happened, planes wouldnt just be falling out of the sky, they are still relatively safe until the landing, which might cause problems. Even helicopters are 'fairly' safe if they only lose power/fuel as the propellers will spin reverse as it falls, allowing for enough cushion on crash dropping that the passengers should be alive, and usually ok.

"You belive" "they 'can'" "A very long time"

Can you give something real and concrete to this? Other than "No I don't think you're right" and vagueness? And Autorotation is not what any chopper pilot is going to call 'fairly safe'. it's a very dangerous very bad day.

Yes, with out thrust or lift, planes fall out of the sky, big commercial airliners are not gliders. They're barely flying rocks. lol.

NO, it's not! I already gave you the basic info that you could have easily googled to confirm what i said was true. This isnt a rpg book where the only way to look up info is to flip thru the book for citation, and we aren't lawyers defending 'only' one side of the arguement.

Your comment shows your knowledge in this area is devoid, which is fine but your statements are blatantly wrong.

Also i was not claiming all planes, primarily modern commercial jets which are not front heavy prop jobs.
So here ya go, I even took like 30 sec to find this for ya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

On the otherhand, what you are saying is YOUR Opinion which I'm not sure what you based that on, but regardless it's wrong.

9 Minutes man. And they had power from emergency means. With out those the plane wouldn't have staid up that long. The emergency ram air turbine was deployed, " to provide essential power for critical sensors and instruments to fly the aircraft." 33,000 feet down is 3,666 feet down per minute. And with out the sensors and instruments... sploosh.

Not to mention they had an hour of prep time from the first indication of problem till they lost the last engine. The planes in the show lost ---- all power---- instantly, at night, with out warning.

azazel1024 wrote:Oh final comment, for now. They are showing a lot of parrafin wax candles in the various scenes. Parrafin wax is more difficult to make than BP or primers.

The candles they are showing are deffinitely not tallow or beeswax candles.

Granted, for production of the show, a few hundred tallow or beeswax candles would be a might harder and more expensive to come by, but the prodigous use that they show in the show is both way beyond what a non-industrial economy would allow and also parrafin wax candles would generally not be within their technology.

Candles weren't something you just lit dozens and dozens of in a room, tallow or bees wax. You lit a couple of candles and carried them around when you needed to see things at night (or used windows during the day). If you had a fair amount of money you might use several to light a room, possibly with a few torches (also not cheap as a torch that is going to last awhile has been soaked in pitch for a long time), maybe a fire in a fire place to supplement a little (which aren't great at lighting rooms) or if you are resonably well to do one or more oil lamps or braziers. Oil lamps aren't necessarily that expensive as you can use vegetable oils in them or even tallow lamps (which are a little cheaper to do than tallow candles). Ideally you'd use whale oil or petroleum oil, the later would be exceedingly hard to get.

I agree that oil lamps would be more the norm considering they are easier to make. However, kerosene lamps could also be in use (just converted to various fuels).

azazel1024 wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:
You guys realize you can bathe with out power right? You just go to a body of water and do it. Might be chilly but it can be done. Or you can have gravity showers. You can even heat water over a fire.

Soap can also be made with out power. Rendering fat for soap has been done for a long long time.

Of course you can. But they are still wearing manufactured clothing. That would not last more than five or ten years with the type of laundry techniques they would have to use. Not to mention all of the women have perfect makeup and hair, even after a night of sleeping on the ground. I realize that that is part of the Hollywood thing, but they could be a little dirtier than they appear.

I'm not sure what show you're watching, but i'm not seeing make up or elaborate hair. In fact, I even commented to my wife that the girl they DO have, isn't pretty enough to helm a big show. I know it's sad but it's the truth, she doesn't have the body and her face is just average.

As for the clothes. *shrugs* I've got jeans and teeshirts from 15 years ago. It takes a good 5 to 10 years to break in jeans right. It's not hard to brush your hair.

