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razorjack wrote:Eh .. just give us Designs to the Macross Quarter/ (mini macross's from Macross II) and Valid reasons to use them.

The macross style ships from M2 are called Macross Cannon and fill in the same role for capital ships as the Monster fills for destroides.

The problems with the UNSpacy ships of M2 is that they are micronien ships fighting ships scaled to zentradiee's full size.

The Macross Quarter is more a SDF-1 striped down to just military parts, with parts mironized and upgraded. This happens to also scale down the ship from a zentradiee scape to micronien scale.

Treefrog wrote:1) Will the Valivarre-class SDFs make it into it? The reason why I ask is that its one of my favorite ship designs - though I have no idea if it was in any of the episodes...

Could make it in as a Zentraedi Battlecruiser for use during the early phase of The Pioneer Mission....

2) Will the pre-refit SDF-3 (which was in the Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, Issue 1 - pages 1 and 10) and the 1st Ed. Sentinels book make it in?

Well, remember, the SDF-03 seen in The Sentinels and shown in Prelude is only the exoskeleton. We actually have no idea what the actual SDF-03 looks like, but it should realistically look similar to the Tokugawa's and Tristar's.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

Treefrog wrote:1) Will the Valivarre-class SDFs make it into it? The reason why I ask is that its one of my favorite ship designs - though I have no idea if it was in any of the episodes...

Could make it in as a Zentraedi Battlecruiser for use during the early phase of The Pioneer Mission....

2) Will the pre-refit SDF-3 (which was in the Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, Issue 1 - pages 1 and 10) and the 1st Ed. Sentinels book make it in?

Well, remember, the SDF-03 seen in The Sentinels and shown in Prelude is only the exoskeleton. We actually have no idea what the actual SDF-03 looks like, but it should realistically look similar to the Tokugawa's and Tristar's.

For all intents and purposes, the exoskeleton is an integral part of the SDF-3, and it was designed that way. Also, the fact that by the time of the Prelude of the Shadow Chronicles, the SDF-3 (as it was originally designed in 2022) was still in that design. So, if the SDF-3 had an integral Tokugawa or Tristar as its core ship, then wouldn't it stand to reason that Rick and Lisa would've ditched the exoskeleton ten plus years earlier?

Treefrog wrote:So, if the SDF-3 had an integral Tokugawa or Tristar as its core ship, then wouldn't it stand to reason that Rick and Lisa would've ditched the exoskeleton ten plus years earlier?

It should have been ditched, but I think the 'real' SDF-03 simply has not been designed yet so we're stuck with the 2023 Exoskeleton and the 2043 Refit. Until such time as a new version of The Sentinels and The Pioneer Mission is fleshed out, we'll simply have to guess.

mechanimorph wrote:The trouble with that is the Preludes prequel comic shows the original SDF-3 in all it's glory. So that version is pretty much *the* SDF-3 which left earth in 2022.

From Robotech.com's Ship Size Comparison chart:

Ship Name/Type: SDF-3 Pioneer (original exoskeletal hull)
Length: 1721m

Exoskeletal hull. That means, as stated in The Sentinels, its not the actual ship but the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser. Furthermore, if it was the actual ship, why is the SDF-03 refit almost 500m shorter?

Far out there question: Prometheus and Deadales (typo's yes i know, im tired) appear in the macross book, they are technically a space ship since they are attached to the SDF-1.

In Ep.3 "Space Fold" we do see similiar class vessels flying in space with the SDF-1. They are in the shots when Breetai's Fleet fires on the SDF-1 and her fleet to prevent the ships from linking up. There are also shots also during the Fold manuver of the ships floating in the air (IIRC the sequence correctly before shots of the ships in the ocean/harbor).

So they might not be spacecraft pre-Fold, but they have sister ships/classes that are. Personally I think the ships in these classes can fly in space, but the carriers usually have to be serviced before going into space.

mhcisme wrote:

mechanimorph wrote:

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:
Exoskeletal hull. That means, as stated in The Sentinels, its not the actual ship but the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser. Furthermore, if it was the actual ship, why is the SDF-03 refit almost 500m shorter?

