YF-4 Sighted!

[Chris0013]

Also something to use in a Colonies book down the line...who is to say a colony does not have a semi-independent militia that uses them.

[ShadowLogan]

probably not. the YF-4 was supposed to be a failed program. but IMO the the Conbat fighter was probably an attempt to salvage the program, taking the data and rough design of the fighter mode (which by HG fluff, was he least buggy mode), and making a monoform space superiority fighter from it.

Well if we go by the 2E RPG time line concerning these two units (YF-4 & Conbat) given a lack from RT.com on Conbat dates (YF-4 matches):
VF-X-4's earliest date mentioned is 2012
Conbat gets a first flight in 2013
VF-X-4 is canceled/shelved in 2015
Conbat in 2035 surpassed lifespan of the airframe, resulting in mechanical failure/fatigue based losses, with full production ending (though limited production remained)
Conbat in 2037 is officially retired after 10th MD.

This makes the Conbat less likely as a salvage effort of the VF-X-4 design resulting from cancellation (unless the writing was on the wall as far back as 2013). Now the Conbat may have spun off from the VF-X-4 as a non-variable test article in 2013 that was so successful it was pushed into service entry as a stand alone design.

[Chris0013]

So has anyone seen the guardian and battloid modes of this yet?

[Protoculture]

So has anyone seen the guardian and battloid modes of this yet?

Ohhh, you mean the YF-4 Prototype Veritech. Yep, we do. From both OSM and Robotech sources.

Although from OSM, we only have Fighter & Gerwalk (aka Guardian) modes for VFX-4 (or YF-4 in RT):

- Fighter
http://s203.photobucket.com/user/RDF-HQ/media/Mecha/vfx4_fighter.jpg.html

- Gerwalk (Guardian)
http://s203.photobucket.com/user/RDF-HQ/media/Mecha/vfx4_gerwalk.jpg.html

From RT resources, we've the Fighter, Guardian & Battloid modes for YF-4:

- Fighter (from RT Comic miniseries by Wildstorm):
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/RDF-HQ/Mecha/YF-4_in_battle.jpg.html

- All Modes (Fighter, Guardian & Battloid - from RT RPG Tactics):
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/RDF-HQ/Mecha/YF-4_3modes.jpg.html

- Battloid Mode (RT RPG Tactics):
http://s203.photobucket.com/user/RDF-HQ/media/Mecha/YF_4Battloid_Grunt.jpg.html
http://s203.photobucket.com/user/RDF-HQ/media/Mecha/YF_4Battloid.jpg.html

[Seto Kaiba]

So has anyone seen the guardian and battloid modes of this yet?

Ohhh, you mean the YF-4 Prototype Veritech. Yep, we do. From both OSM and Robotech sources.

Although from OSM, we only have Fighter & Gerwalk (aka Guardian) modes for VFX-4 (or YF-4 in RT):

Er... at the risk of puncturing your enthusiasm somewhat, the art you've selected there is an unused transformation design study that was done later. In the official production material, the only art for the VF-X-4 is its fighter mode. That unused design study influenced the transformation of the final VF-4 design in Macross: Flashback 2012 in some ways, but its only direct use was as inspiration for another unused concept design (the VF-X-7). The actual, completed VF-4 transformation didn't even appear until almost ten years later.

[Protoculture]

So has anyone seen the guardian and battloid modes of this yet?

Ohhh, you mean the YF-4 Prototype Veritech. Yep, we do. From both OSM and Robotech sources.

Although from OSM, we only have Fighter & Gerwalk (aka Guardian) modes for VFX-4 (or YF-4 in RT):

Er... at the risk of puncturing your enthusiasm somewhat, the art you've selected there is an unused transformation design study that was done later. In the official production material, the only art for the VF-X-4 is its fighter mode. That unused design study influenced the transformation of the final VF-4 design in Macross: Flashback 2012 in some ways, but its only direct use was as inspiration for another unused concept design (the VF-X-7). The actual, completed VF-4 transformation didn't even appear until almost ten years later.

Hmmmm, you mean, VF-X-4 as per its early origin is just the fighter lineart such as this:
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/RDF-HQ/Mecha/vf-x-4.jpg

Thanks for the head's up, Seto. BTW, I need a little help from you. When did the 'chibi VF-4' designed by Kawamori first appeared, because I think it was way before the official release of Macross VF-X PS game & the unveiling of VF-4G Lightning III back in 1997. The image in question is here:
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/RDF-HQ/Mecha/VF-4_EarlyTransform.jpg

[tobefrnk]

I've used VF-4s in my Pioneer squadrons. Limited runs. They were included in the combat squadrons to provide long-range assault support for Alphas. Eventually they were pushed out due to losses and the high maintenance turn arounds. Combined forces of Conbats, Condors, and Alphas proved to be just as effective with easier maintenance. I think that's an overlooked strength of the Alpha. Think about it. Lunk was able to maintain three Alphas with little resources, all under field conditions. That's simply amazing.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hmmmm, you mean, VF-X-4 as per its early origin is just the fighter lineart such as this:
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/RDF-HQ/Mecha/vf-x-4.jpg

Yep, that's right. The two views of the VF-X-4's fighter mode are the only production line art of the VF-X-4 known to exist. The other, concept art for how it might've transformed if Studio Nue had ever decided to use the design again didn't really see the light of day until Shoji Kawamori's Macross Design Works book went to print, which is where that piece you're inquiring about below came from as well. The GERWALK mode concept piece inspired Kawamori to use that basic configuration on another, concept piece that was only recently inducted into Macross's canon... the VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie from the original designs series Advanced Valkyrie, which debuted in 1985.