He just pointed out the laundry techniques which you'd be forced to use. Unless you are going to rig up an elaborate system to run a modern washer off paddle wheel or bicycle power, you are going to be using a tub or stream and a wash board.

If you're beating them on a rock like a cave man perhaps, but if you take care to wash them it's not like you're going to some how suddenly rip them apart. People see wash boards and seem to think they're cheese graters. lol.

Don't get me wrong. I don't wash my clothes in the creek with sticks or anything, but if you take care, the clothes aren't going to wear out that much faster than throwing them in a machine to be agitated and spun then throwing them in another machine wet to bake them dry.

azazel1024 wrote:

That will destroy even something like thick denim in just a few years of cleaning.

Not really, even back when people used those methods they didn't just go through clothes every year or two. People wore the same things for years. (( heck I do now))

azazel1024 wrote:
Something like a modern jacket which you probably won't be washing much might well last a few decades, even wearing it a lot. Clothes you'd need to or would be washing frequently would wear out in just a very few short years (if not months for some modern cotton shirts and stuff).

Go back a century. How often did people bathe around 1900? A lot less than they do today with the convenience of nearly instant hot water, etc. That was even with running water in their house a lot of times, or within easy reach at a pump in their backyard and a few bucket trips.

Not everyone lives near a lake or stream to bathe in.

They're gonna die pretty quick with out water. Yes there's a difference between drinking and bathing, but if you don't have a body of water that you CAN bathe in, where are you living that you're going to be able to easily exist?

azazel1024 wrote:
When you don't have running water in your house and convenient gas/oil/electric water heating, you bathe significantly less.

It depends. I bathe when I go camping. If I had to live in such a state (( ugg.)) It's not like I'd just be like 'THAT's IT! I GIVE UP!'. You find ways to make do to maintain your way of life as best you can.

azazel1024 wrote:
So, yes, the people should be a lot dirtier and most/all should be wearing hand (or at best waterwheel) loomed clothing of a much thicker design.

I don't agree. Moderate care to keep clean isn't that difficult, and again it's not like they're clacking rocks on their clothes to try and clean them.

azazel1024 wrote:
A lot of modern looking or modern liquor bottles in that one Chicago bar scene as well. I see you don't have any issues with nearly not modern guns, but lots of modern clothes and (I am going to guess here) lots of modern glass bottles isn't an issue?

I'm sure the guns are around, but with out bullets, what are you gonna do? Throw um? LoL

As for the glass bottles. You just refill um once empty. I'm sure the stuff they're drinkin' ain't the best. It was why in the first episode the unckle guy having the one bottle of whisky left was a big deal.

The stuff in the bottles in the 'bar' was probably home brew, or still manufacture. Just put back in bottles to help with the 'look' and selling of such things. If they were in clay pots, I don't think people would buy it as quick.

azazel1024 wrote:

How much are people going to be conserving modern bottles to be reused? I am going to guess very little the first few years.

I wouldn't. Alcohol is good for more than just getting drunk, and as you pointed out, when the water stops coming out of the faucet at your house, you need something to carry it in.

azazel1024 wrote:
Also back to the shoes. Shoes do NOT last that long with daily wearing. Even really great boots aren't going to last more than a few years with daily wear and manual labor. So the stock of modern footwear should basically be gone at this point (even with good cobblers, who are probably rarer today than someone who knows how to reload ammo or make BP/primers, repairing and resouling shoes).

I have boots I bought 8 years ago that are fine.

What you're leaving out, (( because they don't dwell on it much)) is "Most" of the people in the world starved. They're dead. So when they died, there was noone to bury them. So if you need new boots you can just roll to the nearest town and let yourselves into the houses or stores and take what you need.

Now in the first few years, scavaging will be a big deal, but if 1 out of 50 people live, that's 49 people's worth of stuff that you could possibly end up with. yes people will 'Corner the market' on some things, but they'd still be around. You're not going to bury people in shoes and good clothes with guns and tools and stuff. If anything you might bury them in clothes you can't use, if you don't just leave them or burn them (( Alot easier. actually digging a grave is hard work.))