Hey you might be right. I just doubt it.

I just always thought the new SDF3 was shorter because the syncro cannons where smaller than the old fusion cannons.

The reason for the refit of the SDF-3, was that it pretty much was close to being scrapped....

The Sentinels offered to rebuild the ship, and because of this rebuild, its shorter.

Well, well, Santa has granted of all yer wishes .... for all UEDF Armada glory, head on to:

UNITED EARTH FORCES FLEET (2014 - 2031AD)

Hope y'all like 'em! So Gideon, the precious SCA linearts are also available there, so you can used as reference for the Starship book!

I have a question. In The Macross era episode 'Force of Arms', we see the hulls split on the Zentraedi warships and use their version of the SDF-1's main gun. This weapon has been omitted from the Macross Sourcebook in the flagship and destroyer writeups. I have the old version of the books, so I was wondering what made you remove a weapon system that was visually in the episode?

Drake the Archr

that was a monitor style ship let me see if the page with the line art is still up

edit cant find the sight back but I think this is the ship your talking about

http://www.xs4all.nl/~ptn/Naval/zen_Monitor.html

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

mechanimorph wrote:The trouble with that is the Preludes prequel comic shows the original SDF-3 in all it's glory. So that version is pretty much *the* SDF-3 which left earth in 2022.

From Robotech.com's Ship Size Comparison chart:

Ship Name/Type: SDF-3 Pioneer (original exoskeletal hull)
Length: 1721m

Exoskeletal hull. That means, as stated in The Sentinels, its not the actual ship but the exoskeleton of a Zentraedi Battlecruiser. Furthermore, if it was the actual ship, why is the SDF-03 refit almost 500m shorter?

There might be a Macross quarter hiding underneath the camouflaging hull for all we know.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:There might be a Macross quarter hiding underneath the camouflaging hull for all we know.

Hehe, according to The Sentinels scripts, there is at least one Ikazuchi hidden within the hull.

Well I am excited for this book. I hope it has some of the support crafts and even the stuff they only hint at in the shadow chronicles, such as the colony ships.

From the intro of the Masters book, the Big Book of Spaceships might turn into TWO Big Book of Spaceships. So giddy.

Gideon wrote:

tobefrnk wrote:From the intro of the Masters book, the Big Book of Spaceships might turn into TWO Big Book of Spaceships. So giddy.

Yeah. Honestly, it'll probably have to be the "Big Damn Book of Good Guy Spaceships" and the "Big Damn Book of Bad Guy Spaceships". There're a lot of ships in Robotech.

and thats not counting the art errors easter eggs fan service and artist being cute.

You're all up on talking about ships and that's really cool, Gideon, but...

Is there going to be something in a future sourcebook to cover for NPC neglect? A lot were left on the cutting room floor for Macross, NONE were included in the Masters book... Some people want a frame of reference to compare things to, seriously. And when there are major chars not statted... well, a sourcebook that includes NPC stats (and more stuff for each era perhaps) is well and truly in order.

Well there is a book that will eventually make it out that will have those ships in it. We just have to be patient and it'll arrive for us.

There is nothing anywhere that says you can't refit them for your own game. I'm planning on making sure mine are equipped like WW2 ships.

Aramanthus wrote:There is nothing anywhere that says you can't refit them for your own game. I'm planning on making sure mine are equipped like WW2 ships.

Ah, you mean how they kept increasing AAA mounts, even when the ships were badly overloaded, figuring it was better to risk swamping/sinking in bad weather than being hit by kamikazes?

Some of those ships weren't overloaded. At least not our Battleships.

