Forums of the Megaverse®

Since I've come back to these forums after a decade hiatus, I've heard about lots of rules changes from RUE and, so far, every single one of them sounds like a step backwards.

Examples:
-- GI Joe rule (all armor has Lifeward enchantment automatically built into it)
-- called shots take 2 actions
-- omission from magic rules that no longer defines how to draw PPE from folks unawares who don't see you as a threat.

Were there any good changes made? Or are they all bad?

--flatline

The magic casting rules, specifically defining how long it takes to cast spells is the only improvement I can think of off hand.

Modern weapon proficiencies are treated more like ancient in that they all have their own leveling up Burst bonuses start out lower but have the potential to be higher than previously done. Previous burst damage rules are no longer applicable to energy weapons and only found under wp heavy weapons (which is only for heavy sdc weapons).

OCC's were given pretty good update for the most part. World info was expanded. There were some new OCC's as well that allow for NON CS based un-enhanced soldiers. Proper rules for Borgs andf how much they can put in each limb etc. Rules for stats over 30. Rules for below average stats. HTH officially starts you at 4 attacks per melee. Rules for the different strength levels are now in it so no digging thru other books. New Rifts specific dragons as well as a HTH skill for dragons. Robot combat skills are now more specific to the class, are changed somewhat in how many attacks you get and bonuses for ranged combat. Rules for surviving MD attacks. A -10/-5 rule that makes way more sense than previous.

Overall it was an improvement but there are some things that are not as good as they previously done.

jaymz wrote:Modern weapon proficiencies are treated more like ancient in that they all have their own leveling up Burst bonuses start out lower but have the potential to be higher than previously done. Previous burst damage rules are no longer applicable to energy weapons and only found under wp heavy weapons (which is only for heavy sdc weapons).

OCC's were given pretty good update for the most part. World info was expanded. There were some new OCC's as well that allow for NON CS based un-enhanced soldiers. Proper rules for Borgs andf how much they can put in each limb etc. Rules for stats over 30. Rules for below average stats. HTH officially starts you at 4 attacks per melee. Rules for the different strength levels are now in it so no digging thru other books. New Rifts specific dragons as well as a HTH skill for dragons. Robot combat skills are now more specific to the class, are changed somewhat in how many attacks you get and bonuses for ranged combat. Rules for surviving MD attacks. A -10/-5 rule that makes way more sense than previous.

Overall it was an improvement but there are some things that are not as good as they previously done.

Thank you for that excellent summary!

Maybe it is worth picking up RUE.

--flatline

flatline wrote:

jaymz wrote:Modern weapon proficiencies are treated more like ancient in that they all have their own leveling up Burst bonuses start out lower but have the potential to be higher than previously done. Previous burst damage rules are no longer applicable to energy weapons and only found under wp heavy weapons (which is only for heavy sdc weapons).

OCC's were given pretty good update for the most part. World info was expanded. There were some new OCC's as well that allow for NON CS based un-enhanced soldiers. Proper rules for Borgs andf how much they can put in each limb etc. Rules for stats over 30. Rules for below average stats. HTH officially starts you at 4 attacks per melee. Rules for the different strength levels are now in it so no digging thru other books. New Rifts specific dragons as well as a HTH skill for dragons. Robot combat skills are now more specific to the class, are changed somewhat in how many attacks you get and bonuses for ranged combat. Rules for surviving MD attacks. A -10/-5 rule that makes way more sense than previous.

Overall it was an improvement but there are some things that are not as good as they previously done.

Thank you for that excellent summary!

Maybe it is worth picking up RUE.

--flatline

If you want, PM me and I'll give you a more in depth summary of it. I can give a breif summary of HU2 if you want too.

I strongly dislike the mages in armor rules, but that is the worse of the changes I can think of ATM.

boxee wrote:I strongly dislike the mages in armor rules, but that is the worse of the changes I can think of ATM.

Are they the rules that originally came out in FoM? Or did they get even worse?

Shouldn't matter, I've never met anyone who didn't ignore them

--flatline

Long time lurker, first post.

I got Rifts in 1990 and played it quite a bit; it sat on a shelf for a long while after that. When RUE was released, I got a copy from Amazon under the assumption that it would, indeed, be "ultimate" and anticipated running another Rifts campaign. Needless to say, I have been less than impressed with RUE compared to the original rulebook. I re-read both books completely over the past week and prefer the original book for a multitude of reasons, the primary being a sense of verisimilitude in the setting. RUE reads like you already know about the Rifts world (true for most people buying it), while the old book presents material in a "fresh" way. It's difficult for me to explicate my feelings exactly, but when I read the old book I get an excellent sense of the environment. RUE just sort of leaves me feeling flat; it's much more gamey in tone. Plus, the organization is terrible. Palladium rpgs aren't the best organized books, but every other game I have (PFRPG, TMNT, BTSN, HU) is easy enough to follow. RUE spreads relevant rules throughout the book, which is annoying. I'm not too keen on the updates to the OCCs, either. I thought they were fine as-is.

If I was going to run another game (high probability next month) I'd just use the old book and leave RUE at home.

I liked the OCC updates to original classes; addition of the new mage class (name escapes me) was cool. Definitively stating that all HTH = 4 starting actions (except Assassin, which is stated as start w/ 3).

But HATE HATE HATE layout, as well as PB dropping the info on how times of day/year affect ley lines - which affects what mages & pyschics do. Mages & armor rule. Changes to the 25 y/o language & literacy starting & per level %.

In our group, other than class-updates, we don't use the RUE. Of 7 players, only 1 "prefers" it - and that's cuz she's more of a rules lawyer than any other reason.

I did think some of the class updates were good, specifically the burster, and cyberknight. Layout was complicated, seems like a trend in palladium books recently. I really dislike random insanities and the punishment for playing augmented characters when you can just go to a different book and play something more powerful with no penalties.