Now, I don't remember it giving any hard numbers on how many people lived, but the one lady in the first episode said she hadn't seen people in weeks (( before the dumb kid)) Actually feeding people with out modern machinery to plant, harvest and transport before it rots or goes bad is hard. I'm guessing 1 in 50, maybe 1 in 100 or more might have lived.

That's alot of 'Stuff" just laying around waiting to be picked up. (( Collected by people in the first few years and stockpiled))

Rappanui wrote:Revolution is so terrible, the fans of the show are ignoring the premise and just hooring for the return of their favorite actor to BAD tv.

the show will die pretty quick, and it's flawed science will dig it mid season grave.

Who's the favorite actor? Biggest guy I've seen is the Monroe guy, who's last effort was 'THE CAPE' lol that lasted about a season.

Still haven't watched the show, but something to take into account regarding the availability of seemingly modern clothing is how much stuff would be sitting on shelves in stores all across the country at the time of the blackout and how much of the population would die off within a relatively short amount of time without access to the energy intensive agriculture we currently practice to feed out 300+ million population.

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Nether wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Nether wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:Yeah they have wings, but they also have huge jet engines providing thrust. With out those jet engines pushing the plane forward and thus air around the wings, they don't glide very far, if at all. yes there are glide ratios for those big planes but they're NOT what you might think they are. As for the spinning, that's easily explained as when the electricity started to go out, the computers went a bit haywire and extended or retracted flaps or something then they locked like that. Not quite as plausible as the plane just going dark and then starting to pitch forward and 'glide' straight into the ground. But possible. The one that landed close by could have been in the midst of a turn when the power went out and it spiraled due to that. Later in the episode we saw some planes had come in to land intact. (( The almost rape scene when they went in the plane)). The thing is, we don't yet know why the power went out like it did. It wasn't a normal act of physics. Even batteries stopped working. It's not like the juice just stopped flowing. A fundamental law of physics was altered/changed. So there's no way to possibly anticipate how planes and other things might be effected by such a change. (( Again I point out this .... was very very much inspired by the SM Sterling series, where the exact same thing happened and one of hte protagonists was actually IN a small plane when it happened and had to try and land with no power.))

Definately not true.

All modern commercial jets like boeing and airbus are also gliders in a sense. Even without fuel or power the pilot can still "glide" the plane in and i believe an airbus 380 (one of the bigger planes) had this exact issue. The thing glided for a very long time considering to a military base on a small island.

So if this happened, planes wouldnt just be falling out of the sky, they are still relatively safe until the landing, which might cause problems. Even helicopters are 'fairly' safe if they only lose power/fuel as the propellers will spin reverse as it falls, allowing for enough cushion on crash dropping that the passengers should be alive, and usually ok.

"You belive" "they 'can'" "A very long time"

Can you give something real and concrete to this? Other than "No I don't think you're right" and vagueness? And Autorotation is not what any chopper pilot is going to call 'fairly safe'. it's a very dangerous very bad day.

Yes, with out thrust or lift, planes fall out of the sky, big commercial airliners are not gliders. They're barely flying rocks. lol.

NO, it's not! I already gave you the basic info that you could have easily googled to confirm what i said was true. This isnt a rpg book where the only way to look up info is to flip thru the book for citation, and we aren't lawyers defending 'only' one side of the arguement.

Your comment shows your knowledge in this area is devoid, which is fine but your statements are blatantly wrong.

Also i was not claiming all planes, primarily modern commercial jets which are not front heavy prop jobs.
So here ya go, I even took like 30 sec to find this for ya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236

On the otherhand, what you are saying is YOUR Opinion which I'm not sure what you based that on, but regardless it's wrong.

9 Minutes man. And they had power from emergency means. With out those the plane wouldn't have staid up that long. The emergency ram air turbine was deployed, " to provide essential power for critical sensors and instruments to fly the aircraft." 33,000 feet down is 3,666 feet down per minute. And with out the sensors and instruments... sploosh.