I want to have the visual effects of the new startrek for my ship combat. Dodging below the wreckage of the remains of my friends as i manouver around and target a bunch of guns and missiles at the enemy with my battle ships and destroyer classes and have my carriers in the back drop with its defensive destroyers sending support fighters in from the distance and acting the flag ship roll. Though I am not saying it could not manouver about as needed.

Aramanthus wrote:Some of those ships weren't overloaded. At least not our Battleships.

True. Nothing like 49 Oerlikons & 20 quad Bofors to ruin someone's day.

Or a weapon from SciFi to carry that same operation.

I am just not impressed with the low number of point defense turrets on the UEEF warships in the TSC book and hope they receive more. I think the number of defense guns seen on the Battlestar Galactica is what we should be seeing.

For example the Garfish has only 8 point defense lasers along the dorsal side (top of the ship). It should have another eight point defense lasers on the port and starboard sides. A few more on sides and ventral side (bottom) of the modular hanger bay might help as well.

The Ikazuchi is even more lacking in the point defense department, well it’s downright pathetic.

But yet an ARMD carrier has a total of 48 point defense lasers, and 6 missile launchers. This is still lower then what I think the ship should have, but an old ARMD taken out of mothballs has a better chance of defending itself from kamikaze Invid attacks then either the Garfish or Ikazuchi.

Dracurian wrote:
You want your spaceship enigineering decks to look like a 1950's milk factory!?

I do not care what the engine rooms look like if they can make sense of its design. After all a friend of mine told me the reactor on board the USS lincoln is basicly a big box with some tubes flowing in and out.

I want to see the ship in combat more like the Enterprise in the New Startrek movie, were thier defensice cannons poped out of the outer hull and began shooting anything that got to close including the enemy torpedos.

I want three dimensional fighting fighting in space, which makes me agree with Jedi078 on his thoughts about more defensive weapons, it makes sense for the ships to be able to protect themselves from smaller craft. Especially when the enemy is known as a swarming attacker.

I was looking through the Masters book and realized the Tristar has less then 1/10 the MDC of the Masters Quiltra-Draenitzs, a ship of roughly the same size. I, and others, have brought up before the vast differences in weapon range, I didn’t realize the armor of earth ships was so much thinner to. I don’t expect them to rival the big Zent ships, but come on.

Robroy wrote:I was looking through the Masters book and realized the Tristar has less then 1/10 the MDC of the Masters Quiltra-Draenitzs, a ship of roughly the same size. I, and others, have brought up before the vast differences in weapon range, I didn’t realize the armor of earth ships was so much thinner to. I don’t expect them to rival the big Zent ships, but come on.

Yea, there is that too. There is NO WAY a Tristar has less armour plating than that of an Ikazuchi. Consider that we see more than one Ikazuchi being destroyed by Invid ramming them. By contrast, the UES Tristar in The Hunters take hits from multiple heavy particle beams fired by Tirolian Bioroid Corvettes (whose beam cannons cut through the armour of the Battlecruiser like a hot knife through butter) and Heavy Cruisers. At the very least the armour should be better by a factor of 10 than what is currently published. Realistically, the Tristar's (which are purpose-built warships, unlike the converted landing ship Ikazuchi) should have double the armour rating of an Ikazuchi.

I don’t know about double that of the Ikazuchi. But it is supposed to battle Zent ships. I think multiplying the MDC by 3 would be a good fix. That would put it close to the SDF-1.

Yeaaaahhh!!!!! spaceships finallly!!! (sorry Iknow you guys at palladium are busy) My concerns amidst my joy are the damage ratings and weapons ranges, I (personally) feel that we need tougher ships and their engagement ranges should be greater. As most of the ships are using energy weapons their ranges should be measured in AU's not in mere meters or km's. I also believe that the sublight speeds should be faster. Also they (the ref) need a better drop shuttle than the horizon-t, better armor, maybe some computer controlled pinpoint barriers, and some serious defensive weaponry. Thanks for hearing my rant, I now leave the effort of creation to the masters.

