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Giant2005 wrote:

Rappanui wrote:one of the big nerfs Gun master has was that it was NOT allowed to take Weapon Proficiencies.

They automatically start with W.P.s for all modern weapons. They have Sharpshooting for all weapons and being proficient is a requirement of Sharpshooting.

That's pretty ridiculous compared to other OCCs.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

Giant2005 wrote:

Rappanui wrote:one of the big nerfs Gun master has was that it was NOT allowed to take Weapon Proficiencies.

They automatically start with W.P.s for all modern weapons. They have Sharpshooting for all weapons and being proficient is a requirement of Sharpshooting.

That's pretty ridiculous compared to other OCCs.

--flatline

Actually that's about the same as the Weapon Expert Hardware character in HU....

Edit - upon furhter looking - it really is just the hardware weapons expert with some minor add ons by level....

I was just looking at Rifter #23 for the CS TAG thing. I was pretty unimpressed.

The skill requirements make sense and are fine.

The attribute requirements are fine.

The restrictions with OCC and MOS's and skill cost are ridiculous.

The skill bonuses are pretty ho hum.

The combat bonuses are also pretty ho hum. +2 on aimed. +2 called but takes two attacks? Is that in addition to the +2 aimed (so now +4 on a called). Why does it take 2 attacks?

The cybernetics are just ehh, whatever. They are not related to or cause the skill or combat bonuses and they are something anyone can get without TAG training.

Under "Some General Notes about Sniping" the last line is "For a CS TAG operative the bonus to a called shot increases with the weapon proficiency (i.e. +1 to called shots for every three levels of experience)."

I thought a called shot was a type of aimed shot, a sub-set thereof. I also thought that the bonuses for an aimed shot apply to called shots. So their statement only makes sense if they mean as an addition to the aimed shot bonus.

Anyways, at this time, I'm pretty uninspired.

Now the ranged combat optional rules in Rifter #11, that is good stuff.

tsh77769

That article predates RUE which changed aimed shots to two attacks, called shots to two attacks and aimed called shots to three attacks. Also Called shots were never an aimed shot. It just means it is harder to hit as you are specifically trying to hit an actual location other than main body (without aiming). Old way you needed a 12+ to hit a called shot now it just takes two attacks but normal hit numbers apply.

While not overly impressive it is more than just saying you are a sniper since you have the sniper skill. T me the sniper skill is more of a "marksmanship" skill.

AS for the ranged combat trainig yes THAT is being a sniper

Perhaps a Seeron Human with Drunken Master style. Won't matter what he uses as long as he's drunk enough to think it works well.

If you are able to include Martial Arts from Ninjas & Superspies, try to include the NSS version of Zanji Shinjinken-Ryu. Yeah, the whole sword thing is sort of irrelevant, but the art is designed to inflict damage with a weapon primarily. And It'll give you access to the Martial Art powers that will help out the most for a gun wielding character:

One Life One shot one hit one kill: This has been talked about Already

Iai-Jutsu and/or Zanshin. There's nothing stated that the init bonuses wouldn't apply with a gun in hand. And in its unrevised form Zanshin gives you automatic initiative in gunfight ranges. For a visual of applying iai-jutsu to a quick-draw, watch the movie Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai. In fact, watch it anyway, it's awesome.

Body Chi: Most chi mastery powers as written don't transmit well to an MDC environment. Body chi is the exception. You can use it to increase your PS, PP, and Speed temporarily. Go take a look at what bonuses look like with a PP of 40, and then realize that it would stack with the Gunfighter's Quick Draw, the Quick Draw Skill, and then give an init bonus just for being up there.

Good intel. It does start to loose the flavor I'm looking for a bit though. I'm trying to avoid too much mysticism or any magic.

I do agree with you on the zanshin and the Iaijutsu. However, I would probably avoid the body chi.

The focus I have in mind is training (skills, including those from other settings and Rifter mags), possibly a not overly mystic martial art, limited cybernetics (not full on borg, not artificial limbs) like amplified hearing, combat computer, multi-optics, and equipment like Wilks and customized tech guns.

I want the flavor to be more like SF/commando/wild west/Eastwood/Equilibrium/Way of the Gun and less like mystic ninja with guns or Wanted (yuck).

That said, I am still interested in creating a full fledged martial art for sniping using the martial art powers. Arts of invisibility for getting into, staying in, and getting out of position. Zanshin for remaining aware and responding to intrusions of the hide site. Iaijutsu for snap shots or transitions to secondary weapons. Winter summer body hardening for enduring climate exposure in the field, especially while waiting in position. But no Chi, Zenjorike, or Atemi stuff.

Tsh77769

Rappanui wrote:

Rappanui wrote:one of the big nerfs Gun master has was that it was NOT allowed to take Weapon Proficiencies.
BUT had a Kata and a bonus power where it can use any gun. but there was never an errata to fix that... hence it's no worse then Natural combat ability in terms of gunfu.
the other moves it has are emulatable with instant weapon power.

your version must be errata'd, the OCC specifically did NOT include WP'!.. (because it was a typo!)

All Kata powers include the WP (at least in N&SS, I would assume this holds elsewhere as well)

Giant2005 wrote:If you want to make an amazing Gunman, the trick is to stack strike bonuses that don't require an aimed shot to get the benefit of.

This used to be the base because all the early energy guns could do bursts, which was the ideal way to stack up damage.

Now with most of Palladium's new guns being single-shot, the reason for this is now due to the 'aimed=2' retcon of RUE.