Not to mention they had an hour of prep time from the first indication of problem till they lost the last engine. The planes in the show lost ---- all power---- instantly, at night, with out warning.

Hey Pepsi,

1st, I just wanted to apologize for my post coming off too strongly.
2nd, I have not seen the tv show, i just liked the sound of the thread so for specifics about the power loss until they were pointed out after the comments about the plane.

And my example was just that, i similar situation that has context with the part of the show with falling planes with the exception of mystically all power is unusable.

The whole claim about clothes lasting longer if they are washed using modern techniques (i.e. a machine) is not true in my experience. Hand washing is a lot more delicate on the fabric if you do it right, in fact some materials really need to be hand washed as a machine will just ruin them. I used to hand wash my clothes with shampoo in the sink, certain clothing I still do that with to avoid quickly ruining it. That said, again, though some clothing can last quite a long time, most just isn't made to. But as for why there is still so much modern clothing in good shape, Ectoplasmic Bidet's explanation is pretty reasonable.

As far as how something like what happened in Revolution happening to Rifts would affect things, well I can't really add much to that conversation that hasn't all ready been said. I don't think the Coalition would really tear itself apart, other forces would likely take care of them too quickly for that to happen (for one I think the Federation of Magic would pretty quickly jump at the opportunity.).

Mind you that I did not say anything about the power being out for more than a month.

Somehow, I don't think that anyone is really going to start marching on the CS in anything less than three weeks (and that's if they are purely magically based) just because it takes time to organize and mobilize a large enough force to seriously threaten the CS. The CS forces may not have the majority of their arsenal, but they still have their body armor to protect them and normal guns, for which they could use to fire Wellington Industries Ramjet Rounds. Not to mention grenades (rifle launched and hand tossed). Plus, I don't know how the CR-1 launches mini-missiles, but it seems to be simple enough to launch with out needing a power source. In short, the CS should still have enough options to slow down enemy advances. They obviously wouldn't know for how long that the power would be out, but they still have some options left to them.

I think that what ever of the CS still survives after the power comes back, they would start producing and stockpiling more conventional weapons capable of doing MD damage without the need for electricity.

azazel1024 wrote:In Dies the Fire, effectively technology stops working for more or less not understood mystical reasons. I mean ALL technology. Gun powder stops working, no internal combustion, steam power won't work, electricity a no go. In this case it is basically explained to be some kind of supernatural event. So instantly everyone is plunged in to the 12th century. No little USB necklace to make things work.

Is this a book or movie or tv series? I have heard of the premise but didn't know specifics

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:Still haven't watched the show, but something to take into account regarding the availability of seemingly modern clothing is how much stuff would be sitting on shelves in stores all across the country at the time of the blackout and how much of the population would die off within a relatively short amount of time without access to the energy intensive agriculture we currently practice to feed out 300+ million population.

Kinda like I pointed out three posts above yours? *G*

The Oh So Amazing Nate wrote:

azazel1024 wrote:In Dies the Fire, effectively technology stops working for more or less not understood mystical reasons. I mean ALL technology. Gun powder stops working, no internal combustion, steam power won't work, electricity a no go. In this case it is basically explained to be some kind of supernatural event. So instantly everyone is plunged in to the 12th century. No little USB necklace to make things work.

Is this a book or movie or tv series? I have heard of the premise but didn't know specifics

It's the SM Sterling series I mentioned. They have.. 3 or 4 just after the power goes out. How the nation balkinizes and some of the different little nations that swing up.

Then about 4 or 5 "One generation after" The heroes from the first 3 or 4 are still around (( The ones that lived)) but THEIR kids are the heroes of the next books. The second group gets a little more into the mystical side of it

Rappanui wrote:

Pepsi Jedi wrote:

Rappanui wrote:Revolution is so terrible, the fans of the show are ignoring the premise and just hooring for the return of their favorite actor to BAD tv.

the show will die pretty quick, and it's flawed science will dig it mid season grave.