Hey guys and girls what is this ship?
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/b ... arrier.jpg

IM guessing its the Ikazuchi-class Carrier without the Synchro-cannons because we see the normal looking Ikazucki using Synchros in both the reg series and Shadow Chronicles (This diffrent one is seen only once in ep Dark Final). IM hoping both will be in the game and that it will have the Mega Laser I love from RoboTech II.

I kinda wish that The REF Navy would getting its own core book besides the Marines, I dont understand why the Navy doesnt have the ability to use Destroids. I could see the Navy have highly specialized S.E.A.L. like Mecha teams that do missions that are not conventonal, or even utiliy and defensive jobs.

RiverJack wrote:Hey guys and girls what is this ship?
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/b ... arrier.jpg

IM guessing its the Ikazuchi-class Carrier without the Synchro-cannons because we see the normal looking Ikazucki using Synchros in both the reg series and Shadow Chronicles (This diffrent one is seen only once in ep Dark Final). IM hoping both will be in the game and that it will have the Mega Laser I love from RoboTech II.

I kinda wish that The REF Navy would getting its own core book besides the Marines, I dont understand why the Navy doesnt have the ability to use Destroids. I could see the Navy have highly specialized S.E.A.L. like Mecha teams that do missions that are not conventonal, or even utiliy and defensive jobs.

I'd agree, it looks like an Ikazuchi w/a Neutron-S missile on the bow.

RiverJack wrote:I kinda wish that The REF Navy would getting its own core book besides the Marines, I dont understand why the Navy doesnt have the ability to use Destroids. I could see the Navy have highly specialized S.E.A.L. like Mecha teams that do missions that are not conventonal, or even utiliy and defensive jobs.

I am sure it is coming. HOwever the seals would more then likely have fast attack craft that would be more manuverable.

Rabid Southern Cross Fan wrote:

Robroy wrote:I was looking through the Masters book and realized the Tristar has less then 1/10 the MDC of the Masters Quiltra-Draenitzs, a ship of roughly the same size. I, and others, have brought up before the vast differences in weapon range, I didn’t realize the armor of earth ships was so much thinner to. I don’t expect them to rival the big Zent ships, but come on.

Yea, there is that too. There is NO WAY a Tristar has less armour plating than that of an Ikazuchi. Consider that we see more than one Ikazuchi being destroyed by Invid ramming them. By contrast, the UES Tristar in The Hunters take hits from multiple heavy particle beams fired by Tirolian Bioroid Corvettes (whose beam cannons cut through the armour of the Battlecruiser like a hot knife through butter) and Heavy Cruisers. At the very least the armour should be better by a factor of 10 than what is currently published. Realistically, the Tristar's (which are purpose-built warships, unlike the converted landing ship Ikazuchi) should have double the armour rating of an Ikazuchi.

i'll second this, though with the caveat that the Tristar is probably a generation older than the ikazuchi's, so it shouldn't be too much higher. call it 1.5x maybe?
we know the expeditionary forces were using ASC looking designs in the late 2010's, (the masters destroy a earth fleet during the macross segment, and the footage is of shattered SC designs), which pegs those designs as having a pretty long service life. and making them earlier examples of terran shipbuilding. while we don't know when the ikazuchi's were first designed, it's certainly at least a decade or two later, probably more towards the end of the SC period of the show. this would allow for those landingships to carry firepower and armor a bit closer to the ships of the line from the earlier generation...

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

RiverJack wrote:I kinda wish that The REF Navy would getting its own core book besides the Marines, I dont understand why the Navy doesnt have the ability to use Destroids. I could see the Navy have highly specialized S.E.A.L. like Mecha teams that do missions that are not conventonal, or even utility and defensive jobs.

I am sure it is coming. HOwever the seals would more then likely have fast attack craft that would be more manuverable.