I don't know how it used to work but I have personally found that the called shots and aiming costing an action and honestly the system as a whole is really good and well-balanced. Easily the best RPG system I have played in a very long time for play ability.

It could be plaid out better but in my honest opinion Flatline it is totally worth picking up if you can scrape together the cash for it. Not only does it compile a lot of their better art but once you learn to navigate it, she's a pretty reliable and study book.

Well in the end some things, most of them, were good and simply put in the main book updates that had already been printed elsewhere (like the shifter updated form or Cyberknights) and some cool innovation(Dragons have their own HTH form )
Some other were simply puzzling and annoying, like the weird update of the Vagabond OCC(nicknamed superVagabond), on one side is understandable, make it a truly balanced OCC that don't end up being cannon fodder or NPC only, but on other side well is kinda puzzling, was it really needed?
and finally others were simply unpleasant: the format that is way too unnatural and not intuitive(i hated that format in Splicer and i LOVE splicer!), the new dragon(worth of sourcebook, but in a main book you need to put the "nugget" for the games, the average, and we all know those are the classical one, Great Horned, Fire Dragon and Ice Dragon. The fact that they have not been reprinted anywhere else add to this "lack" that **** off Palladium Fans to a level I doubt Kevin understand. We are frothing here Kevin, and that silly lolcat-faced dragon you gave us DO NOT HELP!!
And of course the GI-Joe rule, that everyone just ignore(and infact many prefer going on the opposite route, making some of Megadamage to pass thorugh MDC armors, at least the non powered ones, as SDC damage)
So in the end is a 60%-/70% good
but with a 40%-30% that will surelly cause any palladium books fan an unpleasant itch where they cannot scratch...

Yes, RUE brought improvements.
Mostly just cleaning up and fixing damage done by previous books.

When I have RUE handy, I'll try to go though and make a list of the positives.

I lov e RUE..the only thing I miss from the original RIFTS book is the sample baddies in the back of the book.

Rue lacks common sense to me.
You need CWC to properly use the CS now.
The new Dragons are Lame, but we do get HtH Dragon as an Optional Rule to use.
WP Handgun replaces WP revolvers and pistols.
WP Rifles replaces the various types of normal rifle wps.
We get a super-lame wannbie "Warlock" called Elemental Fuzionists from the rifts vid-game.
All combat Cyborgs get Robotic Strength now for Free.
No random Roll Monsters. So we have less opponets by default now.

I Do Not use RUE for much if anything. I do use use the new Dragons to add to my RMB Dragons or Dragons and Gods list of dragons, etc...We need more Dragons of course. Too bad, the new ones seem more like Varient Dragons for the RMB Dragons, than truely new dragons in design or purpose.

They're not my thing but Elemental Fusionists are kind of cool.

As for cyborgs getting robot strength free... if they didn't I'd complain. It kinda only makes sense.

Akashic Soldier wrote:They're not my thing but Elemental Fusionists are kind of cool.

As for cyborgs getting robot strength free... if they didn't I'd complain. It kinda only makes sense.

See, I liked Robotic Strength be an Option to buy actually. Warlords of Russia offered us the option, where before it was just cybernetic ps only, except for rare cyborg models.

TechnoGothic wrote:

Akashic Soldier wrote:They're not my thing but Elemental Fusionists are kind of cool.

As for cyborgs getting robot strength free... if they didn't I'd complain. It kinda only makes sense.

See, I liked Robotic Strength be an Option to buy actually. Warlords of Russia offered us the option, where before it was just cybernetic ps only, except for rare cyborg models.

Well yes, albeit in some way it make sense. The Combat Cyborg fit in description Shocktroopers Borgs, in that they are HUGE and yes, amke sense that they got Robotic PS considering they are towering robots with human brain, in the end. What disappoint me is that it does not clear what about the cyborgs model printed before(my headcanon/thumbrule/theory is that human sized FCB do get only cybernetic/augmented strength, while those of bigger size got robotic PS). But perhaps you are right and would hav ebeen better leave it as an option, rather than automatic(but i can understand the decision. After all it was obvious almost everyone would took the Robotic PS option anyway).

Dont forget RUE more clearly defines auto dodge bonuses and breaks the bonuses away from normal dodge across the board. It even clarifies PP gives bonuses to auto dodge as well as normal dodge.

Look at the old H2H Commando vs the RUE version. Its more specific and defined. Same as the bonuses for Cyber Knight, Juicer, and Crazy OCCs.

I think cyborgs should get robotic strength, they are bionic not cyber. It seems like they threw out the cybernetics overall. I see this as a great shame. They could have done soooooo many cool things with cybernetics. To clearify- Bionics = Robotic Strength. Cybernetic = Not Robotic Strength.
I also think they should have given alot more cybernetics to classes like city rat, and cyber doctor. Not bionics to start with cybernetics to start with. I see cybernetics like shadowgunk and cyberpop. Spelling changed to pervent deletion. So much potential so little return.
Hope people can understand what I am talking about here.

Boxee

boxee wrote:I think cyborgs should get robotic strength, they are bionic not cyber. It seems like they threw out the cybernetics overall. I see this as a great shame. They could have done soooooo many cool things with cybernetics. To clearify- Bionics = Robotic Strength. Cybernetic = Not Robotic Strength.
I also think they should have given alot more cybernetics to classes like city rat, and cyber doctor. Not bionics to start with cybernetics to start with. I see cybernetics like shadowgunk and cyberpop. Spelling changed to pervent deletion. So much potential so little return.
Hope people can understand what I am talking about here.

Boxee

True to be told Cybernetic/Augmented, aswell as robotic, has been spread beyond robots and cyborgs, to some other non.human races.