Who's the favorite actor? Biggest guy I've seen is the Monroe guy, who's last effort was 'THE CAPE' lol that lasted about a season.

Revolution stars the guy from Fire fly.

..... Not to my knowledge. Nathan Fillian is on Castle. If you're thinking the black guy is Book, he's not. Nor is the bad guy off Firefly, nor the Uncle....

Aside from some folks who have worked with JJ Abrams in the past, most of the cast are relative nonbodies or alumni of the tween crowd shows. And definitely no Firefly alumni.

From: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2070791/fullcredits

Actually, Ben was Danny and Charlie's dad, Miles is the Uncle.

i rather enjoy the show , sure the actor are clean, and if i wanted i could pick the show apart but i rather sit back and be entertain for a hour.

Rappanui wrote:I watched the Pilot Episode, the guy i was confused with was Tom Guinee, and that guy has been in alot of roles, on alot of shows i liked. I'd say he has a following by now.

Yeah, never saw those shows, and definitely not a following for me. I did mention that to a coworker this, "Man the only thing this show could get better, is if Nathan Fillion was the uncle."

Its a JJ Abrams show, it's not meant to make sense! It's meant to be enjoyed and to utterly confound its viewership, or do I need to bring up Lost?

And yeah, you're right, I got those two backwards, fixing it.

azazel1024 wrote:I think you watched a different show than what I watched. It was horrible.

Basic idea is just fine. Execution, 2 out of 10.

Come on, a USB necklace that can allow electricity to work? Really.

You allow it to work...and somehow it allows telephone/network cables between you and the person you are communicating with to also work? All of the power generators/batteries along the way to power the telecom equipment to also work? I assume there was a battery pack under the table, because I didn't see or hear a generator anywhere either.

Either make it magical or make it technology-psuedo magic, but don't make it some USB thumb drive that you load some code on. Sheesh.

Oh, and planes don't go spinning out of the sky if electricity stops working. They have these things called wings and most are not fly by wire or fly by light to top it off (and even if they were, they wouldn't go spinning).

Lastly, how does everyone have swords? This is all of 15 years later. A sword is not the easiest thing in the world to make. Muskets too? Again, why? They show a couple of modern guns. In the US there are so many friggen modern guns you wouldn't need to resort to muskets only 15 years later. Making reloads for modern guns is inifinitely easier than forging a sword or making a musket from scratch. That is ignoring the billions of rounds of ammo around the US for all of the hundre million plus modern fire arms laying around as well.

I agree 100%. I watched 30 minutes of the show and turned it off. Honestly I thought the acting was subpar, but that was probably done on purpose to match the equally bad script. Also, and this is just me, but I thought there was propoganda during the show last night, here's my explaination: One of the main antagonist looks like Obama. He's going around the countryside causing havoc with his militia. He then goes to someone's house and sees a deer that was killed with gunfire (in this show it's against the law for citizens not in the militia to own guns). He orders his men to search the house where they find an American flag and shotgun that was used to kill the deer. After a speach of some sort his men burn the flag, take his shotgun, and kill the man. Yeah,ok... Tell me this show wasn't propoganda. I lost a lot of respect for NBC (what little I had), and won't be watching this show.

Can we please get back to the original post?

to the OP,

You need to give your specifics if you want your senerio to work here. So if the power goes out and you dont like the idea of the cs falling within a month, you cannot say; I did not say how long. especially when you are using the tv show as your bases.

The CS falls, the cities cannot maintain themselves without supplies, New York has to have 24/7 shipment or it will die out within days. Without supplies with millions getting hungry law and order would begin to break down. CS would be no different. They could not bring in the supplies. and air circulation would be an issue as it was already brought up.

I do not see the big nations of magic being better off either. as a good of thier citizens still use power. I'd even say anything techno wizard would be affected because thier magic is influanced by the technology. so cripple one cripple the other. well until you rework the magic to new spells.