What I ment was that the Naval Destroid Pilots would fight unconventionally compared to the Jobs and tactics Marine and Army Destroid Pilots would employ. For example, deep infiltration, Long Prob, Assainations, sabotages of Sea and Space ships, Deep Sea floor Kombat, mobile ship Artiliary for antiship, mecha, and Space/Air craft, The list goes own. All of these this are things that my group has to do because there Naval Destroid in an on going giant campaign that Iv been playing for 12 years.

RiverJack wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

RiverJack wrote:I kinda wish that The REF Navy would getting its own core book besides the Marines, I dont understand why the Navy doesnt have the ability to use Destroids. I could see the Navy have highly specialized S.E.A.L. like Mecha teams that do missions that are not conventonal, or even utility and defensive jobs.

I am sure it is coming. HOwever the seals would more then likely have fast attack craft that would be more manuverable.

What I ment was that the Naval Destroid Pilots would fight unconventionally compared to the Jobs and tactics Marine and Army Destroid Pilots would employ. For example, deep infiltration, Long Prob, Assainations, sabotages of Sea and Space ships, Deep Sea floor Kombat, mobile ship Artiliary for antiship, mecha, and Space/Air craft, The list goes own. All of these this are things that my group has to do because there Naval Destroid in an on going giant campaign that Iv been playing for 12 years.

I forgot to mention that my team uses Raidar Xs, with the Lasers, and Mac II with Lasers because of the ability to stay out in the field much much longer, and cause lots of Damage without worrying about ammo consumption. And if you use my optional rules for laser weapons in this form (hears the link)
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105989
you will start a real light show

I just don't see them using the slow mecha in the special forces teams. I would think alpha and beta for insertion and extraction, and have the Beta carrying the power armor or cyclone members in its bomb bays. This way you have heavy support and fast moble units that can use stealth to get into areas where it is nessary. SLow destroids are not going to be the answer to the special forces needs, for any branch.

I am not opposed to the special modifications for a mecha but I generally do not alter them to much, and though the laser concept is a cool idea I still do not think it will matter for the special forces teams.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:I just don't see them using the slow mecha in the special forces teams. I would think alpha and beta for insertion and extraction, and have the Beta carrying the power armor or cyclone members in its bomb bays. This way you have heavy support and fast moble units that can use stealth to get into areas where it is nessary. SLow destroids are not going to be the answer to the special forces needs, for any branch.

I am not opposed to the special modifications for a mecha but I generally do not alter them to much, and though the laser concept is a cool idea I still do not think it will matter for the special forces teams.

Well it would matter if you werent coming back to your base of operations for days maybe weeks.

RiverJack wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:I just don't see them using the slow mecha in the special forces teams. I would think alpha and beta for insertion and extraction, and have the Beta carrying the power armor or cyclone members in its bomb bays. This way you have heavy support and fast moble units that can use stealth to get into areas where it is nessary. SLow destroids are not going to be the answer to the special forces needs, for any branch.

I am not opposed to the special modifications for a mecha but I generally do not alter them to much, and though the laser concept is a cool idea I still do not think it will matter for the special forces teams.

Well it would matter if you werent coming back to your base of operations for days maybe weeks.

Actually our Special Forces go into the field for weeks at a time and usually go with limited supplies now.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

RiverJack wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:.

.

Actually our Special Forces go into the field for weeks at a time and usually go with limited supplies now.

Blame storming session! I want to blame Jo Bonner for the fact that our special forces go out with limmited supplies. . .


yes I know thoes guys like to go out with only what they can hump on there own backsides.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:

RiverJack wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:I just don't see them using the slow mecha in the special forces teams. I would think alpha and beta for insertion and extraction, and have the Beta carrying the power armor or cyclone members in its bomb bays. This way you have heavy support and fast moble units that can use stealth to get into areas where it is nessary. SLow destroids are not going to be the answer to the special forces needs, for any branch.

I am not opposed to the special modifications for a mecha but I generally do not alter them to much, and though the laser concept is a cool idea I still do not think it will matter for the special forces teams.