There ARE still pulse weapons, but I think people tend to forget that those count as bursts and should have strike penalties. =/

Killer Cyborg wrote:You'll want a martial art that gives you the One Life, One Shot, One Hit, One Kill power from N&S.

That's great for a sniper, in which case, one may as well look for the 'aimed shot' exclusive bonuses too.

eliakon wrote:I was under the impression that you cant use martial arts abilities with modern weapons (Triad Assasin being the lone exception)

This tends to be the case but the OSOHOK ability explicitly says it works with guns.

Incriptus wrote:Dinosaur Hunters have a special skill that can be taken for 3 other skills called "Stalking" it has another +1 to strike. (along with several other bonuses)

Dang, you mean I should look closer at Dinosaur Swamp for reasons besides summonable minions?

Dog_O_War wrote:a roll of a 1 always misses

Does anyone remember where RUE says this? Was this the first appearance of the natural 1 rule in Palladium or had another system subtly introduced it elsewhere prior to this?

I could have sworn in the past there were even combat examples like "they rolled a 1 but had +4 to strike so they hit" or something. Could be misremembering.

ShadowLogan wrote:Targeting sight is +1strike w/ranged weapon, of note Mutants in Orbit has a +2 version on pg91)

MiO is full of all kinds of gems. Though the orbital defenses don't really impress me much since it's implied that the CS and NGR can't pass them and that it even took out a Cosmo-Knight. Based on the printed stats and how many kill-sats there are, I don't think it's plausible. I think GMs should multiply all satellite damage and payloads by 10 if we're to believe they can contain Rifts Earth at the power level it's inflated to now. MiO could plausibly contain RMB stuff but not all the later stuff.

Thinyser wrote:These give autododge, the ability to dodge incoming ranged attacks (with some bonuses!), the ability to shoot or throw from a moving vehicle or horse, while hanging upside down, or while falling/leaping without penalty

you can often shoot first (large initiative bonus) autododge (leap away) any incoming ranged attacks and make a simultaneous shot while leaping and still get bonuses to your autododge and no penalties to the simultaneous shot

You can't do both autododge and do a simultaneous attack. Falling/leaping would cover non-dodging situations, like shooting at someone while in freefall out of a plane, or jumping and aiming your gun overtop of a wall to shoot before coming back down.

Thinyser wrote:Well color me surprised.

I'm not totally surprised, I noticed these changes in Dead Reign, though it didn't occur to me to check to see if RUE had been influenced by it. Hearing about the retcon of HtHcommando it should've been expected though...

HtH assassin got bonuses with throwing weapons in N&SS so I guess it's just an extension of that development. At least in that case it came with a WP kata to explain it though.

flatline wrote:That's a curious bonus to get from your hand to hand training...

Thinyser wrote:I (and every GM I've played under) allow the PP bonus to be applied to guns the HtH bonus never gets applied to guns since its specifically HAND TO HAND.

Considering that the sharpshooter skill allows PP-based strike bonuses with guns, how do you work that in if everyone is already getting them? Stack them so it's basically double? Sharpshooter skills were an equalizer regarding PP and melee weapons, and you've equalized everyone so now it loses much of its unique purpose compared to other forms of sharpshooter abilities that lack the sharpshooter aimed/called shots.

tsh77769 wrote:in Robotech Shadow Chronicles, as part of building your character there is a special trait or quirk you can pick or roll for your character that gives them a small bonus. One of them is +2 to strike with all sorts of guns and cannons, a different one is +1 APM.

Not unique to Robotech either, I believe tables like this exist in Dead Reign and were also added to Heart of Magic... or was that some other PF sourcebook I'm thinking of...

Killer Cyborg wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:W.P. Paired Weapons (I know I've seen Modern W.P. examples). This would allow one to use two (or more if multi-limbed) guns simultaneously (at least by the rules), effectively doubling APM (not a literal doubling though).

If your character is ambidextrous, then both hands should count as your "regular hand," meaning that your strike penalties would only be -2/-2, not -2/-6.

Didn't even think of this. Also I think that guys who naturally get paired guns (gunslingers and stuff) don't suffer the penalties. I'm not even sure one needs paired WP to use paired guns though. The footnote appears there, sure, but it's an ancient WP skill.

jaymz wrote:That article predates RUE which changed aimed shots to two attacks, called shots to two attacks and aimed called shots to three attacks. Also Called shots were never an aimed shot.

I'm pretty certain that back in the RMB days, all called shots had to be aimed shots. The only distinction I recall was CMB where you used a different set of bonuses for called aimed shots which were better than basic (main body) aimed shots.

That part never made much sense to me since this always made your attacks harder to avoid, there was no disadvantage at all to making called shots, shots at long range, or shots at AR, so long as you hit whichever of those 'to hit' numbers was the highest. They should've been stackable penalties to a strike roll which would have made for easier dodges.

Rappanui wrote:One of my Early attempts was just make a human mutant with APS: Limb Tentacles (all) , Multitasking,Sidestep, and Enhanced senses (any) With a Gunslinger OCC: == 16 paired tentacle attacks per Melee action, with standard HTH bonuses ... that's 80 attacks per melee. with at least 4 natural 20's being with in easy reach. and even if you limited the guns to pistols only 12lbs or less, that's ALOT of guns and a crap-load of dead enemies.

I'm not sure what you're describing prior to Multitasking. I know the major power Tentacles and the major power Alter Limb. Are you combining these to create guns? Don't you have to spend HP to make bullets that way?