I do not see the other nations being the real killer as i see it more as everyone becomes the killers. those who do not have will try to get it from those who have. now throw in some random monster from a rift and you have people panicing and fighting to get in to those cities, setting them under siege.

Without the cs the mid west and east begin to collasp as trade routes break down, the univesal credit is shattered. And thos creature that worried about being hunted down with technology are taken care of.

So North America burns while the gambling halls in Atlantis bet on the events as they unfold.

Overall i gotta agree with Gargoyle except for the magic cities running off TW failing. I dont think the TW would fail as they are powered by magic energy, not by pure tech electricity. This would leave magic kingdoms in decent shape depending on how much they prefer TW vs reg tech for power.

So Dweomer I would think is barely affected.
Lazlo I am thinking would take some big hits but would survive, though with alot of crime and peeps fighting for resources in the city.

Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

Juicers probably not, they'd be in immediate withdrawal instead.

Ya it would suck to be a full conversion when this went down. Peeps feared you, now they just collect junk off your metal tomb.

Alot of Headhunter might live as long as they didnt have any life support cyber. But as for arm, leg, eye, well they are screwed there and just imagine that they would have to cut that out of them so they could move around without the kg? useless limb slowing them down.

think of the diease that would spread from the mass death. the reak of it alone could bring tons of nasty creatures, viruses that have laid dormant for hundreds of years mutating like SAR on MDC level, preventing magical healing as well as normal Healing!

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

So Crazies would become... crazier?

Rappanui wrote:any Gm planning to run a rifts campaign around mass death and starvation, might as well put away the rifts book, and dig out something else. The amount of devestation is entirely game breaking and players will be left with nothing useful. Only the most massochistic of gamers would play along with this scenario.

You mean Like PFRPG, or maybe in this case Chaos Earth?

I would role play sometihng like this, however not in the rifts setting. its already there and much more destroy what balance there is.

I was saying if you want to play in a game with low tech and magic, PF would be better. if you want the mass reign of death and destrution chaos earth. heck dead reign might be good for a end of the world feel to. I have not played it so i cannot honestly say.

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

Juicers probably not, they'd be in immediate withdrawal instead.

The shock of detox would probably kill them without medical attention, which will not be possible without power for the machines to monitor their condition.

dragonfett wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

So Crazies would become... crazier?

I hadn't even considered them. But it raises a good point. How much of their brain would die from loss of power to their implants?

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

Juicers probably not, they'd be in immediate withdrawal instead.

The shock of detox would probably kill them without medical attention, which will not be possible without power for the machines to monitor their condition.

I think you need to check the rules on Juicers, an effect that negates their chemical augmentation (Purge Others for example) doesn't hold an instant-death deal and people have been monitoring medical conditions and treating drug detox for far longer than technology has been around. It's not something that requires super-technology to perform. All you need is a competent individual trained in treating Juicer detoxification or a medical doctor skilled enough to cover it in general and access to the (unlisted) things required to bring them down.

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

Juicers probably not, they'd be in immediate withdrawal instead.

The shock of detox would probably kill them without medical attention, which will not be possible without power for the machines to monitor their condition.

I think you need to check the rules on Juicers, an effect that negates their chemical augmentation (Purge Others for example) doesn't hold an instant-death deal and people have been monitoring medical conditions and treating drug detox for far longer than technology has been around. It's not something that requires super-technology to perform. All you need is a competent individual trained in treating Juicer detoxification or a medical doctor skilled enough to cover it in general and access to the (unlisted) things required to bring them down.

And how many doctors can realistically handle a detoxing Juicer without any technology and spoiled medications (most of which require refrigeration)? A good majority of doctors, even in today's society, have never practiced without medical machines to assist. Besides, who is going to have time for detoxing a Juicer when there are going to be many other concerns from the loss of all power driven technology?