Well it would matter if you werent coming back to your base of operations for days maybe weeks.

Actually our Special Forces go into the field for weeks at a time and usually go with limited supplies now.

My bad my comment didnt post, like if I were special force mech pilot and I wanted to go out for a very long time to disrupt my enemys troop mech formations or what ever I would take energy weapons over phys because the payload is near infit. I learn this stuff playing Battle Tech you got to think about what your taken to a fight who your fighting, and for how long.

RiverJack wrote:My bad my comment didnt post, like if I were special force mech pilot and I wanted to go out for a very long time to disrupt my enemys troop mech formations or what ever I would take energy weapons over phys because the payload is near infit. I learn this stuff playing Battle Tech you got to think about what your taken to a fight who your fighting, and for how long.

But if you rely more on energy weapons you run out of juice faster....

The fact is even in Robotech SF troops will just most likley go in light (no mecha) and laze targets for the ships in orbit or VT's to blow away. Or maybe they sneak a SADM into an Invid hive.

jedi078 wrote:

RiverJack wrote:My bad my comment didnt post, like if I were special force mech pilot and I wanted to go out for a very long time to disrupt my enemys troop mech formations or what ever I would take energy weapons over phys because the payload is near infit. I learn this stuff playing Battle Tech you got to think about what your taken to a fight who your fighting, and for how long.

But if you rely more on energy weapons you run out of juice faster....

The fact is even in Robotech SF troops will just most likley go in light (no mecha) and laze targets for the ships in orbit or VT's to blow away. Or maybe they sneak a SADM into an Invid hive.

I think cyclones would be the common mecha assigned to the special forces of Robotech. but I see special forces as Intel gathering and laser pointers.

Lt Gargoyle wrote:I think cyclones would be the common mecha assigned to the special forces of Robotech. but I see special forces as Intel gathering and laser pointers.

It would depend on the mission since using a cyclone will give your postion away to the Invid, and for the nasty GM's out there who like the Masters and Zentradi to have protoculture sensors.

jedi078 wrote:

Lt Gargoyle wrote:I think cyclones would be the common mecha assigned to the special forces of Robotech. but I see special forces as Intel gathering and laser pointers.

It would depend on the mission since using a cyclone will give your postion away to the Invid, and for the nasty GM's out there who like the Masters and Zentradi to have protoculture sensors.

I can understand this. Missions where they may need to have stealth no mecha or P-cell powered mecha.

I like the idea of giving the protoculture sensor to the master and their puppets the Zentraedi.

Give the Invid far BETTER protoculture senses/sensors than the Zentraedi or Tirolians...that would make sense...

taalismn wrote:Give the Invid far BETTER protoculture senses/sensors than the Zentraedi or Tirolians...that would make sense...

Who says the Robotech Masters didn't invent the Protoculture sensor in the first place? Or reverse engineered the ones pulled from Invid mecha?

Perhaps the masters have good protoculture sensors, but only the Invid appear to have a protocultre targeting systems (and perhaps also a protoculture imaging system).

True, but the Zentraedi and then later the master had to have something to track the SDF-1 with. And since folding takes you way out there I imagine that to be a little harder to track a ship without some type of protocuture sensors.

Yep, and the ships the Zent and Masters have seem to be able to detect it as I am remembering dialog from the show. As for their mecha, I think only the command/scout mecha seem to have any such capability.

The Invid seem to be the only ones with the targeting/vision style system and they are the only ones to have it in every mecha. Then again that could be partially biological for them

Don't forget that the UEEF have alternate power systems for the Cyclone, Alpha and Beta. They use a Battery and Fusion Power plants also. This gives them a limited range of non-protoculture use.

My take on the Fusion Generators is that they need time to 'Cool'. I use a 1:1 ratio of in use to Cool. But I can easily see a 1:.25 ratio. And as for the Cyclone, the battery pack can be charged fairly quickly depending on how nice the GM is.