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Your GM is correct by the books, SDC is a 'shield' that keeps your HP from getting hurt while it exists. Generally when you're out of SDC you're considered pretty near death, as it not only starts much lower, but it also advances much more slowly. This also makes those called shots / death blows very useful to attackers, as it can end fights almost instantly. A single hit with a sword can put someone into 'emergency mode', instantly losing a quarter of their HP (or more), since the average human has only 13~ HP out the gates, and even at 10th level, you're only looking at 40-50 HP, which is not that much, considering at that point 10 should be pretty average for incoming attack damaging (or 20-30 if gearing is allowed to progress to rune items, really depends on GM / play group at that point since 10th level is pretty high).

Also it cannot be unbalanced, because that rule works for enemies too, they get the same durability, it just means fights go much longer. Just keep in mind, what else would you expect a characters SDC to even do, if not stop damage?

kaizenmc wrote:I am new to GM - ing, but have been a player for a while.

The GM that ran our games had damage coming from SDC first, then HP - Regardless of attack (unless it was something like called shot to head / neck)

But that doesn't make sense to me. It seems to me that all attacks, unless they are with a stick or something, should go off of HP. It that's the case, your character with HP: 27 and SDC: of 42 can take up to 10+ (depending on rolls) 1D6 arrows before dying. Now, I know in the game we are the "heroes" and "above normal man" but that seems unbalanced to me.

I have looked through the core rule book and cannot find any clarification on this.

IMO anything slashing or piercing should go straight to HP. Anything that would "Club" would first go to SDC.

I'm looking for thoughts / clarifications on this before I start running my own campaigns. Thank you in advance!

I know what you mean, S.D.C. is kind of weird. Before S.D.C. was in PFRPG combat was certainly more dangerous to characters. If there is some cognitive dissonance, thought, consider just adding a character’s S.D.C. to the character’s Hit Points and not have to worry about it.

Personally I am glad SDC was introduced. Some ordinary weapons do as much as 3d6 damage and PCs with 30+ HPS wasn't really cutting it. To heck with realism. This is fantasy and I dont want my PC to die too easily. Even with SDC the game is pretty deadly.

Well, Kaizenmc, I am with you. I feel like being stabbed with a sword or shot with an arrow is a really dangerous and should be avoided. Armor has SDC, that's there to protect you. SDC was originally for inanimate objects in 1st Ed and for some reason was applied to the characters in later games. I never used SDC. You are correct in how it's mentioned in the book. It's just extra HP the way it's written, almost like they started with Natasha's idea and worked backwards. In the games we played, we just never used it. If you want your character to stay alive, be smart about the fights you pick. I recommend just scrapping the SDC for all living beings and keeping it with the original spirit. It makes things really gritty.

Somewhere I remember seeing a picture of an ogre with arrows all over him, even one in his nose and there was a caption about him still having 30 HP. I looked for it but I don't know where it is.

-Vek
"If you get into a fair fight, that's your fault."

Well I agree with the SDC rule, AR and the critical strk. I've never really had a problem, with the system not working.. its just luck of the dice..

I never had issues with it as written either. It's deadly enough as is. Being too deadly makes games just no fun to play. Ever play Dead Reign? IMO

kaizenmc wrote:I am new to GM - ing, but have been a player for a while.

The GM that ran our games had damage coming from SDC first, then HP - Regardless of attack (unless it was something like called shot to head / neck)

But that doesn't make sense to me. It seems to me that all attacks, unless they are with a stick or something, should go off of HP. It that's the case, your character with HP: 27 and SDC: of 42 can take up to 10+ (depending on rolls) 1D6 arrows before dying. Now, I know in the game we are the "heroes" and "above normal man" but that seems unbalanced to me.

I have looked through the core rule book and cannot find any clarification on this.

IMO anything slashing or piercing should go straight to HP. Anything that would "Club" would first go to SDC.

I'm looking for thoughts / clarifications on this before I start running my own campaigns. Thank you in advance!

There is method in your thinking. Ive thought the same.

The other posts have clarified though. Most things unless stated, damage SDC first. SDC is supposed to identify the "flesh wound" and hit points the "mortal wounds" (my own description there) so you know when its time to run!

There is one other thing that most people don't seem to consider very often when it comes to the loads of SDC some characters can end up with and that's the Blood Loss rules in combat... the ones where you take one point of damage for every wound you've suffered, every round you don't treat said wounds, until either A> the wound gets treated or B> you drop dead from blood loss. I know it can slow a fight down calculating this, but it really whittles down SDC pretty quick.

JuliusCreed wrote:There is one other thing that most people don't seem to consider very often when it comes to the loads of SDC some characters can end up with and that's the Blood Loss rules in combat... the ones where you take one point of damage for every wound you've suffered, every round you don't treat said wounds, until either A> the wound gets treated or B> you drop dead from blood loss. I know it can slow a fight down calculating this, but it really whittles down SDC pretty quick.

This. Unless we're playing fast and loose, I always use the blood loss rules. Makes a player think about what they're doing in combat..

We always use blood loss (PFRPG, not RUE rules).

So just take damage off your HP then?

Even if none of the other players do it, if it's really fun for you, just let piercing weapons bypass your own characters SDC.

I'm guessing it wont be fun enough that you'll do that.

Noon wrote:So just take damage off your HP then?

Even if none of the other players do it, if it's really fun for you, just let piercing weapons bypass your own characters SDC.

I'm guessing it wont be fun enough that you'll do that.

Nobody said to do this.. It's damage to the SDC first, but also 1 HP per wound per melee to represent blood loss...