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:

Nightmask wrote:

Icefalcon wrote:Borgs, Juicers and Headhunters would die almost immediately considering their lives depend on some type of power source. (Juicers because the bio-comp is what controls their drug harnesses)

Juicers probably not, they'd be in immediate withdrawal instead.

The shock of detox would probably kill them without medical attention, which will not be possible without power for the machines to monitor their condition.

I think you need to check the rules on Juicers, an effect that negates their chemical augmentation (Purge Others for example) doesn't hold an instant-death deal and people have been monitoring medical conditions and treating drug detox for far longer than technology has been around. It's not something that requires super-technology to perform. All you need is a competent individual trained in treating Juicer detoxification or a medical doctor skilled enough to cover it in general and access to the (unlisted) things required to bring them down.

And how many doctors can realistically handle a detoxing Juicer without any technology and spoiled medications (most of which require refrigeration)? A good majority of doctors, even in today's society, have never practiced without medical machines to assist. Besides, who is going to have time for detoxing a Juicer when there are going to be many other concerns from the loss of all power driven technology?

Well now you can't speak to how difficult it is to handle detoxing a Juicer now can you? Or that the drugs require refrigeration for that matter (haven't heard where Juicers carry mini-fridges strapped to them to refrigerate their drugs so doesn't seem likely they require refrigeration), or that doctors are somehow incompetent without a machine when those machines aren't essential for most things and certainly aren't essential for handling dealing with drug withdrawal. There are also plenty of old-fashioned methods of keeping things cool (like the old-school Root Cellars ), enough to keep man medications cool as needed. Whether or not people would be dealing with someone suffering from Juicer detox would come down to whether or not there were other people with greater need around or how important the now former juicer is to someone else.

The real scary thing for that juicer isn't going to be surviving detox. It's going to the fear of what happens when the power comes back on.

Slight001 wrote:The real scary thing for that juicer isn't going to be surviving detox. It's going to the fear of what happens when the power comes back on.

HUh? Care to explain what you mean, cause I have no idea.

So long as he's got the bio-comps implanted there is the risk of them coming back online. In the absense of a drug harness the bio-comps will amp up the bodies production of the natural versions of the juicer chemical cocktail. In other words when the power comes back on said juicer is going to start getting juiced in a bad way.

Slight001 wrote:So long as he's got the bio-comps implanted there is the risk of them coming back online. In the absense of a drug harness the bio-comps will amp up the bodies production of the natural versions of the juicer chemical cocktail. In other words when the power comes back on said juicer is going to start getting juiced in a bad way.

Likely no worse than the first time around that the Juicer underwent conversion though. Its not like suddenly it is going to pour neurotoxins in to his body. Might be a bit of a "head rush", especially if not prepared for it. Of course getting completely clean after that (if so desired) might be especially hard. A little bit like an addict relapsing.

Slight001 wrote:So long as he's got the bio-comps implanted there is the risk of them coming back online. In the absense of a drug harness the bio-comps will amp up the bodies production of the natural versions of the juicer chemical cocktail. In other words when the power comes back on said juicer is going to start getting juiced in a bad way.

Exactly how would the Bio-Comp work with out power?

i would think once the juicer detoxed he would have to remove the whole set up. I do not imagine it to be a very comfortable harness and without the drugs to dull those senses. But its not like the juicer could not just inject himself with drugs to maintain the same effect, mind you with mass risk.

Now image someone stuck inside a underground complex which requires power to open its massive doors, no lights, no fresh air, starving is not the concern. the walls closing in is.

dragonfett wrote:

Slight001 wrote:So long as he's got the bio-comps implanted there is the risk of them coming back online. In the absense of a drug harness the bio-comps will amp up the bodies production of the natural versions of the juicer chemical cocktail. In other words when the power comes back on said juicer is going to start getting juiced in a bad way.

Exactly how would the Bio-Comp work with out power?

It wouldn't without power, but once the power is restored is the problem. I very much doubt that anyone is going to be performing the major surgery needed to remove the two bio-comps. Which IIRC are most commonly installed near the heart and in the brain. Most important is that while only one Bio-Comp is needed they are installed in pairs as a backup for each other.