In general terms, it's usually assumed that the VF-X-4 was a non-transforming mockup used to test the aerodynamic soundness of the design, and that (like a great many other VFs in Macross) other VF-X versions were produced later to test the viability of the transformation and so on. (The VF-4 Lightning III's Mechanic Sheet in Macross Chronicle identifies a "VF-X-4V1" but declines to give any significant information about it.) I'll vaguely recall Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2 had something on VF-X-4 development both pre- and post-war, which may be interest. I'll dig that out.

Thanks for the head's up, Seto. BTW, I need a little help from you. When did the 'chibi VF-4' designed by Kawamori first appeared, because I think it was way before the official release of Macross VF-X PS game & the unveiling of VF-4G Lightning III back in 1997. The image in question is here:
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa125/RDF-HQ/Mecha/VF-4_EarlyTransform.jpg

To be 100% sure, I'd have to check my copy of Kawamori's Macross Design Works book, but I'm pretty sure the piece in question was produced in 1996. The image in question is actually the top half of a page from said book. I'm pretty sure it was summer 1996, but once I get home and dig out my copy I can be precise down to the month (either May or August, I think). Kawamori'd been toying with how to make the completed VF-4 transform for like six years by that point... to the extent that he'd been beaten to the punch by Macross II's creators, who'd trotted out their own version (the VF-4 Siren) for Macross: Eternal Love Song, one of Macross II's two prequels.

[Seto Kaiba]

Combined forces of Conbats, Condors, and Alphas proved to be just as effective with easier maintenance. I think that's an overlooked strength of the Alpha. Think about it. Lunk was able to maintain three Alphas with little resources, all under field conditions. That's simply amazing.

"Just as effective" is a bit unclear, what with the massive attrition suffered by the Alpha for various reasons (mainly revolving around its powerplant sending a "Hey, I'm over here! Shoot my arse down!" signal directly to the enemy) during the 20+ years of its service with the Expeditionary Forces. Jim/Lunk being able to maintain a few units in the field is probably a bit misleading too... he probably wasn't wanting for spare parts, since huge numbers of Alphas and transports carrying supplies had literally fallen from the sky mere months earlier, many of which apparently had been left completely undisturbed for fear of the Invid (the way we see Rand stumble upon one early on that had a hold full of new VR-052s).

[jaymz]

I use the VF-4 in "my" Robotech as an interceptor/heavier assault unit along with a VF-5 while hte VF/A-6 is the close support fighter of choice and the only mass produced one with additional FAST packs and TREAD units for versatility allowing it to be used in an interception or long range combat role in space.

[tobefrnk]

Combined forces of Conbats, Condors, and Alphas proved to be just as effective with easier maintenance. I think that's an overlooked strength of the Alpha. Think about it. Lunk was able to maintain three Alphas with little resources, all under field conditions. That's simply amazing.

"Just as effective" is a bit unclear, what with the massive attrition suffered by the Alpha for various reasons (mainly revolving around its powerplant sending a "Hey, I'm over here! Shoot my arse down!" signal directly to the enemy) during the 20+ years of its service with the Expeditionary Forces. Jim/Lunk being able to maintain a few units in the field is probably a bit misleading too... he probably wasn't wanting for spare parts, since huge numbers of Alphas and transports carrying supplies had literally fallen from the sky mere months earlier, many of which apparently had been left completely undisturbed for fear of the Invid (the way we see Rand stumble upon one early on that had a hold full of new VR-052s).

My version of the VF-4 was Protoculture based, so no advantage over the Alpha there.

Now to risk a little off topic. As for Lunk having little resources, I guess I'd be more clear in saying that Lunk didn't have a trained maintenance crew or ready access to a hanger/maintenance bay. The idea that he was able to keep the mecha forces or the group functioning at the levels they were is a credit to him, and the perceived ease of maintenance. Such a trait would be highly desirable in a staple mecha for a long term expedition/combat fleet. With dedicated crews and service bays, I can speculate that turnaround time for an Alpha would be amazingly quick versus the turnaround time for a VF-4.

[Seto Kaiba]

Thanks for the head's up, Seto. BTW, I need a little help from you. When did the 'chibi VF-4' designed by Kawamori first appeared, because I think it was way before the official release of Macross VF-X PS game & the unveiling of VF-4G Lightning III back in 1997.

Huh... on consultation of Shoji Kawamori's Macross Design Works book, it seems you were right. The chibi-fied art was penned several years before VF-X came out. It's dated May 1990. The early sketches of the VF-X-4's transformation are all dated 1984, the year after the fighter appeared in the series. The completed VF-4 version is dated March 1995.

EDIT: Incidentally, the art you had there is Macross Design Works page 069 upper half.

My version of the VF-4 was Protoculture based, so no advantage over the Alpha there.

Ah, that'd do it.

Now to risk a little off topic. As for Lunk having little resources, I guess I'd be more clear in saying that Lunk didn't have a trained maintenance crew or ready access to a hanger/maintenance bay.

Dunno 'bout that, Lunk might not have had a trained, dedicated maintenance crew... but he did have several exceptionally capable individuals with varying degrees of specialist military training to lend a hand. It's not like he was maintaining those aircraft alone.

With dedicated crews and service bays, I can speculate that turnaround time for an Alpha would be amazingly quick versus the turnaround time for a VF-4.

You never know... the VF-1 never seemed to need much in the way of maintenance either, even when operating in pretty harsh conditions, and Scott's merry band never really ran into stiff opposition and took very little in the way of damage in combat.