Though there is the question of bio-electric energy fields and their application in powering implants.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:i would think once the juicer detoxed he would have to remove the whole set up. I do not imagine it to be a very comfortable harness and without the drugs to dull those senses. But its not like the juicer could not just inject himself with drugs to maintain the same effect, mind you with mass risk.

Removing the Bio-Comps is major surgery they are usually installed near the heart or in the brain. The drug harness itself is just a storage system for the drugs used by the bio-comp to boost the performance specs of the subjects body. However, the Bio-Comp can highjack the bodies natural processes and cause the corresponding organs to increase their output.

My thought was based not on the manual process of juicing which would as you said carry great risk and more then likely sub-par performance. However, I can only imagine that without a drug harness to support the levels needed the natural organs would fail and rather quickly.

Slight001 wrote:

dragonfett wrote:

Slight001 wrote:So long as he's got the bio-comps implanted there is the risk of them coming back online. In the absense of a drug harness the bio-comps will amp up the bodies production of the natural versions of the juicer chemical cocktail. In other words when the power comes back on said juicer is going to start getting juiced in a bad way.

Exactly how would the Bio-Comp work with out power?

It wouldn't without power, but once the power is restored is the problem. I very much doubt that anyone is going to be performing the major surgery needed to remove the two bio-comps. Which IIRC are most commonly installed near the heart and in the brain. Most important is that while only one Bio-Comp is needed they are installed in pairs as a backup for each other.

Though there is the question of bio-electric energy fields and their application in powering implants.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:i would think once the juicer detoxed he would have to remove the whole set up. I do not imagine it to be a very comfortable harness and without the drugs to dull those senses. But its not like the juicer could not just inject himself with drugs to maintain the same effect, mind you with mass risk.

Removing the Bio-Comps is major surgery they are usually installed near the heart or in the brain. The drug harness itself is just a storage system for the drugs used by the bio-comp to boost the performance specs of the subjects body. However, the Bio-Comp can highjack the bodies natural processes and cause the corresponding organs to increase their output.

My thought was based not on the manual process of juicing which would as you said carry great risk and more then likely sub-par performance. However, I can only imagine that without a drug harness to support the levels needed the natural organs would fail and rather quickly.

well you will have to remove the drugs to stay alive. but i imagine this is not gonna be an issue. since this is not something anyone is working on in the rifts universe.

Slight001 wrote:

dragonfett wrote:

Slight001 wrote:So long as he's got the bio-comps implanted there is the risk of them coming back online. In the absense of a drug harness the bio-comps will amp up the bodies production of the natural versions of the juicer chemical cocktail. In other words when the power comes back on said juicer is going to start getting juiced in a bad way.

Exactly how would the Bio-Comp work with out power?

It wouldn't without power, but once the power is restored is the problem. I very much doubt that anyone is going to be performing the major surgery needed to remove the two bio-comps. Which IIRC are most commonly installed near the heart and in the brain. Most important is that while only one Bio-Comp is needed they are installed in pairs as a backup for each other.

Though there is the question of bio-electric energy fields and their application in powering implants.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:i would think once the juicer detoxed he would have to remove the whole set up. I do not imagine it to be a very comfortable harness and without the drugs to dull those senses. But its not like the juicer could not just inject himself with drugs to maintain the same effect, mind you with mass risk.

Removing the Bio-Comps is major surgery they are usually installed near the heart or in the brain. The drug harness itself is just a storage system for the drugs used by the bio-comp to boost the performance specs of the subjects body. However, the Bio-Comp can highjack the bodies natural processes and cause the corresponding organs to increase their output.

My thought was based not on the manual process of juicing which would as you said carry great risk and more then likely sub-par performance. However, I can only imagine that without a drug harness to support the levels needed the natural organs would fail and rather quickly.

I just misread what you wrote.